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DIon SHouldnt of went fourth

ballaj334
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DIon SHouldnt of went fourth

He shoulda went second! ahaha This man is proven haters wrong 21 pts... ten straight in the fourth on the road including two tough long threes.. Kyrie and him are given cleveland great hope for the future. How is that Dion Waiters hate club coming along on this site? Lets go...


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Waiters is good, still think

Waiters is good, still think 4 was a reach maybe he can prove me wrong, he's putting up good numbers....every other game...he's inconsitent, but still good.

ballaj334
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hes a rookie who will be

hes a rookie who will be averaging 18 plus a game man.. He is a rookie who isnt afraid of the moment he has 12 fourth quarter points on the road. i know its the suns but he did it to the clippers.. Neg me all day all it is, is a bunch of people who cant admit they were wrong tell me 4 people better than him in this draft? Idc who you are you hit 7 threes and score 28 on the road in LA as a rookie in your first four games it shows alot please

ballaj334
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ALl i heard was he never

ALl i heard was he never started.. just shows people dont knwo what they are talking about and didnt pay attention to college basketball.. he is fat which is a joke, the dude is a great athlete.. he cant shoot? he now holds the single season record for most threes by a rookie and is shooting pretty weel.. he cant play off the ball? hes averaging 18 with a ball dominant pg... he has attitude.. yea when he was a freshman and wasnt use to coming off the bench as a sophmore he was best player on the team and didnt complain once about coming off the bench.. You people hate for zero reason.. You hate because you believe you know more about basketball that Byron Scott? Its a joke.. own to the fact that you blew it you were wrong.. Most of you thought he shouldnt even go lottery and you were wrong.. I will Accept all negatives because i know how most of you hate.. when you have no way to respond. I am not claiming he is a superstar or anything all i know is he is 20 he proved himself at syracuse and now in the nba... some of you will stick to they shouldnt of taken him because you picture someone liek a dwade... the 2003 draft is probably the greatest draft ever... To say a man who was a premiere scorer in college basketball last year per minute to be considered a bust even before he ever put a jersey on is a joke...

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Yea Waiters has definitely

Yea Waiters has definitely proved alot of people, me being one of them. As a Cavs fan when i hated the pick when it was made, thought it was a huge reach.

I know Davis and Lillard are the favorites rite now but i think waiters has an outside shot at winning ROY.

ballaj334
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Thank You that is all i want

Thank You that is all i want is for people to own it.. I am not mad at people for hating but when he proves you wrong dont continue the hate by negative people who support him.. The bottom line is you got it wrong and just like in summer league when everyone overreacted and were on here after everygame hating on him saying how right they were.. they now have to listen to me who said its summer league.. who said therre is no offense ran it is a glorified AAU game where people who have no business trying to put the ball in the bucket are taking 15 shots to try and make a roster.. no offense no flow and if you watched you would realize most of the problems were stagnant offense poor spacing and a bunch of one on one.. so this idea that you can hate after 6 summer league games and continue to rip and now that he is in the REAL games and playing well you cant own to the fact that you were wrong is hilarious and just shows how some of you are... I have been on this site for years not with alot of posts but i enjoy reading what alot of you have to say. i fill in here and there what i read on dion has caused me to add my two cents.. if you claim to know basketball then please reply to me right now and explain to me how in your right mind you could still claim this kid will be a bust.. Before you get ahead of your self realize he is a rookie he will have down times he will have a 3 or 4 game stretch where he struggles to reach double digits you must view him as a rookie not as a vet there are growing pains.. what he has done and showed goes a long way towards the basketball character, heart and intelligence he has.. and who ever is neging me face me and prove to me why the neg is coming?

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The hate is gone, most NBA

The hate is gone, most NBA GMs know what they are doing, that is why the final draft order is more important than how analysts rank players. They have seen the players a lot more than us, in the workouts and have studied their gametape indepth.

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Thankyou. People were hating

Thankyou. People were hating on hime because he was mocked to go late lottery or whatever and casual fans like us say it is a rach to take him fourth. Newsflash: NBA GMs know more than we do.

