[valentine]

 I was listening to Colin Cowherd and he made some good points regarding the Double Standards in the media and general basketball community regarding Lebron and Durant.

I wanted to see if anyone agrees with what he says. This is his summary:

 

Everyone hated when Lebron ditched Cleveland and wanted to play with other star players to win titles. They said he couldn’t do it on his own, so he went to a place where others could help him win. Outcome…public enemy #1. 

Yet everyone seems to want KD to do exactly the same thing. Get out of OKC and go somewhere you can get some rings. No-one seems to begrudge the idea of him doing that.

Still…he contends that Lebron never had anywhere near the roster that KD has in OKC prior to leaving. No Westbrook, not even an Ibaka. Just Larry Hughes and a washed up Ben Wallace & Shaq. One could even argue that  the OKC roster is equal to the Miami Roster. 

Therefore, Cowherd suggests that Durant is over-rated. He says he’s got more in common with Dominique Wilkins (just a scorer, not a winner) than other greats of the game who won titles.  

I want to remain impartial and see what everyone else thinks. 

Questions

• Will Durant be viewed in the same way LBJ was if he skips town to chase rings?
• Is Durant over-rated (eg on Dominique’s level, and not a true all time great). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aktripleParticipant]

 Another example of these double standards is the fact that KD just went 7 from 33 (!!!!) against a mavericks team that is basically a team of reserves plus dirk as most of their main contributers are injured.

Now I want you to picture Lebron going 7-33 against a team that no offence implied sucks (because of injury). The only thing that you’d hear about on Espn and all over social media is about how lebron choked again and debates about if he is really a great clutch player. 

I agree Kevin Durant gets preferential treatment by the fans and media for doing a lot of similar things about it. The only thing i can think of as to why is because when lebron did it he was the One face of the nba as in he was THE guy and he left. 

 

 

[aktripleParticipant]

 Another example of these double standards is the fact that KD just went 7 from 33 (!!!!) against a mavericks team that is basically a team of reserves plus dirk as most of their main contributers are injured.

Now I want you to picture Lebron going 7-33 against a team that no offence implied sucks (because of injury). The only thing that you’d hear about on Espn and all over social media is about how lebron choked again and debates about if he is really a great clutch player. 

I agree Kevin Durant gets preferential treatment by the fans and media for doing a lot of similar things about it. The only thing i can think of as to why is because when lebron did it he was the One face of the nba as in he was THE guy and he left. 

 

 

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 Dan Le Batard mentioned a double standard with KD on his radio show too except it was focused on his performance against Dallas in game 2.  He said if Lebron went 7-33 from the field the media would have been all over him the next day.  

[BleedGreen808Participant]

 Dan Le Batard mentioned a double standard with KD on his radio show too except it was focused on his performance against Dallas in game 2.  He said if Lebron went 7-33 from the field the media would have been all over him the next day.  

[ZouldiersParticipant]

 Lebron was viewed as the next Jordan coming out of  high school and would be the next GOAT while Durant wasn’t viewed as such coming out of college that is why people are less critical of Durant than with Lebron. If people hyped you as the next GOAT, huge expectation would be expected from you and Lebron has that.

 Another example are rings. People criticize Lebron when he fails to get his team rings while you won’t hear the same thing with Durant because people doesn’t see Durant as someone who will threathen the GOAT status of Kobe and MJ.

To answer your question, some will be mad with that decision but that will be mostly OKC fans than the rest of the world unless he televised that decision the same way Lebron did then people will villify him for that. He already better than Dominque and he will be an all-time great when its all said and done.

 

[ZouldiersParticipant]

 Lebron was viewed as the next Jordan coming out of  high school and would be the next GOAT while Durant wasn’t viewed as such coming out of college that is why people are less critical of Durant than with Lebron. If people hyped you as the next GOAT, huge expectation would be expected from you and Lebron has that.

 Another example are rings. People criticize Lebron when he fails to get his team rings while you won’t hear the same thing with Durant because people doesn’t see Durant as someone who will threathen the GOAT status of Kobe and MJ.

To answer your question, some will be mad with that decision but that will be mostly OKC fans than the rest of the world unless he televised that decision the same way Lebron did then people will villify him for that. He already better than Dominque and he will be an all-time great when its all said and done.

