Derrick Rose- Not Just The MVP
Im starting to believe that Derrick Rose is the best player in the game. Realisticly though he needs to improve on the defensive end of the court, but if you think about it he does play PG on perhaps the best defensive team in the NBA, so its not like his defense is really holding his team back. Rose wins games. When he wants his team to score they will likely be scoring. The kid wins games. He has perimeter skills, blow by crossovers, beautiful floaters, a jumper, he can spot up, pull up, finish amazingly and he even has post up and paint skills. He is a very underrated player and this years MVP by a longshot. If someone asks me who the best player in the league is, Im saying D Rose.
Rose is going to average the most PPG in the NBA during this years playoffs.
Nah man, I still think it is Lebron James. In fact, I'd take Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant over Derrick Rose. Rose is great don't get me wrong, but I'd take a dominant big man, and two unbelievable swing guys over him.
He's the MVP, isn't that enough?
Rose has a lot to improve. I'm as big a fan of him as anyone but he isn't the best. LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, and maybe Wade/Durant are still probably better. He needs to play better defense. Also he got hot from 3 midseason but since then he has taken way too many and his percentage dropped dramatically. He needs to cut down the turnovers and improve his shot slection a little while continuing to work on jumper. I do love how often he gets to the line now though.
give me Shake-n-Blake
Kinda contradictory saying he's kinda underrated and the MVP by a long shot at the same time isn't it? I think with improved D and continued maturation of his jumper he could well be the best some day.
I'll say this, he is more of a leader at 22 than LBJ will ever be.
How is Rose more of a leader then LeBron?
Woah, lets not get out of hand here. The reason why Lebron and Kobe are up there is because they kind of hurt you in more than one way. Rose is scoring, but he isn't making everyone around him better. Rose is an amazing player, and I'll even let you slide with calling him a top 5 player. But to take him over Lebron and Kobe is going a little too far. Maybe in the near future, but as of right now, I have yet to see why he should be the best player in the game.
LeBron is a clown.
Hey remember that time he quit on his team in the playoffs?
Rose has made everyone on his team better......at every level
List of Rose haters on NBADraft.net
But by that logic, Rose is a better leader then Kobe because Kobe quit that one time as well....
BKknicksfan? He called D-Rose a top 5 player at like midseason before most others. I don't think he is a hater.
He is kind of a hater on Rose
I'm a Rose hater now? The hell? I liked Rose when he wasn't as phenomenal. I'll admit, I'm a little disgusted with how much everyone is nut riding him, but its the same as how everyone got sick of everyone nut riding Lebron James a year ago. If anything, you just insulted Lebron calling him a clown. I have yet to insult Rose. I don't understand. Its clear that you are just looking for ways to call any player better than Lebron. Thats what it seems like to me. I'll go ahead and tank the negatives this time around. I don't care, Rose hasn't made the rest of his team better in anyway. He's filling in the scoring gap which is understandable. But Westrbrook, and Chris Paul can do the same.
LeBron is a clown.......try and debate that.
By you saying Rose doesn't make his teammates better, you show me you don't know all that much about basketball. Not just stats, but being a leader and getting guys to play better.
Rose is one of the top 3 players imo, with Lebron and Howard being the other two players. People overrate Kobe nowdays, he's still good but he has gotten older. And Rose is better than Wade. I would probably rank Rose #2 behind Lebron.
And Rose has always made his teamates better, he's one of the few guys that actually does that.
And I never said Rose was better than LeBron....I said he is a better leader.
But how is he a better leader. Explain that...
Has nothing to do with how he plays. Lol you enjoy your stats, in fact i'll wait for you to pull them out. I could care less. To call Lebron a less leader than Rose is foolish as well. Lol I gee, I wonder how Lebron lead his team to 61 wins last year with arguably a worse off crew than what Rose has right now. You enjoy the rest of your evening sipping on hateraid. Peace.
I said it's not all about stats. You should read before you type.
LeBron is possibly the most talented player ever. But he had to join forces to try and win a title. Rose didn't want his ass in Chicago, and who finished with a better record? Rose wants to be THE leader of his team, not a co-leader.
