Derrick Favors value
I just read on another thread where someone wrote that the Jazz should trade Derrick Favors to the Milwaukee Bucks for the #10, #40 and Chris Douglas Roberts... and I just about fell out of my chair. What in the world are some of you people thinking? Freaking heck. You think the jazz are just going to give up their franchise player for a couple picks and a role player?
I heard Chad Ford mention that if Favors came out this year he "undoubtedly would be the number 1 overall pick" I was surprised by that statement, but I've heard a few other scouts mention the same thing since then. I personally agree that Favors is a very good youngster who has value now but more importantly has crazy potential. I think he has the tools to be a super star in this league.
How good do you think he'll be?
The Jazz would be insane to trade him for the bucks garbage. It must have been a bucks fan that suggested a deal because no Jazz fan would trade there future away for nothing.
Who ever made that suggestion must have been a Bucks fan and want Favors for nothing, Favors was the biggest reason the Jazz made the trade with NJ and gave up DWill. They got a decent points guard in Harris and two potentially good draft picks but Favors was the biggest reason they made the move. Favors compares very favorably to Dwight Howard when he came into the NBA, look up their measurements etc on draft *******.com [BUT REALLY DON'T], their almost identical. Favors has a chance to be very special and a top PF in the league.
derrick favors a "franchise player"?
i just lol'd
did al jefferson just quit their team?
If Al Jefferson is our franchise player then I quit.
When i watch Favors play I do not really feel like he really cares out there. I do not know if he really wants to work hard to be the best he can be. He could probably get by being a solid player by just his athleticism. I really hope he proves me wrong though and reaches his full potential. I really like him as a person also.
I mean come on do you really think KOC is that stupid. First he cut off at least 2 years to the jazz's rebuilding process after DWILL left. Did you really think he was going to stay? He gets us Favors and a pick this draft and next, probably, i don't see GS being a bottom 7 team next year. And you think we just give him up for nothing. The point that Utah has to many PF's doesn't mean we have to get rid of one especially the one who COULD end up being the best one of the three. If the Jazz trade any one of them it would be Millsap (i hated even typing that). Jefferson plays the 5, Favors needs to be starting at the 4 and Millsap needs to come off of the bench. would he be happy with that idk. we have other trade pieces instead (Miles, Bell, please get rid of him, and Okurs expiring contract)
@nomoney i agree he is a black hole once the ball goes to him it never leaves his hands.
lukestine13: I agree with you that if one of the 3 were to be traded it should be Milsap, Paul is the kind of player every team would love to have but he is undersized and gets taken advantage of on the defensive end . I too think Favors needs to start at the 4 and Big Al at the 5, if Paul will come off the bench as a 6th man then keep him, but if he doesn't want to accept that then trade him for the best 3 man we can get. Then draft Biyombo and let him come off the bench behind Big Al & Favors, he would provide improved D , rebounding and a shot blocker. The biggest weakness the Jazz had last year was defense and rebounding.
Lukestine, you are exactly correct. I agree with you completely. The starting lineup next year should look like this:
Miles/draft pick 6
draft pick 12/Hayward
I have a feeling, that Favors will be something special. I know he will work out over the summer and work on his game. The Jazz should have Favors be their franchise player. Right now the Jazz are not trading any bigman. When the time is right they will trade Al Jefferson and get a more true center. But not right now. Patience, people Patience. All your waiting on Derrick Favors is about to pay off and next year he is going to be quite a player, now that is he is on a team that actually believes in him and doesn't consider him to be trade bait like the Nets did.
Hollinger has a formula to rate players defensively and although I love Milsap, he ranked something like 194th out of 201 players, one of the worst. That rated players on how they played against the man they were guarding. It was very surprising to see Paul rated so poorly but was proof that he is undersized and that he gets taken advantage of by the bigger/longer 4's he has to face.
He was a much better defender/rebounder when he was coming off the bench. The starting mentality changes some people.
