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Does Lebron Really make players around him better?

mouchy18
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Does Lebron Really make players around him better?

A lot of people would suggest Lebron makes his teammates better as evidence of his great assist numbers. But when you really dissect his teammates numbers they would suggest otherwise. It seems every big time scorer that has played with Lebron has seen a decrease in production their first year playing with Lebron. Example

Pre Lebron with Lebron

Ricky Davis 20ppg 15ppg
Dajuan Wagner 13ppg 6ppg
Ilgauskas 17ppg 15ppg
Larry Hughes 22 15ppg
Mo Willams 17ppg 6as 17ppg 4ass
Shaq 17.8ppg 11ppg
Anthony Parker 10ppg 7ppg
Jamison 20ppg 15ppg
West 12ppg 10ppg

Now These numbers can be attributed to injury or role on the new team...but no one player has ever had a spike in production playing with Lebron...

Do you believe Lebron is a one man show? or Does he really elevate the play of the team?


IndianaBasketball
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Just like Iverson before him

Just like Iverson before him and Dwayne Wade... LeBron is a ball dominant player. Majority of those players on your list are wing players, which whom are directly affected when they have a ball dominant player as a teammate. It happened to Stackhouse and Hughes when they played with Iverson. It's happening to Michael Beasley right now in Miami.

You need to surround ball dominant players with specific players in order to be successful. Catch and shoot guys... Pick and pop guys. You basically have to surround them with high energy, defensive and high quality role players...

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As soon as Jamison got traded

As soon as Jamison got traded to Cleveland I thought what a stupid trade.It just doesnt fit how can you have the very unorthadox, and spiradic Antwaan Jamison play with Lebron James who needs structured players around him to be successful.

Cleveland all this time has been looking for another Allstar to play with Lebron but all they needed was solid defenders, great 3point shooters and good role players.

They should have taken a look at Orlando's basketball team.Thats how you make a team you find your building block and build around him.

NYK2010
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You expect them to increase

You expect them to increase when they play next to a 30 a game scorer.
Mo William is a PG he's not supposed to score 20 esp. playing next to Lebron and Jamison now.
All of those guys except for Shaq are coming from losing teams where they scored more.
You forgot to include the minutes and fga that would help in seeing how much a part of the offense they are now.

IknoBall12
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i agree 2 a certain extent

about your comment but lets be honest mo williams is not a point guard. hes a 2 guard in a point guards body. Mo has been a scorer since he entered the nba.

mouchy18
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NYK Mo Williams is exactly my

NYK Mo Williams is exactly my point. He is a PG & his assist which i pointed out have gone down each yr....Now some of these guys are proven players....so because Lebron is a 30ppg scorcer their is no room for anyone else to be productive? That defeats the point of him being able to elevate the play of those around him doesn't it

NYK2010
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Cavs improved the roster from

Cavs improved the roster from last year but its the coach and system they need to change.
They don't have enough guys who penetrate outside of Lebron and Mo Williams.
Both Mo Williams and West are more SG's and obviously undersized at that.
Not sure what team your looking at but they are a 3 pt shooting team that plays well on D or they did before this series.
Jamison was a no brainer would u rather have Varajeo or Hickson starting neither can shoot the 3 or have the offensive skill set that Jamison has. Garnett would just play off of them and wait for penetraters.
Once again if you don't run your helping out the older Celtics team allowing them to set up their defense. Rondo is great with his steals, KG and Perkins have the size and shot blocking ability the Cavs are playing right into the Celtics hands by not running. They blew it Game 4 mostly in the 4th qtr not playing Shaq becaz he had 5 fouls was stupid they have no shot blocking or much of an inside post up game without him.

IndianaBasketball
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Mo Williams isn't more of a

Mo Williams isn't more of a shooting guard. He's a scoring point. He's been a point guard his whole life. He was in high school. He was at Alabama. He was in Utah and Milwaukee.

Cleveland needs to allow more players to do more and stop being so predictable. I've been saying the whole season that LeBron's isolations won't work against great teams. The Celtics defense is putting on a clinic. They need to find more ways, easier ways, to get LeBron the ball and either score or get the ball to his teammates. They also need to run more. They play too slow, which plays right into the hands of an older Celtics team.

They also need to start defending better. Rondo is destroying Mo and KG is destroying Jamison. Mo has just be a bum on defense this series.

NYK2010
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Your play isn't just measured

Your play isn't just measured with your scoring look at the teams success.
Everyone forgets he took his team to the Finals with Pavlovic, Varajeo, Gooden, Eric Snow and Big Z as the key players around him and almost beat the Celtics 2 years ago.
If you want to knock him for last year's loss to Orlando though i'm not sure what else he could've done go ahead.
This series yeah he definately takes a big hit he bailed them out in Game 1 and dominated Game 3.
He hasn't done it the other games, frankly their lucky to be in this series being outplayed in 4 of the 5 games so far.

I don't think you can say Lebron doesn't improve the players around him he's a skilled passer and their PG for most of the time. Thats a big problem I have with the team, let Mo play the point and have Lebron off the ball a lot more.
This team takes way too many jump shots and they don't have a Reggie Miller, Ray Allen type shooter on the team team.

