Derrick Rose vs Russel Westbrook is over
The gap between these two PGs are actually closer than their stats indicate. Yes, Rose is a phenomenal scorer for a PG, but Westbrook is a potential lockdown defensive PG (if hes not already), while Rose's defense is pretty bad, its actually as bad as Nash, which is puzzling considering how athletic he is. I think Westbrook's ability to play at a high level at both offense/defense makes the gap between them pretty close, but I would still take Rose because he has "Franchise Player" type talent, he just needs to tighten up his defense.
I think Rose is the winner in this debate and Thibs will likely help turn Rose into the stud defender that he should be. As for Westbrook, he is very very good and he still has tons of room to grow. The thing is he knows this. I have a feeling that once his contract is up that there is a good chance he bolts and tries to go somewhere to be the man on his own. I don't think of him as being selfish, but I think he will want to be recognized and that's going to be hard to do playing with Durant because by that time Durant might literally be the best player in the league.
not everyone needs to showcase their talent. im not saying westbrook couldnt leave but okc will offer him very good money to be the second option and lockdown defender. there is nothing wrong with playing in someones shadow your whole career. he can still carve out a nice living and legacy as the second guy, just ask scottie pippen.
I doubt Westbrook leaves. I just don't see it happening.
As for the debate, I'm also an OKC fan, and I agree with you. Rose is faster, better handle, better shooter and better passer, although Westbrook (I believe) is a better athlete and has All-Star potential. Can't go wrong with either one
Rose is clearly the better PG and its been obvious since they were both in college and rose dominated him while he was at ucla and these past 2 seasons roses progression has dwarfed westbrooks, and contrary to what people may think rose is not a bad defender he is not the best but he is not a liability and he is clearly the better shooter idk what people see when they say his shot is slightly better
dolla's right about Rose's defense. Game, he seems to make one less mistake. One less bite on the pumpfake, one less crossover, and he's shown in his series where he shuffled and kept up with Rondo driving. His hands aren't velcro like Paul's or as quick as Westbrook or Rondo, but in terms of man-to-man defense, his improvement has me excited. This year I think Rose solidifies his status as a top tier point guard, and maybe Nash slips. I think by the end of the year he will have established himself as a top 3 point guard in the league.
still say westbrook. Are you really backing up youre arguement by fiba play?..if thats the case its still westbrook , guess youi didnt watch the game where he was mvp huh. westbrook can score just as much as rose but is also a much better defender.
I think both of them are still pretty raw offensively, but Rose has the edge at the moment. Westbrook is a better defender by a good margin. When it comes to athleticism, it's really a toss up in my opinion. Both of them are borderline to above average playmakers for a starting PG spot, and especially for up and coming, all-star caliber PGs.. They'll probably get better in playmaking as time goes by. It's easier to drop dimes for guys like Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay, and Durant in FIBA play than the average team mate in NBA play. They need to be good enough playmakers to make average players better and real threats. I'm not trying to take away from the scoring point guard, in a general sense, but I judge a PG for his playmaking ability, first and foremost.
im not backing it up by fiba play but come on have you been watching the games you can clearly tell who is better by the way they run the team when there in the game.. even watching nba games what does russel westbrook have over rose besides defense and roses defense is not bad at all if anything its above average
im not backing it up by fiba play but come on have you been watching the games you can clearly tell who is better by the way they run the team when there in the game.. even watching nba games what does russel westbrook have over rose besides defense and roses defense is not bad at all if anything its above average
yes ive been watching the games but this is fiba not the nba. theres alot of guys on other teams that look better then some of the usa players. hell a couple guards looked better then curry does that mean id take them over curry?..hellll now. and watching it both players get into the lane. both get to the foul line. both put up points. westbrook has shown to be the better defender of course and the better rebounder so im not sure which games some of yall have been watching
Eric gordan has looked better then both of them so i guess hes better too huh
rondo is better then both but he got cut/quit so is he worst then them as well as curry now?
