Let Len Elmore tell it college players should not be able to go pro until they are Seniors. With that being said, since Seniors have the upper hand of having college DEGREES to fall back on according to Mr. Elmore these guys should not be hurting at all.........................
- Jimmer Fredette
- Nolan Smith
- Kenneth Faried
- Marshon Brooks
- JaJuan Johnson
- Norris Cole
- Jimmy Butler
- Justin Harper
- Kyle Singler
- Chandler Parsons
- Jon Leuer
- Charles Jenkins
- Josh Harrellson
- Andrew Goudelock
- Keith Benson
- Lavoy Allen
- Jon Diebler
- Vernon Macklin
- E'twaun Moore
Elmore has ALWAYS been against HS/underclassmen prospects to go One & Done or leave early period for the matter, but with the lockout taking its toll, it really shows that it does not matter when you come out. All the guys I listed above who have college DEGREES, are being effected the same way as guys who don't have one.
The point I am trying to bring up, is that this Lockout issue is making a case more & more to why guys need to strike while the iron is hot in college. They mines well consider killing the age limit restriction after they sit back & see how Seniors are even being effected.
Since Elmore has always said "I don't know what kind of job a young man can get with a HS diploma" I don't value nothing he says! If it's the case that you can't do nothing with a HS diploma why is it those college Seniors above are still SCRAMBLING for work. It really goes both ways, diploma no diploma, degree no degree, if there is no work, there is no work.
To that I close this with a F*CK the Len Elmore Theory!
If Singler had come out last year he would have been picked higher and signed an NBA contract worth more than college grads earn in a
I think the NBA needs more fundamentally-sound rookies so it might help them to stay longer, but the return on an NBA lottery contract is
greater than it is on a college degree.
I think this whole it's about the money is something that is not only ruining sports but our whole society.
Money is not everything in life. Many people that have earned huge sums of money are in terrible shape emotionally and destroy themselves not to mention losing that money in doing so. That list is long in sports and the entertainment business. Not everybody will turn into Charlie Sheen or fill in the blank NBA star who is broke now after making 100 million dollars. But nothing can take that degree away from you.
For instance a former movie star changed course and now is a history professor. I'm sure everybody saw the movie Robo Cop, Peter Weller is now a college History professor.
I have a college degree and work in a liquor store. FML.
It’s not as if these players are majoring in mechanical engineering or astro-physics. There is no reason why a company looking to hire a college graduate would want someone who would leave after 3-9 months unless they create the position for them to draw attention to their company. This is probably the worst argument I have heard for keeping players in college.
Couldn't have expressed my view on Len Elmore even better!
Who's arguement are you referring to?
I am saying that there is no benefit to having a college degree during the lockout for these players, and that Elmore is wrong in saying that they can just simply go anywhere and get a descent job just because they graduated college.
Well you have the same views as me.
I believe Kemba Walker graduated too. He was a junior but a senior academically. People forget about that. Why would he go back to school when he already graduated? He is a really smart kid so he was a year ahead in his studies.
The point I am trying to bring up is that a college degree ain't &$#%#&@!! In a couple years it will be equivalent to a HS diploma. What do you say to a guy such as my closest friend who went to COLLEGE for 5 years & has a DEGREE, but gets denied for multiple positions, because he is OVER QUALIFIED?
You forgot Kemba on the list, he graduated and read his first book.
In this economy even with a degree its hard to get a good job. And with there degres i'm willing to bet most of them would have to go back to school and get a master's in order to work in that field.
The first round guys shouldn't be hurting at all. A nice 50k loan from a agent can hold them over for a year easily
Second round guys can go play in Mexico or europe for at least 5k a week
I would like to hear from Mikey V on this matter since he is very knowledgeable.
I think you can send a direct email to people on here
Len Elmore is a very educated man. And his personal vision of what it takes to be a success in life is based on a college education. I agree with him,but there are exceptions to everything. Being a pro athelete is dream many have and only a chosen few reach that it. Len understands that many who are good enough to play pro ball may never get there shot, so he is all for those who graduate.
I feel its bs that at 18 you can vote,serve your country in the armed forces,work full time, and if you violate be tried and penalized as an adult. Yet you can't play in the NBA. If you don't get picked so be it,that should be that person's right to make that decision, not be made to go to school for half the year and waste a scholarship.
So I understand where he is coming from,but making decisions is a part of life's education
He does not have a listed email address.
Like I have stated before I value nothing he says..........Every post I have made in this thread is a legitimate reason to back that up.
