Do you see Minnesota trading their lottery pick this year?
They have the #3 pick in the draft so far, and will most likely stay with a top 5 pick. With already a good 3 in Beasley, a great 4 in K-love, Darko not being that bad as a starter and Rubio on his way there next year (according to David Kahn). Their only holes are SG and C. The best SG in this draft is Alec Burks or Jordan Hamilton but neither are a top 5 pick. The best Center in this draft is Enes Kanter and him and Love I think would be a pretty good combo down low, but since Kahn has such unbelievable confidence in Darko, I am doubting that Kahn would pick him. They could go with Perry Jones based on pure potential but I honestly don't see him being a top 5 pick either. Maybe at 5 but even then its a risk, and I think he's a bust.
The only possible selections for Minny are Enes Kanter and Perry Jones, but I could see the Twolves selecting neither. What will they do with their top 5 pick?
Why would they draft Perry Jones anyway when they already have Beasley? If your saying he could play shooting guard that is crazy at 6-11 he is way too tall for it and he doesn't have the skill to play it. Otherwise I agree with you, the way I see it is Minnesota has two options:
Draft Enes Kanter with the 2nd-5th pick
Trade down for a player and a later lottery pick
Love and Kanter would be an awesome front-court for the future of the Timberwolves. Wesley Johnson is their shooting guard of the future I think so I don't think they will be drafting a shooting guard either unless for a back-up. If they get the first pick I think they have to pick Kyrie Irving and possibly trade him or more likely Rubio for some future assets like a center. Also note that they could also pick Jonas Valanciunas with their top five pick, he is a center and he has been projected to go in the top ten and even the top five for some he is my darkhorse pick for Minnesota. All in all if they keep their pick I see them drafting either Kanter or Valanciunas, unless they get the #1 pick in that case they should draft Irving.
I never said Perry Jones could play the 2 guard. That is ridiculous. Probably a 3 or a 4. Because he is a high risk/high reward player I think he will be selected purely on potential. By this statement he could go to Minnesota as well as to any team.
Minnesota is by far the toughest team to do a mock draft for especially with David Kahn as their. I absolutely hate all this uncertainty surrounding Kahn and Rubio, and I really hate the fact that Kahn is so unrealistic. Do us all a favor, Wolves, and get a new GM, please.
Kahn is probably stupid enough to do it...
I know ward, I said IF your saying he can play shooting guard. I agree they are the hardest to mock just because of the uncertainly of David Kahn who knows what he is going to do. He really shocked/surprised me when he draft both Rubio and Flynn with the 5th-6th picks when he could have gotten Rubio and a nice wing player to go with him like DeRozan.
Nah, they need more young talent...no point in trading for a vet since this team isn't going anywhere any time soon. Unless they can get young nba talent for that pick.
"If your saying he could play shooting guard that is crazy at 6-11 he is way too tall for it and he doesn't have the skill to play it"
Going into the draft as a 6'11'' player the only prospect I had viewed who was capable of palying the 2 if he really worked more on it was Jonathan Bender. Perry Jones reminds me of Bender but he does not have the shot that Bender had.
the wolves need a center. no doubt about it. take kanter or kyrie irving if available. doesnt matter if rubio is coming over irving is a cant miss guy. perry jones would be awful. doesnt make any sense and hasnt done anything to warrant being selected in the top 10. beasley needs to work on his d to stay here long term but if we add a center and a pg next year we'll be 10-15 games better, and thats with out using our trade exception to go get a vet. or using the mid level in free angency. we've shown we can score points and rebound. its all about fixing our interior d and not having so many turnovers to give ourselves a shot late in games. keep at least the first pick and possibly package the 2nd one from memphis in a deal to get someone. wes johnson has shown he can be our sg, but for depth i say try and find a guy like tony allen or raja bell who can play some lock down d and come off our god awful bench.
