[cavairo7Participant]

 So I’ve been thinking about the Cleveland Cavaliers starting lineup for this season since they added Dwyane Wade. Here are the two different starting lineups I have for the team.

PG: Derrick Rose

SG: J.R. Smith

SF: Lebron James

PF: Kevin Love

C: Tristan Thompson

6th Man: Dwyane Wade

To start the season, it would be best to have Wade come off of the bench since D-Rose isn’t a great outside shooter.  If not, it will be the same as the Bulls backcourt that lacked three point shooting.  Wade shot 31% from 3pt range and Rose shot 21.7% from beyond the arch. Smith shot 35%, dealing with a major injury that kept him to playing for only half of the season in 2016-2017.  J.R.’s 3pt percentage increased to 50% in the playoffs.  By having Smith in the lineup, the Cavs have two good outside shooters, and LeBron who shot 36% from three last season.

PG: Isaiah Thomas

SG: Dwyane Wade

SF: LeBron James

PF: Kevin Love

C: Tristan Thompson

6th Man: J.R. Smith/Jae Crowder

When Isaiah returns to full health (or close to it), he gives the CAVS another outside weapon, allowing for Wade to come into the starting lineup.  By that time, D-Rose and J.R. Smith should have developed good chemistry with one another. having played together for three months, making the bench unit stronger as a result. Wade and Thomas will have the rest of the season to get acclaimated with each other and to playing starters minutes, just in time for a postseason run.  J.R. is also used to playing off the bench in a 6th man role, having done that with the Nuggets and Knicks for the majority of his career.  

Hopefully Coach Lue will play it out this way. I think this will make the team better in the long run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 The line up will be deep so it will be interesting to see how minutes are shared around, they have the option to go small ball if needed and could easily go :-

Thomas, Wade, Crowder, LBJ, K-Love for example. LBJ, Thomas and K-Love can all reduce their minutes directly or indirectly as Crowder can play starters minutes either as starter or as main 6th man – think Iggy at GSW. D.Rose, Shump, J.R Smith, Korver, Jefferson and Frye will all be in rotation and Thompson will play major frontcourt minutes.

The 12 guys I’ve mentioned above could be a logical play off roster, some guys won’t play every night especially veterans like Korver and Jefferson. But they can easily step up if LBJ is given the odd game off.

I was thinking with Wade and Rose neither great 3 point shooters then they can be paired with one of Korver and Smith respectively to give all units a legit shooter.

 

 

 

 

[nick5354Participant]

A lot depends on Roses’ health. If he goes down a lot then starting IT means the bench really lacks that PG which was a major issue for them – Deron Williams was very dissapointing, Shump should be nowhere near the PG position, and Felder is very unproven (and basically the same player as IT so if IT is expoited in a match up they do not have the option to switch in the bigger Rose at the PG position. Also, I’m not even going to start on Calderon I’m very skeptical haha

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Crowder won’t start but he is going to play at least 28 mins a game. I think you’ll see a lot of small ball lineups with love at center (or even lebron in some cases). 

I don’t think rose fits well at all with this team. He is the type of player that is basically useless without the ball in his hands. I expect him to be the starter opening night but it wouldn’t surprise me if he was out of the rotation entirely come playoff time. It’s just hard for me to see what his role would be with lebron, it, and wade all healthy and handling pretty much all the playmaking responsibility.

I think wade should probably approach this season with the expectation of being the sixth man. Smith’s shooting (although streaky) is valuable and he is better defender than wade at this stage. I just think he compliments their starters better. Wade can take over as their primary facilitator in the second unit. They should try to limit his mins during the season. His experience can still be valuable in the playoffs provided he is fresh. He can’t go in expecting it to be like Miami lebron/wade again. He definitely will not have that type of role on this team.

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

it’s always best to surround LeBron with shooters. that means maximizing his minutes with IT and Smith.

Rose and Wade make a horrible shooting combo off the bench, but the frontcourt guys on the bench (Crowder, Korver, Jefferson, Frye) could make it a decent shooting unit overall.

