This topic contains 32 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar wrector 10 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #53091
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    ItsRainingNegs
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    bleacherreport.com/articles/1891689-trade-talk-dion-waiters-wants-out-of-cleveland-prefers-philly-and-more

    Before I saw this I trade machined this: Evan Turner for Dion Waiters and Alonzo Gee. Carter-Williams and Dion played together at Syracuse so there’s that. Philly will need a go-to scorer and ball-handler for the future and whomever they select with their pick will fill a need and form a potent starting five for the future. Cleveland can slide Turner into the two spot while alleviating their small forward logjam. They can also sign him to a long term deal in the summer, Ohio State connection obvious, in hopes he can be that 2nd/3rd option for the team. 

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  • #857204
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    NJHooper95
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     Cavs need to trade him fast, he is clearly unhappy and though he denies saying that he is, it’s written in body language and over his face. He doesn’t seem to like Kyrie and I think the feeling maybe mutual. I think the atmosphere for the Cavs will improve if they trade him and hopefully for a talented high character guy. Philly is a good place for him since he wants to be the focal point of the offense.

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    • #857212
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      draftmangt
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       I think your basing all of that off the story that broke about things getting heated between Waiters, Irving, and Thompson. On the court i haven’t seen anything that would support the things your saying.

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      • #857224
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
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        I agree and he responded by saying all this stuff is made up and he explicitly denied asking for a trade in any way. His body language has been in question since his Summer League debut in his rookie season. That can’t be the sole evidence that he is desperate to be traded or that the front office is desperate to trade him.

        All that being said he wants to be the man and Kyrie Irving, advanced metrics and any coach that doesn’t want to be fired at the end of the season is going to keep from being the man on any NBA team. Kyrie was real encouraging to him and pushing him on the sideline to shoot more after a bad first half against the Magic. Maybe thats progress maybe not, but I think that CJ Miles starting over him is the real thorn in his side and is the one that will make him more likely to get irritated. 

          

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      • #857331
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        TheArtistPaysthePrice
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        I agree and he responded by saying all this stuff is made up and he explicitly denied asking for a trade in any way. His body language has been in question since his Summer League debut in his rookie season. That can’t be the sole evidence that he is desperate to be traded or that the front office is desperate to trade him.

        All that being said he wants to be the man and Kyrie Irving, advanced metrics and any coach that doesn’t want to be fired at the end of the season is going to keep from being the man on any NBA team. Kyrie was real encouraging to him and pushing him on the sideline to shoot more after a bad first half against the Magic. Maybe thats progress maybe not, but I think that CJ Miles starting over him is the real thorn in his side and is the one that will make him more likely to get irritated. 

          

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    • #857318
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      draftmangt
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       I think your basing all of that off the story that broke about things getting heated between Waiters, Irving, and Thompson. On the court i haven’t seen anything that would support the things your saying.

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  • #857311
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    NJHooper95
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     Cavs need to trade him fast, he is clearly unhappy and though he denies saying that he is, it’s written in body language and over his face. He doesn’t seem to like Kyrie and I think the feeling maybe mutual. I think the atmosphere for the Cavs will improve if they trade him and hopefully for a talented high character guy. Philly is a good place for him since he wants to be the focal point of the offense.

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  • #857206
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    draftmangt
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    Turner would be far more expensive and arguably and even worse fit next to Irving than Waiters is.Waiters at least seem to be content coming off the bench and has been playing very well. Unless someone makes the Cavs an offer they can’t refuse i doubt they move Waiters.

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  • #857312
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    draftmangt
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    Turner would be far more expensive and arguably and even worse fit next to Irving than Waiters is.Waiters at least seem to be content coming off the bench and has been playing very well. Unless someone makes the Cavs an offer they can’t refuse i doubt they move Waiters.

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  • #857214
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    NJHooper95
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     I have seen EVERY Cavs games this year and it is definitely tension there. I’m not saying Turner is the answer, but is holding to Waiters worth losing Kyrie?  I believe waiters wants to be the star of this team, his talent is not in question, if he can accept that he is not Irving then they can be great together.