Faried would be nice for Minnesota. Obviously he is not worth that high of a pick but since Love is such a terrible defender Faried would be nice to bring off the bench. Trading down and landing him wouldn't be so bad. If they end up keeping their top 5 pick I say go irving or Kanter.
yeah not sure how good faried is gonna be in the nba, but theyre comparing him to rodman. our interior d needs a lot of help. k love is often in the wrong spot or doesnt have the quickness or ups to play the big guys like duncan, dirk, kg, etc.
A smart team would either draft Kanter or Perry Jones if given the oppurtunity. Drafting Jones would give Minnesota the defensive presence they need for another forward. He can start at SF over Beasley and turn Beasley into a versatile instant offense guy off the bench. Beasley is not a good starter because he cannot defender starter calibur wings. If he comes off the bench he will be fresher against those tired wings or have an advantage against less talented wings. Randolph would provide the length needed to compliment Loves lack of help defending, and Milicicès lack of explosiveness. Johnson could take a next step forward offensively.
Kanter would be the best pick thou I want the Raps to take him. I think kanter is the best prospect in this draft since he plays Center. Not many Centers in the entire league and in a draft with so much uncertainty I would want to get a Center.
For my T-Wolves here are draft scenarios I wish for in no particular order...
Draft Kanter- Adding a physical center is still a necessity. I like Darko, but Kanter could and should be a monumental upgrade.
Draft Irving- If Rubio isn't coming over or we look to trade him and/or Flynn, PG is still a relative need. Irving is a special player and I'd hate to pass on him only to end up waiting for Rubio or he ends up not being what he is advertised as. I want to keep Ridnour the most though. He is a solid PG and has been gettin the job done this season with Flynn's short-comings.
Trade down and draft Jimmer: I love Wes Johnson but he is more of a SF than SG IMO. We still need a great shooter who can play off the ball and fit in the triangle. I think Jimmer would be a perfect fit for that need.
Trade down and draft Faried: We despartely need help on D. Faried could be the next greater defender and I wouldn't be upset going after him particularly after trading away arguably our best defender in C-Brew.
Trade the pick for future picks or a young SG capable of being a starter.
I think if Minny can not get Irving, they should trade their pick and Flynn to get some vets. They have the young guys but they need vets. They also need time for their young players to develop.
I don't like it when teams forfit their draft picks but I could see Minnesota doing that this year. Since he is so sure about Rubio coming over and Darko being the next "great" center. Who knows what other unrealistic comparisons he has for the players on his team.
I know this thread wont solve the problem most of us have when doing a mock draft for Minnesota but I just think it is so funny that David Kahn is unrealistic. It will be very interesting to see what he does with Minny's lottery pick this year. This is why I decided to make this thread not because I thought it would solve our draft problems with Minny. Kahn screwed himself over and set his franchise up for failure when he drafted Rubio and Flynn 5th and 6th in 2009. WHY?
Why not draft Harrison Barnes if possible? He would give them an ideal wing scorer with size and ability to play defense. U can dangle Flynn, other picks, and assets to add more pieces along the way and this team could be dangerous.
I don't understand why people hate Kahn so much, what were the TWolves before Kahn got there? A team full of old useless players who were never going to be anything. They arent winning right now, but its safe to say that this team has alot of potential, and overall talent that people can at least look forward to. There is at least a foundation in place. Add a couple more pieces, get that true alpha dog player and a good lead guard and this team could be a playoff squad.
WTF does Kahn have to do for people not to hate him? I dont get it at all. People are idiots. How is he unrealistic? He may have some odd opinions, but they are at least plausible. For goodness sakes give the man time. People are gonna be eating frickin crow when this team is good in 2 years.
Things that Kahn has said and done that really make me question him as an NBA GM:
- Comparing Darko to Vlade Divac IN HIS PRIME????
- Drafting Johnny Flynn right after Ricky Rubio. WTF
- Trying to use Corey Brewer as your starting SG when he is clearly a 3
- Trading Corey Brewer when he is probably your best defender on your team especially off the bench. Your going to need that guy especially if he is backing up Beasley probably your worst defender on your team
- Holding on to both Rubio's draft rights and Flynn for so freakin' long.