Memphis, your grammar is a reason that people should indeed invest in as much education as possible, but that is besides the point. You do not speak ebonics as much as you just straight up have a hard time making a point or using proper words. "They mines well consider killing the age restriction....."? Mines well? Might as well is probably what you are saying, but again, let me get to the topic of discussion.
Len Elmore is a player from a different time, and he has a point! How doesn't he? It is always great for people to have a diploma to fall back on, though I feel that as an athlete, it is usually not an entirely huge obstacle to get one as people seem to make it. There are programs for athletes to get there degrees, and they usually make money to the point where they have a nice head start and go to college. Yes, it might be annoying that he harps on underclassmen leaving and such, but he saw the direct result of how much a degree helped. Even if these guys leave early, there ultimate goal should be too get a degree. There are a lot of stories about athletes not being too brilliant with money. Getting a degree never hurts, even if it may seem completely unnecessary to one who views these players pay cheques.
One thing I do think college brings though, for many of these kids, is the natural maturity one should gain with the aging process. Odds are, you are going to be a better basketball player at 22-23 than you are at 18-19, barring injury. Kyle Singler is better now than he was a year ago, just has a different perception of where he was being drafted. So, the longer you spend in college, I think you will likely be more physically and mentally mature to make an NBA impact. College does not make you better than playing against NBA competition, it does not give you the upper hand, but it is a grounds to mature and develop to become ready to make basketball your job.
I usually try to think from the mindset of a basketball player, and in doing that, I agree that there is very little reason for an age limit. Players who jumped from the NBA to HS were more often drafted to LATE rather than too early, and the best ones were actually making a fairly immediate impact. However, from the view of the GM's and owners, I see that even having the ONE year of a player removed from HS, most players become a lot more physically ready. I mean, even look at the history of HS players who went straight to the league. Their improvement from first to second year was MASSIVE (with the exception being Darius Miles, who was the same for about 4 years). So, as these are the people investing money into these players, having them go to college or a post prep year is a much better return on investment. Plus, from the fans perspective, I think it is awesome to see these guys in college and do better as rookies.
As far as you saying that everyone is in the same boat during the lockout, that seems like kind of a load. These guys are much more likely to do more during the lockout, they can apply for jobs, go to grad school and I think that a majority of those listed have a better chance of getting a lucrative international pro contract than the underclassmen. Plus, if this thing does go on, they will have an easier time getting jobs. These guys did nothing bad by staying in school, not to mention they probably have nice job connections. Not to mention, that while I do not think these guys should be spending a lot of money, they are already professionals, like everyone else who declared and stayed in the draft, they can get money from endorsements and also salary advances.
I was a college grad not too long ago, and times were tough, they still are. But, they are usually tough due to all the education and experience needed to get them. I still see no problem with getting your education, and while I agree that for certain players it is better to "strike while the iron is hot", for certain players, usually the ones that stay for 4 years, it is a must too have a degree too fall back on. Jimmer would more than likely be in the same place, if not drafted later, last year. Kyle may have lost some money, but nothing incredibly considerable. Still, do you think that these guys are maybe not a little more mentally prepared for what lies ahead? Are these guys not more likely to get jobs, while many of these other players by the way are probably taking courses at school?
Man, Len Elmore may sound ignorant at times talking about guys turning down millions of dollars to go back to school and get an education they could afford with their first pay check, but saying that having a college degree does not matter is ignorant as all hell. There are jobs out there for these guys with a diploma, and they are not exactly effing broke. Do not feel too sorry for the recent draftees, they have agents that give them money. They may have to pay it back, with interest, but they will have the ability too. Plus, 7 guys were taken in the first round, but every second round guy should be looking at Europe. They will make money and be fine.
So, too compare these guys, who have just been drafted by NBA teams, more than likely signed with a shoe sponsor and have the ability to make money doing advertisements or possibly playing basketball for money in the mean time, not to mention having some nice connections for employment in the mean times, they are not in the same categories as my homie working in the liquor store. I do not exactly know how that comparison would work. If you are not good enough to play pro sports, than getting a job is hard, but for these guys, there is no work in one outlet. It is more of an inconvenience than anything the average college grad has too go through. Perspective people, some of you REALLY need it.
First off I would like to say thank you, for taking the time out to give your personal opinion, on the matter.