using these fiba games to say whos better holds no weight at all. like using a allstar game with different rules then the nba to determine whos a better player
you have a good point but Im not basing all of it on the fiba play brother I mentioned in the nba to but fiba play and the all star game are totally different its nothing like an all star game, but regardless of what league or what kind of game even if its just a pick up game after evaluating a player in multiple games you can tell who the better player is..lets say westbrook was on chicago would he be able to run the team as efficiently as rose NO would they have the same amount of sucsess NO if westbrook was in Roses position they might not have made the playoffs last year
hey man ask anybody in the league who they would rather have running the show ask nba coaches ask the players ask anybody in the nba i will bet 7 to 8 out of 10 will say d rose you cant think hes better ok if you dont wanna base it on fiba base it on the nba season rose still comes out on top
who the hell keeps giving me negatives please bring yourself out..and tell me what i am saying that is wrong? is it all you die hard westbrook fans man i tell you people these days are so stubborn tell me anything anything! that you think gives westbrook the edge please i wanna know..im telling the truth if you guys think you know more than me about point guard play come at me its ridiculous man just please tell me how he is better??? i have watched so many of there games
Derrick Rose is the most overrated second year player I've ever seen. People want him to be so much better than he really is.
Now that he has a better team around him, and still doesn't average 7 dimes, and still gets booted in round one, there will be more excuses.
Westbrook actually IS better than him and he will continue to prove it.
16, 5 and 8 vs. 21, 4 and 6. You can't just say Rose is better and the topic doesn't deserve debate. That's just trying to dismiss an argument you can lose.
ok lets see what happens next year and if they get booted out the first round, he had freakin kevin durant on his team that helps alot with the assist man..what has he proved so far to say he is better then d rose..westbrook got booted out the first round himself derrick single handedly carried his team to the playoffs and had a great first round vs cleveland..Go ahead try me and i garuntee i wont lose the argument im not dismissing squat im listening to everything everyone is saying but give me a reason and i will reply and make you second guess yourself now basaglia how is he better?
The single most disgusting thing about Rose's ascension has been the scapegoating of Luol Deng for all that Rose CAN'T do...like average more dimes or get his team outta Round 1. Meanwhile, Deng was dropping 26 per game and winning series against the defending champs when he was Rose's age.
Don't make it seem like Rose is some lone gun on a team with no talent. He's not T-Mac with Orlando, someone who really was taking scrub teams to the playoffs.
No, Nash is not the worst defender in the league, but hes certainly not any good. But Rose's defense is on the same level as Nash, which is no excuse considering hes 3 times the athlete Nash is. With his speed and quickness, Rose should also atleast be getting more steals and causing more turnovers in passing lanes, basically what im implying is hes not a good on ball and off ball defender, but hes young and he has plenty of time to fix it. Perhaps this new Bulls coach can make him improve his defense, he did coach Rondo after all.
rose had to score this year my man he didnt have to average more assist theres only so much loul deng can do hes not a great scorer like durant and your flat out making stuff up he never averaged 26 in his life in any series..dont get me wrong he has talent but you cannot say the bulls have anything close to the talent okc has..do you realize they played cleveland there first round of course there not gonna get out the first round.. The point is chicago did not have a good 1st option outside of rose luol deng is not a good 1st option at all! its hard to average alot of dimes with the team he has he needs to score
honestly, give me westbrook.
he's a better defender (on & off ball), & hits the boards harder.
I'm not gonna sit here and claim westbrook is a way better playmaker, cuz his #'s .. bc a lot of his assists came from simple backdoors & alley-oops. but, i do think he takes less time to set up offense.. than d-rose.
rose just has that control. He just plays a different style, and his handle is crisper (imo, that's what makes him a better scorer).
If westbrook can really tighten up his handle, its a wrap.
Im not sure why some of you are so shocked that people think Westbrook is the better player. I think some of you might need to take a look inside yourselves and conquer you Derrick Rose man-crushes.
Someone said would you please tell me what Westbrook has over Rose? The obvious answer is defense and rebounding. He is much better in both those categories. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. You could easily make the arguement that Westbrook's stats from last season are better. Right now I would have to say Rose might be the better player by a pretty small margin.
I tend to believe however that Westbrook will have a better career. I have been extremely impressed by how much he has improved his offensive game. He was either held back by the system at UCLA or has put in some serious time in the gym. I never would have thought he would average 8 assists that soon in his career. Not too mention his athletic gifts, and his desire to be a great defender and rebounder. He seems like a very talented player, with the work ethic to reach his full potential. I think this bodes well for his future.
