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can we please....say it????

QHaynes123
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can we please....say it????

T-mac (Tracy McGrady) is the most overrated player.....EVER ( I dont hate him...but im being honest)

He had a good 4 year strecth and then people were calling him a top 5 player. Healthy or non-healthy he could never lead his team to the SECOND ROUND.

Houston lost T-mac and they got Better!!!

To b honest.....hes another reason why the NBA is never balanced. Guys like T-mac, VC, Marbury, Damon Stoudmire: Guard that shoot more than pass and get the big contract to be the #1's on a team.

agree...disagree? tell me how you feel?

UNTIL YOU CAN FIND ME ANOTHER GUY WHO PEOPLE SAID IN THE NBA WAS A TOP 5 PLAYER THAT COULDNT LEAD HIS TEAM TO 1 SERIES WIN....dont post on this


alphamale310
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disagree

i dont think its that simple. T-Mac left and they made it to round 2 so their better off without him. Iverson left Denver and they made round 2 so he must be overrated. Edgerin James left the Colts and they won the Super Bowl so he must have been hurting the team. there are so many circumstances that contribute to these types of situations. i think its unfair to heap the blame on 1 guy, even if he is the star.

That said, he never really had any help and once he and Yao got together neither could stay healthy. The Rockets ran off that crazy streak last year mostly without Yao. Did you for one second think Yao was overrated or that Houston was better off without him?

I think, and this has been said quite a bit, that a large part of Houston's success this year has come because they finally knew what they were going to have on their roster. Also, they faced an inexperienced Portland team this year. You can look at it in a lot of different ways. But i guarantee that nobody who has played with, against, or has coached T-Mac would call him the most overrated player ever. and for the record T-Mac is a very good passer.

nthegoodlife
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Not the most ever...

He's definitly not the most ever. Like alpha said, you do have to understand their are different circumstances which lead to different conclusions. TMAC lacked "IT", but still a great talent. He also never had much of a supporting cast.

QHaynes123
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i understand both

I understand what both of you posted...But people were crowing T-mac as a top 5 player and a Franchise Guy, He gets paid like a Franchise guy but doesnt always play like it. Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was when he said at times....he didnt play hard.

Yao is not overrated....but he is 7'5 and not too many guys are. How many 6-7 to 6-9 gus are coming out of the draft this year? I dont wanna blame it on him because he is a star, i blame him a little bit because he could never Lead his team.

Lebron won a playoff series without help
Iverson won a playoff series without help ( a.i and LBJ lead teams to finals!!!)
Wade won a playoff series with a young Odom and Butler
Jordan won a playoff series without help

Why not get on T-mac and his lack of leading a team? We call him a tier-1 NBA Superstar? come on now.

alphamale310
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T-Mac

T-Mac was a top 5 player in his Orlando days. I cant remember that roster exactly but i think his best teamate was Mike Miller. I dont think Grant Hill was ever healthy at that time. dont quote me on this, but i think their PG was Tyronne Lue. Jordan and Lebron might go down as the 2 best players of all time. T-Mac is not that good and I dont think anybody ever thought he was. Iverson had Mutombo and that defense. And like you said Wade had Odom and Butler. I dont mean to make excuses for T-Mac (which is exactly what i'm doing), but think its totally unfair to call him the most overrated ever. Strong choice of words, dont you think? Underachiever, yes, but professional sports is full of those.

nthegoodlife
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He was...

He was top 5, but top 5 then isn't top 5 now. We are lucky to witness what we have now, we have three extraordinary perimeter players in/or close to there prime, who can all D up with best, but offer an array of offensive talent that is unmatchable. But like I mentioned, top 5 then wouldn't merit top 5 now. You may be forgetting how great "healthy" TMAC was. Also, all players take plays off in every sport, some just have the balls to admit it. It would be ridiculous to think every player plays their hardest at all times.

QHaynes123
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so

So can you name another hype NBA player who is more overrated than McGrady and a guy who we had as a top 5 player in the NBA who really didn't deserve it? I have no one in mind....I mean most people hyped him up but when you think about it...he was a glorified #2 player. Thats why i said guys like T-mac were guys who never kept the NBA balanced...for a 3-6 year period...it was all about making sportscenter

Youre right Lebron and Jordan are probably gonna be the top 2 NBA players ever in history

Iverson had Mutombo...thats it...Iverson had to drop 35-40 points a night to keep them in contention.