Rose definitely makes his teammates better, I don't know how that is debatable.
What does Lebron have to do with this thread. I dont get it. Lebron has just as much to do with this thread as Durant, Anthony, Howard, Bryant, Pierce, Nowitzki, Gasol etc. You are really narrow minded if you think me saying Rose is the one player I would say is the best means I hate Lebron.
The reason Lebron is not the best is because it is unclear if he will make the plays down the stretch to win tough games consistantly, he is undoubtadly a contraversial leader, and he lacks a go to scoring move. Someone his size should also have a post game but lets not get picky. He is the best talent in the game but not the best player.
Id rather have Rose and Durant over Howard because in the clutch Howards FT shooting...
Dont want Carmelo because he tends to make very selfish plays, and does not really play within a system. He needs the system to be geared towards him and doesnt gear his talents towards systems. We saw that his whole time in Denver and are now seeing it in New York. He also tends to coast at times.
As for Durant he is an excellent scorer and a good defender when he wants to be. He gets his 7-rpg and plays solid defense, while displaying great leadership, although I think Roses playmaking is an asset I would rather have.
Dan-E-Boy Rose thought they were coming (or at least Lebron was) to Chicago. He was suprised when they (or he) didnt. I forget the exact story but I remember Rose was expecting...
But LeBron didn't play with worst teammates and got them to 60 wins? Chicago had a better record because they have more depth, but mainly because look at some of the teams they played in the second half of the season. Easy final 30 games. Also, wasn't Chicago only like 5 games better? LeBron didn't tell Wade " Hey Dwyane uh, I'm scared of winning, can you help me?" No, Wade wanted to team up with LeBron. There's a reason why Wade and Bosh signed with Miami FIRST then LeBron had his own day. He was the mastermind in all this. Plus, can you blame LeBron for leaving Cleveland? Have you ever looked at Cleveland's history in FA and free agency? Cleveland isn't a good location for FA's like Chicago either.
Rose was expecting it becuase he didn't have a say so in it. You really think Rose wanted to share the spotlight with leBron? No way. He is a Chicago kid and this is his team.
Sipping my haterade watching Rose LEAD his team on a 19-5 run.
DanEboy are you a Chicago fan? Because you sound MAD bias right now.
I am totally biased. I live 4 blocks from the United Center. I wouldn't listen to anything I say.
his leadership is phenomenal
but lets please not forget what LeBron has been through as far as with the talent level. You can argue that Rose is the better leader at age 22 but LeBron's teams in his first 3 years consisted of
2003-2004: finished just outside of the playoffs with a roster of
- Jeff McInnis
- Ricky Davis
- Boozer (2 season though)
- Big Z
- Ira Newble, Kedrick Brown, Tony Battie, Kevin Ollie
2008-2009 Bulls made the playoffs but eliminated in the 1st round (epic matchup though)
- Kirk Heinrich
- Ben Gordan
- John Salmons (20 ppg after being traded then)
- Tyrus Thomas
- Brad Miller
- Noah, Deng, Nocioni
2004-2005 Cavs just missed the playoffs again
- Eric Snow
- Jeff McInnis
- Luke Jackson
- Big Z
- Pavolivic, Newble, Robert TRACTOR Traylor
2009-2010 Bulls (made the playoffs but lost to LeBron and company)
- Tyrus Thomas
- Taj Gibson, Warrick, Kirk Heinrich, and Brad Miller
2005-2006 Cavs made the playoffs, LeBrong got them out of the 1st round
- Damon Jones
- Larry Hughes
- Donyell Marshall
- Big Z
- Snow, Flip Murray, Gooden, and Luke Jackson
Bulls now (first seed overall, you all know the roster)
Now, I am not taking away from Rose and his season. He is an ELITE player. But Honest to god, unbaisedly, look at the roster LeBron had in his first 3 seasons. No where do I see the talent level that Rose had to begin with. A lot of people over look that. LeBron, as young as he was, led this team and carried them. Subtract lebron for those rosters and you are looking at the worst teams EVER in NBA history.