He'll be BJ Mullens-good
Even though I have suggested that the Jazz consider trading Milsap to obtain a quality 3 man, I don't think they will nor do I really want them to, I just think it may be good business. Paul's value may be at it highest and the Jazz could probably get the most for him now. Paul may be asked to play the 3 some next year and it will be intereting to see how that works out. I hope the Jazz can resign AK at a reasonable price, we need his length and defense. AK ranked no 5 in the league in that defensive ranking Hollinger has. Like I have posted before, I don't think the Jazz need to draft a 2, both Hayward and CJ are best suited to play the 2 and although they can play the 3 they are both undersized and at a disadvantage against the top 3's in the league.
Money, I think your right about Paul's defense being better when he was coming off the bench, I think he tries not to get in foul trouble when he starts so he can stay on the floor longer and it ends up hurting his defense.
scliddiard i don't see the Jazz taking biyombo. what i think the jazz will do assuming they don't win the lottory is take knight with the sixth pick if he is available and either a small forward (jones, leonard, or hamilton in that order) or The Jimmer with the 12th pick. What i would like to see them do is try to trade for an additional lotto pick. Then they do Knight at 6th still and Jimmer and the sf same as i mentioned above. I'm a huge Jimmer fan. at 12 i think he is worth the gamble. I realize this puts a lot of young guys in a Jazz uniform (Hayward, Favors, Evans, and 2, hopefully 3 rooks) but they are rebuilding. This may put them into the lottory next year too but next years draft should be way better than this years. also look at how good of a team OKC has built through the draft.
lukestine13: I think the Jazz may take Knight too but I don't think they will take Jimmer if they take Knight, Jimmer will surprise people who think he's not a point guard, he can create, handle and he's a better passer than most people think.
I think the Jazz need to get the best 3 man they can, AK is an uncertainty, he may be back, he may not be, but we need a long, athletic 3 anyway because AK is getting older etc. TJones or Vesely are the pick I like for the 3 spot. Leonard would be my dark horse pick as a 3 man.
The Jazz front office are always pretty closed mouthed about what they are doing and what positions or what players they are targeting, so I don't know for sure what direction they will go but it is fun to try to figure things out.
If the Jazz were to take TJones or Vesely with the 6th pick, I would hope they would take Jimmer with the 12th pick.
I'd like to see more of Biyombo, I have watched his highlights at the Nike games and he looks good but one game is not enough to really get to know what he has. I like what I saw though.
nomoney: your post makes it sound like your a Jazz man, is that so ? & where are you from?
lukestine13: What makes you a big Jimmer fan?
I'm a Jazz fan from Alaska. Live in Portland, though. Here's some tidbits about me.
- Kirilenko is my favorite player, and he has been ever since Stockton retired.
- I called for Williams' head after Sloan resigned.
- Most Jazz fans around here don't like me because I was against the Jefferson trade last year, and I currently think he needs to be moved.
- I keep a big board for Jazz prospects. (Enes Kanter is currently near the top)
- I do a lot of scouting.
- Other Jazz fans annoy me.
Yeah, so I'm a bit atypical. Welcome to the board, anyhow.
Huge BYU fan football and basketball. I have been watching Jimmer work his magic all season to bad they suspended Davies i thought they were a final four team. I think if Jimmer had a real inside presence ie favors, millsap, and jefferson he could do well in the NBA. i think they would take Jimmer even if they take Knight because the Jazz always carry three point gaurds and both Ronnie Price and Earl Watson are free agents.
@nomoney love your profile pic it makes me laugh
I totally wouldn't mind a Knight-Fredette draft this year, but it's unlikely. We would have three relatively young PGs with all-star potential, and they would likely hurt each other's growth. It would only work if we were able to trade Harris, start Watson but give the majority of the PG playing time to Knight and Fredette. Also Jimmer would have to be able to play the back-up shooting guard for spurts.