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After reading multiple

After reading multiple scouting reports, watching youtube vidoes, reading ESPN articles, and looking at litteraly hundreds of big boards/mock drafts fans like myself tend to forget that.

Mr. 19134
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What I have been trying to

What I have been trying to tell people since rumors of him going 4th leaked on draft day and then the Cavs really took him 4th is that on talent it was far from a reach. I'm from and live in Philly and trust me when I tell you Dion Waiters has always been a prodigy. He a disapointing freshman year where he was ready to transfer and Scoop (another Philly guy) talked him back. Waiters has always reminded people of Tyreke Evans with a jump shot which is a scary thought.

Waiters is still only 20 years old and lives for the moment. Syracuse was one of the best teams in the nation last year because of Waiters. Waiters was their closer. He was the star that carried them. Him coming off the bench had nothing to do with talent and if anything it might of had more to do with Boeheim wanting to have Waiters return for his JR. year.

With college basketball tipping off tonight could you imagine if Waiters was still playing for 'Cuse? He would be my pick for National Player of the Year and would probably only have CJ McCollum to worry about for the nations scoring title. Waiters would of played himself into a top 3 pick most likely as a JR and would of been the first guard selected (Bazz is a wing player) in the draft.

Finally the rest of the world is starting to realize what guys who knew him have known for awhile, Dion Waiters is a really special talent.

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I DVRed the Phoenix game

and I'm in the second quater now. Even after the Summer League and some preseason difficulties I still believed that he was special. He can do some things others cant that cant be taught at this stage in their development. Byron Scott still hasnt Unleashed the Dion. He still rarely breaks guys down one on one, mostly pick and roll or jumpers. He has the handles to take guys to the rack in the half court isolated on one side of the court. Once he gets the green light and confidence to do that more he will put up points even more consistantly.

Besides having the ball in a post players hands with his back to the basket, the most dangerous position a offense can be in is a guard with a live dribbble 16 feet in. Either the way T Parker and Nash used to dribble all the way under the hoop or Jeremy Lin (for all his faults is excellent at it", Mark Jackson and especially Rod Strickland. Neon Dion can do that effectively, he has that high dribble and body control that guys cant reach around him like those guys do. Everybody else on the defense has to react and help.

The Waiter's Haters know they dont have steam left.

ballaj334
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But I am still catching

But I am still catching negatives.. i wish this site would should who negs what.. unreal... It's good to see people are real about this whole thing.. thats what you call manning up these other people are cowards and are probably duke/unc "diehard" fans who only watch them and no other basketball and feel that only their players are worth real clout.. i mean people were saying Ross should of went before him absolutely insane.. Other people were saying he wsnt a top 5 sg in the draft lmao... come on fellas

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Dude I remember that thread (top 5 shooting guards)

I remember a few people didnt even have him in the top 5. I remember asking someone "what parallel universe is Doran Lamb better than Dion Waitors". Im about to go back in the forum and find it.

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We may not have won but Dion

We may not have won but Dion Ball hard Waiters certainly showed up. Crazy because before the game they didn't even know if he would play! Loving our backcourt!

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3/25/2012 http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/dion-waiters-1

Waitor's is a grown man, might as well leave

I don't know about the lottery but I know if I were Terance Ross, Rivers or Lamb, I wouldnt work out with him at the same time for teams in the lottery. He is a grown man and he did get jobbed on alot of calls. It stopped him from building momentum and he is a emotion/confident guy, so thats important for him. I am a devout OSU fan also, I can tell u the games of the whole bench, even though the Ohio State's 7 thru 11th men are only a myth. The ref's were bad all around though and some of those foul decepensy is from Cuse fouling at the end. They got like 8 to 10 fouls in the last 3 minutes on purpose. Waitors perticularly got hosed though, I reluctantly admit. I wish he could fall to the Cavs with the Laker's pick but its No Way he lasts that long, he's mini tough juice. He and Kyrie's driving and finishing ability would be tough to stop.

This was from march before the drum up.