I just don't get the feeling Rose has that fire and determination to fully develop his talents. I could be wrong of course but thats what I have observed so far about these guys. Once again at this moment in time I agree Rose has the slight edge, but if I had to pick one to start a team it would be Russell.
That's stupid. Saying Rose doesn't have fire? What have you observed exactly? Westbrook's high assist numbers come from this guy named Kevin Durant, Derrick Roses' best teammate last year was Joakim Noah or Luel Deng. You have no basis for saying Rose doesn't have the determination. Have you seen how much his jumpshot improved? Did you notice that when he was healthy last year he was a monster? If he hadn't hurt his ankle his assist and scoring numbers would likely be up 1-2 each easy. Your comment is a joke. Like really, what fire have you seen in OKC's second option that you don't see in the leader of the Bulls?
Wow did I touch a nerve or something? Calm down little buddy. You do not know these players personally, neither do I. So any comments about the mindset or personality of players is pure SPECULATION. That means you don't know for a fact, but you make a prediction based on what you see. You speculate that Rose will be better, I speculate that Westbrook will be better.
Do you normally get this fired up when someone has a differing opinion...a little childish, no? I didn't even say he doesn't have fire, of course he does he's a pro athlete. I said he hasn't shown me the same fire as Westbrook to improve his game. I'm not the only one who has questioned this guys intensity, so you can go ahead and lose that attitude like we are dealing with facts and you have proved me wrong.
And how about an intelligent arguement this time huh? Instead of saying "thats stupid" followed irrelevant comments laced with sarcasm. Now that is a joke.
OK westbrook is a better rebounder and defender But rose is the more dominate player and and he is the more feared player rose has that IT factor that paul and williams have and i dont see that from westbrook. just because rose dosent yell and stare down his teammates does not mean he dosent have that fire or w.e u think he dosent have he wants to be great and win just as much as the next man or even more.. and out of all the teams in the nba 26 out of the 30 would choose rose over westbrook including the thunder if they were starting a franchise because rose has that type of talent and westbrook is a porject
OK westbrook is a better rebounder and defender But rose is the more dominate player and and he is the more feared player rose has that IT factor that paul and williams have and i dont see that from westbrook. just because rose dosent yell and stare down his teammates does not mean he dosent have that fire or w.e u think he dosent have he wants to be great and win just as much as the next man or even more.. and out of all the teams in the nba 26 out of the 30 would choose rose over westbrook including the thunder if they were starting a franchise because rose has that type of talent and westbrook is a project and will take longer to come along
It's stupid because you have absolutely no basis of how to make that claim. Yes, his on-court intensity has been questioned. He is a laid back guy, and a leader by example, that 'lack of intensity' doesn't correlate to not having the mindset to improve at all. You must not watch Mr. Rose play all that often. I'll just say this: Rose and Westbrook both had the same knock coming out of college, neither could shoot. (As well as Westbrook being a combo guard). Rose has noticably improved his jump shot, especially from midrange maybe even to the point you can call it a strength, you can not say the same for Russel. I don't know what games you're watching or why you think anything I previously said was childish. I actually find it funny you think I lost my cool, I'm as calm as always. Disagreeing with me doesn't upset me, when what you said is 100% guess and has little to no proof is when I shoot something down. Next time you make points, have something to back them up please.
Actually I do have something to base it on, it's based on what I see just like I already said. In my mind Westbrook has improved more rapidly than Rose has, and is a more intense player, which in many cases is a sign of a passion for the game. For me to be completely sold on Rose I need to see him be more of a vocal leader and committ to playing D (all aspects of the game that are more mental than physical). I believe those things are preventing Rose from becoming the player he should be. For you to tell me I'm basing my opinion on nothing is not only false but its ignorant.
How can you try to tell me what I'm basing my opinion on? Now that is stupid, you do not know whats going through my head and how I'm forming my opinions. If we are going by your logic then nobody can say &$#%#&@! about anyone except for spouting off stats.