"You do not speak ebonics as much as you just straight up have a hard time making a point or using proper words"
Not really understanding where you were going with that, but I never once said I was the most well spoken person around. I do not intentionally try to bring ebonics to the forum. I may agree......I should have been in a college classroom, but my life has never been on the narrow path to head in that direction. I have been sidetracked along the way, but I have TRIED to make the most of my educational opportunities as of late now that I am 24. Growing up I never visioned myself walking through a college classroom, unless it was through an ATHLETIC scholarship, which may have came but went down the drain do to my off the field problems.
"Len Elmore is a player from a different time, and he has a point! How doesn't he? It is always great for people to have a diploma to fall back on, though I feel that as an athlete, it is usually not an entirely huge obstacle to get one as people seem to make it."
Never once I said he does not have a point. I just don't agree with his views, but don't I have a point also?
"Even if these guys leave early, there ultimate goal should be too get a degree."
I agree again, but you must strike while the iron is hot, just like you can risk a injury in the pro's you also can risk it in college. Again like you mentioned above you can ALWAYS go back to get your degree & that's only if you choose to do so.
"As far as you saying that everyone is in the same boat during the lockout, that seems like kind of a load. These guys are much more likely to do more during the lockout, they can apply for jobs, go to grad school and I think that a majority of those listed have a better chance of getting a lucrative international pro contract than the underclassmen."
Again like I have stated in one of my posts, it really goes both ways. Diploma no diploma, degree no degree, if there is no work, there is no work. In a couple years it will be equivalent to a HS diploma. What do you say to a guy such as my closest friend who went to COLLEGE for 5 years & has a DEGREE, but gets denied for multiple positions, because he is OVER QUALIFIED? Just because you are a prospect, also does not mean you will have the luxury of an endorsement deal. As of now I have not heard or seen anything on rookies with deals "yet".
"Man, Len Elmore may sound ignorant at times talking about guys turning down millions of dollars to go back to school and get an education they could afford with their first pay check, but saying that having a college degree does not matter is ignorant as all hell"
NEVER once said that!
After reading my post? My point is, your friend and these players are in different situations! Plus, saying in a couple years it is equivalent to an HS degree? WHAT? You learn more through college than just your classes, and if it does not let you achieve your ultimate goal of maybe obtaining a better job, the odds are that not going to college probably would not be much better.
Also, I again was not as much targeting the rest of the post at you, but you saying "there is no work, there is no work", in context to these players, is not at all true. There is work, just not in the NBA. I feel for your friend, I have had friends in the exact same boat, man. But, if they had been drafted into the NBA, they would still have ways to make money during a lockout. Would they be making NBA money? No! But they could still make money playing basketball, and get money in accordance to the NBA eventually coming back.
Dude, also, not everyone has an "endorsement deal". But, I think every NBA player, generally, gets free things from athletic apparel companies. So, while Kyle Singler may not be rocking the "Air Singler" anytime soon, he is still getting free gear, and possibly even money, for wearing Nike apparel. You do not hear about every deal a player signs or makes, but these guys are not broke! They can get loans based on the fact that they have an NBA contract they will be signing eventually as collateral. Not only that, BUT THEY CAN STILL GET JOBS! They have not signed contracts, and if they choose to wait things out by not playing in Europe, than that is there choice, but I do not think they are starving in the mean time.
Now, lets say the lockout lasts for over a year, and these guys do not want to play overseas and want to wait it out. Lets say they just want to make money in the mean time. Who do you think has the easier time getting a job? Yep, the guys that graduated college. Lets say your knee goes out during a summer league game, and you will never play again? Rather be the one with a degree than without one. See, you strike while the iron is hot IF you are guaranteed an NBA spot. Most of the guys that do, would be NBA players otherwise. But, who would you rather be, Jereme Richmond or Ben Hansbrough? Did Scotty Hopson graduate? Well, guessing he should have.
As I said, these guys have connections and I have a feeling it might be easier for them to get jobs than others. College athletes get some pretty sweet advantages, tutoring sessions and sometimes even job opportunities. It pays to be a pro athlete, or even athletic in general. However, what you basically have been doing is comparing these guys too your friend, and I do not think that comparison is valid in these circumstances. I think you are looking for a reason to be upset at Len Elmore by using your friends situation as a comparison to his situation, and a college diploma leading to a somewhat disappointing situation without work. Well, not the same, and the guys with diplomas are indeed more prepared to handle the lockout.
