The Duke curse
i don't know if anyone else noticed this, but it seems Duke players are cursed to have horrible nba careers or have something horrible happen to them during their career. here's the list of these players:
Christian Laettener: his nickname was "the princess"
Jay Williams: motorcycle accident
Bobby Hurley: car accident
Grant Hill: horrifing ankle injury that nearly killed him
Mark Alarie: bust
Danny Ferry: bust
Shane Battier: a great role player, but still just a role player
Mike Dunleavey: 3rd pick in 2002 draft, average role player
Will Avery: bust
Trajan Langdon: bust, but a sensation in Russia
Mike Gminsky: average center in the 80's
Corey Maggette: ball hog extrodinaire
Jeff Mullins: was an all-star with the warriors in the 60's, no hall-of-famer though
Chris Duhon: back-up point guard
Loul Deng: decent player but overpaid
Sheldon Williams: bust
J J Reddick: this one suprised me, he could be a Steve Kerr type
Carlos Boozer: there may be hope
Cherokee Parks: bust
Elton Brand: looked so promising. he could've broken the curse but then injuries prevailed.
i might've left some players out of this. feel free to add more
I think you're exaggerating just a little bit. Elton Brand did serious damage before his knee troubles. He was one of only a handful of players averaging 20-10-2 up until just a couple of years ago. It's not like he only played well for one or two years, then tore almost every ligament in his knee.
Grant Hill was an absolute menace before his ankle injury. IMO, he was one of the best all-around players of his generation. Aside from his 3-point shooting (which was pretty much non-existent), he really had no weaknesses.
Dunleavy was another guy who was bitten by the injury bug. He averaged 19 points per game over the '07-'08 season, all while shooting a very respectable 47% from the floor and 42% from downtown. Add in his 5 rebounds and 3 assists per game, and you have a good #2 or excellent #3 option.
Luol Deng is a very good player. He'll never be a marquee star, but he gives you 17 and 7 along with great perimeter defense... when he's healthy.
J.J. had plenty of doubters when he came into the league. Depending on who you ask, he's pretty much proven them right or he's right on par with what they expected.
I completely agree with your opinion on Maggette. Not only is he a ball-hog, but he's an inconsistent shooter and an overrated slasher. He gets to the hoop because of his brute strength and quickness, not because he can consistently break his man down one-on-one. Also, for someone with his physical tools, he sure is a lousy defender.
Aside from all this, I think it just boils down to the type of guys Coach K recruits. The majority of his top recruits aren't seen as one-and-done or two-and-through type of guys (Redick, Shelden Williams, Scheyer, Nolan Smith, Lance Thomas, Singler).
ur right. i tried posting somehting like this a while ago and some dumbass thougt i was wrong...but the stats dont lie
s2k racer, I thought that was a fascinating list which brought back lots of memories. You did an excellent job, however, I want to make a few comments.
Shane Battier was never projected to be anything but a role player. The same was true of Chris Duhon, nobody expected anything from him and so far he hasn't done anything. You can also throw in a couple of other names who actually had low expectations.
Carlos Boozer is and has been one of the top power forwards in the game for years.
Of course Grant Hill was an All Star caliber player until he was hit with all of those injuries. And at the age of 37, he's still playing extremely well.
I think the 4 biggest busts on your list were:
1. Mike Dunleavy, who hasn't even come close to achieving what was expected.
2. Danny Ferry, who was a total bust.
3. Sheldon Williams
4. Cherokee Parks. I thought he would be a productive starting center in the NBA but he was atrocious.
As for JJ Reddick, I am not the least bit surprised by his achievements so far. When he played at Duke he was always guarded by the opponent's best defensive player and he destroyed almost every one. I think what surprises most people is the caliber of his all around game, passing, driving, and playing solid defense.
In light of Reddick's all around game, my other objection is the Steve Kerr comparison [white guy with another white guy]. As you know, Kerr was a one dimensional player. I'm sure you could have come up with a better one than that.
except hill i think that none of these player had hof or even allstar potantial
Yeah LeMay...This dumbass proved you wrong and then your next 3 posts were spent calling me an idiot, dumbass, etc rather than bringing up points relevant to the argument.