 

[r377Participant]

I have him level with Dominique. He may shoot a slightly better % but they are very similar level. I still can’t believe the kids on here took him so early with Zach’s ultimate draft.

He had a better team than Dominique, plus he didn’t have to get through the tough Celtics, Pistons, Bulls and Knicks of the late 80s/early 90s….

[r377Participant]

I have him level with Dominique. He may shoot a slightly better % but they are very similar level. I still can’t believe the kids on here took him so early with Zach’s ultimate draft.

He had a better team than Dominique, plus he didn’t have to get through the tough Celtics, Pistons, Bulls and Knicks of the late 80s/early 90s….

[CynthiaParticipant]

Durant wasn’t even a number 1 pick, he was expected to be good but if anything he’s surpassed expectations. LeBron has been talked about since he was like 14, and was in magazines since he was about 16. The media has been talking about the next Jordan for 5+ years before he even came into the NBA.

I don’t see how you can call Durant overrated when he’s done nothing but exceed expectations. Not many 2nd overall picks turn out very good, much less top 5 good. Here’s some examples of recent 2nd overall picks:
•D’Angelo Russell •Jabari Parker •Victor Oladipo •Michael Kidd-Gilchrist •Derrick Williams •Evan Turner •Hasheem Thabeet •Michael Beasley •LaMarcus Aldridge •Marvin Williams •Emeka Okafor •Darko Milicic •Jay Williams •Tyson Chandler •Stromile Swift

As you can see above most of these guys are average or slightly above average players, the only star is LaMarcus Aldridge. None of these guys are close to even sniffing the top 5. In fact the last 2nd overall pick who is Hall of Fame caliber was Jason Kidd in 1994. Granted the verdict is still out on a couple of the more recent picks especially Jabari Parker, but I don’t see him becoming HoF status.

So in a weird way Durant is the underdog who has overcome, everyone likes the underdog. Then there’s the fact he’s a very chill & quiet guy. He goes on a rage once in a while but not very often, he’s significantly more likeable than LeBron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CynthiaParticipant]

Durant wasn’t even a number 1 pick, he was expected to be good but if anything he’s surpassed expectations. LeBron has been talked about since he was like 14, and was in magazines since he was about 16. The media has been talking about the next Jordan for 5+ years before he even came into the NBA.

I don’t see how you can call Durant overrated when he’s done nothing but exceed expectations. Not many 2nd overall picks turn out very good, much less top 5 good. Here’s some examples of recent 2nd overall picks:
•D’Angelo Russell •Jabari Parker •Victor Oladipo •Michael Kidd-Gilchrist •Derrick Williams •Evan Turner •Hasheem Thabeet •Michael Beasley •LaMarcus Aldridge •Marvin Williams •Emeka Okafor •Darko Milicic •Jay Williams •Tyson Chandler •Stromile Swift

As you can see above most of these guys are average or slightly above average players, the only star is LaMarcus Aldridge. None of these guys are close to even sniffing the top 5. In fact the last 2nd overall pick who is Hall of Fame caliber was Jason Kidd in 1994. Granted the verdict is still out on a couple of the more recent picks especially Jabari Parker, but I don’t see him becoming HoF status.

So in a weird way Durant is the underdog who has overcome, everyone likes the underdog. Then there’s the fact he’s a very chill & quiet guy. He goes on a rage once in a while but not very often, he’s significantly more likeable than LeBron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 Durant is not the best player in the world.  He has never won a title. People can watch his game and not pick it apart because there is no threat of him taking over Lebron’s reign.  If Durant had a couple titles and one the last mvp or two I bet people would be more critical.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Durant is not the best player in the world.  He has never won a title. People can watch his game and not pick it apart because there is no threat of him taking over Lebron’s reign.  If Durant had a couple titles and one the last mvp or two I bet people would be more critical.

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 I agree that he isn’t in the same tier as the GOATs but let’s not act like great things weren’t expected of him. He averaged 26 and 11 as a true freshman, and the only reason he wasn’t picked number 1 was because Oden was perceived to be the next great big man. When he won MVP, everyone was questioning whether he or LeBron was the best player in the league. He should be subject to the same level of criticism as LeBron. 

