[asimpsonxdParticipant]

I was reading somewhere that trading out of the first round for multiple second rounders for salary reasons could be a good idea….

i know everyone will say this is the best draft class, why trade down but i think there are some good aspects of doing this.

 1st rounders are guarenteed contracts that count against the cap AND luxury, while 2nd rounders are nonguarenteed and only count against the cap and NOT against the luxury. If the bulls could trade their own pick ~18-20 they could recieve a package of:

 

Milwaukee picks: 31, 35, and 49

Philadelphia picks: 32, 39, and 45

 

Do you guys think this would be a worthwile trade? It would drastically help fill out the team and maintain more financial flexibility, and given the depth of this draft and the gems the bulls find in the later 1st round i think its worthwile to consider. Remember draft is before FA signings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I agree with trading down too, after a certain point.

After the BIG THREE — Wiggins, Embiid, and Parker — there is a drop off to the next tier of guys (Randle, Exum, Smart), and I wouldn’t call anyone a surefire SUPERSTAR. 

I really like a guy like Aaron Gordon, but what is the difference between Gordon at 6 or 7, and James McAdoo in the early second round?  Are they fairly close to being the same guy?

You could also compare Tyler Ennis (who has lottery hype) to Shabazz Napier who can really tear it up with drives, shooting, and even rebounding. 

I would even throw Doug McDermott in there as a poor man’s Jabari Parker. 

Chicago should look into trading their late first rounder for multiple second round picks. 

The Grizzlies are in the same spot (if they make the playoffs) and I posted on our board that we should consider trading down (picking up Napier as a backup point guard and an instant offense combo guard off the bench, with McAdoo being an athletic ‘glue guy’ who could replace Ed Davis).  The Grizzlies also lack a second round pick and will have to spend some money this offseason, so if we could come away with two second rounders and CASH for a mediocre first round pick, we should do it.

I would trade our pick to Philly for picks at 32 and 39.  I would even trade our pick for their picks at 39 and 45 if they also threw in CASH plus a future second rounder.

For the Bulls, they have their CORE with a (healthy) D Rose, Noah, and Jimmy Butler.  They could use another CORE guy but I think those guys will be off the table by the 10th pick.  They would be better off trading down for cheap, quality depth. 

Philly or Milwaukee might want to move up too, if they see a guy they like.  If those two teams finish in the top three then they will have their franchise rookie.  Both teams are young anyway so they might not want to draft and carry 3 second round picks.  Philly or Milwaukee would be better off trading 3 second rounders for one first rounder to get one better young player.  … the Bulls or Grizzlies on the other hand, need cheap, young depth. 

A veteran playoff team like the Bulls or Grizzlies would also think that they could get a four year college guy to fill a role, or they could draft a guy to stash overseas. 

In this draft, I think you either want to trade UP into a top 3 pick (which would be hard to do), or trade DOWN into multiple picks later on.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I don’t think you want to JUST trade into the Top 3.  I think you want to get into the Top 2-3 tiers.  Tier 1 is the Top 3.  Tier 2 is Exum, Randle, Smart, and maybe Vonleh.  That’s pick #7.  But, their is always some perpetual lottrey team that takes a surprise guy and someone always falls out of the top 2 tiers.  Maybe Smart, because he’s inconsistent and had that incident with a fan, who knows.  Most of the time teams fall in love with positional need and if they need a big they let a very good wing player pass them by and totally reach on a big man.  If the Bulls are able to get into that middle 3rd tier, or even the guy from the 2nd tier that slides, that would be the only way I see them jumping up.

[Scott42444Participant]

 I don’t think you want to JUST trade into the Top 3.  I think you want to get into the Top 2-3 tiers.  Tier 1 is the Top 3.  Tier 2 is Exum, Randle, Smart, and maybe Vonleh.  That’s pick #7.  But, their is always some perpetual lottrey team that takes a surprise guy and someone always falls out of the top 2 tiers.  Maybe Smart, because he’s inconsistent and had that incident with a fan, who knows.  Most of the time teams fall in love with positional need and if they need a big they let a very good wing player pass them by and totally reach on a big man.  If the Bulls are able to get into that middle 3rd tier, or even the guy from the 2nd tier that slides, that would be the only way I see them jumping up.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I agree with trading down too, after a certain point.