Once again I'll say this:
This "curse" is something in the past that clearly is affecting nothing now.
Elton Brand- Former All-Star, doesn't fit well in current system but if he goes somewhere else I think he will excel
Carlos Boozer- All-Star
Grant Hill- Former All-Star,still going strong
JJ Redick- Look at the last 10 years all the players drafted 11 overall--Redick is one of best 2 or 3 in that group (It was also the year that they changed the rule to no HS'ers so the draft wasn't as deep)
Luol Deng is a solid player
Corey Maggette,say what you will,is averaged 20 points on over 50% shooting this past season along with 5 reb and 2.5 assists
Shane Battier as the 6th overall pick was never expected to be a great offensive player in the L but he has been regarded as one of the best defensive players and one of the smartest.. His impact on games go deeper than stats.
Shelden Williams and Mike Dunleavy are the only ones who can really count as busts recently. And Dunleavy only because of injuries.
As I said before and I'll say countless more times I am sure 20 years ago there were quite a few Duke players who struggled in the league... Right now Duke players are faring very well.
SpencerIsHawesome2, I think you did an excellent job above but I disagree with one of your comments. Please do not blame injuries for Mike Dunleavy's failures. He's been a major bust since the day he was drafted.
Even though some of these Dukies are having success, I still wouldn't really want them on my team. Boozer is good but is helped out by Sloan so really the only player I would want is Battier cuz he is such a good role player off the bench. You can have all the other flaming Blue Devils thou
All these players are coached well. That's why their potential is low.
Boozer shouldnt be on that list he proved he can be a starter on any team and he is a all-star
Deng shouldnt be on there either but most definitly over paid.....
Reddick its still to early to say if he goes to another team and he is being used right he can be a dangerous offensive threat.
Had no idea you could die from ankle injuries.
"Boozer is good but is helped out be Sloan"
"All of these players are coached well. That's why their potential is low."
Might be 2 of the strangest arguments I've ever seen
I agree with rbt, Dunleavy was a bust even w/out the injuries.
Grant Hill would've been a HOF player if not for the career ending injuries.
Brand is averaging 19,10 with 2 blocks in his career after 11 seasons.
Redick is coming around avg'd 10 pts in 22 mins he was definately drafted too high though.
Carlos Boozer for a 2nd round pick has done very well.
Deng is a good player, Bulls just gave him a big contract.
The only year Dunleavy played the whole season he averaged 19ppg,5 apg,3.5rpg... But not much point in arguing this since I agree he is a bust, I think it has more to do with injuries than you but it's not too big of a deal..
Anyways..What I want to talk about is JJ Redick
People always say JJ was drafted too high at 11 overall in the draft..I'm gonna counter this argument with a few positions:
1) It was a weak draft: This was the first year that no HS'ers were allowed in the draft, so the only players who could enter were the freshman who didn't go pro after HS or upperclassmen(soph+) who weren't good enough to go pro after HS or Freshman yr. So the talent was weak, as evident by the top of the draft (Bargnani #1 overall, Aldridge, Morrison, T Thomas, Shelden Williams). It has to be noted he was taken 11 overall in a very weak draft. If they were to do a re-do of this draft I'm willing to bet JJ would be taken in the top-10, therefore making him more of a steal than a reach.
2) Who else? Look at the 9 picks following JJ... Hilton Armstrong, Sefolosha, Brewer, Shawne Williams, Quincey Douby, etc.. In retrospect Rondo and Paul Millsap should've gone in front of him but Rondo was taken 21(not that hyped out of college) and we all know Millsap's drop.