[I.C.Y.U.NV.MEParticipant]

 I agree that he isn’t in the same tier as the GOATs but let’s not act like great things weren’t expected of him. He averaged 26 and 11 as a true freshman, and the only reason he wasn’t picked number 1 was because Oden was perceived to be the next great big man. When he won MVP, everyone was questioning whether he or LeBron was the best player in the league. He should be subject to the same level of criticism as LeBron. 

[holefillers1Participant]

 I feel what you’re saying. My point is people don’t compare the second or third best players in the league to Jordan and Kobe.  Therefore his off nights are not as scrutinized.  Plus no title. With championships comes scrutiny. 

 

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 I feel what you’re saying. My point is people don’t compare the second or third best players in the league to Jordan and Kobe.  Therefore his off nights are not as scrutinized.  Plus no title. With championships comes scrutiny. 

 

 

[XYRYXParticipant]

I think people hate(d) so much about LeBron not becuase he left at all but HOW he left Cleveland. 

[XYRYXParticipant]

I think people hate(d) so much about LeBron not becuase he left at all but HOW he left Cleveland. 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

I think the Durant love affair began with him making the finals in 2012. Him and Westbrook were just 23 at the time, while Harden and Ibaka were just 22.

Myself, and some people in the media almost just assumed that future championships were an inevitability. 4 years later and with the Warriors looking like a dynastly that is no longer a "sure thing"

Personally I think Durant should sign an extension and try to win a chip with the Thunder, and as he gets older I do expect him to win a championship or two in order to cement his legacy. The media is beginning to get more critical of him and I am as well. 

That being said, this comparison of him to Wilkins is absurd. KD is not just a scorer, he’s a terrific passer (one of the better non guard passers in the league), a very good rebounder (arguably the best non big-man rebounder in the league), and he’s an underrated defender. If you want to deride his play by comparing him to other top players who never won titles, someone like Elgin Baylor or Charles Barkley makes more sense. Even if he never wins a title, I guarentee he’ll still end up a top 25 player all time by the time he retires.  

 

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

I think the Durant love affair began with him making the finals in 2012. Him and Westbrook were just 23 at the time, while Harden and Ibaka were just 22.

Myself, and some people in the media almost just assumed that future championships were an inevitability. 4 years later and with the Warriors looking like a dynastly that is no longer a "sure thing"

Personally I think Durant should sign an extension and try to win a chip with the Thunder, and as he gets older I do expect him to win a championship or two in order to cement his legacy. The media is beginning to get more critical of him and I am as well. 

That being said, this comparison of him to Wilkins is absurd. KD is not just a scorer, he’s a terrific passer (one of the better non guard passers in the league), a very good rebounder (arguably the best non big-man rebounder in the league), and he’s an underrated defender. If you want to deride his play by comparing him to other top players who never won titles, someone like Elgin Baylor or Charles Barkley makes more sense. Even if he never wins a title, I guarentee he’ll still end up a top 25 player all time by the time he retires.  

 

 

 

[2quick4uParticipant]

people hates lebron because he took the easy path going to miami to play next to 2 superstars, and if you’re considered "the chosen one", that is a move people don’t like because he was supposed to make a run "a la jordan", that means, staying at home and raising everyone’s game around him instead of leaving to play with 2 consecrated all-stars..

before arriving to miami, wade made the 1st all nba team 2 years in a row and was with kobe the best guard in the league while bosh averaged 24pts/11rb the year before going to miami and was at 25 a 5 year all-star already..

it’s funny how people says jordan won titles because of pippen and how good or talented those bulls were, but the thing is that it’s jordan who raised everyone game and it’s jordan who made pippen an all time great..off course pippen had to have the will to become a better player but truth is that pippen wasn’t a star when he entered the league, not even close..his rookie season just averaged 8pts/4rb/2ast and his 2nd year 14pts/6rb/3ast and didn’t become all-star until his 3rd year..just look at his numbers/achivements after jordan retired in 98..

people says how bad those lebron’s cavs were but jordan’s bulls before winning the 1st ring in 90′ weren’t a lot better and yet were facing a much harder competition..2 years before winning the ring pippen was nothing more than a promising young player, horace grant was the 3rd best player on that team but was nothing close to a star..he was "just" a tough player who averaged 12pts/8 rb and was way less talented than ilgauskas..bulls didn’t even have a rim protector..

and actually this was the same team that later won 3 rings in a row with the only difference that pippen raised his game..or better said, jordan raised pippen’s game..the same way steph curry is doing with klay thompson and draymond green..and that’s the way lebron was supposed to do..

