Carmelo Anthony: By December 15- New York Will Be The Best Spot to deal if your Denver
Bill Simmons said this and it makes sense to me a little bit ( and my slight bias)
Carmelo Anthony is blocking any other trade because he wants to play with the Knicks. The Nets' deal was on the table, ready to happen and Melo did not look to sign the extension. By December 15, you can trade signed FA, the idea is this
New York recieve: Carmelo Anthony and Kenyon Martin
Denver recieve: Danillo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Raymond Felton, 3 million dollars cash and thier earliest 1st round pick.
Doing that, the Nuggets save 19 million and earn 3 million in the trade for a player they were most likely gonna leave. Then, you can move Billups (before or after this) and now you continue the rebuild.
Or Denver keeps Carmelo and sticks with him for 8 months.
What do you do?
I would trade Melo, you get a bunch of solid guys(except for Curry but you can just dump his contract it expires at the end of this season i believe), money and a first round pick, sure you give up your best player but it is better then not getting anything for him in return in FA, to me Melo is bound to leave Denver due to all the injuries his team gets (Nene and Martin) and his team is only getting older, if I was Denver I would just trade him.
Exactly. I'm not saying today that's a good deal but
You get a solid PG in Felton ( who only has 2 years, you can move him or trade him the next season. He's a exp)
Move Billups to Atlanta, Sacramento or Charlotte (all 3 need a leading PG and to me, Billups is still worth 7 wins)
Move J.R. Smith to Dallas or Chicago ( Both have good, not great shooting guard and I feel need a scorer at that position)
Boom. I just helped Denver rebuild.
The Bulls promptly traded away J.R. Smith when the received him two years ago in a trade. I believe it was because of his character issues and questions about effort. I highly doubt the Bulls want him back.
Alright...Take Chicago out and you can plug in a couple more teams.
I personally read the recent comments of Melo saying that he could possibly sign with Denver, and is it just me or is he being kind of a schmoe? I mean, we know that Chris Bosh and LeBron James did not get the best of reputations for their actions during free agency, and now they have reaped the consequences of being hated by legions of fans (not all, but a lot more than before), but Melo seems to be even more ridiculous right now by saying he would re-sign with Denver. Maybe it is due to the fact that we have all seen what comes of UFA (Unrestricted Free Agent) guys not re-upping or accepting their option, but with Melo, he is kind of being a tease about the whole thing by saying, "Well, I might, I don't know." LeBron and Bosh, to me, had more of a chance of re-upping at this point than Carmelo. The reason was that the Raptors and Cavs really had no viable trade options for either player and also had delusions of grandure in re-signing them. Now that the dream bubble has popped, is their any chance in hell that Carmelo does not go the way of Bosh and Bron to greener (or in the case of New York, cementier) pastures? Melo is phucking gone, and I all but think he will be in New York by 2011 if not sooner. My NBA predictions even factor in Melo being in New York. Denver should honestly not be so choosy, I know they want the best deal possible (or the best for whatever team Melo wants to go to has to offer, which is the Knicks and not the Nets in my opinion), but you will not get fair market value for a guy in free agency. It does not happen, especially since New York would be able to sign Melo in the summer giving the Nuggets zilch (a first or second round pick, and the first round pick would probably be in the 20's by next year, if the Knicks have it available). So, why is Melo teasing like this? It is just stupid, did he not learn from Bosh and Bron? You DO NOT want to try and convince your team you are staying, because if you leave, everyone will hate you. To me, this is arrogance at its worst, not learning from past mistakes and just genuinely showing no real responsibility for your actions. Well, I guess I should not expect more than that, but, Melo does not have to do this to Nuggets fans. Honesty would be a much better policy, unless the snowball survives hell and he does stay in Denver.
The Nets' deal was almost done...didn't happen. Why? Melo wasn't ready to say " I'm agreeing to a extension"
I know guys like Stanford Hoops, BTPH and others will say " It's hear say and it's not gonna happen" but if your Denver, you saw 3 franchises ( Phoenix, Cleveland and Toronto) believe thier superstar was coming back and then they left with little to nothing ( Note- Toronto got back thier 1st round pick in that Bosh Sign and Trade) so if your Denver, do you want to look and say " We feel he's coming back when 10000 times he said he was ready to go?