Wade had Butler ( who was in his 2nd season) and Odom ( Who you can say he's over hyped)

So i will say he needed some help...but he did have some role players who could help ( Gordan Giricek, Drew Gooden, Mike Miller, Juwan Howard, DeShawn Stevenson, T-Lue and Darrell Armstrong) And he never made them better.

QHaynes123
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before anyone jumps on it

T-mac was not expected to make those guys better. But if he wanted to make the 2nd round. he should have help make these guys getter around him

alphamale310
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QHAYNES

look at that list you just made! Jordan couldnt do much with that! Again, i dont think T-Mac is overrated, just that he underachieved. If the league was unbalanced that's the GMs fault, not T-Macs. All he can do is play the hand that he's dealt. Like nthegoodlife said, no professial athlete goes hard all the time. They just are smart enough to never admit it. What do you mean by overrated exactly. His talent was never overrated. No one ever called him a born winner, so i dont think he's overrated in that sense either. He just hasnt had playoff success. But when he was healthy and in his prime he was a top 5 player in the NBA without question.

QHaynes123
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no hes not

Your getting it all wrong...when hes healthy...hes a great scorer...above average passer...good rebounder

I say hes overrated because he never did anything to me to say hes that good. Healthy or not this man is not a top 5 talent. People say top 5 but I rather say hes a top 25-35 player in the NBA today. Sorry to say but ill take guys like (Long List here and I'd take all these guys in their primes) Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Jamal Mashburn, Chris Webber, Mike Bibby, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, Ron Artest among other over McGrady if i was buillding a team...Im Dead Serious

What do you mean Jordan couldn't do it? Before Jordan arrived...Quinton Dailey led the team in scoring...he won a defensive player of the year award and before Pippen arrived he still won a couple of playoff series. You give Jordan thoes guys and T-mac the talent MJ had before Pippen....MJ would have won a playoff series...Remind me here....wasnt he up 3-1 against the Pistons? Never closed. Up in the 1st Utah series only to go to game 7? couldnt close. Remember that Dallas series?? They let Dallas go to Game 7 and got SMACKED BY 40. Name a MJ team, Lebron Team that happened to? Never

alphamale310
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QHAYNES

i'm gonna let this convo die. Now that I see that list, i see that you've got something againt T-Mac and have lost all objectivity.

QHaynes123
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wrong again

1st off...defend those playoff series for me

2nd- Yea because I rather have a guy who can help Win me 4 games then someone who can score 30 points per game and struggle in the playoffs...CONSTATLY.

also, i should have put Roy , Butler and Aldridge on that list sorry.

Hood Kid
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he isn't overrated by any

he isn't overrated by any means,when healthy he's easily the top 5 player in the league,he just had bad luck with injuries which resulted in a loss of explosiveness,speed and hops,and his crucial teammates hill and ming were also often injured,but when healthy as soon as he steps on the court he's a menace,he can do everything on offense,he can score in a variety of ways and he can shoot it lights out,he can post up,play off the bounce and pull up,dunk on people with ease,make four threes in 35 seconds and he can stroke it just inside the center line witnessed by his showoff with arenas at hurricane katrina tribute game,also he's a terrific passer(he's creative,he's got great vision,feel for the game,great ball handler)and he can be a constant triple double threat,altough he was always first option on offense and had all the freedom,he's always had many assists,especially for sg,he's always had a burden of carrying a team and getting wins without much talent surrounding him and he never bailed out on the task,granted he never made it to the second round,but his orlando team was weak without hill,he's had some solid players,but they were young or just good,and the team lacked great coaching touch and some d,doc was young and inexperienced coach,his houston days are pretty much highlighted by injuries,he's had some very good teams there,but injuries and strong competition out west kept him from the second round but he did manage to ride a second longest winning streak in the nba history of 22 games,mostly without yao,this team without him is good cause they were able to stay together and portland clearly lacked experience,7 time all star,7 time all nba(2 times all nba first team),22.7 carrer ppg ,28.5 in the playoffs,also he's got two scoring titles,he did underachieve but he certainly wasn't overrated,ring is the only thing he's missing,but it will come,sooner or later

