Via Bill Simmons
(Speaking of Gilbert Arenas) "He's the all-time "came back too soon" cautionary tale for anyone who suffered a major knee injury. Gilbert tore a meniscus near the tail end of the 2006-07 season, came back too soon, reinjured it in November, missed much of the season, came back too soon a second time, reinjured his knee in the playoffs, came back too soon the following fall, had a third surgery, and ended up playing 15 games total in two years. Make no mistake — he was NEVER the same.
Now? He's a cautionary tale, the name that floats through the head of any player who wants to keep pushing himself to play, feels really good … but doesn't totally trust his knee yet. Magic Johnson's biggest professional regret is coming back too soon during the 1981 season. He knew his surgically repaired knee didn't feel right, but as Magic tells it, you start feeling that pressure from every direction. Fans, teammates, coaches, the owner, you name it. And it's not even intentional. Might even be something as simple as someone saying, "How's the knee feeling?," only they make eye contact for an extra second and you start thinking, Does he not believe me? You get in your own head. You feel guilty all the time. Your confidence is shaken. You can't do the one thing that always came easiest to you. So you start pushing yourself to come back, tricking yourself, convincing yourself to feel a certain way. And that's when you can get in trouble.
As Magic put it, When you're ready, you know. If you're wondering even a little? Then you don't know. I think that's where Derrick Rose is right now. He's in his own head. He doesn't totally trust his knee yet. His hammies still hurt. And yet … he feels horrible that he can't help his team. So he's vacillating, and fortunately, GILBERT ARENAS keeps flashing through his head in all caps. Over everything else, that's Arenas's real legacy. Nobody wants to be The Next Guy Who Came Back Too Soon."
I am probably a bigger Bulls fan than anyone on here. Derrick Rose doesn't talk to the media, and we don't really know how he feels. All we know is the doctors said he "could" play. I just am so sick of ignorant people talking as if they know exactly what hes going through. He shouldn't play because Nate Robinson is throwing up on the bench. He should play because he's ready, which clearly he isn't. We live in a world where a major sports TEAM shut down its best player despite being the best team the league because it was worried about his long term health. Let Derrick come back when he wants to, it was always in the cards he was going to miss the entire season. I understand both he and the Bulls organization could have handled it better, and not allowed this night to night guessing game ensue. But it is what it is, and its really time to let it go. Coming back a month ago made some sense, thrusting himself into the middle of a playoff series does not. Its not like we are going to start hating him next year or any year moving forward because of it.
I agree with your opinions.If Rose was going to come back it would have happened 20 games before the playoffs.You can't throw your best player who just came back from a major knee surgery with absolutely no games in the regular season in the intensity of a playoff game.You can risk a year if it means getting 3 succesful ones.I ve said it repeatedly.To me the Bulls with a healthy Derrick Rose are the only team in the East that can compete against Miami in a playoff series.And despite Rose's injury a lot of good things happened for the Bulls.I ll mention the emergence of Jimmy Butler as a really good player and a valuable asset and the play of Nate Robinson.I could see him retaining the backup pg role when Rose returns in the expense of Hinrich.
I really believe Rose can follow the example of Adrian Peterson.He can be the MVP of the league after a knee surgery.I just hope he is the same good old Derrick Rose next year.
Sit him until he saya let's go
If he can play full contact 5 on 5 and go through an entire practice, then he can play. Even if its just for 10-15 minutes a game vs 2nd teamers He's been doing full contact 5 on 5 for at least 2 months now.
He and his brother ran out of excuses. I don't think he had any intention of playing this yr.
Rose doesn't want to come back and play 10-15 minutes he wants to come back and be rosé of old. He probably could have came back 2 months ago and started playing 20 or so minutes and he would have been up to speed right now playing regular minutes, but I also think that this was his plan all along not to play this year
"He and his brother ran out of excuses. I don't think he had any intention of playing this yr."
The sad part is, Noah and Hinrich have played this entire series extremely hard despite the fact that they're playing on one leg. Deng and Gibson have flu-like symptoms, Robinson was throwing up on the sideline and they're still trying to go out and give it 110% in every game.
I don't know how it hasn't eaten Rose inside watching his teammates fall apart (physically) while giving it everything and he basically gave up this season.