After the BIG THREE — Wiggins, Embiid, and Parker — there is a drop off to the next tier of guys (Randle, Exum, Smart), and I wouldn’t call anyone a surefire SUPERSTAR. 

I really like a guy like Aaron Gordon, but what is the difference between Gordon at 6 or 7, and James McAdoo in the early second round?  Are they fairly close to being the same guy?

You could also compare Tyler Ennis (who has lottery hype) to Shabazz Napier who can really tear it up with drives, shooting, and even rebounding. 

I would even throw Doug McDermott in there as a poor man’s Jabari Parker. 

Chicago should look into trading their late first rounder for multiple second round picks. 

The Grizzlies are in the same spot (if they make the playoffs) and I posted on our board that we should consider trading down (picking up Napier as a backup point guard and an instant offense combo guard off the bench, with McAdoo being an athletic ‘glue guy’ who could replace Ed Davis).  The Grizzlies also lack a second round pick and will have to spend some money this offseason, so if we could come away with two second rounders and CASH for a mediocre first round pick, we should do it.

I would trade our pick to Philly for picks at 32 and 39.  I would even trade our pick for their picks at 39 and 45 if they also threw in CASH plus a future second rounder.

For the Bulls, they have their CORE with a (healthy) D Rose, Noah, and Jimmy Butler.  They could use another CORE guy but I think those guys will be off the table by the 10th pick.  They would be better off trading down for cheap, quality depth. 

Philly or Milwaukee might want to move up too, if they see a guy they like.  If those two teams finish in the top three then they will have their franchise rookie.  Both teams are young anyway so they might not want to draft and carry 3 second round picks.  Philly or Milwaukee would be better off trading 3 second rounders for one first rounder to get one better young player.  … the Bulls or Grizzlies on the other hand, need cheap, young depth. 

A veteran playoff team like the Bulls or Grizzlies would also think that they could get a four year college guy to fill a role, or they could draft a guy to stash overseas. 

In this draft, I think you either want to trade UP into a top 3 pick (which would be hard to do), or trade DOWN into multiple picks later on.

[Moon RiverParticipant]

Overall, I could definitely see this happening.  It will have to be a draft night trade situation because Milwaukee or Philly would need to know someone was sitting there at 18-20 that they coveted.  This is a very important summer for Chicago.  Amnesty Boozer, get Mirotic state side, get a healthy Rose back and land another superstar who can fit into the mix Thibs has created.  I am not so worried about the defense Thibs will demand of the newcomers because he has put  up with Boozer for the last 3 years so he can work with anyone.

[Moon RiverParticipant]

Overall, I could definitely see this happening.  It will have to be a draft night trade situation because Milwaukee or Philly would need to know someone was sitting there at 18-20 that they coveted.  This is a very important summer for Chicago.  Amnesty Boozer, get Mirotic state side, get a healthy Rose back and land another superstar who can fit into the mix Thibs has created.  I am not so worried about the defense Thibs will demand of the newcomers because he has put  up with Boozer for the last 3 years so he can work with anyone.

[mike_r232Participant]

 I don’t mind trading down with the Bulls pick, but I would also like for them to explore the possibility of trading their pick and the Bobcats pick and move up first.  There are a few guys that would really help them out.  I don’t live in fantasy land, I know they won’t move up and be able to get a top 7 pick, but what about adding someone like Hood to this team?  Really spaces out the floor and fits well next to Butler and Rose.  He’s not the only target, but you get the picture.  

 Trading down gives them more financial flexibility for them to hopefully sign Mirotic and maybe a big level FA this summer (pending a Boozer amnesty, of course).  I like the idea of getting a pick or two in this year’s 2nd round and then a future pick (might even be able to do a 2nd this year and a future 1st).  Here are a few names I’d like to throw out that are currently placed in the second round of this site’s mock that could fill a need for this team.  Not all of them will eventually fall to the second round, but worth talking about:  Stauskas and Hairston (shooters), Napier (Augustin/Nate Robinson role), McAdoo and Chris Walker (potential), Bogdanovic and Antetokounmpo (fairly unknowns with potential), and Jordan Bachynski for shot blocking.  Lots of fun names there!  Not to mention some late first rounders like Payne, Cauley-Stein, Capela, Young and Harrell.  If one of them slid, that’d be great!