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3/25/2012 http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/dion-waiters-1

Waitor's is a grown man, might as well leave

I don't know about the lottery but I know if I were Terance Ross, Rivers or Lamb, I wouldnt work out with him at the same time for teams in the lottery. He is a grown man and he did get jobbed on alot of calls. It stopped him from building momentum and he is a emotion/confident guy, so thats important for him. I am a devout OSU fan also, I can tell u the games of the whole bench, even though the Ohio State's 7 thru 11th men are only a myth. The ref's were bad all around though and some of those foul decepensy is from Cuse fouling at the end. They got like 8 to 10 fouls in the last 3 minutes on purpose. Waitors perticularly got hosed though, I reluctantly admit. I wish he could fall to the Cavs with the Laker's pick but its No Way he lasts that long, he's mini tough juice. He and Kyrie's driving and finishing ability would be tough to stop.

This was from march before the drum up.

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Most guys weren't high on

Most guys weren't high on dion being picked that early because of what happened in 2005 when marvin Williams was taken ahead of CP3 and deron Williams, looked like deja vu

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Can you please explain how

Can you please explain how Marvin Williams and Dion Waiters were even comparable going into the draft?

Marvin was a rare 6'9 combo forward who had the physical tools to do whatever he wanted but just never really developed into what he could have.

Dion is a 6'4" combo guard who already prooved to be a big time scorer and shot maker. Dion's shooting ability was the main reason people slept on him they didn't realize he could shoot so well. Dion is a deadly one on one scorer with a great handle and pull up jumper but unlike guys like Austin Rivers, Waiters is equally effective shooting from spotting up.

If the Cavs would of drafted Perry Jones over Dion Waiters then it would of been just like 2005.

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He's better than I thought he

He's better than I thought he would be early, but its a long season. I won't concede to be proven wrong until Feb. He went 5/15 the other night and this forum was silent, but he had another good game and he's ROY. I'm one of his biggest critics, and I knew he'd score in Cleveland. I just think his FG % will drop considerably over the course of the season. I stand by my prediction. 13.2 ppg, 2 rpg 2 apg 38% FG

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The thing is he is playing

The thing is he is playing for Cleveland and they are Guard dominant. There was some d league players least year putting up crazy numbers too but he is not currently in the League right now. Lester Hudson was in Beast mode for Cleveland last year putting up better numbers than this and he is not on any NBA team that I know of. I think it is great what he is doing but don't get caught up in stats. I have not seen any of their game but a lot of analyst are saying that he takes bad shots but makes them and considering he may not be able to keep this up and would not be able to do this on most teams, I think his going number 4 looks okay but is still questionable when Cavs could have just kept Lester Hudson for cheap to do the same thing.

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Teams will take note of him

Teams will take note of him now. They'll scout him and make adjustments. His #s will go down, but this will be good for the Cavs because teams won't just focus on kyrie

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Lester Hudson had big games

Lester Hudson had big games with the Cavs, Donald Sloan did as well, Cavs are guard oriented, he has suprised me tho won't lie.

But i'm with JoeWolf and Sheltwon, it's a long season and he still has to perform for 70+ games.

My jury is still out on him.

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Dion is certainly well ahead

Dion is certainly well ahead of where I thought he would be now. I have said that in my mind it was a reach but I'm not Chris Grant and don't have his analysis tools at my disposal and I will always recall the quote Grant made after they drafted Dion. "We like the sort of shots, he takes" they saw his choice of shot and range as something which could fit their roster well.

After Coach Scott pulled Dion from a pre-season game, it seems to have given him a real kick up the butt and the fact that he got starts from day one shows that Coach Scott must have faith in him. I would have thought if he had cracked starting rotation by the end of this season he would have been doing well.

He must have a legit shot at ROY if he keeps anywhere near this level although I still favour Anthony Davis for that role.

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@JoeWolf I remenber

@JoeWolf I remenber specifically telling you that Dion Waiters is a better shooter then 38% on your prediction forum. Kemba Walker shot lik3 38% last year and he's like 6'0 solid. Waiters is not only a better natural shooter, but is much bigger and won't have the same problem getting his shot off like Walker did last year.

