[AdamJCallejaParticipant]

Elfrid Payton (lottery pick), Jordan Clarkson (46th pick)

Who you guys taking to run your team?

It seems that whatever one lacks the other one makes up for. Clarkson a better jumpshooter, Payton the more natural facilitator, Clarkson seems to get to the rim more often, Payton much better defensively on and off the ball.

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Right now Clarkson.2 years from now Payton.but they both are Tease!!! I don’t think they will bee as great as they should be!!!!!!!!!

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Right now Clarkson.2 years from now Payton.but they both are Tease!!! I don’t think they will bee as great as they should be!!!!!!!!!

[llperez]

 i dont know much about elfrid as i dont follow the magic much, but as a die hard laker fan, i would cut dengelo russell, larry nance and julius randle on the spot no doubt to keep clarkson. he is hands down the best young guy the lakers got. 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 The lines up perfectly with your belief before the season that the Lakers could make the playoffs.  Kobe was still a great player and Rob Sacre is a rotational big…

Russell will be better than Clarkson after one off season.

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 The lines up perfectly with your belief before the season that the Lakers could make the playoffs.  Kobe was still a great player and Rob Sacre is a rotational big…

Russell will be better than Clarkson after one off season.

 

[llperez]

 lol at lakers could make th eplayoffs, i never once said that. And i said robert sacre is worhty being on a roster. he is solid for 10 minutes per game. You said he should be cut in favor of robert upshaw. Well we see how robert upshaw is not on any team so i guess th epeople who are paid to make choices agreed with me.

[llperez]

 lol at lakers could make th eplayoffs, i never once said that. And i said robert sacre is worhty being on a roster. he is solid for 10 minutes per game. You said he should be cut in favor of robert upshaw. Well we see how robert upshaw is not on any team so i guess th epeople who are paid to make choices agreed with me.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Rob Sacre is definitely the ugliest Laker girl.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Rob Sacre is definitely the ugliest Laker girl.

[mamadouParticipant]

That’s sad, you’re so off base on your own team.

 

 

 

 

 

[mamadouParticipant]

That’s sad, you’re so off base on your own team.

 

 

 

 

 

[llperez]

 what part am i off base about? We shall see who turns out to be the best laker of the young bunch, but i would put my money on clarkson. He is hte best defender, athlete of the bunch and he does the best job of creating his own shot and getting into the paint. As his jumper contniues to improve he will only get better. i like randle and russell a lot as well though so im not knocking them, but if i had to pick one it would be clarkson.

[llperez]

 what part am i off base about? We shall see who turns out to be the best laker of the young bunch, but i would put my money on clarkson. He is hte best defender, athlete of the bunch and he does the best job of creating his own shot and getting into the paint. As his jumper contniues to improve he will only get better. i like randle and russell a lot as well though so im not knocking them, but if i had to pick one it would be clarkson.

[llperez]

 i dont know much about elfrid as i dont follow the magic much, but as a die hard laker fan, i would cut dengelo russell, larry nance and julius randle on the spot no doubt to keep clarkson. he is hands down the best young guy the lakers got. 

[Hype Machine]

Man I’d be so pessimistic if I were a Lakers fan.

I know you gotta have faith etc….but that young ‘core’ wouldn’t win many games even in their prime.

50% chance they miss their lottery pick…and in 2 years time the ‘core’ will be just good enough to kill their lottery odds. 

It’s Simmons or bust. And there’s an 80% chance of bust. 

If they bust…they’ll be no-where near the playoffs OR the top end of the lottery for a longggg time.

As for Free Agents….lol

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Nah, give them time. Clarkson and Russell actually fit well together as guards, and will become only better with more experience (= less turnovers). Randle is a handfull down low, being as active as he is and as his shot develops (shooting close to 70% from FT) he will be above average at least at the PF position. Now they do need someone behind Randle who can defend, but I guess they should be able to pick someone up with their pick or their cap space. So overall, the Lakers are pretty bad right now, but they are in a far better position than they were last year.

[Hype Machine]

I just don’t see it.

Theres a lot of really talented young players in the NBA…but the Lakers guys aren’t in that ‘future All-star’ category. 

Just my opinion. Maybe one will break out….but I’m betting against it.

 

 

 

 

[Bankroll PJParticipant]

 I agree.  I’m a huge Laker fan and watch almost every game, but I don’t see Randle, Clarkson, or Russell as future all stars. I could see Randle or Russell making 1 or maybe 2 all star games down the road but I don’t see them as guys that will be all stars multiple times. 

