[high floorParticipant]

Was curious to get the forum’s take on Elfrid Payton & how he’s performed this year.

In the weeks leading up to the draft Elfrid shot up draft boards, and the comparisons (most notably Chad Ford’s) to his namesake Gary Payton were in full force. Both were quick, big, pass first point guards with a rare ability to get into the paint at will.. but also could not shoot the basketball at all. The "it" factor was also a point of conversation & debate. Quick peek at Elfrid’s stats versus the Glove in his rookie season:

Elfrid Payton – 27mpg, 42%FG, 54%FT, 8.0ppg, 3.6rpg, 5.8apg, 2.3tov, 1.5stl

Gary Payton – 27mpg, 45%FG, 71%FT, 7.2ppg, 3.1rpg, 6.3apg, 2.2tov, 1.9stl

Pretty close overall, with Gary having the slight edge in assists, steals, and field goal percentage. Sizable lead in FT%. I didn’t have the pleasure of watching GP in his first 2 years, so maybe somebody that has can weigh in on his jump shooting? Was it as God-awful as Elfrid’s? Elf has s a long, long ways to go but I’m sold on his intangibles and potential to run a good, quality basketball team.

P.S – Does anyone with their glass half-full attitudes today see similarities between Elfrid Payton/Aaron Gordon and Gary Payton/Shawn Kemp? I feel that Gary & Shawn would be the absolute highest ceiling attainable for Elf/Aaron, but I can’t help but see small comparisons in their chemisty and Aaron Gordon’s freakish athleticism. Kemp’s rookie numbers are also comparable to AG’s. Aaron Gordon has played surprisingly well in limited minutes and opportunities this season. Last point, George Karl coached both in Seattle & just so happens to be available now for the right opportunity……….

 

 

 

 

 

 

[prophetmeirParticipant]

I like Payton never really tries to much and knows his strenghts and weakness. I want to see him in a patrick beverley frame of mind  ( which he has) guards 30 feet away from basketball and really gets into his guy. Once he starts exploring with pull ups and floaters His entire game will expand much more. I dont know about teh kemp peyton comparison IMO I just dont think aaron has that size that kemp had to really do what what he wants

[prophetmeirParticipant]

I like Payton never really tries to much and knows his strenghts and weakness. I want to see him in a patrick beverley frame of mind  ( which he has) guards 30 feet away from basketball and really gets into his guy. Once he starts exploring with pull ups and floaters His entire game will expand much more. I dont know about teh kemp peyton comparison IMO I just dont think aaron has that size that kemp had to really do what what he wants

[juves4783Participant]

i think the beverley comparison is pretty spot on.  beverley wasn’t a great shooter coming out of college but had the same intangibles as payton when he played at arkansas.  i actually think beverley led that team in all statistical categories, even rebounds.  

i also agree with your take on kemp.  gordon is more suited for the sf position and it seems that matching him up with a guy like channing frye works pretty good in the whole scheme of things.  

if gordon and payton work on their jumpers, the sky is the limit because they have the athleticism and ball skills to play right now without being able to shoot the ball.  i liked both picks and progression of oladipo and vucevic.  this team is coming along pretty nicely.

 

 

[juves4783Participant]

i think the beverley comparison is pretty spot on.  beverley wasn’t a great shooter coming out of college but had the same intangibles as payton when he played at arkansas.  i actually think beverley led that team in all statistical categories, even rebounds.  

i also agree with your take on kemp.  gordon is more suited for the sf position and it seems that matching him up with a guy like channing frye works pretty good in the whole scheme of things.  

if gordon and payton work on their jumpers, the sky is the limit because they have the athleticism and ball skills to play right now without being able to shoot the ball.  i liked both picks and progression of oladipo and vucevic.  this team is coming along pretty nicely.

 

 

[jaycee24Participant]

 I actually don’t like his game not yet at least…not trying to put a damper on him but I don’t see him scoring well in the NBA. He kind of reminds me of Jeff Teague and I think he’ll be a good floor general if he puts his mind on learning the game. I think if Mudiay was there for them you take him and get what you can for Payton and/or Gordon…unless you feel like waiting another 5 years to win games they need to cash in on these draft chips.

[jaycee24Participant]

 I actually don’t like his game not yet at least…not trying to put a damper on him but I don’t see him scoring well in the NBA. He kind of reminds me of Jeff Teague and I think he’ll be a good floor general if he puts his mind on learning the game. I think if Mudiay was there for them you take him and get what you can for Payton and/or Gordon…unless you feel like waiting another 5 years to win games they need to cash in on these draft chips.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

You don’t like his game,and to show that you say he reminds you of Jeff Teague? Jeff Teague is an all star this year,and the point guard,one of the best players of the best team in the nba. I’ sure Magic fans like the OP would be fine with that !