My dream draft at this point would be Kanter at 6 and Fredette at 12.
Derrick Favors/Jeremy Evans
That's a future lineup with scoring, shooting, defense, rebounding, energy, passing and length. Then we just get some veterens and role-players to bring in off the bench and we're cherry for the next ten years. The major questions revolve around Kirilenko/Kanter's injury concerns, Fredette's shot selection and Favors ability to stay out of foul trouble. Outside of that, there is little downside to this lineup.
And thanks. The longer I look at my avatar, the harder I laugh.
I'm not gonna lie, I like Knight being the Jazz pick, but I don't think they need to address the PG issue in this draft. This draft is not particulary strong in the PG position. Kyrie Irving, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker and to an exent Jimmer Fredette are all overrated. All are not that great of PG's. They will be good PG's but not great. The Jazz's system has always had a great PG. Jazz fans are used to having a great PG. I do want to have a great PG but that is not the issue that needs to be addressed in this draft. Remember the Jazz have the Warriors pick next year. I also do not think the Warriors will be in the top 7 of next year's draft, but look at who is likely available below the 7th pick: Myck Kabongo, Marquis Teague, and Kendall Marshall. Now those would be the PG's that Utah needs to shoot for. Those guys are legit and not overrated like Jimmer, Irving, Knight, and Walker are.
First of all I need to point out something before I delve into who I think the Jazz will draft this year. Hayward is a good wing, scliddiard is right, he is a bit small for the 3. But that does not mean his true position is the 2. He can still be a good backup 3 off the bench. Miles can also play the 3 but he is more of a 2 guard in my mind. I actually think both Miles and Hayward would be better off as bench players. Miles is a bit inconsistent, and I don't know about you but I do not like inconsistent players starting. I'd rather see them come off the bench. Meaning that both Miles and Hayward should be coming off the bench. With that being said and hopefully understood clear then I will delve into what I think the Jazz should do this draft.
In the draft the Jazz should address the 2 guard and SF positions. The ideal players that the Jazz need to target in this draft are Alec Burks, Terrence Jones, Kawhi Leonard, and Jordan Hamilton. Both Jones and Burks are good passers and also good rebounders, which are both strong points of the Jazz system and why it works. So both Burks and Jones would make great Jazz players. The Jazz do need an outside shooter, and Burks is certainly not one of those yet, but he is good at other things that I think actually matter more. (ie defense, rebounding, and passing) I think he will improve his shooting ability with the help of Jeff Hornacek, Jones is certainly a better shooter than Burks is and his shot will also improve thanks to Jeff Hornacek.
I would really like to see the Jazz draft Burks and Jones, but I am having doubts about Jones being available with the 12th pick yet I know Burks will not be available with the 12th pick either. This is why I think that if possible the Jazz should try and trade their 12th pick up and get Jones with it. But if worst comes to worst and no trade is available then I am okay with drafting Kawhi Leonard, and yes Hamilton should be the last resort if both Jones and Leonard are not available, but I doubt that will happen. I really think the Jazz's second pick will be either Jones or Leonard and the first pick will be Alec Burks.
P.S. I dont think Vesely is really the guy the Jazz want to replace AK. AK is actually a very good passer that has good ball handling skills. Vesely is a good passer who has horrible ball handling skills. He may be more a PF than a 3. I really think that if you want to look for a replacement for AK then Jones or Leonard are the guys to look at. (more so Jones)
pps. If you think that Burks is the same player as CJ Miles then you need to watch him play more, or read some more of his scouting reports. He is not. They are different players. Burks is more of a passer and is effective in the offense by using his passing ability and working inside the system, really trying to be a part of it. Miles tries to play outside of the system, by thowing up lots of three's and mostly missing on most of them. Cj really tries to create for himself instead of trying to be effective in the system. He is a scorer, but just that, and that is another reason why CJ should be a bench player.
you are on crack for not liking jefferon.. id take him over boozer or favors ANY day... hes better at pretty much everything... especially defense..