But seriously the main problem and the real reason Waiters was so undervalued going into the draft is because most people didn't realize how good of a shooter he was. I said in a thread awhile ago that Waiters is a better shooter then Beal, a much better ball handler, and the same size, therefore I didn't understand what made Beal such a better prospect.

Now if going into the draft people realized that Waiters was one of the best shooters in the draft to go along with his already renowned one on one ability would 4 still seem like a reach? If people realized he was only 20, was a big time shot maker, always stepped up in the clutch, was as good if not better shooter then guys like Beal, Lillard and Lamb, and was a much better ball handler then all of them, would it still seem like a reach at 4?

But the most important note to take away from this experience is to NEVER UNDERESTIMATE PHILLY GUARDS.

Seriously Tyreke Evans took the league by storm and I remenber going into that draft alot of people had him at the end of the lottery because he couldn't shoot and wasn't a pure PG. Well he isn't a pure a PG and he still can't shoot but he's a heck of a player.

Kyle Lowry was always underrated in Memphis and even in Houston. Now he leads Toronto in every stat except for blocked shots, and you'd have to be a fool to think Mike Conley is still better then Lowry.

Jameer Nelson was suppose to be a product of playing with Dwight Howard except Nelson showed up for the playoffs last year and Howard didn't and he still get's overlooked.

All these Philly guards grew up watching Iverson tenacity and relentless attacking mode on the court and started implementing Iverson's take no prisoners approach to their own game and it's fun to see it working in the new generation.

When you see Waiters with the ball at the top of the key and watch him hesitate right then put it between his legs as he jab steps with his left foot, as he puts it between his legs again before pulling up for a 20 footer that's all A.I.

ballaj334
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I do not want to hear the 5

I do not want to hear the 5 for 15 argument he is a rookie im not talking about him like he will be an all star this year. He is averaging 17 points and shooting 48.6 percent.. and another hting this 38 percent from the field crap? That isnt even nba caliber man... if someone shoots 38 percent from the field as a starter and shoots the maount dion will this year he would likely be shipped to the dleague so going off your ideas dion will be a dleaguer?

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You don't want to hear about

You don't want to hear about his games that are subpar, but you want to bring up every game in which he does well? It sounds like you just like to make statements and expect everyone to agree. I've been one of his biggest critics, and I'm not going to just roll over on my opinion, when he goes off a couple of times. Like I said, I'll admit when I'm wrong, but I'm not going to bail on my opinion one week into the season.

As for rookie shooting percentages. Guards usually throw up crappy shooting percentages as rookies, even guys that end up being very good players. You mentioned Kemba Walker, so I'll exclude him, but here are some more Examples.

Brandon Knight - 41%

Jimmer Fredette - 38%

Norris Cole - 39%

E'Twan Moore - 38%

John Wall - 40%

Rajon Rondo - 41%

Deron Williams - 42%

Russell Westbrook - 39%

Monta Ellis - 41%

Brandon Jennings - 37%

Allen Iverson - 41%

Kobe Bryant - 41%

James Harden - 40%

Jason Kidd - 38%

Chauncey Billups - 37%

Mo Williams - 38%

Rodney Stuckey - 40%

These shooting percentages were something I was well aware of before predicting 38%. It's not like I threw a low number because I don't like him. IT"S BECAUSE ROOKIE GUARDS SHOOT LOW PERCENAGES. It is a fact. Just about every guard in the NBA increased their FG% after their rookie year. Not everyone who chucks up a sub 40% FG as a rookie, goes to the D-League. Many of these players were on All-Rookie 1st and 2nd teams, and some will find themselves in the Hall of Fame.

ballaj334
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no you just made my point. He

no you just made my point. He is going to have games where he struggles.. that is my point he is a rookie you are stating he is a tretch for 4th over all pick then throw out numbers like those to show what? Those are people who prove that you can shoot a low percentage and be a significant player in the nba. Thank you for making my point even more... To say he is a stretch then compare him to those players is hilarious man

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What? I really doubt the

What? I really doubt the reading comprehension on this site sometime. You attacked me for predicting a low shooting percentage so I countered that with something I already know, and it seems you don't. Rookie guards generally shoot low percentages. I provided many examples of players who shot low percentages as rookies and were not sent to the D-League or glued to the bench, like you think would happen to a rotation player shooting a low clip.

