So hey folks I'm not going through all that explaining from 1.0...you read it, you know how I feel. At any rate I'll go another way with this one. I know there's a lot of talk out there about us trading Josh Smith, I personally dont see this happening. My beef with Smooth is that he has no jump shot, yet refuses not to shoot the ball more often than not, word is he's going to a super camp in order to get better at that, I know he and Woody have beef from time to time, but that's not the kind of player you trade, especially after signing him to a big contract last off-season.
A player I do like is Marvin Williams, outside of his injury woes he's a much improved player showing quality touch from 3 this past season which is all he needed to do in my eyes to be a player to keep around. However he's a RFA, and money doesn't grow on trees so I think we SIGN and Trade Williams with the Timberwolves for pick #6, #47 and SF Corey Brewer.
Let Bibby walk
trade Speedy and #49 to Memphis for #27
trade Solomon Jones, Law and #47 to Wizards for Javaris Crittenton and #32
at 6 draft PG Brandon Jennings
at 19 draft C BJ Mullens
at 27 draft SF DaJuan Summers
at 32 draft PG/SG Toney Douglas
in FA sign PF/C Marcus Camby and SF/PF Charlie Villanueva
what you guys think?
I like this off-season plan better than the first one. Marvin has gotten better ever year and is wanted by other teams so signing and trading him to Minnesota is a good idea. I like getting the picks plus an athletic winger who can play awesome D in Corey Brewer. I don't see Memphis taking Speedy at all, but there may be other suitors that would want to talk trade with Atlanta on him. I have seen a lot of things about Crittenton, but ATL shouldn't trade Law unless they know they have zero plans for him.
Not sold on Jennings as early as #6. He has come across serious issues and lack of maturity to play at the next level. There will be other good PGs available at that spot they could take. I dont think he has the heart and desire of a guy like Jonny Flynn. BJ Mullens and DaJuan Summers are both solid looks that can put depth on this team for the future. Also, a lot of experts think they will go for a shooter at 19, like Wayne Ellington. Villanueva is a RFA so Milwaukee could match any offer we may fly his way, but he would be a solid pick up, Just have to get him to be more confident and less sporadic. Marcus Camby isn't a FA tho, so if we wanted to get him it would have to be VIA trade. There are some other quality 4's and 5's that will be available that could give us a strength/rebounding boost
Marvin Williams cannot be traded until he is either signed to an extension, or an offer sheet has been signed on him during the FA period, which is after the draft. It looks more and more likely that Marvin will be traded this offseason, but a team is not going to draft a guy (MIN drafting Jennings), play him during Summer League, then trade him. Marvin would likely go for an already contracted player, like a Corey Brewer, and future draft considerations. Same rules apply to Solomon Jones.
Camby would be a great addition, but the Clippers probably won't let him go. They'll probably look to move Randolph, then Kaman. People may not bit on Randolph, but they'll throw a big bait for Kave-Man.
Don't put too much stock in a draft. Right now, there's a lot of buzz around a lot of players, and most of that is instigated by agents and analysts who want face time, or a column. If the Hawks wanna pick up another pick, let them buy it later in the 1st RND from one of the teams looking to save money (NO, MEM, OKC, LAL, CLE) for the FA period.
Also, don't just shun Bibby because he's getting a little old. He's a still a solid player in this league, and has been a real bright spot for the Hawks. If the asking price gets higher than $6.5M/season or longer than 3 years, then let him walk. But, I agree, trade Speedy and Acie!
Houston picked donte green, played him in summer league and then traded him for ron artest last year
But, that was a late 1st RND pick, not the #6 overall pick. A bit different, wouldn't ya say?
true but jennings hasnt dropped 40 in a summer league game yet like donte did
Dropping 40 in a summer league game doesnt mean anything towards trade bait. He sure hasnt dropped anything close to that in the NBA. The only reason Greene was traded was for houston to be able to get Artest
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Hawks have a very simple and logical way to improve (not necessarily solve) their big man problem. They actually already have his rights...David Anderson.
He's an Australian Center that is widely considered one of the best few big men playing in Europe for the last few years. He's still only 27 years old but after drafting him in the 2002 draft, the Hawks would be wise to make a move on him this offseason. They still hold his rights and have done nothing with him for several years while he's been excelling in Europe. I find it really confusing. Maybe they can't offer him the contract dollars that he's getting in Europe, but I'm certain that he still wants to play NBA ball and would take a pay cut for the chance. It would be a smart move financially as he'd be a whole lot cheaper than someone like Kaman, Chandler or Camby.