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    • #857232
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      TheArtistPaysthePrice
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      Evan Turner is the anti-answer to any team chemistry question. He would make this team better this year for sure, but there is a best seller chronicling how bad of a teammate Evan Turner can be. He  is constantly refered to as the "villian" throughout the book.

       Dion is a guy that it is rumored to be a good locker room guy and per a reporter close to the team when asked "who is seen as a better teammate by guys in the locker room Dion or Kyrie" he responded "I can’t say officially but I can tell you that there were more than a few guys on the team last year that didn’t have Kyrie’s phone number". 

      Evan adds wins to a team compared to Waiters this year, so the Cavs will be better this year. So be it. 

        

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    • #857339
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      TheArtistPaysthePrice
      Participant

      Evan Turner is the anti-answer to any team chemistry question. He would make this team better this year for sure, but there is a best seller chronicling how bad of a teammate Evan Turner can be. He  is constantly refered to as the "villian" throughout the book.

       Dion is a guy that it is rumored to be a good locker room guy and per a reporter close to the team when asked "who is seen as a better teammate by guys in the locker room Dion or Kyrie" he responded "I can’t say officially but I can tell you that there were more than a few guys on the team last year that didn’t have Kyrie’s phone number". 

      Evan adds wins to a team compared to Waiters this year, so the Cavs will be better this year. So be it. 

        

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  • #857320
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    NJHooper95
    Participant

     I have seen EVERY Cavs games this year and it is definitely tension there. I’m not saying Turner is the answer, but is holding to Waiters worth losing Kyrie?  I believe waiters wants to be the star of this team, his talent is not in question, if he can accept that he is not Irving then they can be great together.

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  • #857218
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    draftmangt
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    Every since Waiters accused Irving and Thompson of playing " buddy ball " Irving has made an concerted effort to make sure Waiters gets his fair share touches and i’ve seen no tension. Kyrie is under contract till 2015 when he becomes a restricted free agent most likely headed for a max contract and NO player has ever not excepted a max contract offer from the team that drafted them coming off thier rookie deal. I think its safe to say losing Irving isn’t a concern right now. I think as long as Waiters is getting his touches hes happy.

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    • #857417
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      XYRYX
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       I think your right except the part Shaq turned down Orlandos offer in 96 and joined the Lakers.

      But hell this is a long time ago.

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    • #857310
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      XYRYX
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       I think your right except the part Shaq turned down Orlandos offer in 96 and joined the Lakers.

      But hell this is a long time ago.

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  • #857325
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    draftmangt
    Participant

    Every since Waiters accused Irving and Thompson of playing " buddy ball " Irving has made an concerted effort to make sure Waiters gets his fair share touches and i’ve seen no tension. Kyrie is under contract till 2015 when he becomes a restricted free agent most likely headed for a max contract and NO player has ever not excepted a max contract offer from the team that drafted them coming off thier rookie deal. I think its safe to say losing Irving isn’t a concern right now. I think as long as Waiters is getting his touches hes happy.

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  • #857226
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    draftmangt
    Participant

    With Waiters settling in as the sixth man and Delly playing well Jack should be the guy on they are looking to move, idealing for a legit 3 and D wing player.

     

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  • #857333
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    draftmangt
    Participant

    With Waiters settling in as the sixth man and Delly playing well Jack should be the guy on they are looking to move, idealing for a legit 3 and D wing player.

     

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  • #857228
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    machu46
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    I really hope that Dion isn’t traded to Philly.  MCW seems to be growing up before our very eyes.  I don’t want Waiters rubbing off on him.

    Whether or not Dion wants to admit it, he’s best suited as a 6th man IMO.  He obviously isn’t happy in Cleveland, but I think that being the 6th man is the role he is destined for.  He should be traded to a team with established leadership where he could be kept in check and still continue to be a spark plug off the bench.

