share

Concern over Wiggins

wilt_da_stilt
Registered User
Joined: 07/02/2013
Posts: 11
Points: 68
Offline
Concern over Wiggins

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2013/10/post_2.html

Does not sound good, but those were concerns that everyone was already aware of.


Moon River
Moon River's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 873
Points: 1384
Offline
Bill Self

Come on Coach, quit worrying about your toupee (seriously Google it) and get this kid focussed. Everyone agrees he is blessed with talent, he just needs some coaching to get him to where he needs to be.

Memphis Madness
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2011
Posts: 3374
Points: -951
Offline
Shoulda played for Coach Cal.

Shoulda played for Coach Cal. Calipari would have ripped this kid two new ones by now. Wiggins woulda gotten a shoe deal for the foot up his ass.

But, whatever.

Riggin for Felipe Lopez, I mean WIGGINS.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5599
Points: 13181
Offline
Yeah, totally

I mean, look at what Cal did for Archie Goodwin, Alex Poythress and Ryan Harrow last year!

The funny thing is, all you ever hear from Cal in the media is how well everyone is playing. Most of what you hear from Self is, "this guy needs work". He gives guys props, but do you really think he is not motivating Andrew Wiggins. That Calipari has this magic touch that makes his guys any better than a coach like Bill Self? Thinking I'll go with no on that one.

samosas
Registered User
Joined: 09/20/2012
Posts: 255
Points: 475
Offline
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/r

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns

Archie Goodwin is making one million dollars this year.

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
How much did Archie improve

How much did Archie improve over the course of the season? Do you think his stay at Kentucky HELPED his stock?

samosas
Registered User
Joined: 09/20/2012
Posts: 255
Points: 475
Offline
Going to UK gets you exposure

Going to UK gets you exposure and gets you to the league. Daniel Orton averaged four points a game and he's still in the league...because he went to Kentucky. So yes, anybody's stay at UK helps their stock. It's about media just as much as talent.

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
Blue chip prospects are blue

Blue chip prospects are blue chip prospects regardless of what school they go to. Blue chippers are automatically NBA prospects. So what about the exposure? What is the difference b/t the exposure a player would get at Kentucky as opposed to the exposure they would get at Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc? There is no difference. Besides, the only exposure that matters when it comes to getting to the league is the exposure to the decision makers in the NBA, i.e. scouts and GMs who can show up and evaluate players at games regardless of the setting.

Archie was a blue chip prospect who had all the tools to go high. He had the athleticism, the prototype size for his position, the length, slashing ability, open court play and defensive potential. He was projected to go first round all yr, as high as lotto, but he didn't show much improvement at all and ended up a bottom of the first rounder. That doesn't sound like helping a player's stock. Kentucky just lowers the barriers to getting to the NBA. Cal encourages his players to leave whether they're ready or not to make room for his next class. Improvement isn't expected, both in terms of player development or stock. It's not a place where the expectation is to get better in order to be more prepared for NBA ball. It's a place to go to if the player wants the shortest stay possible.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5599
Points: 13181
Offline
Am aware

Still, lets see how his time at UK played out. He starts the season considered by many as a lottery lock, with a lot of that coming from Coach Calipari's words and reputation. Than, Coach Cal drops the "I can't coach you" thing on Archie. Apparently Calipari retracted that statement, nonetheless, did that help Archie Goodwin's draft position? The 12th pick makes $2,090,880.

I understand Goodwin is getting paid, but did Cal really help his cause? Would he have been in a lower draft position staying close to home at Arkansas? That is my point. Highly regarded players are highly regarded players. His going to Kentucky was not the only reason he was drafted in the first round and in fact, it might have cost him money if anything. It might not have hurt his development, just do not think it helped him get picked where he did. Same goes for the draft stock/questions surrounding once thought to be lottery picks Poythress and Harrow.