[mike_r232Participant]

 I don’t mind trading down with the Bulls pick, but I would also like for them to explore the possibility of trading their pick and the Bobcats pick and move up first.  There are a few guys that would really help them out.  I don’t live in fantasy land, I know they won’t move up and be able to get a top 7 pick, but what about adding someone like Hood to this team?  Really spaces out the floor and fits well next to Butler and Rose.  He’s not the only target, but you get the picture.  

 Trading down gives them more financial flexibility for them to hopefully sign Mirotic and maybe a big level FA this summer (pending a Boozer amnesty, of course).  I like the idea of getting a pick or two in this year’s 2nd round and then a future pick (might even be able to do a 2nd this year and a future 1st).  Here are a few names I’d like to throw out that are currently placed in the second round of this site’s mock that could fill a need for this team.  Not all of them will eventually fall to the second round, but worth talking about:  Stauskas and Hairston (shooters), Napier (Augustin/Nate Robinson role), McAdoo and Chris Walker (potential), Bogdanovic and Antetokounmpo (fairly unknowns with potential), and Jordan Bachynski for shot blocking.  Lots of fun names there!  Not to mention some late first rounders like Payne, Cauley-Stein, Capela, Young and Harrell.  If one of them slid, that’d be great!

[Scott42444Participant]

 I think that it all boils down to their draft board.  They have a very tight salary cap situation, especially since they are going to be aggressive in either the 2014 free agent class or the 2015 free agent class.  But the Bulls have been able to find some success with late 1st Rounders.  Taj, Butler, Snell, Mirotic (Teague was a miss, but that will happen sometimes) are good examples.  They also have a coach that doesn’t like to play rookies.  But, if they feel like they have a few guys that they have pegged as "their guys" and they are no longer on the board they either trade down or they draft a European stash (or even better, a future 1st).  

I think that the Bulls could pull some decent contributors, who will be under rookie salary control, for a few years.  The reason they wanted Teague out of there is because he wasn’t able to contribute.  If he was part of the rotation, they NEVER would have gotten rid of him.  He made such a low salary and had 2 years left on it.  That is the #1 reason why nobody will trade draft picks.  Non-Starters get paid like starters.  That’s how teams get stuck in salary cap Hell.  They get stuck with a guy who gets paid starter or all-star money but don’t crack a rotation.  When they are making 20th pick money, it’s easier to stomach.

 

[Scott42444Participant]

 Sorry, I forgot to add something.  Yes, 2nd rounders don’t have guaranteed salaries.  The problem is that if they DO find a contributor that is a 2nd rounder they very well could have to give him MORE money SOONER because he isn’t locked into that 3 + 1 salary structure.  I think it would make more sense just to trade out of the draft entirely.  But you are 100% correct.  If the Bulls take an Eric Murphy type of guy who won’t leave the bench ever, they have an advantage by saving a couple hundred thousand against the cap.  All veterans and undrafter rookies count $600,000 against the cap (regardless of their real salary, the NBA actually subsidizes the cost).  2nd rounders can actually make $400,000 and count against the cap $400,000.  I just think the Bulls need to take advantage of a deep draft if they think they have the ability to grab someone they think can crack Thibs’s rotation.

Or, they could trade UP and pay only one guy who will definitely play some quality minutes and they will have a better asset than 2 guys who might not be as good.  It would be a miracle to see the Bulls trade up but it’s happened before.

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

 Sorry, I forgot to add something.  Yes, 2nd rounders don’t have guaranteed salaries.  The problem is that if they DO find a contributor that is a 2nd rounder they very well could have to give him MORE money SOONER because he isn’t locked into that 3 + 1 salary structure.  I think it would make more sense just to trade out of the draft entirely.  But you are 100% correct.  If the Bulls take an Eric Murphy type of guy who won’t leave the bench ever, they have an advantage by saving a couple hundred thousand against the cap.  All veterans and undrafter rookies count $600,000 against the cap (regardless of their real salary, the NBA actually subsidizes the cost).  2nd rounders can actually make $400,000 and count against the cap $400,000.  I just think the Bulls need to take advantage of a deep draft if they think they have the ability to grab someone they think can crack Thibs’s rotation.