- Comparing Rubio to Steve Nash when he has still never seen him play in the NBA.
I mean, he has only been an NBA GM since 2009 but if he has already done all of these things so far, then he has got to be the worst NBA GM I have ever seen. And this is why I am not a Wolves fan but a puzzled NBA fan who just sits and rolls his eyes at whatever Kahn does.
This is going to be a rant and it is all completely my opinion with probably little to none statistical information backing it up. But seeing as how I've been an MN fan my whole life and have seen KG go through and dominate, getting to the playoffs with Spreewell and Cassel with KG.. So I've seen what they can do and where they can go, AND that they could make noise. So knowing this team isn't worthless and has some future potential with all the young players they've got.. I like what they have. But this is going to get interesting with this rant..
First off I'd like to just say, I hate Rubio. I don't know why in the hell we are putting all of our hopes on this kid. He obviously doesn't want to play here. Why force him to play here when he'll probably pull something like Deron Williams did and complain about everything all the while silently asking for a trade. Besides, he can't even shoot, he's not all that athletic.. He's basically like a Steve Nash that can't shoot.. and I mean yeah cool you can put up 11 assists.. can you score? No. The defense will just play back on him and force him to shoot (and miss) the ball.
Also, I hate how Rambis coaches. I know the Lakers can pull of the triangle offense but that's because look at who the have as their shooting guard. Arguably one of the best shooting guards in the league right now and in the history of the league. Who do we have at shooting guard? Wes Johnson? Yeah, I like him. I like his potential, but he is in no way, shape, or form someone who can produce at a high level in this system. I hate how Flynn is getting absolutely stifled in this system. He is a pick-and-roll point guard. He can score, he can produce. So why did we take that away from him putting him in that offense. I am a huge fan of Flynn and I know that he can be an all star someday but not on this team or at least not in this offense. I followed him closely last year and when he played against the great point guards, he played tremendous. He played DWill, CP3, Rondo, and he put up numbers. He can play on their level and he can do well. But he is being held back by the coach. That's why Ridnour is doing so well. He can shoot, and he passes a lot. But in my opinion, he is just a good mentor trying to steal minutes. He did good work with Jennings last year (as the backup) and now we don't see any improvement in Flynn because Ridnour has the starting job and doesn't want to give it up.
Now on to talking about Kahn.. Oh dear LORD do I hate all of what he has done for the Wolves. Biggysmalls, this one is just for you and that last comment you made. Yes, they will be decent in a few years. Why would that be Kahn's doing? Kevin Love improved on his own, Darko (f***ing DARKO) was brought in as their key center, he drafted 4, count em FOUR point guards in the first round last year, including drafting one that hasn't even thought about coming back from Spain, one who is having major struggles in the wrong system, one who was traded to Denver and is now starting for a playoff team, and Elington who isn't much of a shooting guard but more like a shooter off the bench. Who did we pass on in that draft? Oh I'll tell you who we passed on. Steph Curry (picked by the GState at number 6), Brandon Jennings (Bucks, number 10.. and oh yeah, put up 55 in one game, rookie record.), Demar DeRozan (electrifying player that is exciting to watch and can put up big numbers), Darren Collison (who backed up CP3 and exceed any and all expectations about what he can do), Rodrigue Beaubois (who has some of the best potential for the Mavs and is most definitely someone to watch out for), and Taj Gibson (who is one of the key parts to the Bulls rotation). And we picked Rubio and Flynn. Cool. With the 4th and 5th pick in the draft we should've picked Curry and DeRozan. We could've made something out of the franchise after that by instead of getting Wes Johnson this year, they could've satisfied a different need and gotten Cousins who we have seen can be a GREAT low post scorer and player if his mind is in it. Not to mention he has some defensive presence. But with Love and Cousins as two great rebounders, our front court would be set and our back court of Curry and DeRozan would be great. And assuming we'd still have added Beasely, our lineup would be Curry, DeRozan, Beasely, Love, Cousins.. I don't see many holes in that lineup. Not to mention our bench would include Ellington, Ridnour, Anthony Randolph, and Webster. THAT team would be deadly in two years. Not a lineup of Flynn/Ridnour, Wes, Beasely, Love, Darko.. That lineup is like middle of the pack/going for another lottery pick.