GoJOSH HUESTIS
GoJOSH HUESTIS's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 831
Points: 413
Offline
Just about every reporter and

Just about every reporter and the KU coaching staff are saying the same things, he has been the 4th best player in practice on a good day and he has motor issues. I think some glossed over that his jumper is not consistent and his handles need work. He has a quick first step and is very athletic so those issues were hidden against H.S players

JordanC20
Registered User
Joined: 04/26/2009
Posts: 595
Points: -96
Offline
I'm glad he didn't come to

I'm glad he didn't come to Kentucky Poythress will be just as good if not better than him this season.

Memphis Madness
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2011
Posts: 3374
Points: -951
Offline
QJH, I have also heard that

QJH,

I have also heard that Tarik Black is the best big man on Kansas. Good for him, I really like the guy, but he is not projected as an NBA star. He has good strength and can box out but he is not a great rebounder for his size. He also seems like a slow jumper although he can get up a bit. He's a legit college power forward, but he gets you in trouble if he has to play center. He and Imbiid might make Kansas an inside team next year.

Wiggins needs to step it up from Day 1 because he could fall. Jabari Parker was the projected number one guy before Wiggins reclassified, and Julius Randle has potential. Dante Exum has some great buzz, too.

This isn't the old days. Even if Wiggins was very very good he still might be the fifth best small forward in the NBA behind LeBron, Durant, Carmelo Anthony, and Paul George. Wiggins will also be limited if he doesn't have a reliable 3 point shot.

He needs the motor, the drive, the shooting skills, and a killer instinct. If not, he might end up being the next Rudy Gay. A very good player -- just not great.

I'm also worried that Wiggins was supposedly the best guy in high school last year. But, if he isn't great, that doesn't say much about the rest of the class. And, with the 2014 draft projected to be made up of mostly freshman, then this could end up being a weaker than expected draft.

James Michael McAdoo at number 1?

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
I fully expect Black to be

I fully expect Black to be the starting C and Perry Ellis the starting PF. Both those guys are currently better than Embiid and it isn't really close. Black isn't anything special as an NBA prospect, but he's solid, has strength and has experience. Unlike at his previous stop, Kansas has a system that is designed to highlight bigs. It is also a system that is designed to help bigs play with other bigs with their high low and flex stuff.

This class is great, no doubt it. Keep in mind that none of these guys are even close to being finished products. Freshmen aren't just drafted because of how good they are now.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5599
Points: 13181
Offline
If possible

Could you show me one source that says that Tarik Black has been the best big man on Kansas? Because I have heard Perry Ellis has been the most impressive and Joel Embiid may have enough impact physically/athletically to give Black a run for his money at the 5 (which is what Tarik Black plays at the college level, for sure).

Wiggins could indeed slip, just doubt it will be from Day 1. If someone is going to go past Wiggins, they have to prove themselves as well. All we are hearing right now is how these guys are looking in practice and scrimmages. I saw KU's scrimmage, Wiggins looked like he was not easy to handle. If Wiggins is going to fall, it has to be because other guys are actually playing better or looking like better pro prospects.

Right now, I am just hearing about these guys individually as opposed to how they look in a serious competitive setting. Moving a guy up due to his playing below the level you feel he should in a practice (ONE PRACTICE), than feeling he might not be the #1 pick because you are hearing (as opposed to SEEING) guys might be doing well in their practices just fails to convince me of much. It says Andrew Wiggins has some things to work on (which we knew already, hopefully) and that we still have to watch these other guys to see if they have indeed surpassed a prospect who indeed, looked better than them down the line. Have yet to be convinced, especially since the person that wrote said article has not seen either Julius Randle or Jabari Parker play in a long time.

44ears81
44ears81's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/26/2013
Posts: 75
Points: -407
Offline
This article is grade a

This article is grade a bologna. I'm an nba scout and this kid is a cant miss prospect. If give him a 250 million dollar shoe deal

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
None of these criticisms are

None of these criticisms are new so I dunno why people are surprised reading them again. Wiggins is held in high regard because of what he could become, not because of what he is currently. It's like it was already accepted that he's the #1 pick and an automatic superstar without him earning it. His athleticism is great, his skill level is not. Until he improves his skill level, strength and motor, it won't be easy for him to impose himself on opposing defenses like people expect him to.

