Do people on this site actually know all the NBA players that they argue about and against????
I get tired of having arguments with people that dont know the player they are arguing about. I dont even mind if they know some stuff and we just agree. That is cool but you cant really debate with someone who is just coming off of hype or their own lacking knowledge. I don't even get mad a D Hamp that much when he hates on D Howard because he knows some stuff but he just doesn't like Howard and it is already established that you cant argue with someone that has a player bias because any player can look back if you look at what they cant do. There are few players in the NBA that do not have limits or stuff they lack. Some of you other people on this site please do your homework. I have people on here who do not know who Ramon Session is and then want to debate me about him.
Theirs not an NBA Fan next year that won't know Ramon Sessions name. The man is the truth. He's an idiot to sign back with Milwaukee. Scott Skiles is the only bonehead in the league that wouldn't start Sessions over Ridnour.
There are just people that love to argue.
They have no facts, no evidence and form opinions from nothing.
It's an unfortunate reality of any internet forum.
Hey Ramon Sessions isn' that bad of a player. He's fought long and hard to even have made a roster and when he finally had the chance to start. Man, who knew.
DHamp....the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
Sessions has game but you cant put a player in the top 5 for his position without him proving he should be there first. If he goes to the right team he could make it there when he puts up the numbers consistently.
I actually come on here to have some honest debates so that I can learn stuff from other people. I don't know it all but I do know a lot. It is hard to know everything about every player but I at least know enough about each one. When people talk about draft players I know nothing about like John Bryant, I look them up or youtube them and see at least some thing about their game so I am not totally clueless. That is how I would hope other people do even if I dont agree with them. I remember that I knew Curry from his 2nd year and he seemed to be just a shooter but he played point his Junior year which I did not follow. People were saying that he could not play point. I youtubed his Junior year because I already saw him as a great shooter his sophmore year and I saw some of the passes he made and the timing and I know some of what it takes to be a good point guard. He has all those qualities to be at worst a Gilbert Arenas type point and people were arguing with me because they are so caught up on that he can shoot and did not do their research. Even if I dont see a person play because hey sometimes I am too busy I check stats and then I try to check youtube to see if they display those skill that stats will not tell you in a game situation. Assist numbers dont mean much but Curry has court vision like a point guard and to me that is all he need plus his high basketball IQ to be a good NBA point. Seems like the the GMs in the NBA agree with me because dude is moving up but I am sure some them dont realize how good he will be just like they didnt see how good Sessions could be because to me dude has top 5 point guard skills and abilities. He can pass, shoot, and defend and has size to play the 1 and the 2. He has adequate to good quickness and this is just off the limit of times I saw him. Dude has put up a few triple doubles in his first 2 years and his first year he didnt play much and his second year he had to share with Ridnour.
Knicksfreak you seem to be a numbers guy. You should be able to look at a players skills and skills set and know what they can do if given the chance. Sessions has shown that already. I am a basketball guy I am not a stats guys. On one post you talk about even though Howard's number are good his lacks of basketball post moves makes him overrated but yet you want Session number and not his skills to say whether he deserves top 5 consideration.
I dont disagree with you on any points except that Sessions can be called a top 5 PG yet. I know how good he is. He kills the knicks every time they play.
What skills do Session lack that make him not worthy of a top 5 point guard consideration. Have you even seen dude play. He seem to me to be like a quicker Chauncey Billups with more big game potential. He actually has better defensive one on one ability than Billups ever had. How does that not deserve top 5. I have seen your top 5 @Knicksfreak and I would definite take Sessions over Rondo. Rondo can't shoot. Session can. Rondo has longer arms and maybe more quicker but Sessions has good arm length and is taller and bigger as is still a good defender. They both are good rebounders. They both have triple double potential. The Celtics would be a better team to me if they had Sessions instead of Rondo because they are most similiar accept Sessions can shoot.
How is he not top 5. Honestly who is actually better than at the point except Paul and Williams. I would take him over Steve Nash mainly because he can do most of what Steve can do and he can defend and he is younger as well.
Give me your top 5 again and I will make a legit argument to put him above at least one of them.