He's got a silky smooth and deadly acurate turnaround jumper and plays with toughness inside. Think of his game as somewhere between Dirk Nowitzki and Luis Scola (yes I know they are very different players but he's somewhere in between). If you haven't seen him play here's a clip and a link to his draft page on another *cough* draft *cough* website *cough* that explains his situation and the Hawks foolishness thus far.
UnlimitedRange, I know you are with me...Any thoughts from the rest of you guys?
That is good, but you would be bringing in a guy based on potential since he hasnt played at the NBA level yet. If they go out and get somebody with proven credentials it would suit them more, especially if they can lock him up for a long-term deal. Nobody knows how Anderson will respond to be a big role guy with a team that is on the rise. We can't afford to get a guy that isn't ready mentally and physically to play significant minutes for 82 games.
I see what you're saying but I'm going to agree with unlimited here. Scola is a good comparison. Andersen has pretty much played at the NBA level. Possibly higher if you consider the Olympics higher. He's played against guys like Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Pau Gasol, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Nene, Brad Miller, Luis Scola etc. heaps of times in International competition and played well. Generally, mature and elite big men that are playing at the top level in Europe and play in International competition come over and play pretty well. Eg. Luis Scola, Andres Nocioni, Fabricio Oberto, Anderson Varejao, Marc Gasol, Jorge Garbajosa, Nenad Kristic etc. That list doesn't include guys like Dirk, Pau and Turkoglu who were 22 years old when they came over. There are obviously examples of young unproven guys with 'potential' like Darko and Tskitishvilli that failed epically, but usually the older, proven guys do well. I'm not saying that there isn't an element of risk involved, but I'd say that his 'credentials' are actually pretty good. I'd contend that he's a safer bet than unproven NBA players with comparable salary demands like Francisco Elson, Steven Hunter, Robert Swift, Josh McRoberts, Patrick O'Bryant and similar dead weight type players. Andersen might not be an all-star, but he'll be a guaranteed solid player that will be cheap enough to allow the Hawks to focus on re-signing players like Bibby. From a purely financial standpoint in terms of risk and reward, it seems like a smart idea to me.
...Luis Scola was in a similar situation. And, word on the street is that Andersen would've already been here had Billy Knight not (ahem) resigned. There are also a lot of teams interested in Andersen, so it be ashamed to keep him overseas for yet another season instead of putting in a Hawks uni OR packaging him with, say, Speedy's expiring contract. Might get something fun in return. But I still wanna see him with the Hawks.
~ SIDE NOTE: Rumor has it that Brandon Jennings is falling hard. There are a lot of smart GMs picking between 8 &16, and there's some buzz that none of them like Jennings' attitude. If he doesn't get picked by the Warriors at #6 or the Bucks at #10, then he may fall all the way to the 76ers at #17. Just something to keep in mind. I believe Jennings' has value at #15 or #16. If I were the Hawks, I'd try to move up a couple of spots and nab him on draft night. But then again, that's why there are smart GMs, and GMs that get fired.
If the Hawks wanna get rid of Marvin and decide David Andersen is not in their plans, then what could we get for them. That's where I got to thinking, what about Corey Maggette. Up until last season, he was one the most underrated players in the league, and I truly believe he's getting paid about what he's worth. Also, the Warriors are stocked full of guys who just don't "fit the system." So, how's this for a trade proposal with the Warriors:
ATL sends David Andersen, Speedy Claxton, and #19 pick (Chase Budinger or Wayne Ellington) to the Warriors.
GS sends Corey Maggette, Brandan Wright, and Marco Belinelli to the Hawks.
Then, during the FA period, the deal could be completed with the Warriors signing Marvin Williams (who, since his three point game has improved, would be more attractive to the Warriors).
Anyway, I'm not sure of how this would work out completely and I don't even know if the Hawks would wanna push the budget to do this, but the Hawks would benefit greatly from this deal. They'd keep their 'core', and improve their chances for next season. They only thing they'd be losing an outside threat, which, if Belinelli ever developed, he could be that guy.
FC - Horford / Wright / Morris
F - Smith / Evans / Hunter
GF - Maggette / Belinelli / James Singleton (via FA)
G - Johnson / Murray / West
PG - Bibby / Law / (vacant)
We'd still be hungry for a Center, but we'd be a lot more athletic on the blocks with Wright over Pachulia. What do ya think?
That would be highway robbery for the Hawks. What is maggette getting paid like 11 mil a year? so the hawks are trading a bad contract, and unproven big man who might not even sign with the warriors, and another mystery guy? and the warriors send the hawks maggette and then some? i dont even think the salaries work out to begin with but belinelli and brandon wright were both lottery picks i believe. I know wright was the number 9 pick pretty sure bellinelli was a lottery pick. I dont think that the warriors would be thrilled to lose maggette for speedy claxton and another shooter they dont need. If anything the hawks would have to trade smith straight up for maggette. I think smith would fit better with the warriors and he could pretend like hes a PF since he wants to now anyways.
