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The Current State of The NBA

OhCanada-
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The Current State of The NBA

Just a couple reflective questions comparing the game now than in the 90's

-Is the NBA more competitive now than then
-Are the Athletes more skilled
-Is the integrity of the game still in tact
-Are the messages towards our youth better now or than
-Would Kobe and Lebron run all over Barkley and Jordan

What differences do you see from the game in the 90's to this era?


DanEboy
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The talent level is higher

The talent level is higher then in the '90s

The athletes are more athletic, not skilled. At least not fundamentally skilled.

Nobody would run all over MJ.

The handcheck rule is a major difference. Shorts are longer, except for hat one night in LA 2 years ago. Wtf were they thinking?

llperez
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-Is the NBA more competitive

-Is the NBA more competitive now than then-yes more competitive

-Are the Athletes more skilled-no question, at least the 1-4 men. centers are deeper now and better on the bottom half, but the top centers from before would out play the top centers today.

-Is the integrity of the game still in tact-cant really think of how it isnt.

-Are the messages towards our youth better now or than-Now. The NBA has put a ton of effort into giving a positive outlook with the read to achieve and helping the community comercials.

-Would Kobe and Lebron run all over Barkley and Jordan-I think kobe, jordan, and lebron would all be near par with each other. The game has evolved thanks to michael and the wing position is tougher now so he wouldnt stand out as being easily the best like he did in the 80's and 90's. Barkely would struggle a little more because back then the pf position was much more traditinoal bigs who just defende and rebounded. Now there are more tall athletic and skilled pf's.

What differences do you see from the game in the 90's to this era?-the game just evolves. Players from each era push the next era to improve. Guys from the 80's would beat guys from the 70's. Guys from the 90's would beat guys from the 80's. Not sure why people would all the sudden assume that trend would reverse. Thats not to say all guys would outplay the past, but generally speaking, yes. Speed, athleiticsm and just generally having fewer weaknesses is required today then in the past.

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I hate it. Its a damn point

I hate it. Its a damn point guard league now. I'd rather the more physicals days and big man banging it out in the post.

sacphil_08
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The league was way more

The league was way more talented back in the 90s. Not to mention alot more physical because of the allowance of handchecking. Regular season games were allowed to be as physical as playoff games are nowadays and the playoffs were on a level that many players in today's game wouldnt be able to fathom. The way that the rules are in today's game guys like dwade, kobe, and lebron can put themselves in a position where they can get to the free throw line based solely off of their talent and god-given ability whereas jordan and those guys had to do more to earn their keep. The league is definitely softer as i'm sure many players that played in the end of that era that are still playing now can attest to. I think also that the only part of the league that is almost as good as the league was back then are the point guards. Deron williams, chris paul, rajon rondo, etc are all players that couldve played back then and had similar success as they do now. It's interesting to think about because back in the 90s the majority of the league was more skilled than they were athletic and the guys who were freakishly athletic really stood out back then and now its vice versa; most of the best players in the league now are freakishly athletic and the guys that are really skilled really stand out. Tyreke evans for example isnt really athletic. He's just incredibly strong, and hones his craftiness and skill in order to become super effective. An example back in the day was shawn kemp, most bigs back then were highly skilled but not the greatest athletes, shawn kemp was almost like an amare is now and he dominated the paint with extreme athleticism. i definitely prefer the league back in the 90s though because of all the players that played in that time.

llperez
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people act like it was rugby

people act like it was rugby back then. Come on, the hand check and physical play was more, but lets not get carried away. It looked a lot more physical becasue guys werent as quick off the dribble or as athletic so guys would bang each other and get physical. But as more guys developed jumpers and ball handling and got generally quicker, the game opened up and just backing guys down wasnt gonna cut it anymore.

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Is is just me or where roles

Is is just me or where roles more defined back then.Today you see shooting guards who play PG and power forwards play SG. Back then it seem liked they cared about what positions each person played.

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Are players more athletic

Are players more athletic now...yes, for an average I belive so, but not by a lot, the style of play is different. Hell, there are a hand ful of new rules that were implimented in the early 2000's to increase scoring and market the game which was suffering from fan fall out from the 1999 player strike. For your Amare now, there was Shawn Kemp. Jordan, Nique, Pippen, and others are all elite athletes and Karl Malone had a deadly 15-18 foot jumper. The game is different, but I think a player who can play the game then could play it now. You can say that some of the stiffs of the 90s wouldn't be anything near a NBA roster today, but how do you explain Randolph Morris, the Collins Twins and Scabrine? Another common misconception is that players today are much larger than they were ten or even twenty years ago. Yeah, Barkley would be on the short end of the power forward spectrum, but he was back then too. Here are some stats with the average height and weights of NBA players over the years.