Like I said before, Carmelo and LaLa both look at NY. Don't forget that. LaLa ( born in NY) knows the earning potential for Carmelo in New York. He and Amar'e Stoudemire could be dynamo's in NY.
By him not signing the extention they had on the table for him, I think that it is clear that he isn't convincing anyone in Denver that he wants to stay. He clearly wants out of the Nuggets organization. Now as far as a trade goes, like I said in another thread, Denver has lost basically all possible leverage they had when the Nets deal fell through (that would have been the best deal for them to take). They now have to accept a lesser package because the likelyhood of a deal like that won't come around again.
I read somewhere that New Jersey doesn't wanna put Derrick Favors back into the deal.
Three franchises saw their superstars leave with little to show for it, but please tell me how any of these deals proposed by Knicks fans or employees of the Knicks flagwavers - ESPN - leave the Nuggets in any better position. You saw a team a team with Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari. It stunk. Having those two is no improvement over Arron Afflalo and J.R. Smith. Raymond Felton was overpaid by the Knicks all of three months ago. Not only that, but he plays the one position that Denver has youth. If Denver is going to go young and bad, they might as well go with Ty Lawson seeing as how he is younger and cheaper. Look, the proposed deal that netted Denver Derrick Favors made sense because that is the kind of player who better positions a team when they are rebuilding. The Knicks don't have any guy like that.
I hate to beat a dead horse by saying this, but Anthony Randoplh is one of those guys. And a lot of GM's think so as well. He is still raw and young, and has a skill set that can be built upon. I'm not saying he's going to be the next big thing, but you don't think Denver would jump at the chance to have a player with his skill set and potential?
And they probally aren't even a Great Team after a Trade like that happens...They'd still ahve Mosgov and Turiaf playing Center...They'll lose any depth they thought they had in losing Gallo/Randolph and Chandler...Felton wouldn't be included in any deal...They'd have to give up the 3 young guys and Curry's expiring contract and The Picks they might own form now until the Apocalypse...But Melo wants NY for some odd reason and may sign there anyway so they may have to take Randolph and Chandler and find another team to Trade Gallo to...The picks won't be worth much but trade bait or bench players...They have to build around Lawson,Chandler,Randolph,Birdman and JR...Then just get better through the Draft...I see them signing Tayshaun Prince next year and moving on without Melo...The Knicks will likely sign Melo and Then set their sights on Chris Paul...it kinda sucks when a Team like The Blazers and Sixers can offer the Nuggets more for Melo and Become better teams then the Knicks,..
The Blazers could trade the Nuggets...Oden or Camby...Rudy and Babbit...and possibly Bayless or Andre Miller...plus a pick or two which won't hurt them going forward...they also have a stash of Euro talent...
The Sixers could offer Iguadola(established player), Thad Young( young player) and Jason Kapono(cap relief) and a pick in 2011 or 2012( lottery protected )
Both Teams IMO would be in better shape than The Knicks without a Chris Paul or Deron Williams...And wouldn't have raped their roster for Melo...
No he isn't. What good is a raw player who shows no improvement from year one to year two?
He was injured...Randolph only played 33 games last year. Everyone forgets that. Plus when he did play he averaged double digits in points coming off the bench and averaged 6.5 rebounds. I didn't get a chance to improve because of an injury setback.
And they'd try to find a 3rd team to Take Gallo...I think They'd go for a Veteran in FA next year( Tayshaun Prince) and Just Trade Gallo for a Pick at the Draft...They'll have cap relief from Curry,Martin and JR...Randolph would be their PF of the Future...They'd be bad if this deal goes Through so maybe they'll get a High Pick and get a Kanter or highly rated Sg in the draft...Lawson-Chandler-Randolph and Draft pick seem like a good start ...it beats nothing...Billups and Prince,with Harrington,Nene,Birdman,Balkman and Affalo would be a decent team for the next few seasons...They'll need to find out if Billups is a part a the future...they need a Vet like him but he deserves to compete for a another Ring...
Derrick Favors is better then Danillo Gallinari?