Im not spreading the butter on the Jefferson bread just yet. He needs to show he can be the emotional leader of a team, and really provide energy and confidence to the rest of the team. It takes a rare player to be able to lead this Utah franchise. Bad trade, will prevent Utah from reaching their potential, even when they creat a better core.
Agreed, I don't know how someone could not like Al...18.6, 9.7, 50% FG 75% FT and finished 9th in the league in blocks. Also was incredible when DWill left -- 23.8/11.6 in March.
People need to chill about Favors. He didn't really put up numbers this year but it was exactly what he needed. He was the #1 rated recruit by many accounts (including Scout), MVP of McDonald's and Jordan game, ACC freshman of the year, chiseled 6-10/250 with Dwight Howard's wingspan. Give him 2 or 3 years and yes he will be a player of franchise value.
nomoney & luke: Thanks for you responses! Little tid bits about me. I live in Provo, Ut, strong LDS, love BYU, love the Jazz, love the game of Basketball, played into my 50's, now a 60 yr old grandpa, coached some, boys played in college, love to anylize & discuss players and their potential etc.
I love AK , if he was a good shooter, he would be top 5 in the league, he does most everything well, and is very valuable to the team. I hope they can resign him at a price they can afford. Even if they can I hope they draft a 3 to groom as his replacement, he's getting older and he's pretty injury prone. I like TJones or Vesely, but Leonard could be a dark horse pick to fill the 3.
I think Jimmer will surprise people, he's more athletic than most people give him credit for, I don't know Knight well enough to say if he can become a pass first / distributor type point guard and that is what I'd like to see the Jazz get. All four of the top point guards love to score, Irving looks like he may be the best but time will tell. Knight & Jimmer have good size. Walker would be my last choice, but I don't know him that well, size may be his biggest question mark.
I like what I have seen of Kanter, he looks very skilled, my questions about him are his knees and his defense, offensively he's got all the skills. From what I have read and heard he wants to play PF and we are loaded at the 4 at present. If it wouldn't be for how young and inexperienced they'd be I'd love a Favors , Kanter front court. To me Favors has everything you'd want in a young player you plan to build around, tall, long, athletic, we will need to be patient but he could be very good. Top 5 to top 10 good.
nomoney: Post what your big board has on it at the present if you will, I'd be interested to see it.
Being a vastly better prospect than the likes of Valanciunas and Biyombo is not the same as being another Dwight Howard. The point I try to make with guys like Valanciunas and Biyombo is that these bad lottery teams already have players just as long and just as, if not more, athletic than those guys. Don't try to make the case that these projects are somehow magically better than the prospects the lottery teams already have. There is not an argument for Valanciunas or Biyombo being a better prospect than Favors. A team like Toronto already has Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Solomon Alabi, Alexis Ajinca, Reggie Evans, and Joey Dorsey. You need to have your head examined if you think Valanciunas or Biyombo are going to add anything other than another name. The Warriors took Ekpe Udoh last year. Why trade him out after one year for his long lost, but less skilled offensively, older brother? Or for that matter replace white Biyombo, Lou Amundson. Can anyone possibly expect Valanciunas to be on a more advanced learning curve than Biedrins? I don't think so. The same goes for Milwaukee with Larry Sanders. They took him a year ago knowing he was raw, so why after a year goes by should anyone be surprised he wasn't overly impressive? Do I have to list the list long athletic Wizards who all can block shots, but somehow don't help them stop anyone from scoring? Teams aren't bad because they lack energy or shot blockers. They lack talent, skill, intelligence, and awareness on both ends. Picking up either of those two is not helping in any of those categories category. Oh wait Biyombo speaks multiple languages, clearly that means he is a basketball genius.
BTW, Utah finished third in the NBA in blocked shots. The defensive problems of the Jazz are not a result of being unable to block shots.