Clarkson: while he is the best and easily the most consistent of the 3 right now, I don’t see him as a starting PG on a team that could be a contender.  I think he’s a guy that went from underrated to overrated in one season and that on a winning team, he’s a 6th man type of guy as a combo guard. 

Randle: I love his motor and competitive spirit but he must get a mid range jump shot, learn how to finish with his right hand, and be more active on defense if he wants to be a productive starter in this league.  He’s already undersized so I think it’s vital that he does these things. He’s young and this is basically his rookie season, so all those things are possible and hopefully they happen.

Russell: I’m actually more optomistic about his future than anyone else when on the roster. I hated this pick on draft night, and I still don’t love it (especially with the way Porzingis is playing) but he’s looking like he’s going to be a legit starter in this league.  He can shoot, he’s a gifted passer, and he’s getting better every game. I still don’t think he’ll be a multiple time all star but I think he’ll be a good starting PG in this league. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I’m actually pretty optimistic about Randle’s future. At this moment his game is based on how active he is, but with that same effort I see him improving one area at the time until he will be a borderline-Allstar.

For Russell I completely agree, he just needs time to develop. He has the shot, he has the vision, but lacks the experience and confidence to put it all together. As long as he puts in the work to keep improving I believe he can become a borderline-Allstar as well. 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I’m actually pretty optimistic about Randle’s future. At this moment his game is based on how active he is, but with that same effort I see him improving one area at the time until he will be a borderline-Allstar.

For Russell I completely agree, he just needs time to develop. He has the shot, he has the vision, but lacks the experience and confidence to put it all together. As long as he puts in the work to keep improving I believe he can become a borderline-Allstar as well. 

[Bankroll PJParticipant]

 I agree.  I’m a huge Laker fan and watch almost every game, but I don’t see Randle, Clarkson, or Russell as future all stars. I could see Randle or Russell making 1 or maybe 2 all star games down the road but I don’t see them as guys that will be all stars multiple times. 

Clarkson: while he is the best and easily the most consistent of the 3 right now, I don’t see him as a starting PG on a team that could be a contender.  I think he’s a guy that went from underrated to overrated in one season and that on a winning team, he’s a 6th man type of guy as a combo guard. 

Randle: I love his motor and competitive spirit but he must get a mid range jump shot, learn how to finish with his right hand, and be more active on defense if he wants to be a productive starter in this league.  He’s already undersized so I think it’s vital that he does these things. He’s young and this is basically his rookie season, so all those things are possible and hopefully they happen.

Russell: I’m actually more optomistic about his future than anyone else when on the roster. I hated this pick on draft night, and I still don’t love it (especially with the way Porzingis is playing) but he’s looking like he’s going to be a legit starter in this league.  He can shoot, he’s a gifted passer, and he’s getting better every game. I still don’t think he’ll be a multiple time all star but I think he’ll be a good starting PG in this league. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

I just don’t see it.

Theres a lot of really talented young players in the NBA…but the Lakers guys aren’t in that ‘future All-star’ category. 

Just my opinion. Maybe one will break out….but I’m betting against it.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Nah, give them time. Clarkson and Russell actually fit well together as guards, and will become only better with more experience (= less turnovers). Randle is a handfull down low, being as active as he is and as his shot develops (shooting close to 70% from FT) he will be above average at least at the PF position. Now they do need someone behind Randle who can defend, but I guess they should be able to pick someone up with their pick or their cap space. So overall, the Lakers are pretty bad right now, but they are in a far better position than they were last year.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

dude anyone that thinks Clarkson (good player limited by size), Russell (who has the legs of Madonna), and Randle (one of the lowest IQs in the league, dude thinks he has Lebron’s game), are going to win anything, are kidding themselves.

LA’s best thing going for it is its sun, palm trees, and pu**y.  See the two girls catfighting above.  JK.

They perenially rely on FAs to win.

 

I really hope the Sixers get the Lakers pick, it’d help us with Bender/Murray to go along with Ingram/Simmons, but it’d also set the Lakers back unless they hit the jackpot in FA.  Hate to say it, but the lakers suffering is more why I hope we get their pick.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

dude anyone that thinks Clarkson (good player limited by size), Russell (who has the legs of Madonna), and Randle (one of the lowest IQs in the league, dude thinks he has Lebron’s game), are going to win anything, are kidding themselves.

LA’s best thing going for it is its sun, palm trees, and pu**y.  See the two girls catfighting above.  JK.

They perenially rely on FAs to win.