     

     

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    • #857355
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      ItsRainingNegs
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      This is what bothers me the most. Why is he "destined" to be a sixth man? Because he’s a volume shooter? Because he’s a combo guard? There’s a reason Dwyane Wade comparisons were made. Offensively he’s a great ball handler, someone who doesn’t cough up the ball a lot. He’s a really good shooter and his ability to get to the lane is top notch. There’s nothing he can’t do offensively and he’s built like a bulldog so he’s gonna last. What makes him different than James Harden style wise offensively? Attitude wise how he’s different, and definitely not worse, than Westbrook?

      (Next part is to the forum)

      There’s a lot of external factors that go into the media perception of a player and it affects their image that seems to be soaked up by people. The Cavs are a one man franchise and have been for a long time. Kyrie is extremely marketable and is part of the future of the NBA. Since the NBA doesn’t give a shit about the Cavs the general pop doesn’t see or knows about Waiters they can build off of everything quoted pre draft and say whatever they want after. Kyrie doing poorly needs a scapegoat and they found it.

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    • #857248
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      ItsRainingNegs
      Participant

      This is what bothers me the most. Why is he "destined" to be a sixth man? Because he’s a volume shooter? Because he’s a combo guard? There’s a reason Dwyane Wade comparisons were made. Offensively he’s a great ball handler, someone who doesn’t cough up the ball a lot. He’s a really good shooter and his ability to get to the lane is top notch. There’s nothing he can’t do offensively and he’s built like a bulldog so he’s gonna last. What makes him different than James Harden style wise offensively? Attitude wise how he’s different, and definitely not worse, than Westbrook?

      (Next part is to the forum)

      There’s a lot of external factors that go into the media perception of a player and it affects their image that seems to be soaked up by people. The Cavs are a one man franchise and have been for a long time. Kyrie is extremely marketable and is part of the future of the NBA. Since the NBA doesn’t give a shit about the Cavs the general pop doesn’t see or knows about Waiters they can build off of everything quoted pre draft and say whatever they want after. Kyrie doing poorly needs a scapegoat and they found it.

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      • #857363
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        ItsRainingNegs
        Participant

        Stupid new setup

        This brings me to the Thunder affect. When the team relocated the NBA had to establish the brand, so everything about the Thunder is going to be a.) highly advertised and b.) positive. The Thunder is everywhere, Durant’s a star they’re pumped past the Spurs by the league (and anything contrary is silly, especially with the coincidence that the Spurs got the chance to play the Heat straight up this year). Controversy over Westbrook only starts because people see him shoot so much in the playoffs even though they have Durant. That’s blown over though because of blah blah blah. Harden gets the same treatment as he looks great off of the bench and the media can build off of it. 

        Waiters doesn’t have that luxury. He looks fantastic, especially against the West’s best, and that was against the first and second unit. But people will say the same things. The Cavs aren’t like the Thunder, and hopefully he’ll get traded and prove all wrong. 

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      • #857256
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        ItsRainingNegs
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        Stupid new setup

        This brings me to the Thunder affect. When the team relocated the NBA had to establish the brand, so everything about the Thunder is going to be a.) highly advertised and b.) positive. The Thunder is everywhere, Durant’s a star they’re pumped past the Spurs by the league (and anything contrary is silly, especially with the coincidence that the Spurs got the chance to play the Heat straight up this year). Controversy over Westbrook only starts because people see him shoot so much in the playoffs even though they have Durant. That’s blown over though because of blah blah blah. Harden gets the same treatment as he looks great off of the bench and the media can build off of it. 

        Waiters doesn’t have that luxury. He looks fantastic, especially against the West’s best, and that was against the first and second unit. But people will say the same things. The Cavs aren’t like the Thunder, and hopefully he’ll get traded and prove all wrong. 

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      • #857366
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        machu46
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        I agree that he’s a very good ball-handler for a SG.  