QHaynes123
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first off

first off...thanks for commenting...but i cannot agree

What does 4 threes in 35 seconds in the regular season say? I says to me...wow hes trying hard....that night
Portland did lack experience...but Utah did not have that experience in their 1st matchup either
7 all star appearances means nothing. Thats a popularity vote sorry.
22 wins...in the regular season. That 22-game streak was good i must admit. But in that strecth they found out that Scola and Landry and Brooks could do something to help the team.
I agree he could shoot, pass and rebound good.
I dont thinks hes a top 5 player healthy or non-healthy today. (Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Wade, Melo, Pierce,KG just to name a few)

I do think he's gonna win a ring but not with Houston...i think he leaves and goes to a team to be a #2 TYPE option (Cleveland, San Antonio, Dallas, Denver, Orlando)

isint he a Free Agent this offseason?

Hood Kid
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he's a free agent in

he's a free agent in 2010,you said he struggled in the playoffs,career 28.5 ppg,6.9 rpg and 6.2 apg in the playoffs,i would say he played his heart out,you're blaming all on him,his teams weren't good enough,respect to portland but that utah team was better,and this is the best houston team since mcgrady's there and maybe overall in his career,you've trashed 7 all star appearences,what about 7 times all nba and two times all nba first team,in his prime last two years at orlando when he was two time scoring champ, he played like an mvp,was pierce better in his situation,was garnett,was anthony,wade this year?in his prime he was as good as them,put him in a situation of duncan,or get him shaq,or a great defensive team on the east and he's a top 5 player,that's weak,unfortunately injuries slowed him down,i'm down with alpha,you've got something against mcgrady,it's a shame really

QHaynes123
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well

ok...i dont have anything against T-mac

youre right the 2 all-nba's are good for him and 2 scoring titles are remarkable honestly. I gave T-mac Credit for his personal numbers but here are his team numbers

2000- series lost to Milwaukee( Allen, Glenn Robinson against T-mac...ok i understand)
2001-series lost to Charlotte ( i remember this sweep...i think this wasnt T-mac's fault)
2002-series lost to Detriot ( Up 3-1 and lost games 5,6 and 7 by at least 20)
2004-series lost to La Lakers( Fair...cant kill him on this one)
2005-series lost to Dallas( lead the series....allowed dallas back and lost game 7 by 40)
2006-series lost to Utah( Utah's 1st playoff series since 03....lost another game 7)
2007-series lost to Utah( wasnt a fair series....yao was hurt)
He played the most career playoff games without advancing

He had some terrible series....T-mac is a top 5 player? 4 of those 7 series he had Yao and could not advance?

I dont hate the guy but like Jay-Z said " Men lie. Women Lie. Numbers Don't

Hood Kid
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ha had some terrible

ha had some terrible series:
2000:16.7 ppg 7 rpg 3apg (but that was his first playoff appareance,he was young and inexperienced,and carter pulled all the strings,all things considered he was still great and against a good team)
2001:33.8 ppg 6.5 rpg 8.3 apg
2002:30.8 ppg 6.3 rpg 5.5 apg
2003:31.7 ppg 6.7 rpg 4.7 apg
2005:30.7 ppg 7.4 rpg 6.7 apg
2007:25.3 ppg 5.9 rpg 7.3 apg
2008:27 ppg 8.2 rpg 6.8 apg
like what???????????????????
he had yao only two times and lost both series in 7 games in the ultra competitive west,but you can't be serious blaming all those loses on him,team is not a one man show,that orlando team was average,and dallas was great that year,and why exactly is his fault that they lost by 40,did you ever think yao didn't step up,or that rest of the team didn't produce,or that team didn't measure up,or that other team was simply better,it's like you're finding reasons to attack mcgrady,lame man

nthegoodlife
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Nice...

Way to hit him with the "numbers" hood kid. You obviously don't remember TMac in his prime. He wasn't Kobe, but no one ever said he was. He was still great and was unguardable (it's a shame injuries have to happen).

QHaynes123
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can you read

PLEASE READ THIS SLOWLY BECAUSE YOUR NOT READING MY POST RIGHT

Once again...thanks for reading

read the 2nd paragraph in my last post

Read the comment next to the series....wow...are you slow?? am i blaming him for all those series?