So, I think the guys with degrees probably are not hurting as much, but if you are going by them making NBA salaries, EVERYONE is hurting. But, I think you are making too much of what this guy said, and that using it as a way to justify what is happening to your friend is quite off base. The economy has effected a lot of college graduates, and it has even effected sports to an extent, but I still think there is a relatively strong market for these guys to pull in over 50 grand, lock out or not, which is the ultimate barrier a college grad would want to cross. So while your friend is looking for a job to support himself, maybe pay off his college loans and make a living, these guys have had college paid for, come out with a degree and have a skill set that could land them incredibly lucrative jobs playing basketball or give them a step up if they entered the job market. They may not be buying Escalades, but they are not even close to the same situation as people like your friend. What Len Elmore said has no relevance to your friend, and the connection you made I believe was taken way out of context.
As far as making a point and using proper words to do so, I would say maybe take more time to proof read your post. I am guessing even you go back sometimes and use different words to understand exactly what you were trying to say. It would make them exponentially better and get much better response. Thinking about things before you say them is the underlying theory. So, you "mines well" give it a try? All the best too your friend, I think things facing recent college grads totally suck, I went through a lot of the same things and it was tough to get a job. I worked retail for quite a while to gain experience, and there is nothing worse than someone being "over qualified" for a job. Hopefully he gets his foot in the door somewhere and that leads to something else.
I am sorry if I offended you, was not my intention, but I felt like you really took this out of context and missed some things. I think that you should not be angry or bitter at what Len Elmore said, as in accordance to THESE people, he is probably right. But, they are not the same as your friend, beyond all being human beings on planet earth. I apologize, grammar and taking things out of context are pet peeves of mine, and sometimes I find that you do use slang just for the sake of using slang. Still, if you do not know how to spell a word or maybe feel it is out of context, look it up. I am not saying you have to do it all the time, but it is a great way to educate yourself without being in a class room. I do it all the time, and I think it is better than using the wrong word, except having it be off of the cuff. We have the internet to help give our arguments or posts more validity. Why not use it to learn more about certain things, as far as grammar is concerned?
Agree with Memphis_Madness :)
This was brought to my attention earlier..........."What's the point of the 1 year rule when guys are wasting scholarships someone else can have. Let them come out of HS or MAKE them stay at least 3 years like the NFL. The NBA is doing no justice to a guy who only goes to college for a year, when his intention is not to learn or make the most of it. The 1 year rule is POINTLESS"
Except, I think the point is, it gets players one more year ready for the NBA. They are more prepared, and therefore teams do not have to spend a couple million, or more, on a player that is not ready to play at that level. When you look at HS players that were ready to make serious contributions since 1995, you look at Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James and Dwight Howard. Even they were at a serious level below where they would be after one more year of physical and mental readiness for the NBA. That one year matters, at least in getting the best possible return on investment.
It is true that the NFL has the 3 year rule, but that rule is for a reason. The NFL realizes that if you drafted a player after there freshman year, or straight out of HS, this player would spend his first few years getting destroyed, and sitting on the bench making millions. In football, they realize that you need to be physically developed to come in and make an impact. Look at a football from year 1 to year 3, and you see WORLDS of difference. This may be the same with basketball players, but less so. It has been proven that even ONE more year of college has made players that much more ready to compete right away. Do not believe me? Look at the first year statistics of HS players compared to players that have played even one year of college. World of difference.
Also, while I realize the "one and done" rule does indeed take scholarships away from possible worthy student athletes, people act like it is some epidemic. Know how many were in the draft this year? 7. 5 were first round picks in Kyrie Irving, Enes Kanter (if you count him as one), Tristan Thompson, Tobias Harris and Cory Joseph. 1 a second rounder in Josh Selby and one undrafted in Jereme Richmond. In 2010, there were 10, 2009 had 5, 2008 a whopping 14 and 2007 had 9. The reason I give these numbers? I do not think that this is exactly an epidemic proportion of scholarships "wasted". Even with 3 years, not all of these players graduate. Does a freshman not graduating take away from your total more than a junior? Don't think so. Plus, every single one and done player was a year more prepared for immediate contribution. So, this is a reason why the "one and done" rule might not be "POINTLESS". It has a point. It might not be fair, but there is a point.
Marshon Brooks does not have his degree, he dropped out to train for the NBA draft. He said he plans to come back and finish though.
Talent wise it makes no sense because there are plenty of guys who come out of college and don't produce or produce less then the kid who came straight out of H.S. Makes sense from the team prospective because by the time a player is able to really contribute they are damn near a free agent and go else where which does not benifit the team that got him to that point.
The Real problem is the team. Let them come out of H.S and if you don't wanna deal with them not producing early then don't draft them, let some other team draft them. Seems like every problem is the team having to save themselves from themselves