[sitlbitoParticipant]

You don’t like his game,and to show that you say he reminds you of Jeff Teague? Jeff Teague is an all star this year,and the point guard,one of the best players of the best team in the nba. I’ sure Magic fans like the OP would be fine with that !

[DolanCareParticipant]

 I watch a lot of Elfrid and I would say he has met my expectations so far. Not exceeded, not missed. With a player of his game style, the surronding cast is really important for his own performance. He is a facilitator with the ability to get the defense to collapse once he drives.

Without shooters and a reliable pick and roll partner (Gordon doesn’t play enough, Vucevic isn’t a great roll-man) his game has a short ceiling. But similar to Rondo, if you play him with great players- notably some great shooters- he’ll be a big impact guy. 

The biggest issue as said above is shooting. He may never be a reliable 3pt shooter, but his FT numbers are unexceptable. In fact, they have been so bad it’s probably a reason Coach Vaughn doesn’t let him drive in more. No guard can shoot before 70% in this league and Elfrid needs to get that up. 

 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

 I watch a lot of Elfrid and I would say he has met my expectations so far. Not exceeded, not missed. With a player of his game style, the surronding cast is really important for his own performance. He is a facilitator with the ability to get the defense to collapse once he drives.

Without shooters and a reliable pick and roll partner (Gordon doesn’t play enough, Vucevic isn’t a great roll-man) his game has a short ceiling. But similar to Rondo, if you play him with great players- notably some great shooters- he’ll be a big impact guy. 

The biggest issue as said above is shooting. He may never be a reliable 3pt shooter, but his FT numbers are unexceptable. In fact, they have been so bad it’s probably a reason Coach Vaughn doesn’t let him drive in more. No guard can shoot before 70% in this league and Elfrid needs to get that up. 

 

 

[sitlbitoParticipant]

The lack of a floater/mid range game is what holds him back. The defenders just back pedal until just before the restricted area,and wait for him to run into them and take a charge. Hes’s good at most of the other things though,passing,finishing especially. His upside is still there,I’d like to see him in a better team. As for the comparisons with Kemp for A.GordonI’m too young so I never watched Kemp play,but only thing I can say is that it would be hard to me to compare two players with such different mindstes/behaviour. Shawn Kemp was kind of a knucklehead,A.Gordon looks like he’s already more mature than Shawn Kemp ever was lol.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

The lack of a floater/mid range game is what holds him back. The defenders just back pedal until just before the restricted area,and wait for him to run into them and take a charge. Hes’s good at most of the other things though,passing,finishing especially. His upside is still there,I’d like to see him in a better team. As for the comparisons with Kemp for A.GordonI’m too young so I never watched Kemp play,but only thing I can say is that it would be hard to me to compare two players with such different mindstes/behaviour. Shawn Kemp was kind of a knucklehead,A.Gordon looks like he’s already more mature than Shawn Kemp ever was lol.

[r377Participant]

Gary Payton was a college superstar who took a while to develop in the pros. In his first few years ppl were claiming he was a bust, until he turned it around.

Shawn Kemp was raw coming out of high school but was a physical specimen. Gordon is athletic but doesn’t have the brute strength Kemp had. Gordon also doesn’t have Kemp’s offense.

I am not sold on Gordon, he will never be as good as Shawn Kemp.

While I appreciate any thread that isn’t about The Sixers draft pick or lopsided trades to make NY or the Lakers contenders again I just can’t see how these two can be compared to Payton and Kemp.

[r377Participant]

Gary Payton was a college superstar who took a while to develop in the pros. In his first few years ppl were claiming he was a bust, until he turned it around.

Shawn Kemp was raw coming out of high school but was a physical specimen. Gordon is athletic but doesn’t have the brute strength Kemp had. Gordon also doesn’t have Kemp’s offense.

I am not sold on Gordon, he will never be as good as Shawn Kemp.

While I appreciate any thread that isn’t about The Sixers draft pick or lopsided trades to make NY or the Lakers contenders again I just can’t see how these two can be compared to Payton and Kemp.

[jalliParticipant]

Struggles to score, not a good shooter and limited passing ability.  With his athleticism I see him being a defensive/energy player off the bench.

[jalliParticipant]

Struggles to score, not a good shooter and limited passing ability.  With his athleticism I see him being a defensive/energy player off the bench.

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