I watched T-mac in his prime and gave him respect in personal numbers. Well the teams he was on say he couldn't lead a team. I NEVER HEARD A TOP 5 GUY WHO COULD NOT LEAD HIS TEAM TO ROUND 2 OF THE NBA PLAYOFFS.

and the the top 5 thing makes me laugh. 1st off your saying the wrong thing and maybe you didnt understand me. On the court, Tracy McGrady is a top 15 TALENT...no doubt But when you factor in his numbers (which are good), team numbers ( which are not great so far) and the potential legacy he may leave ( depends on the fans but to me he's a great scorer and at times was unstoppable but never did it when it mattered) all that says to me was that he was OVERRATED.

But hey....if you can find someone who is more overrated...please name him for me.

D Hamp
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I've had enough of this.

I've had enough of this. Anyone who thinks McGrday is overated is crazy!

Now, for a five-year strech he looked like hall-of-fame material. But the injuries have halted his career. It's sad. Houston actually got better after him (something I predicted.) i would trade him this offseason and keep Artest and Battier, two of the top seven defenders in the NBA.

D Hamp... The most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

Hood Kid
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first off all he's not

first off all he's not overrated,his numbers are great,he's definitely a top 5 talent and he was a top 5 player in the league in his prime without a doubt,he's amazing in the playoffs,in each and every one of the series he was terrific witnessed by the numbers above,all of those guys you've mentioned advanced in the second round with not good but with great teams,like bryant,wade,garnett,duncan,pierce,anthony,so it's mcgrady's fault he never had luck with injuries and the surrounding talent,yea no one's buying that

QHaynes123
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uhh

Ok...lets examine this help me Hood Kid

Pierce had Walker, Eric Williams, Kenny Anderson, Rodney Rodgers...any superstars?

Garnett had Spreewell and Cassell....McHale gave KG two aging vets who could ball a lil and they went to the conference finals

Kobe had Shaq...you win

Duncan- he had a old Robinson his first title run and a young parker and ginobili his second title run

Wade- 1st playoff series- had a underachiving Odom and a 2nd year Bulter...

Another Thing, why aren't you at least respecting the fact i gave him some cred? You never defended his playoff problems and you could not find a guy more overrated...

nthegoodlife
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Q...

Did he dunk on you at some point, because your level of hate is undeniable.

Hood Kid
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cassell arguably had his

cassell arguably had his best season that year and he was an all star that year 16.6 ppg btw,spre was a second leading scorer 19.8 ppg,and those 3 combined for a highest scoring trio in the league and sczerbiak 11.8 ppg,how bout that,duncan had an all star robinson 15.6 ppg 9.9 rpg 2.3 bpg and kerr,johnson,ellie,elliot,rose,daniels,jackson great great role players,second time he had young parker 14.7 ppg 3.5 apg and ginobili 9.4 ppg but he still had an all star david robinson and smith,jackson,rose,willis,kerr,ferry,bowen,claxton pretty great wouldn't you say,odom 17.1 ppg 9.7 rpg 4.1 apg,in the playoffs 16.8 ppg 8.3 rpg 2.8 apg,how did he underachieve,butler bounced back in the playoffs 12.8 ppg 8.5 rpg 2.2 spg,eddie jones 13.2 ppg hey he's an all star,and alston,grant,pretty balanced,those were walker's all star years,kenny anderson great pg,rodney rogers great role player,joe johnson,battie,delk,baker,williams...he isn't overrated and that's why i'm not even looking who is,i won't give you credit for something everybody knows,what playoff problems he was fabouls,his teams weren't that's it

alphamale310
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lol

QHAYNES is actually Shawn Bradley!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5L8bxVXhlM

Hood Kid
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i wouldn't be surprised,i

i wouldn't be surprised,i would be mad too if someone dunked on me like that,no matter how great he was

nthegoodlife
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I believe...

I believe thats him, why else would he be so upset about TMac.

QHaynes123
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you got me

your right....and you continue to show you why im correct about why he's overrated

still waiting for someone to defend the playoff series.....

still waiting to name someone whos more overrated.....

I dont hate T-mac again for the 100th time...Stop acting like i did not give him credit

Also, Hood Kid i must give you cred...and you know what....if you want i'll agree with you a little bit on the whole "need help thing" but please can some defend those last couple of playoff series?

