Dont take Embiid #1
I dont get the hype around Embiid. There is no way I would take him over Parker or Wiggins. He gets compared to Hakeem cuz he did a dream shake one time in game a game against New Mexico this last year. Really? Compare Hakeems college career to Embiids. Not even comparable.
im pretty sure he was getting the Hakeem comparisons before the dream shake.
also, Embiid had a better freshmen season than Hakeem, so idk why you're saying to compare their college careers.
people who give him that comparison, are comparing them at the age of 19. the skillsets they posses and the physcial tools they have. people see alot of similarities.
i really like Embiid. a smooth athlete at 7 foot. great feet, good all around defender, and has shown to have an developing offensive skill set.
Embiid plays NOTHING like hakeem ive always hated this comparison and found it troubling. I say embiid reminds me of tiago splitter. alot of posters here are jumping the gun on the kid and I cant sit for anymore.
Really? Splitter is a defensive big who doesn't block shots. Embiid is already more skilled on offense. Embiid is just way more skilled than Splitter, as well as being a lot longer and more athletic.
So your saying hes athletic as Dr. J and very skilled. Im not buying that sorry man. Splitter is still good and will have a formidable career when its all said and done.
Where did he say he was as Athletic as Dr J? Even though accounting for the natural evolution of the human body it's probably safe to say he is close to the athlete Dr J was, but that is besides the point. All he did was say he is more athletic than Tiago Splitter which is a no brainer. Tiago is already what 29 years old? So no, he won't have a fomidable career when it's all said and done, he will be remembered as what he is now. A Role player on a team that is great because of the system in place.
A handful of people, including Tiago Splitter would take Splitter over Embiid, and that's about it.
Embiids statistics are significantly better than Olajuwon their freshman years. Embiids frosh years and Hakeems's sophomore year are more comparable, except Hakeem averaged 5 blocks as a sophomore.
That's just statistics, their physical profiles are extremely similar, both have "futbol" feet. Lack of experience playing basketball.
If someone says that Embiid will be Olajuwon they will probably be wrong, but it's a good comparison and a fair one at this stage of their development.
Now if you are such a simple minded person that you can't seperate 19 year old Embiid from prime Olajuwon who dominated the league then that is on you.
I think Embiid would be the best prospect in the draft if it wasn't for injury concerns. Guys his size tend to be really injury prone, so him already having health red-flags is a big issue. He still should be a top-3 pick, but you have to add in to evaluation of him the fact that he will probably miss some stretches of time during his career due to injury, the way Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum and many other big men have before him.
That said, Embiid's talent is real. He is no stiff. He has to get stronger, but he is very coordinated for a big man, has great footwork and touch around the basket and is developing a great feel for the game.
It's better to compare him and oden at the same stage. Embiid has everything oden had but his offensive one on one game is more reliable.
Sounds like a top pick to me. But his back scares me. I'm scared of big men with injuries early in their careers. Seems like once they get hurt they never stop.
Embiid is not nearly as dominant of a force as Oden was in college and isn't the presence that Oden was on the defensive end.
I feel like Oden was more of a sure thing (besides the whole injury thing) than Embiid is now. Oden looked a lot stronger as a freshman and looked more ready to bang down low with NBA bigs. Embiid is the smoother athlete, while I feel Oden seemed like a more explosive athlete.
because the story was that he didn't start playing basketball until late, and he initially started learning by watching a Hakeem video. So he modeled his game early based on Hakeem based on the resources he had available.
I can't stop laughing about how a guy is getting negged for saying Embiid is not Hakeem.
Just remember - 90% of this board is people who probably didn't see Hakeem or saw just a little bit of him.
Embiid is still very raw offensively, and this whole "Him at 19 vs Hakeem at 19" is not even close to fair. In the 80s, players developed at a different rate than they do now. Now, plays are 21 and already stars.
Potential is fine, but I would say Embiid's absolute best case scenario still is not going to be Hakeem.
He's also got back concerns, and I think the premise that Parker and Wiggins are safer picks is totally fair.