Speaking of beating a dead horse...Melo will not go to the 76ers over the Knicks!
1. Bigger Market. NY will always be a bigger market than Philadelphia. That's just the way it is. I don't care how much history the 76ers have on their side, the Knicks may not have been the franchise they once were, but the city damn sure hasn't changed. This is the place to make money, period. Endorsements alone can set him for life.
2. The Chance to play with a superstar. Andre Iguodala is gifted, but he isn't the type of player that puts asses in seats. I like him, I always have, but he isn't captivating in anyway, shape or form. Stoudemire on the other hand, has personality. He always has something to say. He is the more mainstream of the two. I'm not taking away from the skill of Iggy, but outside of Philadelphia, no one really speaks of him.
3. Roster. The Knicks have more young players to part with to get Melo, without leaving a hole in the roster at some position. If they trade Gallo or Randolph, they got a young guy like Bill Walker who would get more minutes. Same applies for Landry Fields, who I think can be a servicable role player down the road for years to come. If you guys trade Young for example, Turner has to start, and that leaves a hole in the bench. Trade Speights and that's worse because that leaves a hole in the front court. The Knicks do have a good bench (one of the better one's in the East) because of the flexiblity at the positions they have. Most of the Knicks bench are swingmen, unlike the bench of the 76ers.
A trade to the Blazers isn't likely to happen, because it is league known that they love to stack draft picks. They aren't likely to deal a first round pick because they like what they got.
The Knicks would be a great team after that happens. You mean to tell me you don't think that with two guys who could score 25+ points a night, in a run and gun system wouldn't be a 40 win team at the least? And please don't compare them to the Warriors, this is the East we're talking here. The last two seeds are up for grabs.
You know...there are stable bench players in FA still right? Erick Daimper, Rashard McCants, Sean May, Mark Blount and there's tons more of 6 fouls, late game blowout guys. The Knicks need not worry about that.
Also, Portland and Philadelphia. Don't you think Melo would have been already traded there? Philadelphia is a good spot BUT Melo doesn't wanna play there with a boatload of young guys ( who we completly don't know will pan out this season) and Portland is in the division.....no bueno
"Derrick Favors is better then Danillo Gallinari?"
I cannot imagine there would be a rebuilding team that would rather want to have Gallinari over Favors.
Im not that high on either one, it depends on what team is getting them, Denver needs a young big man so i would take him over Gallo.
It does depend on what team is getting them. Denver needs Favors more than Gallo. A team like the 76ers needs Gallo more than Favors. They can use a couple more shooters.
I cannot imagine there would be a rebuilding team that would rather want to have Gallinari over Favors.
Then honestly, there's alot of bad front office people. I understand why you would pick the big man but umm...he hasn't looked impressive at all. Also, he hasn't proved anything. Also, I look at the draft in 2011 and wonder, he's good but I think Denver could use that 1st round pick ( if Melo leaves them, thier pick would be high) and grab a Enes Kanter or Fab Melo.
If Feltons involved irt will be a 3 team deal. Billups, Lawson, and Felton? No...
Denver can let Melo walk and get nothing for him. That would be devestating for the franchise. It seems readily obvious that he does not want to resign there so why play around when you know you have to move him?
Last I checked the other top 15 players in the NBA are not on the trading block so Denver will not recieve equal value for Melo, but cap money AND picks is about as good as they will get.
If Feltons involved irt will be a 3 team deal. Billups, Lawson, and Felton? No...
Well...read the next post. Billups will moved.
Why would they move billups when he is the perfect veteran to pass the torch to Lawson, it doesnt make sense. I think Lawson can be better then Felton ever was and although they would be putting 2 North Carolina alumni PGs together I still say they wait for Billups to fade away and wait to pass the torch to Lawson. That way Lawsons next contract deal is alot smaller too.
It's not about "Oh, we gotta let him grow from Billups" it's more about "were cutting back, let's throw Felton in there, keep Lawson at that 6th man type level and build eventually around Lawson, Gallo and picks"
It would be a 3 way...NY-Denver-Portland
NY gets...Melo and JR
Denver Gets...Anthony Randolph,Wilson Chandler,Rudy Fernandez,Luke Babbit and Eddie Curry...Plus Ny draft picks in 2011 or 2012.