 

I really hope the Sixers get the Lakers pick, it’d help us with Bender/Murray to go along with Ingram/Simmons, but it’d also set the Lakers back unless they hit the jackpot in FA.  Hate to say it, but the lakers suffering is more why I hope we get their pick.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Hype Machine]

Man I’d be so pessimistic if I were a Lakers fan.

I know you gotta have faith etc….but that young ‘core’ wouldn’t win many games even in their prime.

50% chance they miss their lottery pick…and in 2 years time the ‘core’ will be just good enough to kill their lottery odds. 

It’s Simmons or bust. And there’s an 80% chance of bust. 

If they bust…they’ll be no-where near the playoffs OR the top end of the lottery for a longggg time.

As for Free Agents….lol

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Clarkson. Easy. He improved game by game last year, improved over the off season, and has improved over this year. Seems like a smart worker. I don’t understand his defensive problems. Athletically and size-wise he should be killing it, but he’s nowhere close to average on D yet, 

The #1 difference between Payton and Clarlson is that Payton has free reign to do what he wants. When Kobe is out, Clarkson kills it. He should be getting 20 a night and maybe as much as 22. He’s the only Laker who can get a shot off whenever he wants. He should take all the last shots. 

Since Russell needs to be a PG and needs to shoot, I don’t think we’ll ever see Clarkson hit his full potential. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Clarkson. Easy. He improved game by game last year, improved over the off season, and has improved over this year. Seems like a smart worker. I don’t understand his defensive problems. Athletically and size-wise he should be killing it, but he’s nowhere close to average on D yet, 

The #1 difference between Payton and Clarlson is that Payton has free reign to do what he wants. When Kobe is out, Clarkson kills it. He should be getting 20 a night and maybe as much as 22. He’s the only Laker who can get a shot off whenever he wants. He should take all the last shots. 

Since Russell needs to be a PG and needs to shoot, I don’t think we’ll ever see Clarkson hit his full potential. 

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 close call, but Peyton because of his edge on defense. 

 

 

[canadabasketballisrisingParticipant]

 close call, but Peyton because of his edge on defense. 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Without sounding bias because I am a Lakers fan, I think I have to give the edge to Clarkson.

They are closer in age than I thought.  Though Clarkson is still older.  If a player is only good on one side of the ball, I tend to lean towards him being a good offender, rather than a defender.  That’s just how I prefer it to go, I know that some value defense over offense.

Peyton is a plus defender, but he looks like he will be in the Rondo class of a slow/never improving shooter.  He has time still, but it looks apparent that he will be considered an average shooter at absolute best.

This would be a no brainer if Clarksons physical profile carried over on the defensive end.  Someone the other day on this forum said that Clarkson isn’t that good of an athlete.  That is far from true.  He has the quickness and the speed to be a plus defender in the NBA, but he is kind of caught in between positions on defense, much like he is on O.  He is quick, but big enough that he gets caught up on just about every screen.  Not quite big enough to hold his own against some of the bigger wings.  

Clarkson is a tireless worker though.  He’s a gym rat.  If he dedicates an off season to improving his defensive side of the ball, he can really improve at it.  

I see Peyton as a starting PG on a team with a lot of weapons.  If the "weapons" are good enough, he could be a starting PG on a championship team I think.  But he would have to be the 5th best player in the lineup.

I think Clarksons ideal role is as a 6th man on a contender.  Definitely a starter on this Lakers squad.  I think he would be most effective in a solid 3 guard rotation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

Without sounding bias because I am a Lakers fan, I think I have to give the edge to Clarkson.

They are closer in age than I thought.  Though Clarkson is still older.  If a player is only good on one side of the ball, I tend to lean towards him being a good offender, rather than a defender.  That’s just how I prefer it to go, I know that some value defense over offense.

Peyton is a plus defender, but he looks like he will be in the Rondo class of a slow/never improving shooter.  He has time still, but it looks apparent that he will be considered an average shooter at absolute best.

This would be a no brainer if Clarksons physical profile carried over on the defensive end.  Someone the other day on this forum said that Clarkson isn’t that good of an athlete.  That is far from true.  He has the quickness and the speed to be a plus defender in the NBA, but he is kind of caught in between positions on defense, much like he is on O.  He is quick, but big enough that he gets caught up on just about every screen.  Not quite big enough to hold his own against some of the bigger wings.  

Clarkson is a tireless worker though.  He’s a gym rat.  If he dedicates an off season to improving his defensive side of the ball, he can really improve at it.  

I see Peyton as a starting PG on a team with a lot of weapons.  If the "weapons" are good enough, he could be a starting PG on a championship team I think.  But he would have to be the 5th best player in the lineup.

