The case of Harrison Barnes
I know that everybody loves MKG. I know he has all these intangibles he is a winner blah, blah, blah. Hey I like the kid he is nice but I don't think he will be better than Barnes.What follows is my arguments why.
Lets back track to high school, who was the better player lets look at the tape
Now I think its pretty obvious who was the more rounded player. MKG was a good player but overall skill level Barnes has him beat. Jump shot is much more sound for Barnes going forward bigger better body. Barnes is a little over a year older so we will give him the body.
Lets go to college
Lets goto the tape again look at their best games in college to see NBA skills. I picked mixtape by same person they covered the same things. If you are a NBA GM which guy looks more ready to be player.
Now I will give MKG is better defender and if you want to say more aggressive rebounder. However if I am NBA GM Barnes shows me everything in need in SF and as NBA GM I am not silly enough to let a shooting slump in the tournament make me forget the body of work.
Harrison Barnes will be a better player than MKG he is already light years ahead of him without a strong handle. He may not be able to gaurd position 1-4 but he will be able to gaurd his own position which is the most important thing.
Yes MGK has great work ethic but that doesn't mean he will ever be a good shooter, ball handling is much easier thing to fix than a poor shooting, and its not only that he is poor shooter its that he has hitch in his shot. Hitches have a tendency to very hard to trained out of. Barnes is also noted for having a good work ethic.
Now I am not saying intagibles don't matter but if I have to choose between the 2, I pick Barnes. In other words if I am picking on potential I rather shoot for Joe Johnson/Rudy Gay type than a Gerald Wallace/Trevor Ariza.
I like Barnes a lot, but I'd give the slight edge to MKG. Barnes is a handle away from being a tremendous scorer, but MKG is a jump shot away from being a tremendous overall player. He just does more then Barnes does.
As recently as three weeks ago I still would've preferred Barnes. This doesn't happen to do with tournament performance, but the fact that Kentucky won the national title really says something to me about MKG. It wasn't "his" accomplishment but that really affirmed for me his potential as a winner. The fact that he might not be a stud in the pros doesn't bother me; at Kentucky he was the glue guy, and that's fine, cuz he'll be surrounded by even more talented guys at the next level.
Really, no prospect looks better than Barnes when he's knocking down catch and shoots. 6-8, clearly athletic (especially in his fluid motions more so than explosiveness), visibly good defender, just looks like an NBA wing.
But everything he does well, he does far too infrequently. Barnes is an above average defender but wings don't go top 10 because they're above average defenders. He's first and foremost a scorer, but he takes that role too lightly. He's mediocre at best taking it to the basket (handle improved a little but still inadequate given his skill level) and clearly has very little confidence in doing so. He's not especially agile when it comes to getting shots off...he's good at getting shots off but a lot of that is due to his size, Marshall's Elway-zippy passes, and his rhythm. To me he's more of a circumstantial scorer.
MKG, you know what you're getting on every possession, and with an improved jumper (easy, given his crazy drive to get better), it's almost impossible to tout Barnes higher. Had Barnes showed signs of becoming a future sure thing first option things would be different, but right now his scoring upside seems to be just higher than that of Luol Deng...maybe 19 points a night.
I like Barnes, I do, especially for a team like the Kings that could use his consistency, shooting, bball IQ and defense, but to me, MKG could be Scottie Pippen.
MKG is not just a jumpshot away, Barnes has a better offensive arsenal (post ups, two dribble pull ups, fade away, etc..). A jump shot doesn't make you instantly a better offensive player, offensive instincts and having a knack for scoring is something you can't really learn....Looking at the top 5 teams in the lotto with maybe the exception of maybe the Portland all the teams need scoring from the SF position
When did I say MKG with a jump shot would be a better scorer then Barnes? I'm saying with a jump shot he'd be a very good scorer because he's a good slasher and can finish at the rim and get to the line already. He already does everything else better then Barnes so that's why I'd take MKG.
When did I say MKG with a jump shot would be a better scorer then Barnes?
I never said you did what I meant was the offensive skills/awareness Barnes already has MKG doesn't have not saying he can't get them. But his jump shot is broke slashing in the nba is not as easy and teams with game plan and play off him....