 

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

The Cavs biggest dropoff from their championship season to last season was their defense, I really don’t like what the Cavs did to address that, adding Wade (one of the worst defensive SGs in the league) and Thomas (perhaps the worst defensive PG in the league) really won’t help. The Cavs match up well against GSW on offense, but the difference is that the Durant, Green, and Thompson are two-way players, while Cleveland is full of players who can’t play a lick of defense. 

Your projected line up has 4 players (Wade, Thomas, Love, LeBron) who don’t play D anymore. LeBron still does for short periods of time, but at this stage in his career he doesn’t have the stamina to play both sides consistently, he mostly stands around on defense looking for a steal and doesn’t even bother chasing his man around. Crowder is a two-way player, so I hope they play him over Wade, but still I don’t see a team with such horrible team defense winning it all. 

[HitsterParticipant]

Crowder will do a lot of the intangibles regardless of where they use him and with LBJ on court the need for a creative PG isn’t there. I agree that having good shooters alongside LBJ makes sense.

We don’t know if any promises have been made as regards who starts – some big names will come off the bench and may not see huge minutes but Lue will have a load of options and can use guys in short sharp bursts.

We all talk about D-Rose losing that yard but playing reduced minutes could allow him to go all out when on court and the same with D-Wade. They cannot play at their former elite level for 30mph plus per night so instead of giving a steady 25 to 30mpg they give an all out 15mpg.

With their depth players can be sat so if knees swell up etc then you don’t suit that guy up for next game. Guys like Jefferson and Korver can then step in and you know exactly what they will give you.

[90sNYKParticipant]

Rose/IT

Smith/Wade

Lebron

Love

Thompson

I would definitely bring Wade off the bench while Rose starts at PG. Once IT returns its easier to have Wade in the starting 5.

Either way I think Cleveland has a 2nd unit that could probably beat the lottery teams.

Rose

Smith

Crowder

Green 

Frye

If Rose were to go down they have Shump and Calderon to fall back on. 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 All I know is I feel like Crowder absolutely must be a starter because his defense and floor spacing is even better then Smiths plus of his hustle.

 

I think I would start the season small with Rose, Smith, Crowder, Bron and Love starting.  All of them can shoot 3 but Rose.  Then Wade comes off the bench with floor spacers like Korver and Frye.

 

I also feel like Thompson is such a waste of cap space and roster spot.  Cavs still need a sgot blocker they should trade Tristan to Europe for Khem Birch or Epke Udoh.  Kidding kinda.

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Wades gonna start and I dont even know why this is being disputed. 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Because Wade also cant play 30 mpg or even 70 games this year.  So why plan to start a guy you already have to plan to rest?

[HitsterParticipant]

 Wade is certainly the best SG on their roster and can slide to SF if needed. I agree he will likely start.

I like Crowder starting at SF and LBJ at point forward/PF but I don’t think Wade and Rose are ideal starting together due to their lack of 3 point range. So if Wade starts I think Rose has to come from bench and vice versa. With IT being out this complicates things as could you start Smith and Wade or Smith and Rose in the backcourt to give you one shooter.

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

Wade may be the best SG on the roster, but I don’t know if he’s the most useful player to man that position for them. He’s basically a mini-LeBron. In Miami he was maybe 70 or 80 percent as good as LeBron, so they could kind of alternate doing their thing. But he’s nowhere near as good as LeBron anymore, and he’s also a worse offensive player than IT now.

I’m not saying he’s finished as a good player — I’m sure he would kill any Cavs wing player other than LeBron at one-on-one., It’s just that in game situations, I think what he brings to the table will often be less valuable than Korver’s touch, Shumpert’s defense, or J.R.’s combination of the two. 

I think I agree with Hitster that Wade is ideally a 15-20 minute guy, coming off the bench because his skills will be most needed when LeBron is resting. (If I were Lue I would try really hard to convince LeBron to limit himself to around 30 minutes a night this year, but I doubt LeBron would listen).

