[festar35Participant]

AJ Price has been playing really well in the preseason so far do you think there is anyway he could compete for that starting job with Collison? Or could he even play some minutes at SG as he seems to be a good scoring guard?

[OrangeJuiceJonesParticipant]

 The Pacers said that they wanted to run more often, and Collison is a much better PG in a run-and-gun offense than Price. He’d be best in a "scoring punch off the bench" situation.

[llperez]

seriously doubt it. I havent seen their preseason games so far, but in 3 games so far price has a total of 2 assists, even though he is shooting and scoring better then DC.

[SupParticipant]

Collison has looked like trash. However I do agree with the fact that AJ needs more assist.
Pacers have a shaky team. However I would play

1. AJ
2. Dunleavy
3. Granger (overrated)
4. Anyone but Hansboro
5. Hibbert

[bkballerParticipant]

maybe people jumped the gun on crowning Collison as a special player… he has to prove that on a new team first.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

No, there isn’t a competition for the starting job. Collison will be the starter and Price will back him up.

Jim O’Brien played Earl Watson and Price together at times during last season, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Collison and Price on the floor together this season.

On another note… Collison is still learning and adjusting to the offense that O’Brien runs. It’s a completely different offense than what Collison ran in New Orleans. The guard doesn’t have the ball as much. He’ll be fine.

[PlatypusParticipant]

 why would you start Dunleavey Jr at the 2 all he can do is shoot, he’s not athletic enough to guard the 2’s, he’s not even athletic enough to guard good 3’s

[SupParticipant]

I’m not saying he’ll make an all NBA team, but dunleavy is the only player on the team that can shoot and is tall enough to play the position. B. Rush is a no show thus far in his nba career. So defense would have to suffer.

[festar35Participant]

I still think Dahntay Jones is a good choice to start at SG. He will always give you defense and he showed last season he can score when given minutes.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’d start Rush at shooting guard.

He’s the most well-rounded of the shooting guards we have. Dunleavy Jr. is a good offensive player, but isn’t a good defender. Jones is a great defender and while he showed he could score better than people thought at the beginning of last season, he took a lot of ill-advised shots.

Rush is a good defender and understands his role offensively. He shot over 41% from three-point last season.

I think Rush, Dunleavy Jr. and Jones are all candidates to be traded though.

[hiphopismylifeParticipant]

Yeah it will take alot more than a bad preseason for Collison to lose the job. Fair or unfair. He played too well last season.

[SupParticipant]

AJ is fresh off surgery, and he probably has one of the best point/minutes ratios of the pre season. When his knee is 100% it should get interesting. In all fairness though, Collison is coming off an injury on his shooting hand. And Lance can’t be forgotten, his size gives him an advantage on both of them.

[stanford hoops]

From what I’ve read lance defense has been good awful in camp

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Dunleavy is certainly athletic enough to guard 2’s.  He use to start games at PG occasionally in Golden State.  Dunleavy is just not a good defender.  They might as well start Paul George at 2 guard and get the future together.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

George is further along than Stephenson at this point, but he isn’t ready to start either. I don’t think George will start the season in the regular rotation.

Stephenson is a terrible defender, but he’s working hard at it… He has the physical tools. I think it’s just focus and attention to detail.

[JNixonParticipant]

Lance Stephenson is playing bad D? He played strong D at Cincy and in the Summer League. I want to see him play this horrible D that y’all speak of.

Also, I said that Collison would fit best as a true backup PG, unless he’s put in a situation with a bunchelite players. He put up numbers when Paul was out of the lineup, but New Orleans sucked a bit more when he was starting and he’s not really a great fit for the system Indy runs, as he’s not the kind of shooter to play off the ball as much as he will have to for them. He will once again but up numbers, but I’m willing to bet they will be as empty and meaningless as they were for the Hornets.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

The report out of training camp is that O’Brien had to move Stephenson to the two because he kept giving up too much dribble penetration to Collison and Price. And since he’s been at the two, he’s struggled defending off of the ball and playing defense within the team concept.