That doesn't prove you right, I could come up with examples of guys who didn't stick shooting similar percentages. Proving you right? You can't be proven right 10 days into the season. Saying he should have been the 2nd pick can't be proven for a few years. It's not like predicting a rookie to drop 13 ppg incinuates I think he sucks, just that he shouldn't have been picked so high.

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Joe Wolf he is saying that

Joe Wolf he is saying that you are making his point by you saying that Dion should not have went 4th and part of the reason is because you predict that he will only shoot 38% this year. However, after saying that you throw out this list with plenty of studs on it. This shows that plenty of guards who have shot that low their rookie year turned out to be well worth being the 4th pick of the draft. You may have proved your point that 38% was not a ridiculously low number, but he said you helped his point in the overall debate. The error in reading comprehension may have been your own Mr. Wolf. Don't be so angry/defensive as you have been lately, it is not becoming of you.

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I don't think it does.

I don't think it does. Jermaine O'Neil would have looked like one of the worst players in his draft 10 days into his rookie season. As would Kobe Bryant, Zach Randolph, Dirk, Andrew Bynum, and Rajon Rondo. His orginal point is that he is proving he should have been the 2nd pick. My constant message, throughout everything, is that it's too early. Listing guys who shot low percentages doesn't help prove that Dion Waiters should have been the 2nd pick.

Speaking of tones, this is a much better one for you.

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MKG was the 2nd pick and just

MKG was the 2nd pick and just had a big game that helped his team win. MKG can defend on an NBA level right now. In order for Dion to be consider for a 2nd round pick you would have to place him about MKG who is bigger more athletic and a better defender. The offense is already ahead of schedule. I will say I was wrong for doubting this kid MKG. Also Drummonds is a legit center and had a big game too. Both of these players plus Anthony Davis are better than Dion and have a higher potential. Damian Lillard is even better than him. That is about 4 rookies that are better than him with higher or similar potential. Lillard is leading a very good team in the West that will probably make the playoffs.
Let's see here

Anthony Davis (1)
MKG (2)
Damian Lillard(6)
Andre Drummonds(9)

Bradley Beal(4) just had a good game after outplaying Dion in the preseason

Barnes(7) is looking average right now but he could do like he did at NC and play better later on as the game slow down for him. Reminds me of how Klay Thompson started out before the Monte trade.

Terrence Ross(8) is a good athlete and shooter who is not getting minutes from Toronto so jury is still out on him
Jeremy Lamb(12) look good in preseason and summer league but is not getting minutes right now in OKC.

It is still too early to say was drafted to high but I am sure that he was not drafted too low because there at least 4 rookies that if they stay healthy will continue to be better than him. Right now I see him as maybe a Rodney Stuckney type. He would have be Wade like to past up 2 of the 4 I mentioned above. He will not pass Davis and Drummonds though. Big men with the kind of speed they have and athleticism trump guards.

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^ Agree completely with

^

Agree completely with Sheltwon. #4 to #6 in the draft class seems right around where Waiters value is at the moment. I don't think anybody would argue that Davis has been deserving of being the #1 pick, Lillard I think has been very impressive as the focal point of the Portland offense, MKG is already a very good defender who helps out in many facets on the court where Waiters is largely invisible at the moment. Drummond has shown alot of promise especially as a rebounding big man and rim protector and for a true center that probably raises his value. IMO Brad Beal has been just as impressive over the last few games, without John Wall or a low post scorer he's been trying to carry the Wizards offense and has done a great job over the last 3 games, he also seems more active on the boards and the defensive end of the floor than Waiters.

Don't get me wrong, Waiters is proving that the Cavs certainly didn't reach for him in the draft, but I wouldn't be so quick to christen him the #2 pick in the class.

One thing I will say: This 2012 draft is looking a lot stronger than I gave it credit for being in the spring.

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