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BenchWarmer
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Choose a player

Simply choose a hypothetical player...through let's say a decade of play

Player A) 23.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 spg and 0.6 bpg, on 45.1 fg%, 33.6 3p% and 83.4 ft% in 35.7 mpg
4 finals appearances
3 rings
0 finals MVPs

Player B) 27.6 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg and 0.8 bpg, on 48.8 fg%, 33.6 3p% and 74.6 ft% in 38.9 mpg
3 finals appearances
1 ring
1 finals MVP

(I left out individual awards like MVP and allstar because they are voted) Who do you choose?


BruinSteve
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So I assume this is kobe and

So I assume this is kobe and lebron's first 10 years of play. You can't really compare their stats due to kobe having to take a back seat to Shaq for the majority of the beginning of their careers. Regardless, lebron had a better individual performance. This still doesn't refute what most Lebron naysayers bring up, the fact lebron averaged 17ppg one finals, and shot 36% from the floor in the other. Obviously, Lebron shot very well in the finals last year and if he replicates that performance 2 or 3 more times he will likely surpass Kobe. So before we compare Lebron with kobe, jordan, or any other great we have to wait and watch how he plays for the rest of his career.

BenchWarmer
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I'm not saying any names. No

I'm not saying any names. No ifs, ands or buts who would you choose?

aamir543
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Dude, it's obvious it's

Dude, it's obvious it's Lebron's first 9 years and Kobe's first 12 years, I know you wanted to have some suspense but guys like us on this site know the stats of the Superstars at the very least.

BenchWarmer
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Wasn't intended to be hard,

Wasn't intended to be hard, but no its lebrons to date and kobes first 10.
Just that there are biases towards players.

Future_Scout
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If Lebron was with Shaq

If Lebron was with Shaq nobody would've had to take a back seat because lebron would be able to include him, they would've formed a true dynasty.

Lebron>Kobe, prime or not.

BenchWarmer
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@Bruin that was supposed to

@Bruin that was supposed to be an addition to my post., but thanks for ruining the suspense. Haha

I see what you mean but is it fair to also assume that if he had not played behind shaq he would not have the championships (and maybe shaq wouldn't either, even thogh he was crazy dominant).
Do you think if lebron got another this year and a finals mvp, would that put him as equal to kobe because the finals MVPs are tied and lebron has 3 mvps? (soon to be four imo)

cuseflynn10
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Player A

I'll take 3 rings over 1 ring any day. That is simply what it comes down to for me.

BenchWarmer
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So that's your criteria. Do

So that's your criteria. Do you take Derek Fisher over Lebron because he to is up 3 rings to 1 in their first ten years?

BenchWarmer
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Let's add another layer since

Let's add another layer since people want rings as a criteria

Player A) 23.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 spg and 0.6 bpg, on 45.1 fg%, 33.6 3p% and 83.4 ft% in 35.7 mpg
4 finals appearances
3 rings
0 finals MVPs

Player C (aslo in first 10 years): 17.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.8 bpg on 48.5 fg%, 32.9 3pt% and 68.8 ft% in 35.7 mpg
5 finals appearences
5 rings
0 finals MVPs

cuseflynn10
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Rings

When you are comparing two players who have nearly identical statistics, it has to come down to rings. Maybe as fans we overlook it and say that there are so many great players and only a few can get rings, but let's face it, the reason these guys play the game is to win rings.

If you have ever played in a basketball league whether a rec league, CYO, high school, college, or professional, the ultimate goal is to be the champion at the end of every season. Anyone who has ever played a sport wants to be the best, and you have to win to be the best. If a player had great stats, but couldn't win the big games, they wouldn't be among the greats. Take Tracy McGrady for example. He was one of the most dominant players in the league, but he couldn't win when it mattered. Look at Carmelo. He hasn't won when it mattered. Players like McGrady and Melo will be remembered for a long time, but they both need rings to be elevated to that next level.

Obviously you don't take Fisher and Horry over LeBron, because their not in the same class. But when you compare players in the same tier such as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, I think rings do come in to play. What makes MJ a legend? The fact he went 6 for 6 in Championships with 6 Finals MVPs. What would people say if LeBron never won a title. What would people say if KD never wins a title. The greatests (with an s) of all time, have to win rings, it is that simple. In the words of Herm Edwards, "You play to win the game."

BenchWarmer
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That totally true, it will

That totally true, it will always come down to rings when comparing greats but should Finals MVPs be considered more of a factor? You get a ring because you were on the best team, you get a Finals MVP because you were the best player on the best team.

BenchWarmer
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Also considering what you

Also considering what you just said do you take player C over player A?

BuckeyeGuy
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Cuse...

Nobody would take Robert Horry over Lebron so I don't see how you simply only care about rings

cuseflynn10
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Horry

When did I ever say I would take Robert Horry over LeBron. You can stop putting the words in my mouth thank you. I said I would take 3 rings over 1 ring in this situation, because we are comparing these two "hypothetical players." When two players are so closely related statistically speaking, it has to come down to who gets the job done when it counts.

If I'm playing the role of a GM here, I'll glad take the two extra rings.