I think he got negged for acting like it was one post move that got him compared to Hakeem and that Wiggins and Parker are way more talented. I agree that Embiid is a riskier pick than Wiggins and Parker, but the idea that Embiid is some flash in the pan who lacks talent is a strange misconception. He didn't get hyped because of one game.
I think he's getting negged more for saying not to draft Embiid #1, I think teams should definitely consider Embid for the number 1 pick.
I just think you have to pick Parker. He was comsistent all year long and scrored every type of way. I dont get why he he gets knocked about his athlectism. Seen him do between a legs dunks couple times on youtube. Not saying that makes you avgood basketball player. I think if u have the #1 pick and given how many bigs in the last couple years have been bust and injured like Oden,thabeet,Bynum u stay away from Embiid. He missed the end of the season for Kansas with a back injury. Thats a big red flag for a 7footer.
I think Embiid is the best in terms of potential/talent. My question is: isn't a center's value at an all-time low? Considering today's game hinges on outside shooting, spreading the floor, and moving the ball quickly... hasn't the center position lost a lot of value?
Coaches now want to keep the ball out of the post because it slows the pace of the game. So they don't give centers the ball. Instead, they want rim protectors and centers who can shoot outside... two things Embiid can likely do. But there might be coaches out there who prefer Nerlens Noel because he probably blocks shots a little better and they might not care bout the offense a center brings.
So, if Embiid is the best player/prospect, do you take him 1st?
I agree with you to an extent about the center position value being an all time low, but not really because coaches are wanting to player more quickly. It's mostly due to the ability for teams to play zone defense now. They can pack the paint send 2 or 3 defenders very easily without having to sacrafice guarding the perimeter. Yeah teams like to run more but nobody runs with 5 guys on the break anyways, a team that runs a lot and has a big defensive anchor isn't a bad thing. I think it's mostly how easy it is to stop offensive big men on defense.
With that being said, Embiid is one of the few young big men I have ever seen who handles a double team well, especially given how much experience he has, it really is remarkeable. He dribbles away from the double team looking to find the open man. Coaches try to teach this but some just never grasp it, *cough* Dwight Howard *cough*.
I don't disagree with most of that. But on offense, things need to develop.
When one post up guy sits with the ball, it's harder to keep things moving, getting players open. One reason there's been such an emphasis on PG's is that when they drive, it opens things up, splitting the court. It draws quick attention and guys on defense make mistakes or get confused on who they're covering and a PG can take advantage.
There isn't a lot of tricking the defense when some post up guy slowly works his way in. The defense isn't going to make too many mistakes. It's just a one on one game at that point.
D'Antoni said that in the post fewer points per possession are scored (despite the better shooting percentages). I think that's worthy of note.
I'm not saying that the stock of centers should be as low as it is or that we should stay away from players posting up, but it just seems like that's the direction the league is going.
I guess what i meant to say was i just dont see the similarities in their games. I grew up watching Hakeem and remember how fast and mobile he was. The one post move was the only thing that reminded me of Hakeem. I feally hope Embiid doesnt get bogged down with injuries cuz he could be really good
Embiid certainly has the potential to be a great player, but don't be so soon to forget how great Hakeem was.
Hakeem in his prime was a threat to lead the league in scoring, rebounds, steals, and blocks. He had the best footwork in history and is the all-time leader in blocks.
Please remember what Embiid would have to live up to in order to be Hakeem.
The way to win a title since the 90's has been either have two superstar wings, or get a top flight center and put shooters around him. Shaq, Timmy, and Hakeem have won a bunch of titles that way. Dwight Howard made a Finals surrounded by shooters.
If Wiggins or Parker isn't the next LeBron, Jordan, or Kobe, then go after a great center prospect.