Now that I finished my sh**ty drafting abilities rant, I'll move on to what Khan did right.. He traded basically nothing to get Beasely..... hmm lemme think................ OH! And he traded Corey Brewer (who I also am not a big fan of), who was one of the few to have a positive average for points scored when he's on the court, for Anthony Randolph............... Okay yeah that's it.
The fact is, MN is constantly putting bad trades together, having terrible drafts, and not improving their core players to be what they need them to be. Love is the only player that improved. While I respect his decisions and know that he is trying to make this franchise better, he's going in the wrong direction. And unless if we get Irving, Kanter, or Jonas, we'll be having another awful, painful season next year. If we don't get up to at least 35 wins next season I think it has to be time to dismantle the team and start over again keeping only Love, Beasely, Wes, and Flynn because they (exception of Beasely) have all been together for their entire careers and have developed chemistry, not to mention Flynn and Wes could develop a good back court tandem of athleticism and perimeter defense based off of quickness.
Being a Wolves fan is hard this time of year because we see all the teams getting into the thick of things as the games start to wind down.. and we are still struggling to get to 20 wins. That's got to prove that something isn't right. We need a good draft this year and possibly next year or else I fear that this team will be basically lost for the next decade and the rest of Love's career (until MN decides to be nice and trade him to a soon-to-be championship team and let him win for once.. need I remind you of Garnett?).
You're exactly right man. Right now the Wolves could have a core of Curry, DeRozan, Love, and Cousins. Instead they chose to take Flynn, Rubio, and Johnson. It's sad to think that they could be one of the best up and coming teams, but instead they're going to be a joke year after year.
"Their only holes are SG and C."
17-53. Maybe if the shooting guard was Michael Jordan and the center was Shaq, this 17-53 team is just missing a SG and C.
I think besides Kevin Love, all those players and picks are up for grabs.
I lost point for being real. Why would you add more young players when you can barely play the ones you have. Young guys need minutes and a chance to make mistakes. Jordan Crawford will make ATL feel really stupid when he winds up being a cheaper version of Jamal Crawford as a off the bench scorer and Jamal leaves via free agency or gets overpaid by ATL. Washington is playing him and he is putting up stats but even better than that he is get minutes to develop into a complete NBA player and not just a scorer. ATL did not pay him enough. He showed enough in ATL for them to trade Jamal for possibly playmaking point and a big man.
but did everyone forget about last years shooting guard draft pick...wes johnson? give the guy a little time to develop hah. unless they can trade their lottery pick, johnny flynn, and wes johnson for an all star caliber shooting guard to pair up with k love, theyre probably just going to waste it again. and did everyone give up on anthony randolph? right now it looks a little unrealistic but i would really like to see this team be successful.
PF-P Jones III
i dunno i just think it would be a fun team to watch lol. Rubio would have a field day and that would be some scary big zone defense. dont thumbs down me i just think it would be interesting
dlipto, that line up lacks defense at many position and would be a worse line up than they have now. Also I think Wesley Johnson is a natural small forward and it will take him time to think and play full as a 2 guard.
If Rubio won't come over then take Irving, if Rubio does come over then take Barnes and use him and Johnson to fill the SG minutes and play some SF. Kanter would be a soilid choice but Kahn does love Darko and he's still got 3 years left on his deal.
I heard they might draft perry if given a chance( no he's not a SF and they dont view him as one , from what i read they want him to become a four and try Love at the Five)
Comparing Darko to Vlade...I believe he was comparing their skill sets and the roads they had to take, Vlade had a slow start to his career, Darko has as well. Maybe it was a little out there, but if Danny Ainge said it, everybody would say "Gall I like the way he thinks and this Darko has some potential"
Drafting Flynn after Drafting Rubio...Rubio wasnt coming over for 2 years and Flynn was compared to a poor mans Chris Paul. That hasnt worked out, but lets not ignore the fact that Curry, Derozan, and Jennings all had major flaws too as prospects.