I read these reports and it sounds exactly like what was said about Rudy Gay when he was in college. Rudy didn't get as much hype as Wiggins, but he was expected to be a special talent as well with super rare athletic and physical qualities. I think Wiggins and Rudy are closer than people care to admit.

Memphis Madness
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2011
Posts: 3374
Points: -951
Offline
Siggy, Rudy Gay might be

Siggy,

Rudy Gay might be bigger. He is about 6'8 or even taller. If Wiggins is 6'7 or smaller then Rudy might have a size advantage.

I heard of Rudy Gay out of high school but nothing like Wiggins. LeBron was HUGE but you could obviously see his talent and his size was unreal. Felipe Lopez got a TON of hype too coming out of high school but he never really panned out. He was basically just your 6'6 or 6'7 athletic wing player.

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
Gay was measured at 6'8

Gay was measured at 6'8 around the time he was drafted. Wiggins has been measured at 6'8 in shoes. Gay is a bit longer with his freakish length, but both were pretty much the same player out of HS in terms of skills, physical ability and temperament. Wiggins might have been a bit faster in the open court, Gay a little more advanced in terms of strength, but both are/were dominant vertical athletes who could simply get whatever they wanted at the HS level by out-jumping, shooting over and out-reaching the competition. Both had questionable ball skills and both had issues with lack of aggression. Rudy improved his ball skills and responded to the questions surrounding his lack of aggression by shooting more, eventually developing poor shot selection. We'll see how Andrew responds to the same criticisms.

Memphis Madness
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2011
Posts: 3374
Points: -951
Offline
Kansas should go with Embiid

Kansas should go with Embiid as soon as possible. He's a legit center. Tarik Black is a power forward who would get into even more SERIOUS foul trouble if he has to play center. Then put Wiggins at the 3 and Selden at the 2.

Tarik Black is a guy who will box out, play hard, and score garbage buckets. He's probably a third option AT BEST, more like a fourth option.

Looks like Wiggins and Selden should be the main two options on offense with Embiid being the rim protector. Perry Ellis can anchor the second unit.

This Kansas team has potential so the best thing to do there is put everyone in the best place to succeed and then get over the growing pains. Then by tournament time they will be ready to go.

If Wiggins, Seldon, and Embiid turn out to be Kansas' 3 best players next year, then they could go to the Final Four. If your best two guys though are Tarik Black and Perry Ellis then I don't think they will go far.

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
Both Black and Embiid are

Both Black and Embiid are college centers. College PFs tend to be tweeners or even big SFs because of the typical 4 out 1 in style that's prevalent in college ball. Black is a much better player than Embiid atm so I expect him to start.

Perry Ellis has been their most improved and best player overall for Kansas. I don't think there's any way he doesn't start.

I expect the starting lineup to be:

Tharpe/Selden/Wiggins/Ellis/Black

It should be that lineup all yr too barring injury.

Seems like you're discounting experience/readiness and expecting the young guns to fulfill their potential in the span of 1 yr. Self should and will play whoever is the better player regardless of hype or draft potential.

CavFanPR
Registered User
Joined: 04/08/2013
Posts: 578
Points: -1243
Offline
He's just a 19 year old kid.

He's just a 19 year old kid. The pressure might be getting to him. High school basketball is one thing, college is another. The competition is though and his flaws will be exposed. He's a great dunker and we all know how athletic he is, but what else can he do?

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5599
Points: 13181
Offline
His spin move is amazing

He has a solid floater that could become damn near unstoppable. Has massive defensive potential. Really quick, amazing second jump and he is hard to keep off the glass. His shot is not as bad as people are saying and while he is not incredibly confident in the midrange, he at the very least has massive potential to contribute at all three levels.

Saw he and your boy Anthony Bennett at the Hoop Summit in 2012. If Wiggins was not better, he was damn near the same level. Will say, he certainly looked better than Bennett in the practices. This is with Bennett being two years older. Wiggins is 18 right now, will be 19 in February. Feel that this is just a lot of smoke right now, personally. He may not be killing it in practices, my feeling is just wait for the games to start. Guessing people will have a tough time saying Wiggins is not the best player on this team by than.

