[HitsterParticipant]

 Don’t know if I’ve asked this before, how do others think that an all star level combo of a scoring SG or SF works with an elite pass first PG. I’ve never really decided if they do work better as a duo or if an elite scoring SG or SF is better teamed with an elite big?

An elite big obviously benefits from having a top creative PG to give him openings and can work well with a top SG/SF. 

LeBron or Kobe will do a lot of ball carrying how would their oncourt dynamics have been effected in they had been teamed with say a CP3 or peak Nash/Kidd? Would their have been issues about who carried the ball or would the match up have been a nightmare to defend against and really spread the floor?

Someone like Ray Allen at his peak would have been even more devestating with a top creative PG as he played so brilliantly off the ball and could find spaces to shoot his threes but how do you see a LBJ, Melo,Kobe etc at their peak with a top creative PG?

 

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 A creative point guard helps get shots for people who can’t create for themselves. For someone like Ray Allen, that would be perfect. For someone like Kobe or LBJ, a creative PG would take the ball out of their hands. Is that really something you want to do? Many of these elite wings are effective because they need the ball in hand to create offence. If you take the ball away from them would they be as effective? Not saying it wouldn’t work, but they would need a special chemistry between them to be effective.

[ballislyfe25Participant]

 Players such as LeBron James and Kobe Bryant definitely could have benefitted from playing with a "creative" point guard. Honestly, I believe just about any of the upper-level point guards would fit extremely well with Kobe and LeBron, even though both Kobe and LeBron and the point guards always have the ball in their hands.

As was previously mentioned, Steven Nash and Jason Kidd in their respective primes could have fit nicely with Kobe and LeBron. Nash’s spot up shooting ability and quickness and ballhandling would have allowed him to play off the ball effectively during times in which the aforementioned wing players are running the show. The same for Jason Kidd, despite being a less effective shooter than Nash over their respective careers. Kidd had elite size for the position and his defensive ability and basketball IQ would allow him to mesh well with Kobe and LeBron. Lakers fans will forever love Derek Fisher (and rightfully so, the guy had a long career due to his ability to mesh with elite players and make clutch plays) but imagine replacing him with Kidd?

Kobe and LeBron have played with mostly average to below average point guards throughout their individual careers. In my opinion, there is no doubt that they could mesh very well with any of the top point guards that have been in the league at the same time as them. I really believe that LeBron and Kyrie are going to fit so well together, especially with Kevin Love around. One guy who could have been an awkward fit with these guys is Rajon Rondo, solely due to the fact that he has always the main ballhandler and "quarterback" of the offense in Boston, even during the Big Three era. Defensively, the fit would be fantastic. 

In summation, all-time greats such as Kobe and LeBron and elite wing players should be able to mesh with any type of "creative" or high-level point guard. I believe that sharing full-time ballhandling duties would benefit everybody involved and allow the point guard and wing players to show off their versatility. Like Shaq gets paid to say in the new NBA 2K15 trailer, "What if?"

 

[ballislyfe25Participant]

 Players such as LeBron James and Kobe Bryant definitely could have benefitted from playing with a "creative" point guard. Honestly, I believe just about any of the upper-level point guards would fit extremely well with Kobe and LeBron, even though both Kobe and LeBron and the point guards always have the ball in their hands.

As was previously mentioned, Steven Nash and Jason Kidd in their respective primes could have fit nicely with Kobe and LeBron. Nash’s spot up shooting ability and quickness and ballhandling would have allowed him to play off the ball effectively during times in which the aforementioned wing players are running the show. The same for Jason Kidd, despite being a less effective shooter than Nash over their respective careers. Kidd had elite size for the position and his defensive ability and basketball IQ would allow him to mesh well with Kobe and LeBron. Lakers fans will forever love Derek Fisher (and rightfully so, the guy had a long career due to his ability to mesh with elite players and make clutch plays) but imagine replacing him with Kidd?