        Regarding the other stuff: 

        1. He’s not that good of a shooter.  He’s shooting 42% from the field this year and shot 41% from the field last year.  His mechanics are bad.  Comparing him to the two guys that you asked about (Wade and Harden), Dion’s TS% the past two years have been 49.2% and 50.5%.  The lowest TS% that Harden has ever had is 55.1%, and the past 4 years, he’s hovered around 60% (peaking at 66% his last year with OKC).  Wade’s career low is 53% and has been at about 57-58% the past 6 years.  In terms of TS%, Dion is right around the same level as Rondo (who obviously isn’t a good shooter).
        2. He may not turn it over all that often since he doesn’t pass the ball all that often, but he does average more turnovers than assists, so I think that kinda goes to show that he’s not exactly skilled in being able to protect the ball.  Looking at assist % and turnover %, Dion’s assist % was 18.4% last year, and 15.3% this year.  In Wade’s career, his assist % has never dropped below 23.5%, and his career assist % is over 32%.  Harden’s career assist % is at 19.1%, but in his two years since blossoming with houston, it’s been over 25%.  In terms of turnovers, they all turn it over at about the same rate.
        3. You are correct that Dion is great at getting into the lane, but once he gets there, he really struggles to finish despite his solid frame.  Dwyane Wade is above average finishing around the basket at 66%.  Harden is middle of the pack at 58%.  Dion is below average at 43%.

        At the end of the day, I think that he is destined to be a good sixth man because he’s a ball-dominant player that isn’t much of a passer, and is an inefficient scorer.  I think that he can be a spark plug off the bench for a contending team (for example, a healthy Bulls team could desperately use a guy off their bench that can ignite some offense into their second unit).  I don’t think that’s a bad thing to be at all.  I just don’t see him co-existing with many starting PGs because Dion needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but at the same time, he can’t be your primary ball-handler all the time because he’s not really a willing passer.

         

         

         

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      • #857260
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        machu46
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        I agree that he’s a very good ball-handler for a SG.  

        Regarding the other stuff: 

        1. He’s not that good of a shooter.  He’s shooting 42% from the field this year and shot 41% from the field last year.  His mechanics are bad.  Comparing him to the two guys that you asked about (Wade and Harden), Dion’s TS% the past two years have been 49.2% and 50.5%.  The lowest TS% that Harden has ever had is 55.1%, and the past 4 years, he’s hovered around 60% (peaking at 66% his last year with OKC).  Wade’s career low is 53% and has been at about 57-58% the past 6 years.  In terms of TS%, Dion is right around the same level as Rondo (who obviously isn’t a good shooter).
        2. He may not turn it over all that often since he doesn’t pass the ball all that often, but he does average more turnovers than assists, so I think that kinda goes to show that he’s not exactly skilled in being able to protect the ball.  Looking at assist % and turnover %, Dion’s assist % was 18.4% last year, and 15.3% this year.  In Wade’s career, his assist % has never dropped below 23.5%, and his career assist % is over 32%.  Harden’s career assist % is at 19.1%, but in his two years since blossoming with houston, it’s been over 25%.  In terms of turnovers, they all turn it over at about the same rate.
        3. You are correct that Dion is great at getting into the lane, but once he gets there, he really struggles to finish despite his solid frame.  Dwyane Wade is above average finishing around the basket at 66%.  Harden is middle of the pack at 58%.  Dion is below average at 43%.

        At the end of the day, I think that he is destined to be a good sixth man because he’s a ball-dominant player that isn’t much of a passer, and is an inefficient scorer.  I think that he can be a spark plug off the bench for a contending team (for example, a healthy Bulls team could desperately use a guy off their bench that can ignite some offense into their second unit).  I don’t think that’s a bad thing to be at all.  I just don’t see him co-existing with many starting PGs because Dion needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but at the same time, he can’t be your primary ball-handler all the time because he’s not really a willing passer.

         

         

         

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        • #857376
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          ItsRainingNegs
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          I like the stats but when I watch the Cavs he’s solid finding his man on the drive, he finishes when not knocked to the floor (and he doesn’t get those calls), and contrary to your statement I don’t see how his mechanics are bad. He looks pretty natural and puts it in when I see it. But again, the stats are solid in your favor. 