and about durant..i don’t know what’s the deal with him and how cowherd dares to compare him with wilkins..

first of all, durant is just 27 and has already played 1 nba final, something jordan didn’t do at that age for example..and something wilkins never did..

second, durant is been a top 3 player in the league in the last decade (2010-2016) and actually he’s been a 5 time all nba 1st team at just 27..while wilkins was never considered during his whole career a top 5 player(i’d say he wasn’t even a top 10 player most part of his career) in the league and just made once the 1st all nba team..

wilkins was just a scorer and actually a limited one(in terms of talent and versatility) that relied a lot in his physical tools and was unable to make his teammates better averaging just 2’5 ast in his career and 3’8ast his best season..while durant entered the league averaging just 0’7 triples a game and 2’4 ast with a 43% FG and now has become the most prolific and complete scorer in the game with curry, and is averaging 2’6 3p and 5 ast a game with a +50% FG..while having 4 scoring titles already..

yes durant doesn’t have a title yet BUT truth is that after that superyoung thunders team made the finals in 2012(durant/westbrook were 23) they haven’t been able to be consistent in their progression because of injuries..

the year after making the finals in 2013, westbrook got injured for playoffs, 2 years later in 2014 ibaka, who was the only center of the team, got injured and then in 2015 durant missed the whole year..so hopefully this 2016 will be the 1st year with the whole team healthy..so let’s see what happens because if it wasn’t for injuries may be the story would be different..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2quick4uParticipant]

people hates lebron because he took the easy path going to miami to play next to 2 superstars, and if you’re considered "the chosen one", that is a move people don’t like because he was supposed to make a run "a la jordan", that means, staying at home and raising everyone’s game around him instead of leaving to play with 2 consecrated all-stars..

before arriving to miami, wade made the 1st all nba team 2 years in a row and was with kobe the best guard in the league while bosh averaged 24pts/11rb the year before going to miami and was at 25 a 5 year all-star already..

it’s funny how people says jordan won titles because of pippen and how good or talented those bulls were, but the thing is that it’s jordan who raised everyone game and it’s jordan who made pippen an all time great..off course pippen had to have the will to become a better player but truth is that pippen wasn’t a star when he entered the league, not even close..his rookie season just averaged 8pts/4rb/2ast and his 2nd year 14pts/6rb/3ast and didn’t become all-star until his 3rd year..just look at his numbers/achivements after jordan retired in 98..

people says how bad those lebron’s cavs were but jordan’s bulls before winning the 1st ring in 90′ weren’t a lot better and yet were facing a much harder competition..2 years before winning the ring pippen was nothing more than a promising young player, horace grant was the 3rd best player on that team but was nothing close to a star..he was "just" a tough player who averaged 12pts/8 rb and was way less talented than ilgauskas..bulls didn’t even have a rim protector..

and actually this was the same team that later won 3 rings in a row with the only difference that pippen raised his game..or better said, jordan raised pippen’s game..the same way steph curry is doing with klay thompson and draymond green..and that’s the way lebron was supposed to do..

and about durant..i don’t know what’s the deal with him and how cowherd dares to compare him with wilkins..

first of all, durant is just 27 and has already played 1 nba final, something jordan didn’t do at that age for example..and something wilkins never did..

second, durant is been a top 3 player in the league in the last decade (2010-2016) and actually he’s been a 5 time all nba 1st team at just 27..while wilkins was never considered during his whole career a top 5 player(i’d say he wasn’t even a top 10 player most part of his career) in the league and just made once the 1st all nba team..

wilkins was just a scorer and actually a limited one(in terms of talent and versatility) that relied a lot in his physical tools and was unable to make his teammates better averaging just 2’5 ast in his career and 3’8ast his best season..while durant entered the league averaging just 0’7 triples a game and 2’4 ast with a 43% FG and now has become the most prolific and complete scorer in the game with curry, and is averaging 2’6 3p and 5 ast a game with a +50% FG..while having 4 scoring titles already..

yes durant doesn’t have a title yet BUT truth is that after that superyoung thunders team made the finals in 2012(durant/westbrook were 23) they haven’t been able to be consistent in their progression because of injuries..

the year after making the finals in 2013, westbrook got injured for playoffs, 2 years later in 2014 ibaka, who was the only center of the team, got injured and then in 2015 durant missed the whole year..so hopefully this 2016 will be the 1st year with the whole team healthy..so let’s see what happens because if it wasn’t for injuries may be the story would be different..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I really dislike the notion that KD isn’t a "winner" 

He hasn’t won a championship, sure. Few players do. But his teams consistently win 55 or more games, they consistently advance in the playoffs and they’ve been at worst, the fourth best team in the NBA when fully healthy. Okay they lost to the HEat in the Finals and theyve gotten to the conference finals twice in the six-year window that they’ve been elite. How isn’t that winning? 