QHaynes123
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Maybe i have to repost this?

and the the top 5 thing makes me laugh. 1st off your saying the wrong thing and maybe you didnt understand me. On the court, Tracy McGrady is a top 15 TALENT...no doubt But when you factor in his numbers (which are good), team numbers ( which are not great so far) and the potential legacy he may leave ( depends on the fans but to me he's a great scorer and at times was unstoppable but never did it when it mattered) all that says to me was that he was OVERRATED.

QHaynes123
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one more thing you guys are making me think you cant read

I think all you guys making jokes...are crazy man

I do not hate T-mac...i always watched him play in Toronto to Orlando to Houston and I never questioned his talent in any post ( go ahead read them) I own the man's jersey and I will always respect his game. I payed to see the man play so i dont hate him at all.

But , im not buying he needs more talent around him and its not his fault to a point. Everyone is saying he's a top 5 talent well i need to see a top 5 talent that could not lead his team to a series win. His series stats are sick, I'll give you that but in the end...Numbers mean nothing if you don't win. I dont think anyone can find someone more overrated and even then, When i say he's overrated. thats my opinion.

when you go up 3-1 in a series- you close the deal- T-mac did not
when your team goes to game 7 - you make it your game- T-mac did not and they lost by 40

A.I did not have the best supporting cast in 2001 when he put that team on His back to make the finals

Lebron James had to score when Cleveland went to the finals

Your honestly telling me a Top 5 player cant win me 4 games when it matters?

Hood Kid
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a.i. didn't have the best

a.i. didn't have the best supporting cast but he still had an all star in mutombo also defensive player of the year that year,best sixth man in the league that year in mckie,lynch,hill,snow,ollie,geiger good role players and great defensive team,and hall of famer and coach of the year that year brown,neither did james,but he also had an all star ilgauskas,snow,hughes,gooden,varejao,marshall,gibson,pavlović,also a great defensive team and many good role players,my point is give mcgrady great defensive team and/or a great coach on the east and let him do his thing,and remember both of those teams were no match for the west,game 6 mcgrady scores a game winner,they played game 7 in dallas against a great team nowitzki,terry,stackhouse,howard,van horn,harris,dampier,daniels,armstrong,bradley,come on much much better team then houston that year yao and mcgrady were the only ones in double figures and combined for the 60 of the 76 points rockets scored,and who's fault is it that mavs scored 116 is it mcgrady's fault,that detroit series detroit the number one team in the east,magic barely eighth come on,wallace,prince,hamilton,billups,williamson,robinson,curry,atkins,barry,again game 5 mcgrady only in double figures team scored only 67,game six mcgrady 37p11r only giriček and gooden in double figures team overall 88,game 7 mcgrady 21 gooden only other one in double figures team overall 93,to try to put this series on T-Mac would be wrong.I thought he did as much as a great player could do to quote doc rivers' statement,is mcgrady's fault detroit scored an average of 103 points while magic scored in an average of 82,is mcgrady's fault pistons shoot over 50% from the floor,and remember detroit was one of the best defensive teams that year,again no d on his squad and a lack of coaching,i'm telling you team is not a one man show top 5 player or not,wade was brilliant this year in the playoffs,he didn't advance,not enough help,garnett couldn't do it without help,how about duncan this year,not enough help,anthony had iverson,stil couldn't advance,what kobe did without gasol and shaq,he didn't advance,what pierce did without walker,didn't advance

QHaynes123
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come on now

and your saying im throwing out bad players...matt gieger?

honestly...im done arguing with you guys

Please forget responding to this post unless

you explain the definition of a top 5 player
Tell me how come he cant close a series...if he is a top 5 player...hall of fame type player he is
who in you Opinion ( since this is mine) is overrated

I gonna say this for the last time....I dont question T-mac's talent but when you call him a top 5 player...I say that's overrating him. And with the amount of people saying he's a top 5 player : i believe hes the most overrated NBA player in my recent memory...I'll take back the ever part since everyone spazzed on it and I havent live forever. Take it whatever way. You would take T-mac with a top 5 pick is your problem. I rather a guy like pierce. Sorry

Your right Hood Kid, those guys did not have the best supporting cast. But who on A.I's team could give you a honest 15 points? Lebron had to score alot to keep the Cavs in contention....and both of them made the finals...didnt win....but beats team with a couple better players...and GOT there

and if you can...find out how many times T-mac's team was the Favorite?