[llperez]

whats with this empty and meanignless numbers talk? Is it all his fault they didnt win? Or do you honestly think he had minnimal impact on games and was just out there? I saw defenses focusing on him. I saw him taking guys off the dribble in close games that they did win. There was nothing meaningless about how he played last year.

[JNixonParticipant]

They were a .500 team when Chris Paul played. That is no secret. You have to think his stats were largely empty playing on a team that was losing a bunch of games with him at the helm getting those numbers, and another PG make the same team a playoff team.

I understand you like him and everything, but putting up 18 ppg and 9 apg he put on a garbage team and putting up the 18 and 10 apg that CP3 did on a team that was .500 are 2 different things and those stats were largely garbage time numbers. He’s good, but he’s not great. He’s an average PG to me.

[llperez]

well .500 wasnt close to getting to the playoffs in the west last year. Also keep in mind that paul had a top notch backup helping him win games. I dont even remember who DC’s backup pg was last year when paul went down. And maybe i am overrating dc a little. We’ll see soon enough.

Becasue i havent seen the 3 pacer preseason games thus far, has dc honestly looked bad? His numbers are 11ppg…3apg and some poor shooting in 24 minutes. But for those who have watched, does he look like hes struggling?

[JNixonParticipant]

"well .500 wasnt close to getting to the playoffs in the west last year. Also keep in mind that paul had a top notch backup helping him win games."

You’re missing the point. They sucked worse and were non-competitive when Collison was the point. Paul had them at .500, but that was 45 games in. They were right in the playoff race when Paul was the PG. And Collison averaged around 5 ppg and 2.5 apg when Paul was in the lineup. He wasn’t exactly playing like a "top-notch backup" when Paul was playing.

[llperez]

im not missing the point. Im aware they were better with paul. Thats not exactly a knock on a guy who was a rookie to be less effective then chris paul. And yes, he was one of the best backup pg’s out there. I dont care how bad the team was, how many backup pg’s can go into the starting lineup and get 18-9? Watching them play, i think dc was more valuable to the team then even david west when dc was the starter. DC was dissecting defenses and he was the reason they were even in lots of those games. Look at the perimiter of morris petersen, james posey, marcus thornton and whoever else played on the wing for them, dc not wining in a stacked west with that lineup on the wing with him isnt enough reason for me to say he couldnt be a leader on a winning team just like i wouldnt hold tyreke evans lack of team succes against him. Plus i already admitted that maybe i am overrating him, we will have to see though. Ill be willing to admit if i am wrong and he struggles and looks like nothing more then a backup like you suggest.

[JNixonParticipant]

It’s not as much a knock on him that he wasn’t as good as Chris Paul as it is that his stats were clearly padded. It’s no different than Mike James putting up 20 ppg on the Raptors that year, or when Zach Randolph used to get 20-10 on teams that never made the playoffs. Why brag about him being more valuable than another player on a losing team? Tyreke Evans’ stats were padded too. As were Stephen Curry’s. I don’t know why you aren’t holding that against them. Maybe you just don’t want to feel as bad about Collison’s padded stats, but it’s not as hard as you may think it is to put up big stats in the NBA when your team sucks, especially if you are looked at as a guy who’s trying to be developed. Collison was a 4 year player and extremely NBA ready, so he was able to put up more advanced stats than the usual rookie that’s put on the spot like him. But he’s not anything special as a long-term player, and his season last year shouldn’t be looked at in a light like he really accomplished that much. But all he basically did was put up numbers in the stat book, and not get wins.

[llperez]

it is different then mike james though becasue mike james had been in the nba forever and had never done anything except one year on a bad team. We cant put a rookie who hasnt had time to prove himself in the same boat as mike james. And mike james did NOTHING but score points so 20 points from him is not that big a deal. DC actually plays defense and gets his teammates easy buckets and plays like a natural pg. And the fact you are throwing zach randolph and tyreke evans into this as guys who had padded stats is a serious flaw in your argument becasue any fan should be able to see those guys are legit players who can help teams win and get stats. Are you honestly saying that anybody who plays on a bad team cant have their stats taken seriously?