Maybe Rose isn't 100%, but there's no way he can't play at least some right now. It's been over a year.
Derrick Rose is doing the right thing, because at the end of the day it's his body and his career. The Bulls management are also doing the right thing because he's there future. More than any other player on the Bulls. He's arguably a top 5 player when healthy, he's definitely top 10.
You have to be right in your head before you come back from an injury because if you start over compensating with other parts of your body they can get injured, in your head if you think it's not good to play then don't play, everyone screaming and wanting D. Rose to come back are just being selfish. Talking about Nate Robinson playing with flu like symptons, Noah with plantar fasciitis, they aren't risking re-injuring themselves. Players play with plantar fasciitis all of the time. Most players in the NBA have some form of back problems. Like Luol Deng has.
Derrick Rose has to worry about himself because at the end of the day, if he goes out and injures another part of his body or re-injures his acl. None of us, none of the bulls fans, and none of the Bulls players are going to pay his bills and none of us would be able to give him his promising career back. Sometimes you have to be selfish..
Okay, but you guys are totally missing the point. So he could play 15 minutes a night, so what? Are the Bulls going to win the title with him playing 15 minutes a night?
Noah and Hinrich are "banged up". They are ALWAYS banged up. They play some games, they miss some games. Neither of them tore their ACL. Last year, Derrick rose was banged up, and he got into playing shape for the playoffs and was ready to go. You can't compare Noah or Hinrich to Rose in that regard. And it doesn't matter. Rose's injury has nothing to do with other players. If the Bulls were 100%, and losing this series, you'd still be complaining about him not being out there. The fact other players have gotten hurt is unfortunate, but comparing Noah's planter fasc, which basically flares up every season, and Kirk Hinrich and his bi-weekly injuries to an ACL tear is just completely unfair.
Okay, I'll look at it from your angle. Plantar Fasciitis and a bruised muscle are nothing compared to an ACL tear. I can accept that.
Now let's compare apples to apples.
Iman Shumpert's ACL tear. Same injury, same time but Shumpert only missed 37 games and is going strong.
This is apples to apples.
If Rose was playing 15-20 minutes a game, they run through the Nets. The series is 3-3, you're telling me 120 minutes of Derrick Rose wouldn't sway any of those games?
Not only that but the Bulls, without Rose, play the Heat at a near standstill. An extra 20 minutes a game from a high level player at the PG position (one of the Heat's weaknesses) might tilt the scales in Chicago's favor.
And it's not about winning a title but proving to your team you're willing to go all out for them. Noah, Hinrich, Gibson, Deng, and Robinson are all banged up or day-to-day but they go out there as much as they can, as hard as they can, for as long as they can.
I'll tell you one thing, if it were Kobe, Chris Paul, LeBron, or Durant, they'd be out there.
Here is the flaw in your apples to apples argument.
Shumpert is a complimentary piece to the Knicks, and Rose is the entire franchise to the Bulls
The difference lies in this. Rose has the reason to think about his future more, the Bulls have reason to be more cautious and understanding the investment. The Nationals shut down Strasberg last year. Gio Gonzalez is a good young pitcher who had a great year. He didn't get shut down, because he isn't there investment. He isn't there marquee guy.
Shumpert had a quick recovery, but looked pretty bad for a solid month or so. So it wasn't as if he didn't come back too earlier, he did. But lets say by game 60 he was playing 100%, thats true, and thats fine. But Rose was simply more cautious than he was, and he recovered differently than Shumpert did. Its not fair to just assume that both of them recovered exactly the same.
And you're also right, the Bulls would have beat the Nets with minimal Rose. But they wouldn't stand a chance in hell against Miami in the next round. So what is the point? The whole idea of the article I posted was that a player who rushed back too soon from a knee injury killed his career. So you are going to risk bringing Rose back, to beat the Nets in the first round, knowing if he isn't going 100%, you have not at going any further.
I would have been a huge supporter of Rose coming back a month ago and playing himself into 100% shape for the playoffs. But he didn't and once that happened, we should have accepted he wasnt coming back, because him coming back any short of 100% makes no sense, because they just don't stack up against Miami in that fashion.