You have to lead your team to the playoffs before you can even be considered a top PG. I would take Rondo over Sessions anyday. Boston would not be a better team having Sessions over Rondo. Sessions better than Billups?? What? Billups is a big game player. Name one big game Sessions has even played in? 0 I agree Sessions has a lot of potential but to put him above some of these other proven PGs is ludicrous.
My top 10 was in no order. Your whole arguement is about potential. Paul, Williams, Billups, and Nash are all clearly better than him now. Sessions may have the skill of Harris, Rose, or Rondo but I cant rank him higher until he produces when he holds the reigns for an NBA team. I can say Kidd but you'll butcher his shooting.
You can't blame a player because his team is not good. Bucks have not made the playoffs so I can not say he has had in big games in that sense but like Auber says next year when he goes to another team everything I have said here today will become a reality. I have a knack for seeing talent and potential and to be honest I was surprised he we so low in the draft but I did not think he would be as good as he was so early though. If he was another team we would not even be debating his status. You are saying that Rondo and Billups are better because they are on better teams lol. That is funny. We are considered better players because our teams have more talent.
As I said before. WHEN he is on a new team having success, THEN we can move him up the list. Stop fighting this stupid arguement. Put up a poll to see who would put him as a top 5 pg right now in time. Not what he can be. I bet no one will put him there. But then, you probably think you're smarter than everybody else right?
I'm not saying he's a top 5 point guard Sheltwon. I think top ten is reasonable. His numbers as a full time starter are going to be a thing of beauty
That is all speculation. Sessions has put up some nice games for me to say that. A true NBA mind has to think like I do because honestly you can give someone point for experience but Steve Nash experience has not made him a better defender. I like Harris but he is not as stable and controlled as Sessions and Sessions appears to be the better shooter and scorer right now and the better playmaker. You base thing on stats and I base things on game before Harris put up the big numbers in Jersey I knew he should be a big time point guard and was not getting the chance to do it. That is because i saw he is game. Stats are number but what you see in a person's game is what determines if they are better and also Sessions has put up the numbers. He has had a few 20 and 20 games. He has had a few triple doubles. Harris and Billups has not done this and will probably not do it.
As of now, Sessions has potential and a skillset that could make him a star. Same arguement could be said for many players. Based on accomplishments, stats and achievements he isn't anywhere close to top 10. Based on skill and potential, he could be top 5 but has a long way to go to prove is IS IN TOP 5.
You're changing this from a top 5 thing to how good Sessions could be. He has good size and has shown flashes. Top 5? No way. Yeah I'm sure you think you have the greatest basketball mind and some kind of 6th sense. Get real. Everybody here has been right about a player from time to time.
Look dude it is not a stupid argument. You started this off by disagreeing with me. I know basketball. You need to see numbers and I don't. Numbers mean nothing to me because they do not show actually skills. I am sorry if you can't see things my way. I am not wrong. I happened to see things you can't. I dont rank players based on numbers. Skill wise is top 5. Skills he has already shown. His potential is high but he already has displayed enough skills that if he were on a better team you will see what I see. I have not seen as much as I would like of him but I am shocked people are not saying what I am saying now. This guy has no real weaknesses as a player and as point guard. He can always get better and every player can but he can do everything. I remember the year before BRoy got more attetention most people that watched him play knew that he should be one of the top players in the league and it took a lot of people some time before they saw it. I am like that guy who gets a boot leg of some new artist and is rocking and telling everyone this guy is gonna be better than Jay Z and everyone is laughing and clowning like no he isnt then his CD drop and they on dude nuts and finally see what I was saying. It is not my fault people catch on too late.
I am not saying Rondo is better because he is on a better team. I am saying Rondo has proved he can lead a team to the playoffs not to mention win a championship. Rondo had a lot to do with the Celtics winning. How is Sessions going to perform when the pressure is on and the lights are bright? Until he proves he is a star who can shine in the playoffs I can't put him above Williams, Paul, Rondo, Nash, Billups, Rose etc...
You need to get off your high horse. You're not special.
He has shown more than flashes man. Skill set and potential or different. Howard is potential because of raw ability and he can learn skill set. Skill set is what you can do. With minutes you can show skill set and put up numbers that people will be able to see hey he is good. Most fans do not know basketball they know numbers.
