Combine Numbers Unimpressive This Year.
Anyone else feeling that there so a lack of elite athletic ability in this draft? I mean i remember looking at the 08 draft with rose, there was multiple ( 5+ with people verts in the 40's)
I don't if you guys realize this but these numbers are horrible! Wall with a standing vert of 30" and he is suppose to be elite? Not saying im elite, but in highschool i recorded a 32.1" standing vert. with 36" max.
The ONLY this thing makes this group decent in the massive length these players have.
The combine testing numbers weren't off the charts this year, but I still don't take them too seriously. According to the tests, Gordon Hayward is a better athlete than Devin Ebanks. He tested better than Ebanks in nearly every measurement.
Brook Lopez tested as one of the worst athletes (maybe the worst) in 2008 and even fell to the 10th pick because of it. I think GM's are regretting that now.
I was going to make the same Ebanks comment.. Did you see that Ebanks vert was pretty much exactly like Tinny Gallon's numbers??? LoL That is some crazy stuff..
One person only had a 40 inch lol thats crazy
I've never been a fan of comparing the combine numbers year to year. That being said, I think the real value of the athletic results is to compare prospect to each other.
Also, I wouldn't take the combine results to be totally exact. I mean, personally, when I have a grueling lower body workout the day before, my vert is at least 2 inches lower than my max (24... I know, it's sad). It's totally feasible that some of these guys worked out way more than others recently.
This draft class is the "year of the bigman" (PF/C), and this is a pretty weak class for guards (the best athletes on the court are usually guards ofcourse), so it only makes sense that you don't see off the charts vertical test.
Well if you u compare they aren't as impressive but the thing is your not looking for their numbers to be the same higher lower it just gives u a general idea but just cuz I don't hit the weight and am less statistically gifted then this other dude doesn't mean he can play like I can and do things I can do unless your looking for the exact same player stats doesn't matter really
Devin Ebanks actually isn't a great athlete at all. He might be slightly more athletic in games than Hayward, but if he is it's not by much. Ebanks LOOKS like he'd be a good athlete because he's smooth and has a long build, but when I watch him run and jump and stuff he comes off as a very similar athlete to Austin Daye, who also isn't a great athlete by any stretch. I'm not really surprised that he has slightly worse athletic numbers than Hayward at all.
Also, standing vert isn't very important in basketball. That 2-step vertical is much more important because it's rare that you make plays leaping in the NBA from static positions, and even when you do (rebounding, blocking shots) it's more about the quickness of your jump than the height. You make plays in basketball by taking 2-steps and leaping 9 times out of 10.
Which makes Wesley Johnson, to me the biggest winner of the workouts so far. He register the highest no-step vert, and tested a very impressive 37 inches, and measuring a quarter inch shorter than Carmelo without shoes with a 7'1" wingspan to boot, I think GM's will find Johnson to be the safest pick outside of Turner in the lottery this year. DX posted a video of his workout with Ed Davis (also a winner with his 36 inch vert, and 12 ft max reach). Check it out, its hard not to be a little impressed.
And while only Terrico White had a 40 inch vertical, Wall's 39 is nothing to look down at, especially with his 6'4 height and 6'9 wingspan. Physically, he's definitely in the conversation for best PG prospect ever.
Other winners include Xavier Henry who came in great shape and registered 36.5 vert, and showed good end to end speed. I personally believe he's one of the more unappreciated prospects in the draft. He's got excellent offensive savvy, and is some good NBA conditioning away from being a starter in the league. As he polishes his game, he could be a Paul Pierce lite, a 16-19 point scorer.
Derrick Favors who's 35.5 vert gives him the highest reach in the draft, and whose physical profile and young age (18 until after the draft) has the potential to become a force on both ends of the floor. He was an absolute beast on the offensive glass, usually deferring to Lawal on defensive boards to trigger the break, but with his nice hands, developing range, and immense size with some potential for growth, you have an elite post prospect.
Speaking of immense post prospects, you'll be hard pressed to find one who's skill/size combo is as gargantuan as Demarcus Cousins. His vert was predicably low, but his game has no predication on his vert. Though you cant expect him to be a big time weakside shotblocker, he'll still get his handful of block by simply bodying his man and winning through leverage. He moves without the ball in the post better than any post prospect since Tim Duncan. He's extremely adept at keeping his man pinned, and catching and turning to the side of least resistance. If it wasn't for his glazed over look and 16% body fat, he could be the top pick.
I would be remiss not mention Luke Babbitt, who has been flying up draft boards after being on of the most productive players in college, got two huge boosts over the past week, measuring 6'7.5" barefeet, and jumping a 37.5 max vert. He physical tests out a lot like Joe Alexander, Richard Jefferson, and Hakim Warrick, with a smooth complete offensive game.
There's many other players I left out, like Patterson, Brackens, Aminu, A. Johnson, and Turner, but this draft is deep... very deep.
also, Johnson had a very good sprint time regardless of the fact that he doesnt really "know" how to run. he barely lifts his knees. if he had any track experience or training, he would have a better time. that being said, he may be the fastest player without the ball in the draft. Wall is the fastest guy with the ball I think that was at the combine but I think the fastest guy with the ball in college this past year without a doubt was Ish Smith. He just doesnt finish as well as Wall and some others.
I think people get to worked up in combine numbers for both the NBA and NFL. Is a 40 inch vertical going to impact your game so much more than a 37 inch?
In timing drills, what if you just don't get of the whistle/buzzer at that exact moment while someone else does? Then it is not purely a measure of each players speed, but to some extent their ability to react to a whistle or buzzer. Is .03 sec that detrimental to your game as well?
If a guy can ball, he can ball. If he can't, then he can't. A 40" vertical isn't going to make you a star by any means. Look at Gerald Green.
I think a valueable test for a combine would be a test that measured how quickly and how high a second and third jump reps were. That seems very relavant, there are players who can get pump faked, hit the ground, and recover high enough to alter or block a shot. Those jump numbers seem very important to basketball, especially from a defensive end. I don't say get rid of the standing and max verts, but to add a test like that would give GM's a more game relevant idea of how a player jumps.
standing jump is pretty important when getting rebounds. most of the time you arent taking a step or 2 to get it because you dont have time to. but yeah you do have to be quick too or long. you can see it with the lakers how gasol and bynum get rebounds from the no step and being long
@Mkadoza im sorry but favors numbers dont make him a potential force on offense.. yes on defense but not on offense. skills dictate that not athletic ability and he has a long way before he has enough skill hell even the nets say theres no way he would start this year because hes raw and he might start by mid season of his second year
these numbers arent as important as some try to make it. joe alexander was a athletic freak..not too skilled though
brook lopez ..lots of skill not very athletic
Did anyone see that willie warren only had a 31.5 maxium vert this really surprised me becuz when i watch this dunk i dont understand
Warren's athletic numbers probably dont mean much because he was just coming off an injury when the combine started. He has a higher vertical than tested.
^How was that a tech!?
yeah when he is healthy it could be something like 36-38 i think..
here is another one
I'm just sorry for the poor guy warren dunked on...
I've been telling everybody all year, Devin Ebanks is an overrated athlete
I watched EVERY GAME he played this year,
He doesnt dunk on people, he's not an explosive leaper
Anyway, i'm just really surprised w/ the Combine numbers
and with wall getting a 30" standing vert? I thought he was supposed to be a rare athlete
i think really the Players dont take these seriously
It's different when you're in the game, and most guys get faster, strong and more athletic when they have a year under their belt anyway.