Game 5 they were beat in every aspect of the game especially in the 2nd half.
If Rondo, Allen, Garnett and the Celtics bench easily outplay Mo Williams, West, Jamison and the Cavs bench I don't see how the Cavs will win. Both Lebron and Shaq have to dominate than for the Cavs to win.
I never bought into Mo Williams being a choke artist but he has been the last 2 years in the playoffs.
So far in this series 3 of 15 on 3 pt shots that won't get it done esp. with his horrible defense on Rondo.
I don't see the coach making adjustments so unless Lebron goes off like he did in Game 3 they won't win Game 6.
Lebron will also take a step back in pplz eyes this being his worst series since the 2007 Finals against the Spurs.
You might not think he's the King or a great closer but I don't think you can say he doesn't make his teammates better.

mikeyvthedon
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LeBron

Does make players better, and makes things a lot easier for his team mates. While you are showing all of those players scoring declined, the one thing you are not showing is their role on terrible to mediocre teams beforehand. In some cases, players average a lot of points on bad teams, and these players are probably taking a role on offense that they should not have. LeBron's teams win more games than even Iverson's did, and have been in as many championships as AI's were in. This is not excusing LeBron's strange and somewhat disheartening performance in this past play-off series, but to say he does not make his team mates better is the wrong way to go. With all of the players you listed, is their one other than Shaq that you might say is even comparable as a sidekick to what Michael Jordan had in Scottie Pippen (and this is during a players prime, that is the only reason I even mention Shaq. Young Shaq+LeBron=Dynasty. But, even Antawn Jamison, in his best days, was not even close to Scottie in numerous ways, defense being one. Scottie would win his match-ups against pretty much every team the Bulls ever played, usually dominate. KG is dominating Jamison, like, beasting). Now I think it is past the point of excuses for LeBron, considering that he isn't averaged 35 per game against the Celtics as he did against the Magic (though he got over 35 in both wins, but you get my point). If LeBron is not destroying the Celtics, as people thought he would at will, than the Cavaliers were not going to win the series unless a good number of players played above their potential. As usual, LeBron's team mates are not doing this, and now, even LeBron is not exceeding or living up to the expectations we have of him. Not to mention, in the past two games, to me he has looked reserved and hesitant to take the game upon himself, which is when the Cavs are at their best. It just seems like he has had the life sucked out of him since after Game 3, and I do not think any elbow or any excuse is valid at this point. If you are playing, than you are open to criticism, and you need to take it upon yourself. He again had the best record in the regular season and was the MVP, and I do not think you can argue that he has deserved these awards in the regular season. However, since Game 3, it seems like he is falling back into the old labels given to him every time he has a shortcoming, and it is very disheartening to think that his best team yet (Yes, this team is the best one he has ever had, much better than last years group, on both ends of the court and much more depth/better match-ups defensively. I could break it down more, but these guys are way better than last year) could be going out in the second round to a Celtic team that had its share of questions and inconsistency. I do not think this series is over yet, I guess I hold out hope for a turn around, but if it is, than LeBron will definitely be questioned, just as every other great player who tries to emulate the best players in the game and their winning candor. Greatness is usually defined by not only individual achievement (MVPs, scoring titles, All-NBA/Defense teams, All-Star Games), but by winning. If LeBron does not win rings, than it is hard to rate him higher than the greats who he so badly wants to be compared to. For someone who had hopes for LeBron being one of the best players of All-Time, him not winning this year would leave me to believe he still has a long way to go.

mouchy18
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NYK

Yes thats True, he has not had a Scottie like talent but that does not excuse the impact he should have on his Teamates play...A great player can make his teamates better without having great assist or dominating the ball. Duncan, Jordan, etc are players who made team mates better by absorbing double teams and allowing others to do work. I blame this on the media & organization though...The media has made him out to be this magic johnson on roids type player when hi is not...and the organization has not givien him a coach with balls enough to put him in a system and allow the others to play to their potential.

I think their is a group of fans out there waiting to see Lebron fall flat on his face...He has recieved this credit without the ultimate prize. This Era is crazy when you look back at it. Between Lebron & Nash you have 4mvps 0 rings...Between Kobe & Shaq they have 2mvps 4 rings each! (8) I don't see Lebron ever winning a ring Averaging 30 8, 8 & thats a shame

Anton123
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He sure makes Hickson better

He sure makes Hickson better lol. He makes bad players better and better players worse. The better players need to have the ball in their hands, they just can't only play off feeds

DNYCE
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Hell No

Lehype is nothing but a stat padding loser, his teammates are getting the blame after he goes 3-14? Lehype can never lose. Lehype is an overrated defender, his jumper is broke when contested, he has no back to the basket game, and he is bonafide choker, by the way this guy is selfish and players become better when they leave (shannon brown, carlos boozer).

DNYCE
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how did I forget to mention

I forgot to mention the fact that Lechoke plays against inferior sized players on a nightly basis. When tony allen and ray allen guard lechoke that is comparable to monta ellis, delonte west, or russell westbrook guarding Kobe. Kobe would go to work and put on a clinic

SmooveKRYPT
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I only have 1 thing to say on

I only have 1 thing to say on this...LeBron took a lineup of Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, Anderson Varejao, and Big Z to the finals. if thats not making the guys around you better then idk what is.

the I in win
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the only major drop i see is

the only major drop i see is dajuan wagner and he had that colon disease that slowed him down, not lebron. Jamison would be better if he would knock down some free throws.

IknoBall12
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good topic

but yea i think the reason lebron hears that and gets the numbers he does is becuz like many have said he is ball dominant. They say the same about deron williams chris paul dwyane wade etc. Those guys have the ball in their hands all the time so of course they will get assist and so called make their teams better.

DNYCE
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U Haters never quit lol

U Haters never quit lol

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