Malcolmx
Malcolmx's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2010
Posts: 707
Points: 1327
Offline
Can anyone post the actual

Can anyone post the actual article please?

omphalos
omphalos's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2010
Posts: 3206
Points: 4552
Offline
This is Harrison Barnes all

This is Harrison Barnes all over again; a kid with a quiet demeanour on a talented team for a storied program. He'll cop all the criticism for having a "weak handle" and "poor isolation" and his numbers might not be great and he might not show his athleticism and he will stagnate a bit in college and his stock might fall but if it does the same thing will happen - people will be reminded why he was the consensus #1 out of high school and he'll make people who passed on him in the moment look foolish.

No prospect is going to match the hype Wiggins/Barnes/Drummond had going into college. I just hope we don't see something ridiculous like a MKG type player being taken over Wiggins.

rope
Registered User
Joined: 05/16/2013
Posts: 115
Points: 221
Offline
It's not like this is the

It's not like this is the first time he has faced high level competition. He has faired well in a lot of circumstances already with players at his level of development and higher. I wouldn't get too hung up on reports off of a couple of days of practice. The other kids are good, too. We won't have to wait long for real games and he doesn't have to reach his potential on Day One.

TYO
Registered User
Joined: 07/24/2009
Posts: 58
Points: 98
Offline
KU had another scrimmage

KU had another scrimmage today & Wiggins looked extremely aggressive today. He had his jumper falling as well from deep. Looks like he's hearing the criticisms and is ready to respond.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 8123
Points: 16233
Offline
The Tale of Two Jeff's

He's a young guy, and I suspect he'll improve greatly over the season. That being said, guys have said positive things about him too. Jeff Goodman is entitled to his opinion, but he's not the law of the land.

Obviously a lot of guys haven't seen him yet at a college level, but Jeff Van Gundy was with the team this past week and...

Jeff Van Gundy said this

- “More than anything is his ability to get down and move his feet defensively,” Van Gundy, a 54-year-old native of Indio, Calif., said. “That sounds crazy because everybody watches offense. As somebody who has always looked at the game defensively, I was really impressed with that part of his game. He’s very much under control on the offensive end. I’m used to young guys ... you see the talent, but they play a little bit young, wild and crazy. You don’t see that out here. They play under control. I like the big Embiid (Joel) kid. He’s a talented guy, has good touch, is athletic. They’ve got some good players.”

Of Wiggins’ outside shot, Van Gundy said of the athletic wing: “He looked like a pretty good shooter to me. It’ll get better obviously.

“If I compare him to guys who came into the league out of high school, even like a LeBron (James) ... those guys weren’t comfortable shooting the ball when they came in the league. I had (Dwyane) Wade as a rookie. He was coming out of college. He (Wiggins) seems more comfortable shooting the ball than most of the other athletic guys. He’s obviously an athlete. He seems to be a guy who wants to pass the ball, which is great.”

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2013/oct/19/ku-unselfishness-impresses-ex-...

Siggy
Registered User
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 2926
Points: 5182
Offline
Goodman wasn't just using his

Goodman wasn't just using his eyes though. He quoted pro scouts too.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 8123
Points: 16233
Offline
Stan* those Van Gundy bros

Stan* those Van Gundy bros

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2774
Points: 1774
Offline
I do find it interesting the

I do find it interesting the contrast with Parker at Duke. Coach K has been saying all along this preseason road that Jabari is "their best player", and it's not even like it's a question. And keep in mind, Duke's next 3-4 best players are not freshman, where a lot of times in practices coaches see veteran guys playing hard and don't want to jump to claim a freshman is better than them. Most of the other talented guys on KU are freshman. Whatever. We'll see what happens when the games begin, but I always thought annointing Wiggins a sure-fire number 1 pick with this class, without seeing him play a minute yet was ridiculous.

RSS: Syndicate content