I think Clarksons ideal role is as a 6th man on a contender.  Definitely a starter on this Lakers squad.  I think he would be most effective in a solid 3 guard rotation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

 I don’t think there’s such thing as being caugh between positions on defense. Either you can guard or you can’t.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

 I don’t think there’s such thing as being caugh between positions on defense. Either you can guard or you can’t.

[Hype Machine]

Clarkson is a Restricted Free Agent at the end of this season. And he’s going to get a lot of interest from rival teams. 

Are the Lakers prepared to match any offer he gets? I honestly believe he’s going to be in that Reggie Jackson range (5years, 80m), as they’re similarly talented, young Point Guards. However, a team could offer more and put the Lakers in a really tough spot, whereby they’d lose him for nothing!

If not, is there any possibility of trading Clarkson to a team that is prepared to match any offer? They’d easily get a lottery pick in exchange, and it would add some insurance in case they miss out on this years pick.

I realise that swapping Clarkson for a high lottery pick doesn’t improve the team…but losing him for nothing really hurts them. 

So do you Pay him, Trade him, or take your chances in Restricted Free Agency?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Clarkson is a Restricted Free Agent at the end of this season. And he’s going to get a lot of interest from rival teams. 

Are the Lakers prepared to match any offer he gets? I honestly believe he’s going to be in that Reggie Jackson range (5years, 80m), as they’re similarly talented, young Point Guards. However, a team could offer more and put the Lakers in a really tough spot, whereby they’d lose him for nothing!

If not, is there any possibility of trading Clarkson to a team that is prepared to match any offer? They’d easily get a lottery pick in exchange, and it would add some insurance in case they miss out on this years pick.

I realise that swapping Clarkson for a high lottery pick doesn’t improve the team…but losing him for nothing really hurts them. 

So do you Pay him, Trade him, or take your chances in Restricted Free Agency?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[llperez]

 clarkson having been in the league only 2 years means his contract status is restricted in some regards due to the arenas provision umbrella. The most he can be offered is a 4 year deal worth 58 million or a 3 year deal worth 34 million. He isnt eligible for a 5th year nor is he eligible to make any more money then that until he has surpassed 4 seasons in the league. So a 3 year deal for 11 mill per or 4 year deal for 14.5 mill per, either way i match and there is no gaurantee people will even throw that much at him so lakers may get him for a little cheaper even. The other good thing is that most the money would come in years 3/4. He is only eligible for 5.2 million next season and 5.8 million in year 2. That spikes up to aroud 20 million per year for years 3 and 4. So even if the lakers max him out, he wont negatively impact their salary cap for the next couple summers.

[Hype Machine]

That is a unique situation indeed. I guess it’s to stop 2nd rounders earning more than 1st rounders. 

So it seems the Lakers can’t really lose on the deal. I’m thinking he goes for the 4 year/58m deal.

Can he gamble and play 1 more year as a Restricted Free Agent, and then become Unrestricted after 3 years? 

 

[llperez]

 yes, the lakers have to offer him a qualifying offer of 2.7 million next season to keep him restricted. The common thought going around is that clarkson will surely get offered the 3 year 34 million offer by somebody but its up in the air if anyone is willing to tack on the 4th year which would be for about 24 million in the final season. its also possible he does get 4 years but for less then the max, maybe something around 50 million. 

[llperez]

 yes, the lakers have to offer him a qualifying offer of 2.7 million next season to keep him restricted. The common thought going around is that clarkson will surely get offered the 3 year 34 million offer by somebody but its up in the air if anyone is willing to tack on the 4th year which would be for about 24 million in the final season. its also possible he does get 4 years but for less then the max, maybe something around 50 million. 

[Hype Machine]

That is a unique situation indeed. I guess it’s to stop 2nd rounders earning more than 1st rounders. 

So it seems the Lakers can’t really lose on the deal. I’m thinking he goes for the 4 year/58m deal.

Can he gamble and play 1 more year as a Restricted Free Agent, and then become Unrestricted after 3 years? 

 

[llperez]

 clarkson having been in the league only 2 years means his contract status is restricted in some regards due to the arenas provision umbrella. The most he can be offered is a 4 year deal worth 58 million or a 3 year deal worth 34 million. He isnt eligible for a 5th year nor is he eligible to make any more money then that until he has surpassed 4 seasons in the league. So a 3 year deal for 11 mill per or 4 year deal for 14.5 mill per, either way i match and there is no gaurantee people will even throw that much at him so lakers may get him for a little cheaper even. The other good thing is that most the money would come in years 3/4. He is only eligible for 5.2 million next season and 5.8 million in year 2. That spikes up to aroud 20 million per year for years 3 and 4. So even if the lakers max him out, he wont negatively impact their salary cap for the next couple summers.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

Payton and Clarkson are both non-impact players.