BenchWarmer
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Well you did say " I will

Well you did say " I will take 3 rings over 1 anyday" so you kindof led us to that conclusion.

cuseflynn10
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True

I was vague with it, I'll admit, but I thought since the topic was about Player A and Player B, that it would be inferred that it was only those two players. So I do have to take partial blame for being vague.

Bob Ball
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Add Wade

Love to see wades stats added to this seeing as how he's middle ground 2 chips one with an MVP the other with out

phila9012
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bottom line if lebron had

bottom line if lebron had help he would have won one or 2 championships in cleveland. Kobe was the second option on his first 3 championships. Lebron did everything for cleveland and made them contenders. In the prime of his career when kobe had no help he got the lakers 40 to 45 wins. From the time lebron was 21 (which clearly wasnt his prime) he got the cavs a top 4 seed and he got them fifty wins with help like kobe got once shaq left and before they got gasol.

Purple-and-gold17
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Lebron does have the ability

Lebron does have the ability to make other around him better....but come on Kobe had players like chucky Atkins, smush, parker Kwame brown playing big minutes....lebron wouldnt have gotten those players in the playoff is West....so please stop with your reasoning....and remember Lakers were playing great before we got Gasol with the emergence of Bynum before he went done with his first big injury...

kingofbums
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you cant take two 7 game

you cant take two 7 game series to say that one player is better than the other. you have to look at their ENTIRE CAREER...season games and playoff games. also when looking at rings and using them to back up your guy...its not reasonable to just state how many they have and whoever has more is bettter. i believe finals mvp is all that matters because it shows that the player actually WON the ring and didnt sit behind a more dominant player to get it. this criteria takes away all the robert horry bs. so when you look at it kobe has 2 and lebron has 1. so kobe takes that category. but take in that youre only looking at 14 games to say one player is bettter than the other, which isnt right. so now you move onto season games. needless to say lebron takes that department in both stats wise and MVP's. So, overall they are pretty even but if lebron gets another ring + finals mvp...i dont really think its much of a debate anymore.

lebron haters will always be ignorant about this but just imagine if lebron was the one playing with shaq...sidekick or not that duo would've been just as good if not 10X better.

kingofbums
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you cant take two 7 game

you cant take two 7 game series to say that one player is better than the other. you have to look at their ENTIRE CAREER...season games and playoff games. also when looking at rings and using them to back up your guy...its not reasonable to just state how many they have and whoever has more is bettter. i believe finals mvp is all that matters because it shows that the player actually WON the ring and didnt sit behind a more dominant player to get it. this criteria takes away all the robert horry bs. so when you look at it kobe has 2 and lebron has 1. so kobe takes that category. but take in that youre only looking at 14 games to say one player is bettter than the other, which isnt right. so now you move onto season games. needless to say lebron takes that department in both stats wise and MVP's. So, overall they are pretty even but if lebron gets another ring + finals mvp...i dont really think its much of a debate anymore.

lebron haters will always be ignorant about this but just imagine if lebron was the one playing with shaq...sidekick or not that duo would've been just as good if not 10X better.

CAROLINA BLUE NICK
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I'm taking Lebron.Even though

I'm taking Lebron.Even though I do agree with rings being a deciding factor. What Lebron brings to the game compared to Kobe to me is unmatched. His overall impact to me is greater than that of Kobes. And I am a fan of both. So its no bias here. Kobe has proven that he can win while being the "man" as he won in 2009 and 2010 but his first 3 clearly he was not the best player on those teams. He was a major contributor to it but Shaq was the most dominant player at those times. But to piggyback on what Cuse said in terms of rings deciding greatness. There has to be some defining line that seperates equally great players. When you reach the status of a Jordan, Kobe and Lebron, rings are what is going to ultimately decide whether you are the greatest or one of the greatest. So as of now Kobe is considered the greater player above Lebron because of the rings. But if I am choosing a player to start my franchise with between Kobe and Lebron, i'm taking Lebron with no hesitation. But something I want to just throw out there...since rings are a deciding factor, why is it that more people consider Jordan the greater player than Bill Russell?

cuseflynn10
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Success vs. Stats

To me if we are looking at Kobe and LeBron's entire career, it comes down to success vs. stats. Kobe has 6 rings to LeBron's one ring, but LeBron will likely finish with better all around stats. If Kobe ends with 6 rings, I don't necessarily think LeBron has to get 5+ more to be better, but considering he is in Miami now with D-Wade and Bosh, he at least needs to win 3 more I think to be on the same level when we take their entire careers into consideration. That's just how I view it. One ring isn't going to be enough in my book to place LeBron over Kobe. He'll probably need at least 4.

On a side note, I would love to see LeBron return to Cleveland. Imagine Kyrie/Dion/LeBron/2013Pick/Varejao and a 2014 pick would also be high up there. I think LeBron will have a better chance to win in Cleveland from the 2014-15 season and beyond, and he may just return since D-Wade and Bosh won't be in their primes at that time.

BenchWarmer
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Championship Kobe has 5 rings

Championship Kobe has 5 rings not 6. You say Lebron needs three more because of D wade and Bosh? I suggest you go look at shaqs stats during the threepeat Kobe was in. What if Lebron gets another finals MVP. Would that put him on par with Kobe because Kobe has only 2 finals mvp? That's two times each they have led their team to championships?

Side note, lebron in Cleveland would be pretty sweet

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