Hood Kid
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you can say anything about

you can say anything about geiger but he played a role on that team,who could give him 15,mutombo averaged 13.9 in the playoffs,and mckie 14.6 so...lebron scored 25.1 but he's team's offense was balanced ilgauskas 12.6,hughes 11.3,gooden 11.4,pavlović 9.2,gibson 8.3,varejao 6,and i constantly keep highlighting that both of those teams were one the best defensive teams in the league and they were well coached,your top 5 guys pierce,wade,garnett,duncan,bryant,anthony didn't advance without surrounding talent so i might be crazy like you and start calling them overrated but i know better,they did all they could but their teams just weren't good enough to advance or the other team was simply better,but hey i don't hate any one of them so who knows maybe they're not top 5 players until they find themselfs on a great team...he was favorite only once,against utah when they lost game 7 103:99,they won all home games but that one,t-mac in game 7 29p 5r 13a 12-25 fg 48% 3 blocked shots and only 2 to,is it mcgrady's fault boozer scored on a two offensive rebounds in the final 90 seconds,you tell me,is it his fault jazz shot 51.3% fg and 45.5 3p,is it his fault williams abused alston and boozer abused howard and hayes,is it his fault okur scored two three pointers in the crucial moments,his only two of the game

joecheck88
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mcgrady was a top 5 player,

mcgrady was a top 5 player, he was like a much weaker better shooting lebron. but lebron has the IT factor and mcgrady doesnt. mcgrady just wasnt tough enough to win big games. its like calling a rod over rated. everyone knows he is the best player in baseball, and he sucks in the playoffs. mcgrady performed well just didnt win. u cant be overrated and drop 32 a game. mcgrady just never had the killer instict. not overrated

QHaynes123
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................

Please forget responding to this post unless

you explain the definition of a top 5 player

who in you Opinion ( since this is mine) is overrated

Hood Kid
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not about t-mac just you

q call me a fool and crazy but if everyone agrees with me and no one with you,doesn't that make me right,i know that sounds strange to you but this post is not about t-mac so you can read it without prejudice and really figure it out,at least i hope so,that would be a first

QHaynes123
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you see

Im confused...ok Hood kid answer my question here

did I not give him credit? Read my other posts...i respect the all-nba awards and the all 1st nba awards and the scoring titles...

could you read this please?

I gonna say this for the last time....I dont question T-mac's talent but when you call him a top 5 player...I say that's overrating him. And with the amount of people saying he's a top 5 player : i believe hes the most overrated NBA player in my recent memory...I'll take back the ever part since everyone spazzed on it and I haven't live forever. Take it whatever way. You would take T-mac with a top 5 pick is your business I rather a guy like pierce and Allen and Dirk because I feel they have a little bit more of a "It" factor than T-mac

what im am i saying there?

im not being prejudice, i took back the ever part...but i still think hes overrated...sorry man...not beefing with you just disagreeing

Hood Kid
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find me someone who thinks

find me someone who thinks he's overrated or that he wasn't a top 5 player,honestly i don't think you can

QHaynes123
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ok then

Name me a playoff series he won

How many titles he got? How many players did he help in Orlando when he ask for a trade? Tell me : How much does he get paid? I believe Superstar Money?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080116182400AA8O6bT

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090130075205AAHUsdW

http://forum.sbrforum.com/nba-basketball-handicapping/130038-tracy-mcgra...

HE's never healthy and he was never a great shooter...hes very streaky and he dominated in the regular season and could never PUT A TEAM on his back ( which is always hurt) and win a playoff Series.

We can argue till were blue in the Face....T-mac lacks the it factor, never lead a team to ROUND 2 and is not a top 5 player...

alphamale310
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overrated

i said i was done, but i have to jump back in. i still have no idea what you mean by overrated. overrated is Adam Morrison, Harold Minor, Kwame Brown. QHAYNES, you've lost your damn mind. could Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Jamal Mashburn, Chris Webber, Mike Bibby, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, Ron Artest lead a team like T-MAC's Magic to the playoffs at all. You can say you have nothing against the man all you want, but you are being totally unreasonable. You put Mike Bibby on T-MACs magic and they are at the top of the lottery. I dont think one player on your list, with the possible exception of Paul Pierce could even get those teams to the playoffs, let alone win a series. like Hood Kid said, he was a consensus top 5 player in those Orlando years. what does he need to prove to you? the definition of a top 5 player: a player who the world considers a top 5 player! lol...what the hell do you mean the definition of a top 5 player? its all opinion based and if everyone is of the same opinion (except for you) then its fact. the only reason Jordan is considered the best ever is because the basketball world believes it to be so.