First, this was just a suggestion. I know it seems impossible, but isn't that the NBA, "Where Impossible Happens."
Second, yes it would be highway robbery for the Hawks, I'm a Hawks fan and I see that both Wright and Belinelli are totally underappreciated by Nelly, so I was just trying to see what the Hawks could take advantage of. And, if the Warriors are going to pass on a PG in the draft and take Jordan Hill, then Wright will get even less minutes, right? Screw the fact that they're lottery picks, they're not playing.
The Warriors have expressed a lot of interest in moving one of their contracts, particularly the Maggette one, and they have expressed a lot of interest in drafting Chase Budinger. I was just putting two and two together. Nothing more.
Lopsided, yes, but it kinda makes sense.
I'm not sure if underappreciated is the word, maybe underutilized or unproven. Nellie has a bad track record with young players getting playing time. I think Wright is a tweener SF/PF and i couldnt see him playing ahead of Captain Jack or Maggette. Belinelli is a good shooter but im not sure what else he brings to the table. I think Nellie just likes proven veterans over younger guys but I don't think the Warriors are ready to give up on them yet. Plus they already have Crawford, Ellis, Jackson and Maggette to score I would think they could use a bit of defense and rebounding off the bench not more of the same. That's why I think Smith straight up for Maggette is beneficial to both teams.
Anthony Randolph and Anthony Morrow. Both play the same poisitions as Wright and Belinelli, and both got a lot more playing time than either. Oh, and both had less experience.
Also, Marvin for Maggette makes sense for the Warriors because of Marvin's ability to hit the outside shots with consistency, and his ability to rebound and defend. Yes, Marvin is an above average defender (part of the reason the Hawks struggled so much against CLE was he was hurt), and a more consistent rebounder than Maggette. Remember, you said that they already have guys like Crawford & Ellis & Jackson who could score. Marvin would be a better compliment to that team than even Josh Smith.
I'm just sayin' this makes more sense than their reputations would suggest.
is marvin an unrestricted free agent or restricted? or is he still under contract?
He is a restricted Free Agent
ok so thats a problem for both teams. say golden state does like marvin and makes him an offer that atlanta matches. you cant trade him to golden state now because you matched their offer. so that means atlanta resigns him and then trades him? seems far fetched. I still think a smith for maggette deal would benefit both teams. smith can at least play transition defense for golden state, and nellie has a ton of players with poor shot selection already. He fits right in! Maggette wont frustrate the hawks by taking 3's when he could just drive in, he has much better shot selection than josh smith. You do miss smith's hustle but i think you make up for that since you dont burn as many possessions with smith shooting fadeaway airballs.
A Smith for Maggette trade would only benefit the Warriors. Smith is younger, and has a higher ceiling than Maggette, who has really already hit his prime, and is on the other side of the hill. ATL is not looking to move Smith for an older version of himself.
Moving Marvin to the Warriors gives them something DIFFERENT then what they already have. It essentially gives them back Mikael Pietrus, and tell me Warrior fans don't wanna have him back.
Oh, and the Hawks don't have to sign the offer sheet in order to trade a player. The Warriors could sign the sheet, and the Hawks would, in turn, would not really match the offer sheet. Being a restricted FA means that the Hawks then have the right to trade Williams to whatever team signs him.
All of this is really for nothing as the Warriors would love to trade Crawford, Jackson, or Ellis before they'd wanna trade Maggette, at least, I think that's their preferred order. It's just, as a Hawks' fan, I'd wanna see if I could steal Maggette away, along with a couple of underused prospects.
i would think maggette would be second on that list. jack would be very last of all. he is the heart and soul of that team if you trade him that team is nothing. but then again i never thought that they would let baron walk away either and it happened. i dont think that team really needs pietrus back. if they wanted him so bad they should have kept him. they dont need a defensive stopper and he wasnt the greatest shooter. i just think smith fits in the warriors system better than maggette does. maggette is way more polished and knows the difference between a good basketball play and a bad one. smith can make up for a lot of his stupid plays with his athleticism but he isnt going to have that forever. if the hawks are really looking to trade smith at least get a solid player back. talent wise i dont really see too much of a drop off. i think it would be on the warriors end if anything. and if marvin is a restricted free agent and the warriors sign him i dont think that would count towards matching up the salaries for the trade since he technically isnt a hawk.
Sorry that was in reply to Mamba's post obviously. I usually miss a lot of posts. Damn time difference. It's lunch time here. In fact... I'm going to go find something to eat.