I absolutely hate when people are so quick to tear down a best case scenario like this. I understand that not every player should be compared to an all-time great, but basketball goes on and there are going to be more Hall of Fame players. Period. This means that eventually there are going to be players that come along who play similarly to Hall of Fame players or at least provide similar statistics (excluding Wilt's stats). Now with this draft, there are more possibilities than most years because there are just a bunch of talented youngsters who have those superstar qualities that teams crave, but I think it's absolutely fair to have Hakeem Olajuwon as a best case scenario for Joel Embiid. I can't remember seeing a 7 foot big man who plays as fluidly and smooth as Embiid in the roughly 15 years that I've followed basketball. This is also a trait that The Dream had. At this point in their careers, they also have pretty similar post games as well. Both had also proven that they had elite shot blocking ability as well. If Joel Embiid's best case scenario isn't Hakeem Olajuwon, then I don't think we're ever going to someone with the natural talent and fluidity that Hakeem possessed.
He's an amazing prospect and the hype surrounding him is understandable. There aren't very many young big men with his size, length, fluidity, athleticism, feet and hands...
Throw in the fact this kid has only been playing basketball since like 2011... His upside is through the roof. When you imagine what this kid could be in a few years, it's scary. He has more upside than Andrew Wiggins in my opinion.
He should definitely be considered for the #1 pick. I think Boston would be a great landing spot for him.
If Embiid has a clear bill of health, he should be the #1 pick.
He was the only player in college basketball that made teams completely flip out when he stepped on the court. He changed the game, and he has the potential to do the same in the NBA with his continued growth. He earned a starting spot a couple games into his NCAA career, was warranting double and triple teams by Jan, and adapted in a shockingly quick manner.
Health is big, I get that, but the guy was a 3 star recruit a year and a half ago, who had a glaring weakness of a lack of rim protection. A year and a half later, he reigns the Big 12 DPOTY, blocked over double the shots per game at a vastly higher level of play, and proved to be a dynamic force despite his raw nature.
You pick him 1 if he's healthy, if he has questions he's still worth a top 5 pick.
Philly Fan. If I am supposed to rely on our Medical Staff, the same one who cleared Andrew Bynum, I am afraid, very afraid
I get it, I'd be nervous too. lol It really is a shame this whole back thing popped up, because Joel was improving so rapidly before then. I'm just optimistic a few months of no contact has given him time to heal up. The back is a big factor, but this guy could be something special.
The back to the basket game maybe not as prominant, but a 7 footer who is as fast as him could really do some damage. The days of lumbering bigs camping in the lane and shooting back to the basket hook shots are one thing, but Joel Embiid is another.
I get it, though, Noel and Joel's potential together could be sky high or it could be a string of 35-40 games played seasons.
i think the only thing that is holding him back is his back issues. it will depend on the doctors evaluating his body and seeing if it can go the distance.
he would be my 1a option in thisdraft next to Wiggins if healthy..
I mean if he could participate in thencombine he would have been benefited..watching him now and in HS it seems he has gone bigger and even tallet I guess..
What if the team with the pick measures him something like 7'1 255lbs with like 7'6 winspan..adding his footworkand overall athleticism, defensive potential, and potential of brilliance in the post offensivelly.. That's just too much and even WIggins would have to do something jaw dropping to be picked ahead of his teammate..
just hope he will be 100% healthy
I don't personally like the Hakeem comparision as very few people on here will be able to remember what Hakeem was like as a college prospect. I recall he red-shirted during his rookie year. I'd say that Hakeem when he was drafted was a much more sure thing than Embiid is now but he was a couple of years older.
Tiago Splitter was considered a possible top 5 pick if he had declared in 2005 or 2006 and has played way better than a guy drafted at 28 is probably expected to do. But I don't see any comparision to his game and Embiid's really.
Bigs were always much more sought after in the draft but since 2008 there seems to have been a shift away from it even when there were talented bigs in the draft.
Any team who gets a shot at drafting Embiid will have a very close look at his back issues and take informed medical judgement I would assume and if they think there is a risk I could see them turning to Parker or Wiggins instead. With Parker and Wiggins also in the top 3, there are immediate alternatives to Embiid if his back is a red flag issue.
Personally I still have Embiid as No 1 on my potential mock draft and I hope that he will not have major injury issues during his NBA career and we can see a new star big man emerge.
I like i said when i first created this post, dont take Embiid. Stress fracture yet another injury and hasnt yet played a nba game
Aran put him on top of his mocks and all the sheep did follow. Aran drops him down, same thing....