100% TRUE... great topic, Banre is the obvious choice
Ok I will put up with comparison to current players but he is NO Scottie Pippen. I know just like everyone is looking for the next MJ they want next SP but he isn't even close.MKG guarded guys in college well. Thats playing prob against a NBA caliber player once every five games, and that is not an elite player either. The NBA is best of best. What MJ and SP plus Harper did won't be seen again. MJ and Pippen were prob the best 2 athletes in NBA who were lock down defenders plus they had Harper who was damn good too. MKG is no where near the athlete Pippen was.
People are in love with MKG for some reason, SMH, damn look at some game tape yo... Barnes has the better potential, MKG is a great defender but he needs a jump shot and ways to create off the dribble... Barnes can work on his handle
Barnes to me is better. MKG is good and everyone talks about his all around games, Barnes is an all around player too. He can rebound and defend maybe not as good as MKG but he does a good job. Average 5.2 rebs on a team where Zeller and Henson both average 10, and Bullock and McAdoo combined for another 10 respectfully. Defensive he's good at keeping his man infront of him and playing the passing lanes averaged 1 stl a game. However he does get caught on screens alot and isnt able to fully close out on his man. Whoever goes first is going to come down to what team is drafting.
Best case: Barnes = Paul Pierce MKG= Gerald Wallace
He is too passive and doesn't play with the intensity of MKG. MKG is tough, he plays hard the whole game, and is agressive and a finisher. He has everything but a jumpshot. A lot of players have been able to improve shooting a lot when they get to the NBA. It is a lot harder to gain passion and intensity than it is to improve your shooting. Barnes had a chance to show how good he was against Kansas and he didn't he is a poor mans joe johnson. Which is why MKG is the better prospect.
MKG.. Enough Said
Both players are good fits with any of the top five teams. What one player lacks, the other has. It's a matter of what you want and the team needs. In terms of an overall prospect and based on what I have seen from a performance standpoint this year I would go with MKG. If i want a player with big time scoring potential give me Barnes. By no means am I comparing Lebron amd Melo to MKG and Barnes but when Lebron and Melo both came in the league Lebron was the better overall prospect but Melo was the better scorer. I am a big time Tarheel fan and a big supporter of Barnes. I do think Roy Williams didn't utilize Barnes the way he should and alot of people didn't get to see the type of player Barnes is capable of being. Like I said in another post, Roy Williams coached Paul Pierce in college and a lot of people didn't expect Pierce to be the type of player he would become when he came out. If the Bobcats don't draft number one I wouldn't be surprised if they draft Barnes. They need a scorer and the Carolina connection with Jordan is another factor. They already had a player like MKG in Gerald Wallace before they traded him away. I don't think they would draft a similar player.
Just because Barnes dosent show his emotions or is the type of hustler MKG is doesnt mean he dont play hard with passion and intensity. And the Kansas game you have to take in the account the Marshall was out and it messed up the whole team flow, Also Henson was already hurt and then rolled his ankle and was limited, and Bullock had did something with his knee again so he wasnt at full strength. And all the pressure fell onto Barnes shoulders, if they didnt succeed it was going to be all his fault. He played a good the whole game until the final four minutes. So i dont think one game should define how his season went or his ability as a prospect at the next level.
MKG, easily. Better all-around player but Barnes' offensive arsenal is very vanilla.
MKG, TRoss, and BBeal are the top wings in this year's draft.
A jumpshot is the easiest skill to develop. We know plenty of guys who've learned how to shoot in the NBA (shit, look at Chris Duhon as Exhibit A.)
What really bothers me about Barnes is his fluctuating confidence. Now that may have to do with his shaky handle or whatever, but I just don't get the sense he believes he can go out there and just take guys one-on-one. It's as if there's a lack of mental toughness or something.
I think Barnes will be a solid NBA starter for many years, but he doesn't seem to have that go-to guy swagger.
MKG is virtually unstoppable on the break, and has the first step to take guys off the dribble. Add a jumpshot and he'll become a dangerous scorer.
Wow you didn't just say that the jump shot is easiest shot to aquire. If that was the case shooters wouldn't be at a permium. Its why a shooter has 15 year carreer even though it his only skill. that is why redick, novack, bonner, kapono, etc have stayed in the league even though they can't guard a stick or dribble around a pylon.
I can find you 50 guys who are great on the break. 49 will be out of the league in 3 years or less because they can't hit a jump shot. The NBA is not a fast break league during the regular season. By the playoff its set offence versus set offence. Shot making is the premium ask Lebron James. If you have ever seen lebron shoot in practice he is lights out and he struggles in playoffs. If you think shooting is the easiest skill you are just dead wrong. getting a ball to bounce up and down to your hand is easiest skill to aquire.