Playing Cory Brewer at the 2 when he is clearly a 3...Do you know what basketball is? The difference between a SG and a SF is so minimal and they are basically interchangeable. Thats just a stupid statement.
Trading away Brewer who was the best defender...Brewer is a terrible defender. He was good in college, that doesnt mean he is in the NBA, hes at best and energy providing 8th man behind 3 wings who are clearly better and he was going to leave anyway.
Is Kahn the only one comparing Rubio to Steve Nash? If you say yes, then you are a biased stuck up pig
Vlade and Darko are not comparable. Vlade's second year int he NBA is better than any of Drako's years. There Skills aren't the same the only thing that you can compare is there height and that they both are Euros
This team has the same issues as Toronto right now. They are lead by an extremely talented big man that doesnt play D. There problems arent as bad as Toronto's in the sense that they actaully have love in an ideal position, but still your bigs have to be able to defend in this league.
Minnesota is the best rebounding team in the league and I doubt its even close. They have Rubio coming in to make the ofense run alot smoother, better shots, less prone to turnovers similar to a non athletic Rajon Rondo is how I project Rubio. They have Love and Beasley who are very good scorers for their position, and an average starting Center in Milicic who I think i actaully pretty underrated. LA, Orlando, Boston etc would love to have this guy on their team
The issue is unless Love and Beasley make drastic changes this team is going nowhere. The defense has to pick up immediatly, they have to grab some oldschool veterans who they will pay only to play defense. They have to set an example by only playing those vets until the young guys start playing D.
Two horrible teams that dont play D but have young talent. If you can get two good defenders,one at Point Guard and the other at Center then that brings a team defense up alot
Seems like you really have a bone to pick. I'm going to go ahead and pick apart all that you said, and prove it wrong. I've been a dedicated Wolves fan for my entire life. I know what they've been doing, what they are capable of, and where it went wrong. I respect that you have your own opinions about this.. I just feel like they are slightly off based from what is reality and what is just an onlookers view at statistics.
You said "why not draft Barnes?" Why, so we can have ANOTHER wing player with length and scoring ability but isn't that solid on defense? Yeah, keep scoring 110 points, eventually you'll wear the other team out.. Or the more likely scenario of your shooters will go cold and you will get killed by 50 points.
Who were the Twolves before Kahn got there? Hmm.. Western Conference playoff team if I do remember correctly. And a GM that has a heart to let the best franchise power forward we've had in KG go to let him win a championship and feel what it feels like to be a winner. But useless old players? You are dead wrong about that. We had about a one or two year transitional period where we went young and weeded out all the older players like Marko Jaric and the likes.
You want this team to add a few more pieces to the foundation, like a go-to scorer and a good lead guard? Our go-to scorer is turning out to be Beasely, which he is great on offense but he isn't all that consistent. Not to mention he didn't even know the definition of the word defense until he came to the NBA. A lead guard would be nice to have.. But if you think Rubio can come into this team as a pass first point guard who plays at his best on fastbreaks to change this team around.. That won't happen. He doesn't have his heart in MN. Nor will he ever. We should honestly trade him to the Knicks or the Lakers and see if we can get a nice return from that. Because although I was very excited about him coming in at first, like many others, I don't see him being effective in this offense because its such a slow half court offense and fast full court offense. What Rubio needs is to be cut loose and let him control the action while setting up the likes of Melo and Amar'e or Kobe.. Not Wes Johnson and Kevin Love.
As to your remark about "how is [Kahn] unrealistic?" I'm dismissing that with the simple note that he wants Darko to be our center of the future. He is underrated and he can have breakout games where he plays great.. But he is a role player trying to fill shoes much too big for him.