I dont know how many times I have to agree with you about his talent. But until he is the man on his own team, he cant be ranked over proven players.
Rondo led that team to the playoffs, he did it without Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and KG for some part. Yeah if he was on Milwaukee than you would not even be saying that. I think outside the box and some of you don't. That is how I think. I feel though in Sessions case he has already shown enough and if this was his first year than I would have to be careful but as of now to me he is already that good but you guys don't know it yet. Potential can not be reach this dude skill set is already there he will not lose he skill set. If he dont gain another skill as of today he would still be a better player than Rondo. That is what I am saying. Rondo aint do nothing by himself. he did not carry that team. He is on a team 3 hall of famers and the years they were not there he did not lead his team anywhere.
We all can identify players we thought would be stars and have been right. You are probably right about Sessions and I give you your due props. However, I and others can't place him in the top 5 of all point guards based on what he has done so far. You may be right in time, but RIGHT NOW he can't be considered with the likes of Paul, Williams, Billups, Rose, Kidd, Nash, Rondo,Harris to name a few. Yes Kidd and Rondo can't shoot, but if exposed for 40 minutes nightly we might also find a weakness in Session's game. Again, I recognize your eye for talent, but don't buy the top 5 just yet.
Rondo is not the man on his own team. Chauncey Billups is no even the man on his own team where was in the final against the Lakers. Everyone showed up but him. Melo is the man. Billups does make others better because of his leadership. That is all Billups has on Sessions as of right now.
Sheltwon... so you're telling me if you replace Sessions with Billups on the Nuggets... they would have went to the playoffs? Chaunceys better than a lot of people because he does the ONE thing that makes a point guard great... he makes his team mates better. Who cares about being the man on a bad team? That means nothing. You're asking where he was in the finals? He was playing. Where was Sessions? At home. If Sessions is a top 5 point guard, he would have elevated his team to the playoffs. My top 5 point guards are Deron, Paul, Parker, Rose, and Chauncey. Maybe Rondo and Nash, Rondo's still young, Nash is a little old but see what the top 5 have in common? They made the playoffs! The goal when you're in the NBA is to win the last game of the year. Not show flashes on a 34 win team. Not to sit at home during the playoffs in a weak year in the east.
Thank you Maravich. Thats all I've been saying.
As "the man" I mean the clear starting point.
Sessions is a better shooter but there is now way in hell he is a better defender and ballhandler than Rondo.
Sessions never even lead his Neveda team in college very far. I mean I haven't seen him lead any team. Basketball is about winning. You say numbers don't matter but you keep bringing up his triple doubles. Sessions can keep putting up good numbers on a losing team but it won't matter. Players become stars by leading, winning, playing big in the PLAYOFFS simple as that.
Whatever team Sessions goes too he won't be "the MAN" either. Dude isn't that good. If Sessions played for Denver he wouldn't be the man either, same goes for Boston, etc....
Since you are "special", who will be top 5 coming out of this draft.
Billups did more for the Nuggetts than Iverson who has a history of gaudy stats. Billups took Denver a long way in the playoffs with better stats than Sessions. Iverson was more "The Man" with Melo than Billops was but Billups made the team better which is what it's all about. Again, I can point to who can do what bettr, but right now Sessions has less of a resume and more to prove than at least 15 point guards RIGHT NOW!
I am still working on that myself but I will get back to on that @ knickfreak because there are over 12 point guards to consider. Scott Skiles is dumb for not playing Sessions more and the reasons the Buck did not win was because Redd and Bogut was lost for the season early. I will put it like this after next years half and Sessions is putting up big number for a good team than holla at your boy. Like I said yall will be hip to this when it is too late. I start trends homie not follow them.
I think we're beating a dead horse. Next season is not now. He may be in top 3 after a month of next season or we can have the same argument, but as of now, I will take Paul, Williams, Rose, Rondo, Nash and Harris.
