[2quick4uParticipant]

 i’m gonna try to throw some light at this nonsense abyss between dragan bender and thon maker, that has one of them in one extreme at nº3 in the draft and the other one in the other extreme at late first and even 2nd round..

.so in one extreme you have dragan bender, a 7’0.5" (with shoes) player with 7’2 wingspan and 9’3 reach, he’s not very athletic nor explosive (23.5 no step vert./27.5 max vert.) but he’s quite fluid and coordinated for his size and this combination plus his "supposed" 3 point shooting ability is what seems to have enamored scouts despite the fact that he only weighs 220 pounds and has narrow shoulders..oh! i forgot..and he’s only played 1 year as a pro averaging around 10 min/g in a very weak league..but still he’s considered unanimously a top 5 player and even a top 3 player..

.in the other extreme you have thon maker, a 7’0.75" (with shoes) player with 7’3 wingspan and 9’3 reach. in his case, he’s very athletic, as he posted the highest no step vert. ever (32) for a +6’11 player plus a 36’5 max vert. he’s also very fluid and coordinated for his size and is "supposed" to have a good 3 point shot. but him, at 220 pounds is said to be "very weak" plus he doesn’t have experience at better competition so he’s labeled by scouts as high risk player and worth only at late first at best..

WHAT¿? excuse me, can you explain that again??

so both players have the same physical tools(actually maker is way more athletic),same weight,same game,same age,same no experience but…there’s an abyss between them..

so next question would be..why this abyss, what’s the difference between them, what makes bender a top 3???

some people/scouts might say; well, bender is a better 3 point shooter and has better post game and overall game..

REALLY??

let’s see..:

benders shooting stats:

.2014 U-18 european championship(9 games played): 1.3/4.1= 32% 3P + 5.3/11.6=46% FG

.2014-2015 adidas eurocamp (5 games):  .2/1.8= .11% 3P + 2.2/5.6=39% FG

.2014-15 maccabi junior team (4 games):  1/3.75=26% 3P + 8.5/19.75=43% FG

.2015-16 euroleague/eurocup (10 games): .2/1=21% 3P + .7/2.6=27% FG

.2015-16 BSL(league israel)-26 games-:  .88/2.2=40% 3P + 1.8/3.88=47% FG 

so he’s only really shown good percentages in the israel’s league wich is a really weak league and only for 26 games..when he’s faced tougher competition like euroleague he’s struggled bad..is that enough sample to label him as a good shooter or as better shooter than maker? is he actually really that good of a shooter?

what about the rest of his game, does he have a post game? well the answer is no, he doesn’t. so.. does he play physical? no, he doesn’t like contact and can’t finish strong..so..can he drive? well he’s kind of fluid and coordinated but truth is he’s not explosive at all and he’s pretty slow, actually way slower and less explosive than maker..

so again..what’s the difference between the 2??

well, scouts and media are labeling bender as either the next porzingis or the next tony kukoc..wait..WHAT??

when a player gets these kind of extreme comparisons is because they haven’t seen him play much or because they are really bad at their job..

bender is not the next porzingis because he’s no where near in terms of athleticism and lenght,and therefore defense plus porzingis had actually a very high skill set in the post before arriving to the nba..furthermore he had been a top player in the 2nd toughest league in the world for 2 years before coming..

and.. he’s not the next kukoc..that has to be a bad joke..and doesn’t even deserve to be commented..bender is in the middle of nowhere as a player and we know what can happen with those type of players in the league..specially when they’ve proved nothing before coming..

and..well i guess one of them is being overhype for some reason and the other one is being extremely underrated for i don’t know exactly what reason..

but if bender is considered a top 5 player, there’s absolutely no reason for maker to not be considered a top 10 player..at least..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Skal too! I’ve been thinking the same thing since Thon declared. Labissiere has a completely terrible freshman year at Kentucky displaying terrible feel for and  understanding of the game yet also displaying a high level of skill and potential. I still believe Labissiere will have a productive career yet he has had people raising red flags on him all year. 