Next post you put up. First thing you talked about was comparisons to Vlade Divac about Darko. They both started slow, yes. But Vlade recoverd and won. A lot. Darko had a slow start (about as slow as evolution), and he's only NOW picking up on his career. When he's in the later part of his career. Let's take a look at his fellow 2003 draft mates. LBJ, 2 time reigning MVP and has a good chance of winning a title(s) within the next 5 years. Wade has a championship ring in his possession, not to mention a Finals MVP to show for his performance. Bosh had a great run in Toronto and although much to OhCanada's dismay, that came to an ugly ending. Melo is widely considered in the top 3 offensive players in the league today, that won't change for awhile in my mind. I think you get the point. However I would like to bring up the wonderful drafting abilities again of MN this time on McHale's behalf in drafting Ndudi Ebi. All I have to say is wow. Way to go guys. I guess we really had a rough year that year.
Onto the fact that you tried justifying the Rubio-Flynn draft. Yes, I agree. Rubio would be overseas for awhile longer but we also picked Ty Lawson later in that round. Justify that? No, you really can't. Nobody can. And was this "poor man's Chris Paul" comparison another of Kahn's? If so, I want to bring him to a psychologist and really see what the hell goes on in that guys mind. Oh and how Curry DeRozan and Jennings all had flaws? Yeah I remember all of those remarks. And yet we still went with Rubio-Flynn. Smart.
The difference between a SG and a SF isn't that minimal. Let's look at the premier shooting guards out there. Kobe (6'6"), Wade (6'4"), Joe Johnson (6'6"), Ginobli (6'6") just to name a few. All are tremendous offensive players but also play great defense. Corey Brewer is 6'9", 190 pounds. Do you want him to go up against someone, oh say, 6'8", 250 pounds of sheer athleticism and talent? Not really. The small forwards out there are big and strong. Offensively and defensively there is little missing from the elite players in the league. Who would Brewer be guarding? Those guys. Because he was our best defender. His career average on steals was 1.5 which isn't all that flashy but considering the fact he had to guard players 40 pounds bigger than him on a nightly basis, I'd take that. Also make sure to look up some stats before stating something and ridiculing someone as being stupid. Seeing as how he was the only player on the team that had a positive efficiency rating. Which came because he was the only one playing defense.
And for your last statement calling out all the "biased, stuck up pigs" who think that Kahn is the only one comparing Rubio to Nash.. Umm.. Have YOU heard of basketball? Many people were making that comparison. Everyone said he was going to be great and he was going to turn this franchise around.. Two years overseas and average stats is all he has to prove for it. Not exactly looking at that too hard and saying, "That is the future face of the MN Timberwolves." I could understand if we were relying on someone like LeBron James to come in and turn things around because he is an impact player that was making noise in high school and proved himself in the NBA. Has Rubio really proved himself all that much? I don't see him being that dominant of a player. I could KIND OF see him being like John Stockton with Kevin Love.. But that's a major stretch. He'd be a poor shooting Steve Nash.. Yeah watch out for that one..
I'm sorry but I really can't see where you justify most of your arguments. I'm not trying to insult you I would just like to see where you're getting these things from. Please. Prove me wrong.
I don't see the point of taking Perry Jones and trying him at 4 when Beasley could easily play 4 and you put Johnson at SF allowing him to guard the perimeter which he was drafted to do. Also we need to through Randolph into the mix as he's seeing decent minutes at the moment and they also have Pekovic under contract who has seen minutes around Darko.
However the T-Wolves fill the stats columns with Love's double-doubles, Beasley's scoring or Darko's blocking they are still a bad defensive team and they need to get to the core of what is causing that is it one player or collective and look at addressing this. The trouble is they traded KG, they then traded on Jefferson and they have got progressively worse so could they justify trading away K-Love or Beasley. Also moving Rubio on would be a risk if he went elsewhere and came good.
In hindsight they were struggling during KG's last couple of years there and the only change I could have seen then would have been if they had taken Roy in 2006 instead of Foye. Roy would have had his rookie of the year seaason with T-Wolves, that keeps KG there and they built from that.