And you know what? It's fine that Derrick Rose isn't coming back. I agree with you that they wouldn't beat the Heat with minimal Rose and his not coming back a month ago is a primary reason as to why he wouldn't come back now.
I also agree that Shumpert is a complimentary piece thus making it easier for him to comeback compared to a superstar.
What I don't agree with though is Rose attempting to make a timetable. Coming up with excuses. Trying to find different reasons to tell people. If you're not going to play, come out and say that you're not comfortable and you're not going to play. I mean, every month, there was a different excuse for Rose and a different timetable.
As I said though, other superstars like LeBron, Kobe, and CP3 would be out there.
Easy putting CP3 on that list...he has missed A LOT of games over the years with knee problems.
I agree. I also think the organization could have controlled it better. Setting a timetable for Rose to make a decision this season. What's the loss in them saying a month ago when he didn't return, "He's done, out for the year". If he miraculously came back, it just would have been a surprise, and the fans wouldn't be whining on a night-to-night basis.
The comparison between Shumpert's injury and Rose's injury is not exactly the same
a)The physical therapists on Rose and Shump probably used different techniques.Shumpert could be like 90% and still play cause he is not much of a difference maker behind Melo.Rose is the face of the Bulls franchise.So the team that was assigned to him was probably told we want him back to 110% or not at all(i m exaggerating but you get my point).Rose worked on his whole core as far as i know during his physical therapy.
b)Rose is a scoring pg who bases his game on his athleticism.His crossovers and jumps make him put too much force on his knees.If he feels weird out there he can't help Chicago.
The comparison you will be able to make next year though will be with Westbrook.Same playstyle as Rose around the same time the injury occured.Westbrook's injury is also worse than Rose's(i think torn meniscus is worse than torn acl) so it could take more time to heal.So if Westbrook comes back before Rose did then yes that could say something for Rose having a plan not to come back this season.I kinda think he wanted to because he knows that this group of guys can't play forever
He might have nerve damage.
If it is just rust and trusting his knee that is one thing, but if it is not there its not there.
I wanted to see him this year but I will wait for him (and Westbrook, and Kobe and Rondo) until
I don't think it's a big deal. IMO he hasn't returned yet because he thinks t would be foolish to possibly have a set back when they really have no chance of making it to the finals.
The bulls need a second star
If D-Rose had decided not to play this year then I wonder what could happen if the Bulls do progress in the play offs, if he could come back it almost makes more sense to do it at the business end of the season. Teams only genuinely contend for maybe a few years at a time so D-Rose could let an opportunity slip.
Personally I feel he is looking long term and so are the Bulls so why risk the next 5 to 10 years etc.
THe thing you have to remember is, as good as the Bulls are, they don't have the most ideal supporting cast to win a title. They need a 2nd player who can do things off the dribble. They just don't have that. They made the mistake of paying 3 *nice* players 8 figures, instead of paying one really good player and a nice player 8 digits. They are cap pressed with Boozer, Noah, and Deng all make decent money, and they are really a piece away from being better than Miami. And with that cap situation, they have no way of really acquring any more talent. They are going to lose Nate Rob (He will command above league minimum) and probably reset there entire bench. Bellinelli, Rip, Naz Muhammad will all be gone. They will have to continue to sign minimum salary guys to deals, and bank on the core six of Rose-Butler-Deng-Boozer-Noah-Gibson somehow beating the Heat. I think they know they are in position to contend, but probably have to wait to be a legit TITLE threat. Remember, they are going to get Niko Mirotic eventually, and they could possibly have a great pick form Charlotte in 2016. But that's so far a way and that's a hell of a lot of lottery picks the Cats are going to get between no and then to get better.
If he doesn't feel he's ready, he shouldn't come back. No need to risk further injury, either to the knee or something else. I don't care if he's been cleared by a doctor. Not every human being's body and mind are the same. He doesn't feel comfortable out there, so he's doing the right thing for himself, and for the Bull's franchise.
The media has really turned this into something it shouldn't be.
Like I said I still believe it was Derrick's brother Reggie that stopped the return more so than Derrick.
And I said this bout a month ago, funny 6 days ago Reggie said, not Derrick that he could return in the 2nd round....proofs in the pudding.