Thon Maker may have no measuring stick against good competition but I can almost guarantee if you put Thon in that same position at Kentucky he would have played a lot better than Labissiere. He would at the very least rebound the ball better and play better team defence.

Maker is also a year younger than Labissiere. I just don’t understand why the gap is so large between the two. They are both unproven and if anything Labissiere failed to consistently prove he can produce which is even worse. 

 

 

[kdtriv01Participant]

 Skal, while not having a great year, has the excuse that he had not played in a year before this year.  Skal showed that his has an excellent mid-range game and has an immediate transferrable skill in Shot blocking.  Thon was playing in high school and Bender was barely playing.  

I do agree however that Bender is benefitting greatly from from the unicorn’s (Porzingis) success.  However the comparison is lazy.  

I actually like Maker’s potential.  He could use some seasoning, but if your drafting in the 20’s the risk is worth it.

 

 

 

[kdtriv01Participant]

 Skal, while not having a great year, has the excuse that he had not played in a year before this year.  Skal showed that his has an excellent mid-range game and has an immediate transferrable skill in Shot blocking.  Thon was playing in high school and Bender was barely playing.  

I do agree however that Bender is benefitting greatly from from the unicorn’s (Porzingis) success.  However the comparison is lazy.  

I actually like Maker’s potential.  He could use some seasoning, but if your drafting in the 20’s the risk is worth it.

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Skal too! I’ve been thinking the same thing since Thon declared. Labissiere has a completely terrible freshman year at Kentucky displaying terrible feel for and  understanding of the game yet also displaying a high level of skill and potential. I still believe Labissiere will have a productive career yet he has had people raising red flags on him all year. 

Thon Maker may have no measuring stick against good competition but I can almost guarantee if you put Thon in that same position at Kentucky he would have played a lot better than Labissiere. He would at the very least rebound the ball better and play better team defence.

Maker is also a year younger than Labissiere. I just don’t understand why the gap is so large between the two. They are both unproven and if anything Labissiere failed to consistently prove he can produce which is even worse. 

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

Some things to be mentioned – we don’t know Bender’s measurements. He seemed to still be growing when last measured (summer of 2015) and he may have become slightly more athletic since then or added weight.

Dragan Bender is the youngest player in the draft and will only turn 19 in the second half of December, so he is certainly still developing phisically. 

One of the reasons why people are worried about Maker is because he actually dropped 9 pounds since the last measurements, which is always scary when a player really needs to add weight. 

The main difference between them to me is that Thon Maker is a kind of 2K player with great ball-handling and a jumper, but Dragan Bender has more translatable basketball skills. He is used to not being the first option, he is well-coached and has been playing and practicing against very good players. A year ago he dominated junior competition every way that Maker has this year and maybe more despite being 1.5 years younger. 

Bender seems to be very coachable and to understand his limitations. I do think Maker is a lottery talent, but I would pick Bender first.

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

I think Thon Maker trained to be a different kind of player than what he needed to be. He trained to be Durrant, a SF. He learned how to crossover really well and drive, but he didn’t spend time in the post: where more of his future will be. I think he will put in the time to becoming a complete basketball player and because he works so hard, he’ll figure it out. I actually think intelligence and work ethic are the 2 things that will ensure his success.

[MopgrassParticipant]

I think Thon Maker trained to be a different kind of player than what he needed to be. He trained to be Durrant, a SF. He learned how to crossover really well and drive, but he didn’t spend time in the post: where more of his future will be. I think he will put in the time to becoming a complete basketball player and because he works so hard, he’ll figure it out. I actually think intelligence and work ethic are the 2 things that will ensure his success.

[Anton123Participant]

Some things to be mentioned – we don’t know Bender’s measurements. He seemed to still be growing when last measured (summer of 2015) and he may have become slightly more athletic since then or added weight.

Dragan Bender is the youngest player in the draft and will only turn 19 in the second half of December, so he is certainly still developing phisically. 