Kobe and LeBron have played with mostly average to below average point guards throughout their individual careers. In my opinion, there is no doubt that they could mesh very well with any of the top point guards that have been in the league at the same time as them. I really believe that LeBron and Kyrie are going to fit so well together, especially with Kevin Love around. One guy who could have been an awkward fit with these guys is Rajon Rondo, solely due to the fact that he has always the main ballhandler and "quarterback" of the offense in Boston, even during the Big Three era. Defensively, the fit would be fantastic. 

In summation, all-time greats such as Kobe and LeBron and elite wing players should be able to mesh with any type of "creative" or high-level point guard. I believe that sharing full-time ballhandling duties would benefit everybody involved and allow the point guard and wing players to show off their versatility. Like Shaq gets paid to say in the new NBA 2K15 trailer, "What if?"

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 A creative point guard helps get shots for people who can’t create for themselves. For someone like Ray Allen, that would be perfect. For someone like Kobe or LBJ, a creative PG would take the ball out of their hands. Is that really something you want to do? Many of these elite wings are effective because they need the ball in hand to create offence. If you take the ball away from them would they be as effective? Not saying it wouldn’t work, but they would need a special chemistry between them to be effective.

[casey38rayParticipant]

 I fell like Paul George will be a better player if he had an elite passing point guard to play with. Like pairing him with Rajon Rondo will be devastating for the league. Paul George can’t consistently create his own shot and having Rajon Rondo will help speed up his development. 

[Ty BenjaminsParticipant]

Man! Exact same thing i always say. Rondo and PG a be DEADLY. A court vision specialist like Rondo a allow PG to consistently run off screens for spot ups and go for the backdoor lobs which he is brilliant at

[Ty BenjaminsParticipant]

Man! Exact same thing i always say. Rondo and PG a be DEADLY. A court vision specialist like Rondo a allow PG to consistently run off screens for spot ups and go for the backdoor lobs which he is brilliant at

[Ty BenjaminsParticipant]

Man! Exact same thing i always say. Rondo and PG a be DEADLY. A court vision specialist like Rondo a allow PG to consistently run off screens for spot ups and go for the backdoor lobs which he is brilliant at

[Ty BenjaminsParticipant]

Man! Exact same thing i always say. Rondo and PG a be DEADLY. A court vision specialist like Rondo a allow PG to consistently run off screens for spot ups and go for the backdoor lobs which he is brilliant at

[casey38rayParticipant]

 I fell like Paul George will be a better player if he had an elite passing point guard to play with. Like pairing him with Rajon Rondo will be devastating for the league. Paul George can’t consistently create his own shot and having Rajon Rondo will help speed up his development. 

[omphalosParticipant]

 Some SGs in the Kobe mold don’t like playing with traditional point guards – the best example of this is Brandon Roy. He was happy with Steve Blake and got upset when Andre Miller came in as a traditional point guard.

I think MJ would have been great with a traditional PG, he would get the ball in his spots and make quick decisions with it – he wasm’t the sort to pound the rock, just made effective moves with decisiveness.

[omphalosParticipant]

 Some SGs in the Kobe mold don’t like playing with traditional point guards – the best example of this is Brandon Roy. He was happy with Steve Blake and got upset when Andre Miller came in as a traditional point guard.

I think MJ would have been great with a traditional PG, he would get the ball in his spots and make quick decisions with it – he wasm’t the sort to pound the rock, just made effective moves with decisiveness.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Thanks for the feedback, MJ and Kobe of course played the bulk of their careers under Phil Jackson’s triangle offence so I don’t know if that reduced the need for a pass first PG.

D-Wade fitted in well when LBJ took over ball handling for Miami so I’d think he’d have/would thrive alongside a top playmaking PG. 

Also having more than one ball carrier gives options even with a pass first elite PG, if the swingman is also a good ball carrier they can take some playmaking if the the PG is a good scorer.

We might have some interesting scenarios regarding this next season – Wiggins alongside Rubio might be interesting to watch and who does ball carrying at the Bucks under Jason Kidd.

 

 

 

[kazamParticipant]

 I’m anticipating Kidd to put the ball in Parker’s hands an awful lot, trial by fire; if he cant be a guy to make some plays they will find out quickly. 