Barnes confidence didn't fluctuate he took every hard shot he never passed up the ball (cough,cough lebron). He didn't shy away even though he knew he is shot was off he still thought he could make it. Against Ohio he shot like crap too, but in OT he hit the 3 and drew 2 sets of foul shots driving to basket. That is mark of guy who has confidence. Everyone wants to take last shot when they are hot, real confidence is taking it when you not!
... is saying that they see Barnes as having a certain skill set, which they anticipate being able to translate into the NBA. That would be offense, particularly shot making.. While the other group sees something which they like in MKG (effort level, defensive intensity, locker room personality, intagible-osity) which they value greatly, and do not see in Barnes...I think a lot of this debate is being reduced to a) how much you like one player and b) how you value each of these qualities.. Personally, I think both sides make good points and using language such as better might not be appropriate because we do not know how they will play in the NBA...Safer might be a better word choice.
I agree that Barnes is a safer pick than MKG for one reason. His offense is at an high enough level right now so that he will be an above average offensive player when he gets in the nba... I feel like MKG's offense is going to be something like Landry Fields/courtney lee, aaron aflalo when he gets into the league. Granted the intangibles make you believe that if anyone could, MKG is going to improve, but you have no way to garuntee that. Whereas with Barnes you know that he might not become a dominant #1 scorer, but he will be an above average offensive player...
MKG I;d definitley take but if Charlotte has the pick, you know they're taking Barnes.
MKG I;d definitley take but if Charlotte has the pick, you know they're taking Barnes.
How many thumbs down would someone have received if they said Kevin Love would average 26/14 at some point in his career? Or, that Paul Milsap would become the go-to scorer for a borderline playoff team? Or, that . . .
What Barnes/MKG become is based on them, and neither player has a certain ceiling at this point. The guy w/superstar-level work habits will be the more likely player to become the superstar. Not many people w/Barnes/MKG talent can sustain the level of focus required to achieve that kind of excellence, especially while being paid millions.
I will say it's very VERY close between them, and we could be looking at a reincarnation of the Bird/Magic rivalry, although obviously on a smaller scale. But you've got two physically similar players who have different styles, are roughly the same age and are both going to enter the NBA at the same time. Can't wait to see this rivalry develop.
Your crazy or lack knowledge IMO cause Barnes is way better. Cant believe people really think this is close.
MKG wont score like that. I like the kid but come on. You have to watch NBA style play and compare skills.
I could easily see MKG coming in and scoring 14 a game. The spacing of the NBA game with his ability to get to the hoop will be a huge benefit.
I would easily take Gerald Wallace (mkg) over Marvin Williams (Barnes).
Barnes will never be a 22-5-5 6 time all star like joe johnson
its really close. I dont see how a person can clearly favor one over the other. Comparing MKG to Pip is a stretch because he is not as athletic or as long. He doesnt handle like that either. He is only compared to Pip because of all of the things he can do, but he is at best a very poor man's Pippen. He is not as athletic as Wallace either. He does compare favorable to Wallace though. I just like MKG because he is a winner, he is pure instinct. He doesnt think about the jumpshot, the assist, the rebound....he doesnt look at the box score....he just goes out and plays and lets the game come to him. He is probably the safest player you can pick in this years draft. Safer than Barnes, and yes, safer than Davis. MKG is bust-proof.
Barnes is underated as far as what he will do on the next level. He has to improve his handle, but I think he will. He doesnt have confidence issues, many times at UNC he struggled, but still took the last shot and hit it most of the time. He is an explosive scorer however, and that can come out of no where. When he gets in a rhythm, its hard to stop him. He was a bit too unselfish and passive at times, but I dont mind that. I think that will help him fit in chemistry wise because I dont think he is a guy who will avg over 22ppg unless its inside a run and gun type offense. His defense is going to be better than shown in college if he plays with the right team/coach. Barnes is going to be a good player, but he is a guy who I think you will see improvement year after year, like when Granger first came in the league.
When selected these two....I think it comes down to the team that is doing the selecting.
His j is falling. He does not have Rivers quickness off the dribble.
Barnes will be a lights-out scorer at the next level. Kidd-Gilchrist will be fine too, but will never be the instinctive scorer that Barnes is.
MKGcan beat guys off the dribble with strength.