Anytime we are talking about a players personality or anything else for that matter it is a guess, deal with it. This is a draft website, speculation and guessing is what analyzing players is all about. Not just random guesses, but educated one's based on what you observe. You must think this site is stupid too then, as well as the whole concept of scouting. We are not dealing with facts here man, what do you think this is?
I'm saying nothing you have said is even provable really or to make it more clear, you just appear to be wrong. Rose must commit to D, yes. Russell may have improved more then Rose as a rookie but no way in hell did he this year. Westbrook is a great defender and a rebounder, everything else belongs to Rose. I don't see how you can argue that. He is a cool, calm leader and everyone seems to think he has the 'it' factor except you. I love scouting, I just completely disagree with nearly everything you said. Nothing against you, I'm sure you're a cool dude and all. I just can't really agree with much of what you said.
Once again you are not comprehending that I think Rose is a better player, which I have stated numerous times. I simply think Westbrook will have a better overall career, based on watching both of them play and listening to my gut. I know Rose is a great player, and yes I'm aware he has improved his jumper.
You also appear to be incapable of grasping the concept of defense. You have admitted Westbrook is a better defender, but your dimissing it like its some insignifiant detail. This is half the game we are talking about. Hellooo?
Your calling me stupid for saying something that isn't "provable"? Of course it isn't provable nothing anybody says on here is provable. Thats why it's called an opinion. Nothing you have said is provable, or anything other people have said for that matter. Thats is the most absurd arguement I have ever heard here, and thats really all your saying here and acting like your Phil Jackson. I find it interesting that you are this sure that you are right. You acting like these guys are in too different echelons of talent, which i simply not the case. As if players never have dissapointing or surprisingly good careers. I have a different perspective on this than you, it happens. I suggest you open your mind and lose the smugness. It will serve you well.
on that note...peace out. this convo is stale
http://www.suite101.com/content/miami-heat-get-bulled-a20212
"Conversely, Luol Deng took his game to the next level, averaging 26.3 points per game, 9.0 rebounds per game, 1.8 steals per game, shot 58% from the field and 85% from the line."
So, please stop saying Rose has no one to pass to.
Anybody who says Westbrook is better than Rose either just dislikes Rose, or is a biased Westbrook/OKC fan.
Rose is clearly the better player. Westbrook still can't shoot, is turnover prone, out of control, doesn't make the best decisions in the half-court and overpenetrates. Westbrook's greatest asset is on the defensive end.
Rose is a monster. Most of the FIBA guards are good athletes. They aren't jaw dropping, but they are good athletes with very good skills. But to watch Rose blow past them and then actually gain separation WITH the basketball is truly astonishing. Explosiveness is one thing, but explosiveness and speed with the control that Rose has is truly rare. He reminds me of a bigger, stronger version of Kevin Johnson.
I agree Indianabasketball.
I mean, watch the 2 play and it's obvious to me that Rose is better. I think if you switched Westbrook to Chicago, they wouldn't have made the playoffs. I also think if you put Rose on OKC he would be more productive, efficient, and less TO-prone than Westbrook has been
I'll say this though... At one point last season, I thought Westbrook had closed the gap between he and Rose. However, I think that once Rose got healthy, he clearly separated himself from Westbrook as a player.
The playoffs were even more proof for me. Kobe disrupted Westbrook's entire game just by playing off of him, while Rose was making life miserable for Cleveland.
This summer hasn't been any different either. It's FIBA, but Rose has continued to show that he's a better player. I think this will be the season that Rose squashes the debate completely.
I remember this past post season when Westbrook had a great series vs the lakers someone posted a topic on this forum of who is a better player Russel Westbrook or Derrick Rose and in a good debate some people actually had the nerve to say Westbrook is a better player and a better point guard, if you know basketball you know Rose is a better point guard and now that we see them on the same team together you can clearly see who is better. Rose is faster (possibly one of the fastest men on the planet with a basketball), just as explosive, he has more handle and is more under control, has better vision, and now he has a slightly better jumpshot, and is overall just a better point guard that can run the show. Now don't get me wrong I like both of them so there is no bias here but common fellas I don't care how much of a okc fan you are you cannot tell me he is a better basketball player then derrick rose, the only thing you can compare between the two is who is a better athlete now that would be a good argument.