Or, they could trade UP and pay only one guy who will definitely play some quality minutes and they will have a better asset than 2 guys who might not be as good.  It would be a miracle to see the Bulls trade up but it’s happened before.

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

 I think that it all boils down to their draft board.  They have a very tight salary cap situation, especially since they are going to be aggressive in either the 2014 free agent class or the 2015 free agent class.  But the Bulls have been able to find some success with late 1st Rounders.  Taj, Butler, Snell, Mirotic (Teague was a miss, but that will happen sometimes) are good examples.  They also have a coach that doesn’t like to play rookies.  But, if they feel like they have a few guys that they have pegged as "their guys" and they are no longer on the board they either trade down or they draft a European stash (or even better, a future 1st).  

I think that the Bulls could pull some decent contributors, who will be under rookie salary control, for a few years.  The reason they wanted Teague out of there is because he wasn’t able to contribute.  If he was part of the rotation, they NEVER would have gotten rid of him.  He made such a low salary and had 2 years left on it.  That is the #1 reason why nobody will trade draft picks.  Non-Starters get paid like starters.  That’s how teams get stuck in salary cap Hell.  They get stuck with a guy who gets paid starter or all-star money but don’t crack a rotation.  When they are making 20th pick money, it’s easier to stomach.

 

[druneave3Participant]

 Yes first rounders are guaranteed but it is also a cheap roster spot for several years. If they hit with a second rounder that contract could possibly rise dramatically after the first year anyways. With this draft talent I most certainly don’t want them to trade down. 

They will most likely receive the Bobcats pick as well so they should have 2 picks in the top 20. I think you are asking the completely wrong question and that they should be looking into moving those to get into the top 10. I doubt any GM would trade a top pick in this draft but I think this path might get you closer to a championship than banking on free agency, in Chicago, and 2nd round picks. 

 

[druneave3Participant]

 Yes first rounders are guaranteed but it is also a cheap roster spot for several years. If they hit with a second rounder that contract could possibly rise dramatically after the first year anyways. With this draft talent I most certainly don’t want them to trade down. 

They will most likely receive the Bobcats pick as well so they should have 2 picks in the top 20. I think you are asking the completely wrong question and that they should be looking into moving those to get into the top 10. I doubt any GM would trade a top pick in this draft but I think this path might get you closer to a championship than banking on free agency, in Chicago, and 2nd round picks. 

 

[burgessfourParticipant]

Philly is so short on good NBA players that trading 3 2nds for a mid-first may not even work for them. Don’t get me wrong, under normal circumstances it’s a good deal. But Philly has MCW, Thad (who may get moved draft night) and Noel (who quite frankly we don’t know really what we have there). Add in a top 5 pick this June, and probably (but not definitely) the
N.O. pick, and that’s really it. They need more chances (picks) of getting lucky in the draft.

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

 You forgot tony wroten. 

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

 You forgot tony wroten. 

[burgessfourParticipant]

Philly is so short on good NBA players that trading 3 2nds for a mid-first may not even work for them. Don’t get me wrong, under normal circumstances it’s a good deal. But Philly has MCW, Thad (who may get moved draft night) and Noel (who quite frankly we don’t know really what we have there). Add in a top 5 pick this June, and probably (but not definitely) the
N.O. pick, and that’s really it. They need more chances (picks) of getting lucky in the draft.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Trading down works a lot better in football than it does in basketball.  In football, you can find great players at any point in the draft.  In basketball, rarely do you see a second rounder establish himself as a quality player.  I’d say maybe on average 2 guys a year from the 2nd round become contributors.

 

I wouldn’t trade down.  If healthy, they’re a team that can compete now.  Especially if Mirotic comes over next year.  He seems legit, and could really give the Bulls offense a boost.  I’d rather the Bulls just stay put and draft the best player available.

 

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 Trading down works a lot better in football than it does in basketball.  In football, you can find great players at any point in the draft.  In basketball, rarely do you see a second rounder establish himself as a quality player.  I’d say maybe on average 2 guys a year from the 2nd round become contributors.