1989-1990 height: 6'7.09'' weight: 214.82 lbs
1994-1995 height: 6'7.19'' weight: 221.50 lbs
1999-2000 height: 6'7.26'' weight: 224.68 lbs
2004-2005 height: 6'7.26'' weight: 224.29 lbs
2007-2008 height: 6'6.98'' weight: 221.00 lbs

I couldn't find the stats for 2009-2010, but i got these from NBA.com so they're legit.

llperez
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roles were defenitley more

roles were defenitley more defeined back then, no question.

PG's did almost all the ball handling. Not too many sg/sf's could dribble or create all that great which is one thing that made the bulls so dangerous becasue they had jordan/pippen.

sg's were usually coming off screens and shooting jumpers. Ball handling and posting up was rare. Think about all-stars like mullin, richmond, starks, majerle, byron scott, reggie miller. Sg's were typically shooters and not much more.

pf's were bangers and rebounded played defense. The all stars were great scorers like barkley, malone, kemp, coleman etc. But top to bottom, the pf position was full of guys like horace grant, ac green, michael cage, buck williams, otis thorpe, charles oakley, dennis rodman etc. where the role was very specific to rebounding and defense with minimal offense.

guys off the becnh usually had like one specific job. They would shoot, or rebound, or defend or bring the ball up and pass. Not too many depth bench players would come in and do it all and have great well rounded games.

sacphil_08
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To llperez

The game is nowhere near being as intact today as it was back then. When the best player in the league (lebron, and mind you this isn't my personal opinion, its just the truth) shows selfish, childish, and immature behavior with a premadonna attitude (i.e. dancing like an idiot on the sideline, eating popcorn when you fall into the stands, not taking enough accountability for playing horribly, and not providing necessary leadership) you don't have 'intactness' never in the 90s did you see jordan or magic or bird or any of those players do anything of that nature. The league a few years ago made it mandatory to dress semi professionally in order to try to make things become more intact and when lebron is acting like that (i forgot to mention the dumb ass team pictures he was doing on the sideline) it shows how the league is definitely his and almost at his mercy.

llperez
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sacphil-are you talking about

sacphil-are you talking about the integrity and the messages to kids? If so, that a tough one to really judge. The NBA and the players had their warts back then as well, there just wasnt as much media and internet to cover every little detail like there is today. Magic and Michael cheated on their wives just like players do today. Shawn kemp and larry johnson were fathering kids left and right like some players do today. Guys were partying and drinking and doing drugs. Guys were demanding money like it was going out of style. Karl Malone ran into some trouble for sex with a minor i believe. Larry bird had a daughter that he never even met until she was an adult.

Im not trying to hate on these guys. Fact is most athletes are good people but they have their faults and i dont choose to waste my time or energy focusing on that stuff. But as a whole, david stern has done a great job trying to paint a positive picture of the nba and the players. Guys are held more accountable for the off the court actions then ever before. Look how many comercials we see about players working on the community and helping kids read and eat right. Chris paul is apparently spending his summer building new homes for the poor. Steve Nash has one of the worst hammering forms ever and takes 30 seconds per nail, but he is still putting that frame together. Im aware that the second the camera stops rolling these guys are jumping into a limo and riding off, but the effort by stern is there.

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SACPHIL Thats exactly what I

SACPHIL

Thats exactly what I made this post for you hit the hammer on the nail. The integrity of the game is slowly being led into a dangerous place.

sacphil_08
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llperez

not to be disrespectful man but you couldnt have watched the game back then. the pistons beat the hell out of jordan for 3 years in the playoffs. more than half of the fouls the pistons committed on jordan back then would be flagrants today. you had penny hardaway, jamal mashburn, tim hardaway, allan houston, clyde drexler, david robinson, scottie pippen all kinds of players that were as athletic as players are today so the whole thing about them being slow and fouling eachother is bogus. it was definitely more physical and honestly some of those rivalries were like rugby. knicks vs heat was brutal and so was knicks vs bulls and knicks vs pacers it was way more physical. Also guards back then were hall of fame caliber if they didnt end up making it. There were so many guards that played back then that would absolutely torch guys in todays game because of their level of skill. no one was just backing anyone down unless they were bigs like mourning, ewing, olajuwan, robinson, shaq and those guys were all way more skilled than bigs these days. there are maybe 4 or 5 true centers that actually have skill and thats why they stand out so much. brad miller before he got slow was an all star as well as an olympian, andrew bogut was All NBA this season, greg monroe is so highly toted because of his level of skill and his size, vlade divac for those years so really you need to look up your history before you come to conclusions.

llperez
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irst off i never said every

irst off i never said every single player wasnt as athletic. So bringing up davir robinson, tim hardaway, clyde drexler is a common argument that doesn make sense. The league as a whole was not as athletic. most people will openly admit this. Just bringing up the very best players and most athletic guys like that represents all the league is kinda dumb. Houston and mashburn were in their prime from like 1996-2000 or so which is closer to modern era.

