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can we please....say it????

Stanford hoops
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if he retied he would have

if he retied he would have been a very good player overall..basically in the mold of mitch richmond...paul peirce would have been in that same boat if not for the players he had around him..vince carter will be in that same boat even though he has got past the first round...another thing since mcgrady will get past the first round next year whats gonna be youre arguement aginst him then?..not champitonships?

QHaynes123
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josh

you need to stop that whole "my logic" BS. I like Granger....I think i wanna see him attack the basket so more because I think the Rush-Granger combo looks good.

Wade did get out of round 1 without shaq

So then your saying T-mac is not a good leader?

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no im saying mcgrady had no

no im saying mcgrady had no help...who else stepped up besides mcgrady during those playoffs?

Stanford hoops
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obviously youre logic makes

obviously youre logic makes zero sense since you cant get one person to agree with you

QHaynes123
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uhhh

in the mold of mitch richmond? T-mac reminds many people of Gervin...but OK

and isint what people say every year? when he advances to round 2- i'll what and see on that because Ron-Ron is a free agent ( btw, read my Ron-Ron stock up post)

I dunno- To be honest, if t-mac wins a playoff series...his career (to me) becomes a what-if career. What if he could stay healthy? you know what i mean?

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i never said he reminds me

i never said he reminds me of mitch richmond reread what i was responding to..."if his career ended right now how would u describe it"..and alot of players have what if careers when you have no help

QHaynes123
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ok

ill just say this am i done : I think T-mac is overrated cuz he never won a playoff series..

thats it...i dont care what you think...kick rocks

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good for you

good for you

QHaynes123
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hey

thanks

Hood Kid
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so you're standards

so you're standards basically stand only for mcgrady,isn't that nice,and it's harder for a big man to lead a team,it's hard for anyone without a surrounding talent,no need to single out bigman just cause you think garnett's a top 5 player which he is,but you just don't get what makes a great player,but hey we all know the true and i feel sorry for you cause you can't see it

Hale
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Winning games really doesn't

Winning games really doesn't have much to do with how good of a player you are. Yes, the truly great ones elevate the play of their teammates but other then maybe LeBron and sometimes Kobe, which wing player does that? McGrady was a top 5 player for a period of time. Is he that now? No. Would I take the top 5 players in 2003 or 2004 over the top 5 players now? Hell no. Shaq, KG, Kobe, Duncan and McGrady were they best with AI interchangable with anyone except KG on that list. Dn't use wining games as an argument over a players talent though. So he isn't a Hallf of Fam player, he was a very good one and was great in his prime. If you think about it he is a lot like his former teammate Grant Hill.

a2
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T-Mac

In the past seaons T-Mac hasn't been the player he once was. It just seems like a couple of years ago when he was one of the top players in the league. Its a shame that he couldn't contribute to the rockets succuess in the playoffs and finally making it to the second round. Its hard for me to say he is overrated but at the sametime i agree with the statement for the fact his team has shown they can be successful without him. He has definatley fallin off his game but without his injuries i believe we would still have the great T-Mac. Since that isnt the case i believe, even though i hate to say it, as of now he is now overrated.

QHaynes123
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i hate

I hate to say it too.

I think when everyone looks back on his career. If he does not win a playoff series

i think he could be called, the most overrated player ever

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You care way too muc about

You care way too muc about this playoff stuff, don't use it as your only argument. Karl Malone never won a ring, is he overrated? Just because a guy can't lead a team of misfits in Orlando to the second round and a good team playing better ones with Houston doesn't make him overrated. He is one man, no the team. Get a real argument about him as a player.

QHaynes123
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agreed

Maybe i am hold the Playoff thing a little too much but it goes back to the whole NBA unbalenced thing as well.

I never said no ring means he's overrated. Malone help take a team to a title during a time where he was the only inside threat they had. He won a MVP too

I understand he is not the "whole team" but name another guy who we agree who at one point in time was a top 5 player.... ever put his team on his back ONCE. not matter what. 5 game or 7 game series with the lead?

Its more about those series when he lead too. I mean up 3-1?! As a top 5 player, you have to close it out

nthegoodlife
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The thing....

The thing you keep forgetting, is he (barring no more injuries would've had many more chances to advance. You're holding his injuries against him. I'll just be bold, you suck at life. This is the most ridiculous &$#%#&@! I've ever read. JUST DROP IT! He's top 5 to anyone who remembers how "great" he was at one point and he's not to those who don't remember his unbelievable moments.

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Kobe was up 3-1, and lost.

Kobe was up 3-1, and lost. Just to use that against you. He should have closed it out.

QHaynes123
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Let me hurt all of your feelings and end it right now

Let me hurt all of your feelings and end it right now.