I do think there seems to be an odd double standard. LeBron is such a diva and attention seeking personality though that its a lot easier to dislike him. KD, for a long time, came across as more a guy who was just handling his own business, working hard and focusing on basketball. There wasn’t the stupid drama that always surrounds LeBron. 

That has picked up in recent years for KD but I still think it’s blasphemy to call him overrated. He’s probably the 3rd or 4th best player in the NBA. I think most people agree with that. It’s not like he’s putting up empty stats on a middling team that gets bounced in the first round every year. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 I really dislike the notion that KD isn’t a "winner" 

He hasn’t won a championship, sure. Few players do. But his teams consistently win 55 or more games, they consistently advance in the playoffs and they’ve been at worst, the fourth best team in the NBA when fully healthy. Okay they lost to the HEat in the Finals and theyve gotten to the conference finals twice in the six-year window that they’ve been elite. How isn’t that winning? 

I do think there seems to be an odd double standard. LeBron is such a diva and attention seeking personality though that its a lot easier to dislike him. KD, for a long time, came across as more a guy who was just handling his own business, working hard and focusing on basketball. There wasn’t the stupid drama that always surrounds LeBron. 

That has picked up in recent years for KD but I still think it’s blasphemy to call him overrated. He’s probably the 3rd or 4th best player in the NBA. I think most people agree with that. It’s not like he’s putting up empty stats on a middling team that gets bounced in the first round every year. 

 

 

 

 

 

[iguapops420Participant]

 2quick MJ was great, but he isn’t the reason those bulls players were great. He definitely helped push them, but you bring up pippen in 98 but that’s a slightly past his prime Pippen. I back and look at him leading the Bulls to te eastern conference finals without Jordan. Go back and see what he did without MJ in 94&95. Furthermore Dennis Rosman was already and elite rebounder/defender. Things he didn’t change when he became a bull. Kufic was always a slick passin sweet shooting guard in a big mans body. Again didn’t change who he was. Mj’s first supporting cast was nothing to write home about, but the second three peat was an absolutely terrific supporting cast. Kilos went on to become a 20 ppg scorer while retaining his ability to be a point forward. 

[iguapops420Participant]

 2quick MJ was great, but he isn’t the reason those bulls players were great. He definitely helped push them, but you bring up pippen in 98 but that’s a slightly past his prime Pippen. I back and look at him leading the Bulls to te eastern conference finals without Jordan. Go back and see what he did without MJ in 94&95. Furthermore Dennis Rosman was already and elite rebounder/defender. Things he didn’t change when he became a bull. Kufic was always a slick passin sweet shooting guard in a big mans body. Again didn’t change who he was. Mj’s first supporting cast was nothing to write home about, but the second three peat was an absolutely terrific supporting cast. Kilos went on to become a 20 ppg scorer while retaining his ability to be a point forward. 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Big difference.

LeBron, born and raised in Ohio, then drafted by the Ohio NBA team.

Durant, from Washington DC and drafted by a team in Washington State, which then moved to Oklahoma after a season.

The Cavs spent to help LeBron, the Thunder moved along Harden to save some extra profit.

So LeBron left his hometown team, while if Durant goes it will be leaving a team that he did take to the finals once but one that traded away Harden but traded for Kanter.

 

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Big difference.

LeBron, born and raised in Ohio, then drafted by the Ohio NBA team.

Durant, from Washington DC and drafted by a team in Washington State, which then moved to Oklahoma after a season.

The Cavs spent to help LeBron, the Thunder moved along Harden to save some extra profit.

So LeBron left his hometown team, while if Durant goes it will be leaving a team that he did take to the finals once but one that traded away Harden but traded for Kanter.

 

 

 

 

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