[kazamParticipant]

 I’m anticipating Kidd to put the ball in Parker’s hands an awful lot, trial by fire; if he cant be a guy to make some plays they will find out quickly. 

[omphalosParticipant]

I feel like LaVine and Rubio will be doing the bulk of the ball-handling, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Wiggins.

[omphalosParticipant]

I feel like LaVine and Rubio will be doing the bulk of the ball-handling, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Wiggins.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Thanks for the feedback, MJ and Kobe of course played the bulk of their careers under Phil Jackson’s triangle offence so I don’t know if that reduced the need for a pass first PG.

D-Wade fitted in well when LBJ took over ball handling for Miami so I’d think he’d have/would thrive alongside a top playmaking PG. 

Also having more than one ball carrier gives options even with a pass first elite PG, if the swingman is also a good ball carrier they can take some playmaking if the the PG is a good scorer.

We might have some interesting scenarios regarding this next season – Wiggins alongside Rubio might be interesting to watch and who does ball carrying at the Bucks under Jason Kidd.

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

Tim Hardaway was a 9-10 apg player with GSW who co-existed with Chris Mullen (25.6 ppg) for the 91-92 Warriors, who won 50 games.

The year before Hardaway functioned with two 20 ppg scorers in Mullen (25.7 ppg) and Mich Richmond (23.9 ppg).

Mookie Blaylock played a large portion of his career beside Nique Wilkins. People forget Blaylock was a 8-9 apg player during his prime years and a very good guy setting up others. 

Clyde Drexler averaged 27 ppg next to Terry Porter’s 10.1 apg in 87-88, and the two had great success together including a finals appearance in 91-92.

Mark Jackson played a large portion of his career next to Reggie Miller

More recently, Jason Kidd played next to both Vince Carter (23-26 ppg in those years), in NJ, and Dirk in Dallas. 

[JoeWolf1]

Tim Hardaway was a 9-10 apg player with GSW who co-existed with Chris Mullen (25.6 ppg) for the 91-92 Warriors, who won 50 games.

The year before Hardaway functioned with two 20 ppg scorers in Mullen (25.7 ppg) and Mich Richmond (23.9 ppg).

Mookie Blaylock played a large portion of his career beside Nique Wilkins. People forget Blaylock was a 8-9 apg player during his prime years and a very good guy setting up others. 

Clyde Drexler averaged 27 ppg next to Terry Porter’s 10.1 apg in 87-88, and the two had great success together including a finals appearance in 91-92.

Mark Jackson played a large portion of his career next to Reggie Miller

More recently, Jason Kidd played next to both Vince Carter (23-26 ppg in those years), in NJ, and Dirk in Dallas. 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I guess this could count: Former Finals MVP and all-around bad @$$ Tony Parker with reigning Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard.  TP is a primary scorer but he is a team guy first who plays within a system and makes the engine hum.  

I also can’t wait for the Rubio-Wiggins pairing.  Looks like a GREAT fit.  Rubio isn’t really a shooter/scorer and Wiggins isn’t known for being a ball handling wiz.  Hopefully they complement each other well and put up some great highlights.  The Minny T Wiggins is at the top of the list of teams I want to see next season.

Not sure Jordan needed a traditional point guard.  MJ liked to dominate the ball and dominate his opponents. Any way, Scottie Pippen was the TRUE point guard on that team.  He would have needed a guy to play off the ball and make shots (BJ Armstrong, John Paxson).  Interestingly enough, his best seasons as far as wins went were with Ron Harper at point.  A solid all around 6’6 guard but not to be confused with Magic Johnson.

For the record, Magic could have played with ANYBODY.  

There aren’t too many "pass first" guys in league history.

Magic would be one, then Stockton with Jason Kidd being a mixture of both in some ways.  Now Ricky Rubio is in that category.

Rubio-Wiggins looks ideal on paper.  Let’s see how it works out.  Doesn’t have to be as good as the mythical (very) brief pairing of Pistol Pete and Dr. J., but then again, we can only hope…

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I guess this could count: Former Finals MVP and all-around bad @$$ Tony Parker with reigning Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard.  TP is a primary scorer but he is a team guy first who plays within a system and makes the engine hum.  