Ever Heard of Colin Cowherd? He talks about this on this show. And hes right

Guys like T-mac, Damon Stoudemire, Marbury and Francis

Those guys made the NBA unbalanced ( He said they kill the NBA, i wont go that far)

NBA teams gave these guys big deals and expected them to be superstars. They shoot more than pass. They missed more than make and they could put a team on thier back and lead....like superstars do.

It doesnt matter what you think cuz its all opinions.

Hale
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Im pretty sure Kobe and

Im pretty sure Kobe and LeBron and Wade didn't shoot over 50% so that would mean they miss more then they make as well...

QHaynes123
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1st off

1st off....Name another guy who was consider a top 5 NBA player and did not win 1 series

Wade? Lebron? Kobe? Come on now...these guys have proven there top 5 guys

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Garnett went like 8 years

Garnett went like 8 years before doing it.

QHaynes123
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ok

I like that you thought of someone ( you were the 1st) but i cannot disagree

Garnett is a PF. He is not normally supposed to take the ball up the court and shoot 3's an all that

I agree it took him a minute. But in the NBA, its tougher for a team with a big man superstar...to lead the team.

Also, in the West from 1997- 2005. You had to deal with Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, Webber, Hakeem the Dream, Barkley, Kemp and Malone every year. You know? No excuse is no excuse but he was getting pretty much attacked every year and he never had a series lead..i think

QHaynes123
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im sorry

nthegoodlife. Your a lame. You write on a post that i have no life? Tell that to other ESPN GUYS AND other sports writers who agree with me!

and please man...grow some nuts and hop off of mines

Hale
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No offense but no espn guy

No offense but no espn guy or sports writer will agree with you that McGrady is the most overrated player ever, probably won't even say he is overrated until this last year..

QHaynes123
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no

I cant find any stories but yea...to a point...I think overall hes overrated. Youre right too. Not alot of people didnt say he was overrated but alot of Sports people would say he does not have the IT factor.

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QHAYNES

Colin Cowherd? who cares? he's just like any of us, except he has a radio show. he's just a fan with a forum. the only difference between Kobe, D. Wade, and T-Mac in their primes is Shaquille O'Neal. 1 guy is not gonna accomplish anything in the NBA playoffs by himself. the fact that you use the word "ever" just goes to show that you're singling out T-Mac unfairly and you just dont like him. thats fine, but you're alone on this one, so why not let it die? and what is this "it factor"? it doesn't exist. stop making stuff up. lol

QHaynes123
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uhhh

i did let it die....but a couple posted so i answered them...sorry

And if I wrong. Find someone in NBA history more overrated? Test me then...ill play this little game

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jeez

let it die brother...i'm not gonna name anyone in history who is more overrated because i dont think he's overrated at all. don't you understand that no matter who i name we're going to disagree? our first issue, is that we have completely different views on the word "overrated". lets just end this topic...

QHaynes123
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ok

ok

Hood Kid
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lol

you're still on that whole t-mac's overrated stuff,it really gets funnier by the post,you obviously don't like t-mac,we can all see it,just cut it out and hold your opinions to yourself and stop vasting our time cause no one's buying what you're saying,you don't even have a case

QHaynes123
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......

whatever

Hood Kid
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i'm so sick of you,just to

i'm so sick of you,just to quote jeff van gundy:"i'm sick and tired hearing it about t-mac,he's a terrific player,when his team wins it's a team win,but when his team loses it's t-mac's fault,come on just cut it out"

QHaynes123
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ok

Thank you......im sick of you too...im so done with this topic and its nut-huggers like you who continue to post on it

nthegoodlife
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You...

Have an obsession with nuts, so what does that make you. Just admit you hate TMac, one of the smoothest players to ever play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXUfP7fUD5w

QHaynes123
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wow

You a lame....chill drop it...it doesnt matter

and no I have an obsession with your mom...what does that make me? Your father

QHaynes123
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wow

You a lame....chill drop it...it doesnt matter

and no I have an obsession with your mom...what does that make me? Your father

nthegoodlife
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Very...

mature, thanks for the trip back to elementary school.

QHaynes123
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your welcome

And the nuts comment wasnt anything..you know? It wasnt bad..no i was the rude 1....dont post here again

Hale
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QHaynes123

You started with the nut stuff. Just stop posting, this hasn't been a good topic for you.

QHaynes123
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Well then

EVeryone should just stop posting then....READ MOCK DRAFT 3.0

ckowalski
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YAO MING

Yao is way more overrated than tmac. personally mcgrady is one of my favorite players so ill try to make this logical and not based on how i feel. Yao was seen as the savior to houston in the 02 draft and he couldnt even lead them out of the first round with the yao/cuttino/francis combo. they tried that for a few years and then got mcgrady for HELP. HELP. not to be the main person on that team. for HELP. to HELP yao. mcgrady didnt get his first big deal until he went to orlando. he was mostly a bench player on the raps for the first few years and then exploded and got a nice deal. he wasnt used to being the first, let alone only option for orlando (I dont think we have to talk about how god awful those orlando teams were).

think about it. even before this trading deadline yao was still the only untouchable player on the roster. why the loyalty to a big man who would rather shoot a fade away than post you up? yao did nothing of value while tmac has been in houston. he regularly breaks his foot in the playoffs and disappears. mcgrady has the fifth highest scoring average in the playoffs in nba history. yao sometime struggles to get double digit rebounding. It took yao 7 years to "lead" his team out of the first round and he had a much better team around him than tracy ever did. Except for the first game against portland he was pretty underwhelming the entire series.