Of course this is all armchair coaching; Wade is a Hall of Famer and a winner who could reinvent himself and/or prove himself invaluable in all kinds of ways.

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Wonder if they go BIG.

LeBron starting at point.  JR Smith at the 2.  Jae Crowder at the 3 with Love and Thompson at the 4 and 5.

Isaiah Thomas: 6th man.

2nd unit: D Rose, D Wade, Kyle Korver, Frye, and Zizic.

Wow, that might actually work, even though it is pretty unorthodox. If you want Crowder to start there aren’t a whole lot of options.  And, he makes less sense coming off the bench.  

IT gives them an instant offense, high motor, emotional guy off the bench.  You can put IT in there for basically anybody.

The second unit has some slashing guard play with Korver and Frye being your outside shooters.

With that starting five, you basically go with LeBron-Love pick and rolls/pick and pops.  Crowder spots up.  TT does the dirty work.  JR Smith becomes your default third option.

Best part of this lineup is that you have two whole units.  So, when IT comes back, you can just plug him into either unit.  It won’t affect your starting team OR your backup unit that much.

Without IT, and with all that depth, not sure they need a real 6th man.  They might just go with platoon units, or go with a 6th man of the night depending on matchups and other things.

I forgot about Jeff Green… so maybe that moves Zizic down, if Frye and Green are your main two bigs off the bench.  So, maybe Green becomes the 6th man (until IT gets back).  Or, Channing Frye going in for either big.  Gives Cleveland an extra 3 point shooter.  Also allows you to go with the Green/Zizic big man combo on the second unit.

Wanna beat Golden State?  Run with them, but with more DEPTH.  And, with more SIZE, DEFENSE, and TOUGHNESS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 My interest is how to fit in Crowder most effectively – mix shooters like Korver with D-Wade and D-Rose and how the minutes are shared out when IT returns.

The temptation to use IT as a super 6th man must be tempting if they have got a good rotation going when he returns and it would make other teams have to adjust their 2nd units.

It will be interesting to see if Zizic sees much playing time at all as the frontcourt depth isn’t as insane as positions 1 to 3. At the moment I’d struggle to get him into the 12 man play off roster given teams often go with experience there and so Korver, Jefferson, Green and Frye would indirectly be prefered perhaps.

 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

On another note once the season starts it will be clear Rose is much better and will have a bigger impact on Cavs offense then Wade at this point.  

One thing that made Wade and Bron so dominant in Miami is Wades ability to cut off ball and finish at the rim.  Wade simply has no knees left to do that consistently anymore.  He had trouble exploding at the rim last year and stopped looking for cuts.  He got most of his points using exceptional footwork in the midrange hitting tough shots.

 

Rose however can still get to the rim when he wants and can still finish creatively once there.  I reckon Wade and Bron will teach him how to cut off ball which will lead to easier looks at the rim.

Cavs really only need Wade for the playoffs to make impact plays on defense.  Although he regressed last year playing man to man defense he still won them games making plays on defense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

According to new report on espn.com, Lue is leaning toward starting Crowder at 4 and Love at 5.

That does help with the logjam at wing positions.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Interesting idea to use Crowder at 4, they have LBJ at 3 so they get size advantage there and it may allow D-Wade to slide to 3 especially when IT returns. Korver and RJ will play around LBJ when required.

The point about D-Rose cutting to the rim when in tandem with LBJ is an excellent one. D-Rose may have lost that yard but playing reduced minutes may allow him to go all out and expand himself more athletically.

Also D-Rose playing with D-Wade, Korver, RJ gives him a great insight into how to extend his career longer term.

 

 

[thetrademachineryParticipant]

 Rose Wade Crowder Lebron Love simple as that.

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

If they stick with this Tristan Thompson shoots to the top of my 6th Man of the Year forecast.

I think bringing him off the bench is more about spacing on the first unit and going all-in on surrounding LeBron with shooters. But I think Thompson will still get around 30 minutes per night because he’s the only interior defender.

 

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