And why not compare his value to david west? West has been an all-star on playoff teams. He is proven himself in the nba. Comparing the impact those two had while playing together is very valid.

And what does collison playing 4 years have to do with anything? Were talking about how well he played last year and how well we expect him play next year. Lots of guys who went to college for 4 years get better and dont just peak as rookies. And i dont agree with your last quote at all about all he did was put up stats and not get wins. Watching him play, he performed. Many players play on bad teams as rookies. You cant put too much into team success when evaluating rookies or any player for that matter. You have to watch and see what they are doing out there on the court and how they are playing and how their game translates to being on a winner and look past numbers. I liked everything i saw from dc and there is a reason so many people are excited about him and talked all summer about what the hornets could get for him and why he made 1st team rookie.

[JNixonParticipant]

Why do you think David West was an All-Star? Because he played with Chris Paul and was on good teams.

It’s different than Mike James in some ways because him and Collison arent the same person, but the main idea is the same. Both put up big numbers on a weak team. You have to look at padded numbers on a bad team in a different light than you would on a good team. Collison wouldn’t have put up 18 ppg and 9 apg on a playoff team last year. I watched him play last year. I watched the Hornets play a bunch of times. There are a good number of PG’s in the NBA that could produce big numbers on garbage teams with a bunch of freedom like Collison did.

Him being in college 4 years has to do with exactly what I said "Collison was a 4 year player and extremely NBA ready, so he was able to put up more advanced stats than the usual rookie that’s put on the spot like him. But he’s not anything special as a long-term player." He was ready to play more than most were, so he put up "more" padded stats than the usual rookie would. He’s not a high upside player really at all.

"Are you honestly saying that anybody who plays on a bad team cant have their stats taken seriously?"

They can be taken seriously, but you have to realize when to know that they are padded. Tyreke Evans wouldn’t have put up 20 ppg, 5 rpg, and 5 apg playing for the Bucks, or for any playoff team in the NBA last year. Darren Collison isn’t a true 18 ppg and 9 apg player on a good team. Just because you like UCLA doesn’t mean that Darren Collison’s numbers last year were legit. Because they weren’t.

 

[stanford hoops]

I know is allot of teams were trying to get dc after watching how well he played as a starter. They must have seen something in him. The kid is very very good and should get better. I think Roy was a four year guy who got better and there are others. There are also four year guys who don’t get better. Dc was a very good upside and I’m interested in seeing what he’s gonna do. PreSeason is exactly that. Preseason. He has zero comp as a starter

yea all reports state lance is sucking on defense. This isn’t college or summer leauge. It’s alot harder now going against real NBA players

[llperez]

well, you were making some good points until you brought up that im a ucla fan. Who im a fan of has nothing to do with anything that is being discussed. Are you gonna pull the im being a fanboy card on this?

And i never said he would get 18-9 on any team, let alone a playoff team. I expect maybe something like 16-8 this year as well as solid defense. I think he will have a very solid season and career as a starting pg.

We can go back and forth over stats all day and how much they mean on bad teams, but the fact is, as i have been saying throughout, im not basing my pro dc argument strictly on stats. Im basing off of having watched him play. I liked what i saw and i do think it translates and i do think he will be a very good starting pg for many years. If you disagree with that, then there’s really not much more we can say on the issue. We’ll just have to wait and see.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 I heard somebody say they moved Lance back to SG because he couldn’t keep Guard Collison.  Did they seriously think he was a PG who would be able to guard Collison that is like saying they moved somebody back to Linebacker because he couldn’t guard the Wide Receivers.  Lance Stephenson is a wing man who could be either a point forward or a ball dominant shooting guard.  But he is not ready to guard somebody like Darren Collison.

And Collison isn’t the best fit for Indiana if they play to run their offense thru Hibbert and McRoberts, both great passing big mens.  But Collisons numbers were far from inflated last year.  He played in a tough conference and balled his heart out.  

Collison doesn’t have a huge ceiling but it isn’t low.  He could be a 17 and 10 guy in his prime with 2 steals.

Most likely 15 and 8.

[Author]

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