 

I wouldn’t trade down.  If healthy, they’re a team that can compete now.  Especially if Mirotic comes over next year.  He seems legit, and could really give the Bulls offense a boost.  I’d rather the Bulls just stay put and draft the best player available.

 

 

[jonus grumbyParticipant]

No I don’t think it is a worthwhile trade. The Bulls for years have refused to trade the Bobcats pick for talent when that was brought up in discussion earlier. To just trade that for a couple second round picks now would be nonsense in my opinion. A move like this would only be for salary cap reasons which I don’t think would be wise. The Bulls do not need multiple young players at this time. They have plenty of youth. Butler, Snell and Gibson are three young players if they add 1 to the mix that is plenty. I realize they have 2 first round picks that is why they should trade their 2 picks for 1 first round pick even if they only move up a couple of spots to get the player that they want. Talent wins in the NBA and your changes of getting talent are better the higher you pick. As mentioned earlier in the NFL there is merit to trading down and getting more picks because they use their 53 man roster for the most part (besides the backup QB). In the NBA when the playoffs arrive you get down to an 8 man rotation seeing the majority of the court time for the most part. The idea is to get upper level talent.

I personally would not mind seeing the Bulls go after a higher priced player this off season but outside of Love or Melo I don’t see any reason to pay up for talent. I don’t want them to over pay just to bring someone in like they did with Boozer.

Bulls management has said after they traded Deng that they have the flexibility to be active if the opportunity presents itself this offseason. So lets see if they can do what is needed.

I would not mind seeing them trade for a future #1 but trading into the 2nd would not be beneficial to me.

[jonus grumbyParticipant]

No I don’t think it is a worthwhile trade. The Bulls for years have refused to trade the Bobcats pick for talent when that was brought up in discussion earlier. To just trade that for a couple second round picks now would be nonsense in my opinion. A move like this would only be for salary cap reasons which I don’t think would be wise. The Bulls do not need multiple young players at this time. They have plenty of youth. Butler, Snell and Gibson are three young players if they add 1 to the mix that is plenty. I realize they have 2 first round picks that is why they should trade their 2 picks for 1 first round pick even if they only move up a couple of spots to get the player that they want. Talent wins in the NBA and your changes of getting talent are better the higher you pick. As mentioned earlier in the NFL there is merit to trading down and getting more picks because they use their 53 man roster for the most part (besides the backup QB). In the NBA when the playoffs arrive you get down to an 8 man rotation seeing the majority of the court time for the most part. The idea is to get upper level talent.

I personally would not mind seeing the Bulls go after a higher priced player this off season but outside of Love or Melo I don’t see any reason to pay up for talent. I don’t want them to over pay just to bring someone in like they did with Boozer.

Bulls management has said after they traded Deng that they have the flexibility to be active if the opportunity presents itself this offseason. So lets see if they can do what is needed.

I would not mind seeing them trade for a future #1 but trading into the 2nd would not be beneficial to me.

[JoeWolf1]

 I really like the idea of Jordan Clarkson playing for the Bulls. I think there is some good talent in the range Chicago will have a draft pick and as a Bulls fan, I think Clarkson could be a good piece going forward. Hinrich and Augustin are not long term answers, but I always thought Clarkson could both be used next to Rose, or if his career is over, he could be a guy who could play point as well. He’s also a little older, so unlike Teague, he’s more capable of helping them out off the bat.

[JoeWolf1]

 I really like the idea of Jordan Clarkson playing for the Bulls. I think there is some good talent in the range Chicago will have a draft pick and as a Bulls fan, I think Clarkson could be a good piece going forward. Hinrich and Augustin are not long term answers, but I always thought Clarkson could both be used next to Rose, or if his career is over, he could be a guy who could play point as well. He’s also a little older, so unlike Teague, he’s more capable of helping them out off the bat.

[burgessfourParticipant]

I thought about Wroten but I struggle to see him as a top 8-9 rotation guy on a really good team.

[burgessfourParticipant]

I thought about Wroten but I struggle to see him as a top 8-9 rotation guy on a really good team.

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