One of the reasons why people are worried about Maker is because he actually dropped 9 pounds since the last measurements, which is always scary when a player really needs to add weight. 

The main difference between them to me is that Thon Maker is a kind of 2K player with great ball-handling and a jumper, but Dragan Bender has more translatable basketball skills. He is used to not being the first option, he is well-coached and has been playing and practicing against very good players. A year ago he dominated junior competition every way that Maker has this year and maybe more despite being 1.5 years younger. 

Bender seems to be very coachable and to understand his limitations. I do think Maker is a lottery talent, but I would pick Bender first.

 

[kobyzParticipant]

 Bender is a taller Travis Outlaw…

[kobyzParticipant]

 Bender is a taller Travis Outlaw…

[asmartin626Participant]

 i don’t think Skal or Bender are anywhere near the prospect Thon could be. I had been questioning the same thing ever since he declared.It’s a shame they are rated so high and to see where he is. I believe that will change considerably before draft night. Bender is way overrated and riding the hope of what portzingis did, but is nowhere near as good. And I think we all saw what Skal can do. I don’t see him slipping past mid first, although I hope he ends up on the right team to show his abilities. If I was a gm i wouldn’t let him go past the lottery

[asmartin626Participant]

 i don’t think Skal or Bender are anywhere near the prospect Thon could be. I had been questioning the same thing ever since he declared.It’s a shame they are rated so high and to see where he is. I believe that will change considerably before draft night. Bender is way overrated and riding the hope of what portzingis did, but is nowhere near as good. And I think we all saw what Skal can do. I don’t see him slipping past mid first, although I hope he ends up on the right team to show his abilities. If I was a gm i wouldn’t let him go past the lottery

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

There is a difference in the degree to which they are unknown. Bender is playing sparingly for one of the most successful teams in Europe, albeit one in a down year by their standards (out early in the Euroleague and 2nd in the Israeli regular season). Up and down their roster are pros, mostly successful college players and guys who received a look from the NBA. Even if scouts are forced to watch practice to get more than 15 minutes of a look, it is something. I think it is a stretch for an NBA team to take a guy whose current team clearly thinks he is not ready for the Euroleague as highly as some are projecting, but such is life. With Maker, it is all in one’s mind. He could be fantastic. It could be that if he went to college, his freshman year would resembled Skal, Perry Jones, or any number of other guys whose current ability cannot match their prep hype. You cannot be sure. You are left to assess him on his body, shooting form, and play that comes mostly against overmatches kids. Any team who drafts Skal knows that he is not going to come in and be an immediate savior. Everyone knows he is going to need time. If you draft Maker in the top 10, are people going to know that he probably needs to spend time in the NBDL? Were Jazz and Nuggets fans prepared for the wide spectrum that came with Dante Exum and Emmanuel Mudiay, or were they expecting the hype based off how they did in high school?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

There is a difference in the degree to which they are unknown. Bender is playing sparingly for one of the most successful teams in Europe, albeit one in a down year by their standards (out early in the Euroleague and 2nd in the Israeli regular season). Up and down their roster are pros, mostly successful college players and guys who received a look from the NBA. Even if scouts are forced to watch practice to get more than 15 minutes of a look, it is something. I think it is a stretch for an NBA team to take a guy whose current team clearly thinks he is not ready for the Euroleague as highly as some are projecting, but such is life. With Maker, it is all in one’s mind. He could be fantastic. It could be that if he went to college, his freshman year would resembled Skal, Perry Jones, or any number of other guys whose current ability cannot match their prep hype. You cannot be sure. You are left to assess him on his body, shooting form, and play that comes mostly against overmatches kids. Any team who drafts Skal knows that he is not going to come in and be an immediate savior. Everyone knows he is going to need time. If you draft Maker in the top 10, are people going to know that he probably needs to spend time in the NBDL? Were Jazz and Nuggets fans prepared for the wide spectrum that came with Dante Exum and Emmanuel Mudiay, or were they expecting the hype based off how they did in high school?