Just my two cents in the arguement
When I started this thread Rose had 2 points in the 1st qaurter. 4 minute left in the 3rd and he has 20...
Such an easy last 30 games right, only .500 team they lost to was the 76ers and Hawks. They beat the Spurs, the Heat twice, the Magic twice, the Hornets, the Hawks twice, the Jazz, the Suns, the Celtics, and the Knicks.
9-2 against .500 teams.
I really hope the Bulls play the Heat in the ECF. I'll be coming back to this thread when that series is over.
Whoa man. Bulls did lose to the Knicks on Christmas day if I remember.
The Eastern conference used to be horrible. Lebrons division was the worst in basketball since Detroits decline. Lets stick to this year anyways...
IMO Lebron is the best player in the NBA..... and its not even close. And he is still getting better
I liked how you called me out, but could anyone be hating on Rose when he hasn't even won a championship, much less gotten to a conference finals yet? That's just crazy talk. Wow, he's won this years MVP. Hell, Steve Nash has two MVPs when Kobe has one. The dude has been in the league for a few years, but there have been guys doing the things Rose is doing this year for years. Give him a few more years before we go calling him the best player in the league or even in the same league as LeBron right now. There are some guys that are obviously bias, and they're some that are objective about Rose. Rose is the flavor of the season, but I'd take 3-4 guys in the league before I take Rose. I'm not a "fan" or in other words, biased, but I'm sure as hell not a hater. I respect Rose as a player, and I recognize his talent, but some things you guys say is ludicrous.
Wow, DanEboy you are really biased, it's very blatant. I atleast try to watch what I say and be fair. Your arguments, if you can even call them that seem a little crazy, no offense man, your cool.
T.J. Ford is giving Rose the business as we speak.
Ford just hit a contested jumpshot and turned the ball over...His 3 was a prayer from mid court.
In fact...didn't the Knicks beat Chicago twice this season?
Since you posted that Rose got 2 assists and a 3.
I said I was biased...just like everyone else on this site.
By no means am I biased and by no means am I going with the "flavour of the year". Ive watched all these guys play all year. I just prefer Rose's style of play, he gets it when it counts and really rallies his teammates. If I were to start a team it would either be with Rose, Durant, or James in that order.
^^Correction Im biased towards the Raps but not towards Rose, he isnt even my favourite player.
If LeBron was still on Cle. I bet NONE of you guys would even be having this argument at all right now.
LeBron is a better player then Rose, it's not very close.
On a different note, that Batlefield 3 game look super cool.
1. during the summer everybody was on Durants nuts as the best player in the league
2. Right now he is the hottest player in the game doesnt mean hes the best
3. Kobe would still clown on him, and Lebron is the best player in the game still and for the forseeable future. He traded teams didnt lose his talents. Once he starts winning rings the HATRED will fade away .
Ok everyone probably knows I like Rose, but as of right now I would put him 4th or 5th on my top players list. But....Some of you still haven't seen the 2nd half of bulls games and still got an old reputation stuck in your head. Rose is not a bad defender. Rose is not an average defender. Rose is a good defender. I dont know where you guys keep saying this, people are not noticing how much he has improved on the defensive end since midway through the season. If you want proof here it is.
Top other point guards in the League ChrisPaul, D-Will, RR, Westbrook, and I'll throw in Steve Nash for the hell of it.
Going from the end of the season backwards to December, here is how many points these guys have scored vs Rose, and I am not leaving out one game, this is every match up in order from the end of the season with the point guards above.
Rondo- 10 points 3-10
Nash- 6 points 3-8
D-Will 5 points 1-12 yikes
Paul- 15 points 3-10
D-Will again-11 points 5-13
Westbrook- 15 points 7-18
Derrick Rose is THE most underated defensive player in the NBA. Rose has something about him, when he goes up againt the best, his defense goes from good to phenominal. Sure, he doesnt get a lot of steals hes not a gambler on defense, but steals does not make you a good or bad defender. He's starting to learn from Lebron what great athleticism can do in terms of chase down blocks and blocks more than any PG in the league which means barely anything coming from your point guard, just thought I would add that.