I also can’t wait for the Rubio-Wiggins pairing.  Looks like a GREAT fit.  Rubio isn’t really a shooter/scorer and Wiggins isn’t known for being a ball handling wiz.  Hopefully they complement each other well and put up some great highlights.  The Minny T Wiggins is at the top of the list of teams I want to see next season.

Not sure Jordan needed a traditional point guard.  MJ liked to dominate the ball and dominate his opponents. Any way, Scottie Pippen was the TRUE point guard on that team.  He would have needed a guy to play off the ball and make shots (BJ Armstrong, John Paxson).  Interestingly enough, his best seasons as far as wins went were with Ron Harper at point.  A solid all around 6’6 guard but not to be confused with Magic Johnson.

For the record, Magic could have played with ANYBODY.  

There aren’t too many "pass first" guys in league history.

Magic would be one, then Stockton with Jason Kidd being a mixture of both in some ways.  Now Ricky Rubio is in that category.

Rubio-Wiggins looks ideal on paper.  Let’s see how it works out.  Doesn’t have to be as good as the mythical (very) brief pairing of Pistol Pete and Dr. J., but then again, we can only hope…

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Kidd and Carter are a great example provided by Joe Wolf, Carter was an elite scorer at Toronto and interestingly his scoring didn’t increase when he had Kidd creating for him but he probably became a more effective scorer.

I checked back on Grant Hill’s career as he was such an elite point forward at his peak, obviously he played alongside Steve Nash for several years at Phoenix but he had refined his game than and was post injury issues.

In 1999-2000 the Pistons had SG Jerry Stackhouse at 23.6ppg and 4.5apg, PG Lindsay Hunter 12.7ppg and 4 apg, SF Grant Hill 25.8 ppg and 5.2apg so the team had several creative players on the same roster.

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Kidd and Carter are a great example provided by Joe Wolf, Carter was an elite scorer at Toronto and interestingly his scoring didn’t increase when he had Kidd creating for him but he probably became a more effective scorer.

I checked back on Grant Hill’s career as he was such an elite point forward at his peak, obviously he played alongside Steve Nash for several years at Phoenix but he had refined his game than and was post injury issues.

In 1999-2000 the Pistons had SG Jerry Stackhouse at 23.6ppg and 4.5apg, PG Lindsay Hunter 12.7ppg and 4 apg, SF Grant Hill 25.8 ppg and 5.2apg so the team had several creative players on the same roster.

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Magic certainly bought out the best in James Worthy but once again that’s an example of a player that didn’t need the ball in his hands to be successful.

Worthy benefited from Magic’s ball dominance and creativity. Somewhat fittingly Worthy never put up elite scoring numbers (hovering around 20 PPG in his prime) because he didn’t dominate the ball but his efficiency was elite, twice putting up a FG% of 57.9 and twice more having a FG% of 54.8. On a worse team, without a hall of fame PG like Magic, Worthy would probably have routinely averaged 25 PPG, but with a lower shooting percentage and less team success.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Magic certainly bought out the best in James Worthy but once again that’s an example of a player that didn’t need the ball in his hands to be successful.

Worthy benefited from Magic’s ball dominance and creativity. Somewhat fittingly Worthy never put up elite scoring numbers (hovering around 20 PPG in his prime) because he didn’t dominate the ball but his efficiency was elite, twice putting up a FG% of 57.9 and twice more having a FG% of 54.8. On a worse team, without a hall of fame PG like Magic, Worthy would probably have routinely averaged 25 PPG, but with a lower shooting percentage and less team success.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I don’t think it’s a matter of fitting. It’s more about willing. As someone mentioned before, if you field 2 guards who are used to being the primary ballhandler, then one of them could get frustrated like Brandon Roy.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I don’t think it’s a matter of fitting. It’s more about willing. As someone mentioned before, if you field 2 guards who are used to being the primary ballhandler, then one of them could get frustrated like Brandon Roy.

[Author]

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