HELLO. WE all agreed he has the talent to be great. Just because you're dumb enough to think he's top 5 doesnt mean we'd all be jumping on the bandwagon when hes an all-star. If you want to do a skill/size top 5 we will. 1. Stephon Marbury.
ramon sessions is good..but not that good
Billups did what Andre Miller did before plus a little more because he is a better defender, shooter, and leader. They would not have gotten Billups for Miller so the AI things worked in the long run for getting them a player that fit their style. AI was never a good fit when they lost Steve Blake because AI could be a shooting guard with Steve Blake there. Billups is being hyped as a player because of his leadership. Other players are playing better defense. Billups is still an average player but he is a smart player who knows his strengths and can play well in a team setting. AI can carry a team offensively and Billups does it with his leadership which was something that Denver need because they had enough scorers. They need a direction and identity and Billups gave that to them. That does not mean Billups is a better player than AI but it means he was a better fit for that team because they need a point guard which AI is not. Detroit screwed because they wanted AI to increase their scoring but he didnt mesh with the other players and also he got hurt so he could do it like he used to.
Vince Young is a top 5 QB as far as size, athleticism, skill. Is he top 5 in the NFL? No. Can he be? yes.
He did his job which was what he was supposed to do. He was a winner in Detroit and he remains that. I'll take a winner anyday over a player with skills, Remember when Billups came into the league? He was a scorer and not that great of a winner. Hechanged what needed to be changed. Bottom line......it's not all about what skills a player has, A smart player will do what the team needs to win. Not sure what Sessions has proved so far. All others mentioned have resumes to prove body of work!
Look I am right a great deal more than I am wrong about basketball and if I am wrong I am not to proud to admit it. I have had some big argument with people in real life and I was right and they were wrong. But they wanted to cuss me out because they favor players that they knew. I dont care who you know, if a player sucks he sucks. Jordan Formar did make me think I was wrong to doubt him but now it seem long term I was right. I like his game but as a back up he does not help the Lakers. I love the Shannon Brown pick up but I dont know if he can be a started so the Lakers need a quicker starter player that can get Fisher to be moved to the bench. Vujcic is on the verge of being moved in my mind the machine is obsolete. He tries to do too much other than shoot when you are open and make 50 percent threes.
I'm just arguing a top 5 opinion based on fact and feeling. No anger or need to cuss u out. You have an opinion different than mine. Doesn't make your or me wrong. But time will tell because he hasn't proven anything yet.
He wasnt a winner at Colorado or early in his career and he was another player that I thought was good early on but had a hard time.I watched Billups as a rookie and I did not know why he got traded so much. It was mainly because Pitino was mad he did not get Duncan or at least Van Horn. This was draft that they had two top 5 picks and didnt get the one or two pick lol. That had to suck. I remember that Boston team gave MJ Bulls on of their 10 losses that season.
You are a numbers guys and numbers guys go after number because you don't recognize skills. If Billups did not have people like me to get him chances early on he would not be the player he is today because number wise early on he sucked and then he got traded a lot and some teams would not touch him.
Same with Ben Wallace. Larry Brown helped turned that team into Champions but someone that have vision to give them a chance made them winners.
Sheltwon, you play to win the last game of the year. Every top 5 point guard elevated his team to the playoffs. He couldn't get the Bucks to win 40 games. Billups made all the difference in Denver. This game is about winning. What don't you get?
even with that Billups has a higher value as on now then Session because of numbers and hype but Sessions to me is still the better player and you will not change my mind on that but i will say this after next year you will agree with me but I will never agree with you.
You may have won some middle school arguement, but here you're amongst fellow NBA fanatics. Explain to me what we will be wrong about Sessions? We agreed he could be great on the right team. You happened to be right about some things in the past. Whoopdeedoo. Its not like we're dumb casual fans that think Hansbrough will be an all-star. Everybody that follows the NBA as close as we do has been right about players in the draft. I think Gerald Green still has all-star potential. If he comes to New York and ends up making the all-star team will you pat me on the back?
Wrong, I won't agree with you. You should stop being so blind and see that Session's is a classic case of someone putting up good numbers on a bad team. Until he does it on a winning team, it means nothing. If you don't realize that, that's just ignorance.
I think Sessions could emerge similarly to how Arenas did. But as of right now, he cant be considered among the NBA's top 5 PG's.