If anyone thinks Derrick Rose is still a bad defender since the 2nd half of the season I want proof, just a warning though I have seen every game, if you try and throw bs it wont work. Watching the games is the best way to evaluate how good a player is.
I May Be Wrong - Since when is anyone on here comparing careers? No one is comparing Roses Lebron as players other than where there games are at right now. Your argument proves no point. I personally think both are great leaders. But I know one thing about Rose, his teamates absolutely love playing with him, everyone of them. I have never heard such high praise out of an organization than I have heard about Rose. I dont know if you constitute that as leadership but I dont think thats true in every case for Lebron. And Btw, Salmons and Thomas werent on the 09-10 playoff team they were traded.
NYCarolina "Chicago had a better record because they have more depth, but mainly because look at some of the teams they played in the second half of the season. Easy final 30 games. Also, wasn't Chicago only like 5 games better?"
Dude whats it matter if they had an easier last 30 games. They had the hardest begining schedule out of every team, including the famous West Coast road trip, where normally a disaster, the Bulls had never came out of that stretch over .500 since Jordan. Well they did this season without Carlos Boozer. The fact that the majority of their hard schedule was in the first half just helps Rose's case because he was missing his big men for a long span during those games. Wasnt Chicago only 5 games better? Dude some people predicted the heat to win 70 wins this season, some ESPN NBA guys picked the Bucks to win the Central division. Im not knocking Lebron on this. The Bulls play more than the sum of their parts and Rose deserves a lot of credit for that. The Heat however still haven't been able to get the most out of their talent, but when they do then the Dynasty will begin.
Now why I think Rose is not a top 3 player yet is because of his shot selection, and lack of experience, and he needs to take his defense from good to great, and over the full course of the season.
Lebron is better than Rose and although I dont believe its a miles difference, hes very efficiencent and basically has Rose's athletism and strength built into a bigger frame. And yes Lebron is still improving, but Rose is improving faster.
I have already told you guys how Rose has improved on Defense, and his shot improved a ton but his shot selection has worsened. Whatever happened to Derrick Rose's mid range game, he was so lethal from that distance last year but now I feel settles way too much when he can get that mid range jumper whenever he wants.
But this is where Rose is just flat out scary. Vs the Pacers early this season, Rose had one free throw shot inorder to put the Bulls in OT and missed it. He was shooting around 76 percent up to that game. Guess what? since he missed that free throw, the guy has been shooting a blistering 89 percent from the line, including a game where he hit 3 straight free throws with no time on the clock and had to make everyone of them. Yes the same Derrick Rose that shot 70 percent at Memphis and 76 percent last year. What an amazing improvement that is. I believe he is a 90 percent freethrow shooter now which is absolutely insane if you look at the players that also shoot 90 percent. Only the elite shooters in the game are hitting those percentages. Rose still has a long way to go to get an elite three pointer, but in terms of freethrows hes one of the best in the league.
With that being said, I thought Rose played horrible tonight. His statline wasn't bad and once again led the Bulls to the win. He had some horrible turnovers, he did a bad job of adjusting to Indianas new defense which was basically aimed at trapping and doubling Rose. He shot 2 airballs from mid range and one was late in the game. Im sure he will bounce back in game 3. But this shows how stats can be a little deceiving.
For instance Im tired of announcers saying Rose went 0-9 from threes, technically yes he did, but good announcers know what a legit three point attempt is and what is not and say 0-6, something stats cant do. Rose shot 3 shots at the end of the quarters that game. 2 were from 3/4 court and the other one was a prayer also. I know its being picky, but 3 extra shot attempts water down what was a marvelous performance by Rose in game one, which he really scored 39 in 19 shot.
Sorry for the long posts, props to anyone who read it all.
I like how everybody assumes Lebron will just start winning rings. Because how it happens, individual players just start winning rings. lets forget about who he is playing with, what happens in the future, who he plays against, if he gets injured or not, lets just pencil him in for 3 or 4 titles.