Neither guy would be a highly sought after FA.  

I would take Reggie Jackson over Clarkson any day, because I think Jackson is tougher. 

As Magic Mike said above, Clarkson is positionless in the NBA, which generally means, if you don’t fit the mold, you’re quickly old.  

Ask Thad Young, a great skilled and athletic forward. Unfortunately he’s a tweener.  Unless you’re a tweener with another skill, meaning you are an all around ballplayer, you don’t contribute much in the NBA.

For instance, I came on here saying how much I liked the way the Cavs were built.  Lebron, classic 3.  Thompson, classic 4. Mozgov, classic 5.  Smith and Shumpert, great size for 2 guards.  Kyrie and Delly, really solid 1s.  Great size at every position.  Unfortunately their personalities are not those of winners, but the team itself is really well constructed. 

Clarkson should just come off the bench, he’d be a good Kevin Martin Jamaal Crawford Lou Williams off the bench undersized guy.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 What is your ideal size for a combo guard?  I ask because you have said he is undersized multiple times.  He is 6’5" so he is big when playing the PG and about average,  or a half inch to an inch shorter of average size for a SG.  So I am curious what you think is ideal size for a combo guard?

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 What is your ideal size for a combo guard?  I ask because you have said he is undersized multiple times.  He is 6’5" so he is big when playing the PG and about average,  or a half inch to an inch shorter of average size for a SG.  So I am curious what you think is ideal size for a combo guard?

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

 i’ll be honest, he looks like he’s 6’3”.  So does your boy Russell.

Maybe its their age, or that their bodies haven’t developed, but for some reason, I don’t see a D Wade, MJ, Kobe, frame on any of these guys.  

I like Clarkson, I just don’t think he does impactful things.  Nothing he does wows you.  Agree that he went from underrated to slightly overrated. 

He’s a good player, but you said it yourself, he’s a 6th man on a good team.  the LA Hype Machine is in effect.  

I’ll give you this, he’s better than the previous hype jobs Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, and that guy Jordan Farmar, lol. 

 

 

 

 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

 i’ll be honest, he looks like he’s 6’3”.  So does your boy Russell.

Maybe its their age, or that their bodies haven’t developed, but for some reason, I don’t see a D Wade, MJ, Kobe, frame on any of these guys.  

I like Clarkson, I just don’t think he does impactful things.  Nothing he does wows you.  Agree that he went from underrated to slightly overrated. 

He’s a good player, but you said it yourself, he’s a 6th man on a good team.  the LA Hype Machine is in effect.  

I’ll give you this, he’s better than the previous hype jobs Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, and that guy Jordan Farmar, lol. 

 

 

 

 

[llperez]

 Lou will won 6th man of the year last season while playing on a playoff team and clarkson is better then him. Clarkson defends and attacks the paint. He’s an above average athlete. Farmer, Meeks, young, none of those guys were as good as clarkson is right now and he’s only in his second season. 

[llperez]

 Lou will won 6th man of the year last season while playing on a playoff team and clarkson is better then him. Clarkson defends and attacks the paint. He’s an above average athlete. Farmer, Meeks, young, none of those guys were as good as clarkson is right now and he’s only in his second season. 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

Payton and Clarkson are both non-impact players.

Neither guy would be a highly sought after FA.  

I would take Reggie Jackson over Clarkson any day, because I think Jackson is tougher. 

As Magic Mike said above, Clarkson is positionless in the NBA, which generally means, if you don’t fit the mold, you’re quickly old.  

Ask Thad Young, a great skilled and athletic forward. Unfortunately he’s a tweener.  Unless you’re a tweener with another skill, meaning you are an all around ballplayer, you don’t contribute much in the NBA.

For instance, I came on here saying how much I liked the way the Cavs were built.  Lebron, classic 3.  Thompson, classic 4. Mozgov, classic 5.  Smith and Shumpert, great size for 2 guards.  Kyrie and Delly, really solid 1s.  Great size at every position.  Unfortunately their personalities are not those of winners, but the team itself is really well constructed. 

Clarkson should just come off the bench, he’d be a good Kevin Martin Jamaal Crawford Lou Williams off the bench undersized guy.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Author]

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