[aidenmcdonald25Participant]

 The thing about Thon is that he has been used by the mixtape world and "hyped" in the wrong way. I don’t think we can put Thon Maker in a box and wrap it up and say what he is (especially on the defensive end of the floor). Below are some recent video that actually take live game footage and break his strength and weakness down. It shows him both playing against high level USA and high level Canadian talent. His team last year played Huntington Prep, Oakhill, Findlay Prep, Prolific Prep with Josh Jackson, Hillcrest Academy with Deandre Ayton among other top programs with top players. People always say Bender is playing in Europe against top competition but how often has that translated with all the Europeans that come over to the league. They have had as much fails as kids who go from HS to Pro and as much success. Was Garnett, Tyson Chandler,  Amare,  Kobe, LeBron, or even Shaun Livinston playing against pro’s before they went from hs to Pro. We need to stop with the whole euro thing. Allen Iverson was doing the "eurostep" before Manu! Talent, height, length, and god gifted athleticism will equate to success in the league. I see all of these different scouting tapes coming out on Thon and I wonder what personal vendetta Aran Smith has against Thon Maker. Here are some of those videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3ymkPQyhc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJO8Eue2vI

[aidenmcdonald25Participant]

 The thing about Thon is that he has been used by the mixtape world and "hyped" in the wrong way. I don’t think we can put Thon Maker in a box and wrap it up and say what he is (especially on the defensive end of the floor). Below are some recent video that actually take live game footage and break his strength and weakness down. It shows him both playing against high level USA and high level Canadian talent. His team last year played Huntington Prep, Oakhill, Findlay Prep, Prolific Prep with Josh Jackson, Hillcrest Academy with Deandre Ayton among other top programs with top players. People always say Bender is playing in Europe against top competition but how often has that translated with all the Europeans that come over to the league. They have had as much fails as kids who go from HS to Pro and as much success. Was Garnett, Tyson Chandler,  Amare,  Kobe, LeBron, or even Shaun Livinston playing against pro’s before they went from hs to Pro. We need to stop with the whole euro thing. Allen Iverson was doing the "eurostep" before Manu! Talent, height, length, and god gifted athleticism will equate to success in the league. I see all of these different scouting tapes coming out on Thon and I wonder what personal vendetta Aran Smith has against Thon Maker. Here are some of those videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3ymkPQyhc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJO8Eue2vI

[natevalParticipant]

I don’t see why he shouldn’t be a top pick. KG was 6’11" 215 when he entered the league Porzingis was only 230 at the combine last year plus he has two inches on Thon. Prozingis didn’t really get pushed around all that much, he put together a nice season. 

Not only do I think Thon has a high ceiling I think he has a high floor too. 

 

[natevalParticipant]

I don’t see why he shouldn’t be a top pick. KG was 6’11" 215 when he entered the league Porzingis was only 230 at the combine last year plus he has two inches on Thon. Prozingis didn’t really get pushed around all that much, he put together a nice season. 

Not only do I think Thon has a high ceiling I think he has a high floor too. 

 

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

Bumping up a good topic above all the spams, I would like to say As a Boston fan and having multiple picks, that I absolutely want both. Give me two skillful, talented 7fters and develop them both. I think they can both be great players one day. And I wouldn’t care who develops first or faster.

Boston once drafted 2 Bigs out of HS. One was Kendrick Perkins and the other was Al Jefferson. They both turned out very good. Ainge needs to do this again.

Funny thing is Boston still has six, I said SIX other picks this year alone.

[CU.LIONSParticipant]

Bumping up a good topic above all the spams, I would like to say As a Boston fan and having multiple picks, that I absolutely want both. Give me two skillful, talented 7fters and develop them both. I think they can both be great players one day. And I wouldn’t care who develops first or faster.

Boston once drafted 2 Bigs out of HS. One was Kendrick Perkins and the other was Al Jefferson. They both turned out very good. Ainge needs to do this again.

Funny thing is Boston still has six, I said SIX other picks this year alone.

[Author]

Posts