Portland gets...Danilo Gallinari and 2nd rounder from Denver in 2011...
The Nuggets would want Randolph,Chandler and Currys's deal...The Draft Picks ...and then Trade Gallo to a Third Team for another Player they'd want to devolope...The Nuggets would likely sign a guy Like Prince next year to run with Billups and Co...Knicks have to ask themselves is a trade vike that worth it...
Nuggets...Billups-Affalo-Chandler-Randolph-Nene-Lawson-Balkman-Harrington-Birdman-JR and Martin(Expiring)
Example of Guys they can for Gallo in a 3 way...Rudy and Babbit from The Blazers...Gallo and Batum would look a lot like The Pippen/Kukoc Sf combo....Rudy is unsettled in Portland and Babbit can be replaced by Gallo..Mattews was signed over the summer and Rudy can go to a Rebuilding Nuggets and replace JR Smith...
Please stop bringing up Portland....it's unlikely Denver would bring a division rival into there moves.
i see what btph is trying to say, but there is no fair trade for melo especially if he wont sign an extension. him not signing an extension is basically a no trade clause. but if i were the nuggets, i would rather get curry, randolph and chandler with a pick than a trade exception for him like the raps and cavs got. at this point denver needs to cut their losses. this is a no win for them but they need to not be stubborn and do what is best for their team.
if i were the gm for denver, i would trade melo for randolph, chandler, curry, and picks(first and 2nd).
then trade billups and birdman to atlanta for marvin williams and jamal crawford and picks.
they get a ton of cap room(which wont help them much but atleast they wont be bad and expensive), get young players that have something to prove(randolph and williams) plus they get some picks to build that roster from the ground up. moving a superstar like that means you need to start from scratch. if they makes these trades early on, they can also contend for a top 5 pick.
the other angle is wait until closer to the deadline but i think that is a fine line to walk as teams will know you are in a bind.
Actually reports are that Denver nixed the deal to jersey and Melos people were (and still are) on board with the trade. Denver isn't sure about favors but are still in talks with the nets and has been sending out there scouts to watch favors every nets game(all this was talking about on espn,nbatv,)
Owners and Gm's are not passing up talent because a division foe has the player they won't...no deals would be made with that thinking...If the Lakers wanted to trade the Celtics Kobe for Allen and Pierce...do you think the Celtics say no becasue We hate them and we played in the finals like 100 times...no they'd say thank you for offering us Kobe Bryant, nice doing business with you...
Gallo fits in the Blazers system with Batum backing him up or vice versa...Rudy and Babbit would be given bigger roles in Denver and then Billups can teach them the ins and outs...NY gets the guy they want and JR Smith to boot...they only have to give up Randolph,Chandler,Gallo,Curry and Draft Picks...
Your beloved Knicks get what they want in my scenario and pick apart The Blazers getting involved in the deal...
If I were the Knicks I would take out Felton, and put in his place a draft pick or two. (Probably lottery protected). You need a PG who can pass (albeit somewhat well) and help facilitate the offense in this league. Without a legitamate PG you are powerless, and teams will just walk right over you. True having Melo will help a ton but still having the presence of somewhat passing PG like Felton will help even more. Melo will win you some games but without Felton the Knicks will never win a championship. And no, Toney Douglas is not the answer. He is a backup(Fringe Starter) and that is all he will be, but Felton on the other hand has the chance to become a good PG (not great like D-will and CP3, but still good enough) if he has the right attitude and focus.
Look at the Nuggets before Chauncey came to Denver, the Nuggets were good but could never get past the first round. Once Chauncey came via the AI trade, they made it past the first round, and not only that but challenged the eventual champion Lakers in 2009 and almost swept them. (this would have happened if it weren't for Ariza and his terrific defense on the inbounds play in games 1 and 3) The presence of Billups made all the difference. Felton can do the same thing with the Knicks. Douglas will never get that chance because he just isn't that good while Felton is.
one of the first times i saw la la mentioned about how much she wants him in ny because of the marketing potential i dont get why they dont wanna go to new jersey and play with d harris and lopez and wiht the new russian owner whos gonna spend to get the nets better