I think if youre going to say anything about tmac it should be that he might be remembered as the best player to never make it out of the first round. Hes not overrated and im pretty sure he wasnt rated as a top 5 overall player coming out of high school. Didnt he get drafted number 9 or something like that? and as far as being up 3-1 it was to the number one seed pistons and the magic were an 8 seed. I think we all know the only 8 seed to ever beat a 1 seed in a 7 game series

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qhaynes

and would you really take the only chance the human race has to see someone actually spontaneously combust in ron artest over tmac?

jcj
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T-Mac

@QHAYNES
I think you need to break down T-Mac's career to understand where the other viewpoints are coming from. In his first couple of years, he didn't even average double figures (7.0 ppg and 9.3 ppg) and was only at 15.4 ppg in his 3rd year. I don't think people were rating him Top 5 talent at this stage though they were already recognizing his potential.

He increased his scoring average more than 10 points in his third year to 26.8 ppg, and averaged 25.6, 32.1, 28.0 and 25.7 over the next four years which included his first year in Houston. I believe this was the time he was being rated as a Top 5 talent. And despite his lack of playoff success, we would need to see who else were the stars of the league at this point. Remember that being a Top 5 player is a point-in-time snapshot. In other words, his being a top 5 player in, say 2002-03, does not mean he is a Top 5 player now.

After his last good year, his first in Houston (2004-05, 25.7 ppg), he played only 47 games the following year and his game slipped. He still averaged a respectable 24.4 and 24.6 ppg in 2005-06 and 2006-07, as well as 21.6 ppg in 2007-08 but I don't think he was still considered a Top 5 player by then. Clearly, he is not one now, not only because of his lack of playoff success, but also because of his injury history as well as the size of his contract.

Currently, McGrady can probably rightfully be considered overrated or an underachiever or overpaid given the size of his contract and his current abilities. But we need to understand that this contract was given to him when he was playing the best ball of his career, and based on his play in the early years, he did deserve it then.

My personal take on this is as follows:

Yes, he was a top 5 player at a certain point in his career.
No, he is not a top 5 alltime player nor even a top 5 player at this point.
Yes, he is overrated now if you consider his contract size vs his performance.
No, he was not overrated at the peak of his career.

Also, determining whether a player is overrated depends on what you are looking at also. Thus, while he might be overrated based on your assessment parameters (i.e. carrying a team on his back = winning a series) perhaps others might have different basis (i.e. carrying a team on his back = making it to the playoffs, and not necessarily winning any series).

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T-Mac

By the way, forgot to mention also that:

No, I don't think he's the "most overrated all-time" player. While he may be overrated at this point of his career (and with the contract and hype that he gets now), there were years when he deserved the stature.

Yes, he could be one of the most underachieving player because of his lack of success winning. This though would depend on what standard is used in determining what the standards/factors would be.

Knicksboy34
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can someone name someone

can someone name someone more overrated?

ckowalski
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By overrated do you mean

By overrated do you mean someone who has had a good career but hasnt lived up to some expectation set by someone else because of injuries?

People wouldn't touch Baron Davis with a 10 foot pole after he blew out his knee and he still led the Warriors to make NBA history. Yao Ming has been out of the 1st round of the playoffs once in 7 years and been hurt 3 times in the playoffs. Gilbert Arenas has barely played the last 2 years because of knee problems and people are already talking about replacing him. Nene tore his ACL 3 minutes into his season 3 years ago after being injured much of the season before, then 2 years ago found out he had testicular cancer, then this year was actually healthy and was great. How many people hated on him when he was out?

Even guys like Chris Webber, Allan Houston, and Jason Kidd never elevated their game to the level it was at before their surgeries.

I would say Greg Oden too but it might be a little early to put him on this list. When he got picked GM's were talking about building teams around him.

What about Allen Iverson last year when people were calling him out for his back injury? This is a guy who has played through bruises, sprains, pulls, and broken bones and one of the only times he couldnt play his toughness and passion were being called into question.

Hale
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More overrated then Tmac now

More overrated then Tmac now or in his prime?

Knicksboy34
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in his prime....

in his prime....

Hale
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Then probably half the

Then probably half the league because in his prime he was a true beast of a player, whose only weakness was his shot selection and defensive effort. He was truly amazing then.

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you see i disagree with

you see i disagree with that....

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