And go watch the game from the 80's. Sf's almost all played like pf's backing guys down. Bernard king, mark aguirre, adrian dantley, larry bird, james worthy etc. these guys werent crossing people over and doing all kinds of crazy stuff off the dribble. One of the reasons the NBA adopted the 5 second back down rule was becasue guys like barkely would take like 10 seconds just backing there man down into the paint.

Gaurds that would torch people? other then jordan, no gaurds would stand out as anything unstoppable today. Sure lots of them could play and be good and even make all star teams. But if you think anyone other then jordan was better then kobe, lebron, wade then i have to seriously disagree. Heck, brandon roy would probably be better then any sg jordan went up aginst before his first retirement.

And while i have been nothing but respectful in this discussion, i would appreciate if you did the same and kept from telling me how i wasnt watching back then and i need to do my hoemwork.

llperez
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and just to make it clear, i

and just to make it clear, i loved the nba when i watched it back then. I have no bias as to why i would prefer todays game over the past. Im the first to represent how great players like malone, lajuwon, jordan, payton, hill were when newer fans dont show them love. But the game evolves. NOt sure why people would be in disagreement about that. The one one one skills and the quality of depth grows.

But some of these arguments sound like the old man who thinks everything was better back then type stuuf, "when i was watching guys would get thrown into the 5th row on a regular basis. Everyone was so much tougher then these primoddonas nowadays." Its just kinda funny to me.

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llperez

Actually I'm 21 and you'd think i'd like today's game more but in actuality I don't obviously. Maybe we didn't see the same things or something. In reference to the integrity of the league, those things always happen in sports no matter the sport. Athletes let their heads grow and feel they can do whatever like Kobe did years back. Also the whole thing about players being out in the community now, I am willing to bet that those types if things are in contracts for say community service or something. Yes some players genuinely are that way but the rest do it because they are suppose to and have been made to by David stern. Have you ever noticed that there are so many of those commercials? The NBA is trying so hard to put off that image of players going and reading to kids and what not when they can barely read themselves for the most part. But I'm speaking about on the court demeanor and making a mockery of the game on TV.. Never did you see a Kobe or a Jordan or anyone like that acting like a complete idiot like that so when I say the league isn't as in tact as it was before I'm referring to how stars portray themselves. D Wade doesn't do that nonsense but that's because he has the fire that lebron doesn't and the maturity to realize he isn't bigger than the game like lebron believes. Let's just agree to disagree I have my points and you have yours. If you feel I disrespected you I apologize

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The NBA is going bye bye

1 more year of this Kobe and Lebron homerdome and then its bed time....the lockout is coming....and the game will be better for it....if they do away with guaranteed contracts and the MAX deal an dallow teams to cut players that dont perform(like the NFL) we will rejoice when the Eddie Curry's of the world stop destroying teams for 3 years....I cant wait...its the only way my Sixers will get rid of Elton Brand...Its the only way your team will get rid of it's bad contract too....

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sacphil, we can agree to

sacphil, we can agree to disagree. But i have to say you being born in 1989 and telling me im the one who obviously didnt watch ball in the late 80's early 90's is pretty funny.

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llperez, please include

llperez, please include Drexler with the guards that could torch players today. That guy gets no love sometimes...Roy is not on Drexler's level.

llperez
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i would say drexler is the

i would say drexler is the best sg after jordan from the late 80's early 90's. I agree he would be an all-star today. Better then a healthy Roy? not so sure. Drexler was a worse shooter and relied a lot on his athleiticism which wouldnt stand out as much today. He often dribbled with his head down and was thus not a great passer like roy. It's arguable. But when i say torching guys, i mean sure drexler would be doing his thing. But he wouldnt be a number 1 option on a title team or any better then what a vince carter is right now today.

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That whole head dribbling is

That whole head dribbling is exaggerated. The guy had great court vision and averaged almost 6 assists a game for his career. He also became a very solid shooter, not from long range but he shot 47% for his career.

His athleticism wouldn't stand out today?? I hate to sound like Quincey but you are wrong on that. He was an incredible athlete.

I don't want to sit here and get into another long debate but Clyde would be way better than Vince is right now, today.

llperez
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clyde was an amazing athlete

clyde was an amazing athlete and his athleticism would defenitely stand out today. But he used his athleticism more in an open court and filling the lanes type of way. Put him in halfcourt situations and that athleticism takes a back seat to the fact his dribblin/shooting and one on one skills are not gonna blow people away. Thats what i meanttot say by bringin up his athleticism not standing out. It would not have the same impact becasue guys would stay in front of him better and he would not get as many of those glyde to the basket plays or hanging jumpers where his defender couldnt get up like him.

I have no problem with people saying he was better then vince or roy. He defenitely had a better career. But im not sure people would be awe of him if he played in todays game, at least not like he was doing things back then.

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Well we can only assume. Who

Well we can only assume. Who knows, he could have adjusted his game to today's style. Now 'Nique on the other hand, I believe would have problems with today's game.

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