Big Al did a good job of blocking shots last year, a little bit of a surprise but a nice one, the problem with Big Al is he doesn't move his feet that well and doesn't defend the pick and roll very well. Rebounding was a big problem for the Jazz last year, something they may want to address.
Ward: I appreciate your opinions, I just don't agree with your feelings about Burke, nor do I agree about Hayward, I think he will be an excellent 2 guard, he has very good handles, he's smart, a good shooter, a good passer, makes his teammate better, he's a good rebounder. It took him some time to get comfortable but the last month or so Hayward played well and he will only get better.n Unless the Jazz don't pick up the option on CJ's contract I don't see them drafting a 2, like I said Hayward and CJ's best positions are the 2, not the 3. Every coach/GM wants to get taller/longer/more athletic at each position and both Hayward and CJ are undersized and at a disavantage at the 3, but at the 2 they give the Jazz the advantange of being taller, longer etc.
With Barnes and PJones pulling out of the draft it weakened the 3 spot possiblilities but TJones , Vesely, Leonard and Hamilton are what the Jazz have to pick from if they choose to look for a 3.
Are you really David kahn? Why in the world would any team let alone utah draft 2 point guards in the lottery with their 1st 2 picks with the intent to keep them both? They have more concerns than just one position in a weak pg draft.
How do you feel about Millsap? I did not realize this, but his contract is actually listed as being at 6.7 and 7.2 over the next two years, which is actually a GREAT deal. I thought he signed for much more when they matched the Blazers contract last summer, so I am slightly surprised. Plus, Mehmet is in the last year at 10.9 could be a decent trade chip, or at least provide some cap relief after the 2012 season.
Millsap is great, but I see him as being more of a utility player rather than an All-Star, and definitely think Favors has more long term potential. That front court seems pretty clogged right now, and something will have to be done about it. Do you think the Jazz will go into full rebuilding mode next year, or try to take a stab at the play-offs? Also, what are your thoughts on Devin Harris?
To me, Jefferson and Harris both have shown flashes, but have yet to prove they can lead a team to wins. They did not come any closer to proving that at the end of last season, and I would think that the Jazz might be better off trying to trade either one or both players and build around a younger core. Jefferson is not an ideal Center, and Harris is not an ideal PG. They both have two more years on their deals, but I think it might be difficult to trade either of them. Have you thought of possible destinations for either of them?
I really like Millsap, but the team would be best served bring him in off the bench. The Jazz have historically been pretty conservative when it comes to making moves, so I don't expect them to attempt to rebuild this summer (though I strongly believe they should). Look for Utah to stick with Harris, Millsap and Jefferson until a few months into the season.
Harris is an average PG. Good playmaking/penetration ability, but he's poor defender and is ineffcienet. Personally, I had hoped Utah would trade him as soon as they aquired him. I though the Blazers would be interested in Harris in exchange for Miller, Oden or Pryzbilla. A team looking for a solid PG would probably be willing to aquire Harris in exchange for a late 1st/early 2nd draft pick and an expiring.
Jefferson is a great scorer, but is a toxin to his team. He doesn't move without the ball, he demonstrates a poor shot-selection and his defense (particularly in the pick-and-roll) is horrible. The team clearly has a better chemistry when he's not on the floor, and his +/- ratio is very indicative of this. Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Philedelphia and Cleveland all might be interested and they could offer solid packages.
Diaw for Jefferson?
Hasheem Thabeet, Brad Miller, DeMarre Carroll and a future 1st for Jefferson?
Andre Iguodala for Jefferson and our #12?
Antawn Jamison for Jefferson?
I'd pull the trigger on any of those deals.
i am assuming you are not a jazz fan if you were you would know they always carry three points gaurds and that both Price and Watson are free agents. also when the jazz traded DWILL KOC said that Harris fills an immediate need at PG to me that says he is not the guy we want but more of a place holder until we get the guy we want. plus under certain situations why not play the both of them at the same time