3) Pietrus, Jared Jeffries, Fran Vasquez, Kendrick Brown, Andris Biedrins, Jerome Moiso, Acie Law, Jerryd Bayless, Terrence Williams, JJ Redick
Those are the #11 overall picks from the last 10 years. Redick is arguably the best of this group and if not the best he is one of the top-few.
to better explain the "Grant Hill almost died from an ankle injury" quote. after one of his surguries on his ankle he developed a very bad infection that almost cost him his foot and his life. makes you wonder what could've been if not for the injuries.
i think it's just interesting that one of the most storied programs in college basketball has never produced a nba hall-of-famer. if you look at all the other most storied prgrams, (UCLA, UNC, Kentucky, Indiana) they all have at least one nba hall-of-famer. either that means Duke players are over-hyped or have very bad luck when they turn pro (Hill, Hurley, Williams, Brand), or coach k is just that good
FWIW Duke has the most players out of any college in the NBA this year and the highest payroll
if anything Boozer is an overacheiver and Grant Hill is a bad mama jamma.....imo Hill was the player that turned Coach K from an awesome coach to immortal.....it is no coincidence that they finally won a national title when he came to town.....
and also Johnny Dawkins had a pretty good career....
dont underestimate, undervalue, and underlook the role of the roleplayer... im sure if we all can get 15 Lebrons on a team for all the teams in the NBA that would be awesome but we cant so we live off roleplayers... players like a Battier for defense and occasional shots here and there, players like a Barbosa for energy, Terry for shots, sure they are not Lebron and probably will never be but by no account are they bad players
I definitely wouldnt consider Battier a bust either.....Jay Bilas and Alaa Abdelnaby are 2 more Dukies who never made it as pros who were awesome in college.....
is one of 8 players 25 or younger that averaged 17 and 7 and he shot pretty good percentages too. people undervalue him because of his recent injury troubles. boozer also has a bullshit injury prone stigma around him but he missed significant time only once outta of the last four years.
unc players are more of a bust now. felton is the only recent one to have some kinda success. marvin williams is alright also
People on here say this all the time, and it's really getting old having to make this argument. I'm sure Spencerishawesome agrees with me. Lets look at Roy Williams's players in the NBA, or Bill Self's or Tom Izzos. Every program is going to have players that underachieve in the NBA. Duke, just like every other program has had its fair share of stars and busts. Since people hate Duke, they seem to overlook other coaches failures, while downplaying Krzyzewski's successes and overplaying the busts coming out of Duke. You could make that list for any college coach and it would be filled with bust, most likely more. Hell, People tout Calipari as a great coach for NBA development, before Derrick Rose, he had ONE good NBA player. Not every player drafted can pan out. This is true for Duke and every other school.
ummm...when i started this post it was intended to point out how un-lucky Duke players are once they get to the nba. this is not a typical "hating on Duke" post. i actually like Duke. This is a historical perspective, not a "what have they done lately thing". i was just pointing out that throughout Dukes' history, most of their star players run into some kind of trouble. it's either the games' of players that were stars in college don't translate to the pro game (Ferry) or the ones that actually have a chance at being an nba superstar ( Grant Hill, Jay Williams, Brand ) have some freak accident happen that prevents them from being a sure fire hall-of-famer. i actually feel bad for them. Boozer is for the most part, has managed to avoid this even though he's had rotten luck with injuries too. now this is not a slight against Duke, just pointing out that one of the top 5 college programs of all-time has no nba hall-of-famers
Haha ok bro, theres a big difference between your 1st post saying "Duke players are cursed to have horrible NBA careers" and pointing out that Duke has no hall of famers.
and i agree and disagree with sum stuff. but the thing i agreed with the most is coach k recruits a certain type of player. he recruits a guy with a certain character and skill set. coach k recruits players to win in college not to be the greatest nba player and i think the guys that play 4 him understand that. now their are exceptions like jason williams and jj redick being drafted rathe rearly but most guys that play at duke know what their careers will pan out 2 be and expect nothing other. i can say confidently that i dont think jj redick would have even made the nba had he played 4 another school. coach k recruited jj and tailored the offense to his abilities and made him the star he was.
coach k is a hall of famer. the coach is the face of most good schools not players