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        • #857270
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          ItsRainingNegs
          Participant

          I like the stats but when I watch the Cavs he’s solid finding his man on the drive, he finishes when not knocked to the floor (and he doesn’t get those calls), and contrary to your statement I don’t see how his mechanics are bad. He looks pretty natural and puts it in when I see it. But again, the stats are solid in your favor. 

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  • #857335
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    machu46
    Participant

    I really hope that Dion isn’t traded to Philly.  MCW seems to be growing up before our very eyes.  I don’t want Waiters rubbing off on him.

    Whether or not Dion wants to admit it, he’s best suited as a 6th man IMO.  He obviously isn’t happy in Cleveland, but I think that being the 6th man is the role he is destined for.  He should be traded to a team with established leadership where he could be kept in check and still continue to be a spark plug off the bench.

     

     

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  • #857347
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    KHAM83
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     Trade him to Philly, and in the draft they get Wiggins or Parker…..Is Waiters still the man in Philly then? If it’s true he wants to be the star, there are better ways to go about it than pouting. Take Harden for example, dude paid his dues as 6th man until he got his opportunity to get his own team. I know the Thunder weren’t paying him anywhere close to what Houston have, but even with a max offer from Okc, I think Harden would have bolted. They drafted you, you’re under contract, pay your dues then leave when you’re a FA. Even with his "reported attitude" what kind of a leader will he be? The best player on a bad team, a la JR Rider, is what he’ll be.

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  • #857240
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    KHAM83
    Participant

     Trade him to Philly, and in the draft they get Wiggins or Parker…..Is Waiters still the man in Philly then? If it’s true he wants to be the star, there are better ways to go about it than pouting. Take Harden for example, dude paid his dues as 6th man until he got his opportunity to get his own team. I know the Thunder weren’t paying him anywhere close to what Houston have, but even with a max offer from Okc, I think Harden would have bolted. They drafted you, you’re under contract, pay your dues then leave when you’re a FA. Even with his "reported attitude" what kind of a leader will he be? The best player on a bad team, a la JR Rider, is what he’ll be.

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  • #857421
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    wrector
    Participant

    That article is complete trash. BleacherReport is full of radical headlines just to grab people’s attention. 

    "He thought he was going to come in and be a 2-guard and be a superstar," the source said. "He came in and was in the (Rising Stars Challenge) with half of his team last year. He worked really hard this offseason, and he came in with the mentality that this was going to be his team. And it’s never going to be his team. It’s always going to be Kyrie’s team."

    I really doubt that Dion was expecting this to be his team. Dion isn’t egotistical either, and they’re totally portraying him as that.

     The Cavs trade rumors are old now, they’ve won 5 of their last 8 – two of those being narrow defeats by the Heat and Blazers. The whole reason those rumors spread were because the Cavs were struggling but they’ve found a groove and have been playing some impressive ball lately. If they find a trade that makes the team better, then so be it. But Evan Turner is not the face I want to see in Cleveland.


     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #857315
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    wrector
    Participant

    That article is complete trash. BleacherReport is full of radical headlines just to grab people’s attention. 

    "He thought he was going to come in and be a 2-guard and be a superstar," the source said. "He came in and was in the (Rising Stars Challenge) with half of his team last year. He worked really hard this offseason, and he came in with the mentality that this was going to be his team. And it’s never going to be his team. It’s always going to be Kyrie’s team."

    I really doubt that Dion was expecting this to be his team. Dion isn’t egotistical either, and they’re totally portraying him as that.

     The Cavs trade rumors are old now, they’ve won 5 of their last 8 – two of those being narrow defeats by the Heat and Blazers. The whole reason those rumors spread were because the Cavs were struggling but they’ve found a groove and have been playing some impressive ball lately. If they find a trade that makes the team better, then so be it. But Evan Turner is not the face I want to see in Cleveland.


     

     

     

     

     

     

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