QHaynes123
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ill reason

Ok ill reason with you....some of those players we shocking...bibby and Mashburn and those guys ill give you that.

But your Dead Wrong on what Overrated means. Those guys you name were OVERHYPED IN COLLEGE AND HIGH SCHOOL AND BECAME BUSTS. or did you lose your damn mind?

TO be overrated...you got to be at least well at something. Uhh...not everyone thinks hes a top 5 player.

You guys must love T-mac alot because i dont see a top 5 player.

And a another thing...im tired of seeing...oh a 3-5 year strecth he was what ever

Jermaine O'neal a 2-4 year period was the best PF in the East...or dont you remember?
Jerry Stackhouse was good for a 2-5 year strecth
Ben Wallace was being called the best Defensive C since Russell for about a 3 year period.

End of discussion- Tracy McGrady is a top 10 Offensive player....not a top 5 OVERALL PLAYER.

i guess im gonna have to post this again :

I gonna say this for the last time....I dont question T-mac's talent but when you call him a top 5 player...I say that's overrating him. And with the amount of people saying he's a top 5 player : i believe hes the most overrated NBA player in my recent memory...I'll take back the ever part since everyone spazzed on it and I haven't live forever. Take it whatever way. You would take T-mac with a top 5 pick is your business I rather a guy like pierce and Allen and Dirk because I feel they have a little bit more of a "It" factor than T-mac

Stanford hoops
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naw he isnt overrated..at

naw he isnt overrated..at one point he was a top 5 player..not only fans thought so but so did coaches and players..its hard to jump on board with you when youre pretty muc the only person that agrees with youre point....iversons team was built around what iverson could do..he was the scorer and the rest were great role players..mcgrady didnt have that..yao was either never healthy or missed awhole lot of games the best team mcgrady has had is this years team because of yao only missing 5 games and the additions..and by youre logic yao ming is also not a top 5 center because he also never got out the first round...other than this year when he was healthy and had a healthy team with him....i also would like to see the stats of his teammates all those years in the playoffs because from what i see he did all he could do in the playoffs did anyone else step up and raise there average from the regular season or raise there game?..cuz you say stats dont lie so id like to see those stats....all these other guys you named leading there team had there teammates raise there level of play and im just wondering if tmacs teammates did the same

alphamale310
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QHAYNES

why are you tired of seeing 3-5 year stretch. isn't that what we are discussing? that he was a top 5 player during that period? you're right about J.O., Stack, and Big Ben. just as everyone in this chat, outside of you, is right about T-MAC. and yes, most everyone does think he was a top 5 player or havent you been reading our posts. in this forum alone there are 6 to your 1 who think he was a top 5 player. you disagree, and thats fine,but a players standing is a majority rules type of thing. if one guy thinks Jordan is overrated, that does not make him overrated. if the majority of basketball players, fans, and analysts think T-MAC was a top 5 player during that span, then he was. unless you want to go on a T-MAC smear campaign, which might interest you, there's really nothing you can do about it. since i lack understanding, please define overrated in this instance.

QHaynes123
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gotcha

yao is a top 5 center....The NBA doesnt have dominate Centers like they did in the 90's ( Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning)

McGrady is not a TOP 5 overall players to me...overall

i mean when you break down position-wise

he's a top 5 guard/forward hybrid..yea i would say he is

Top 5 player overall?...nah not to me

It's funny how you throw out opinions and people bug out....crazy

Stanford hoops
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top 5

of course hes not top 5 now no one is saying that but in his prime a coupel years ago he was..and there isnt really any arguement or proof that he wasnt..fans said it..his peers(playes) said it..commentators said it..everyone except you said it..im sorry but you have no leg to stand on other then youre opnion..im still waiting on the stats for his teammats during those playoffs run and see who stepped there game up during those times other than mcgrady

alphamale310
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QHAYNES

thats the thing Q. it's your opinion, but you say things like "end of discussion" and "he is not a top 5 player" as though you're right regardless, when clearly you are in the minority here. lets just state the facts. you don't think T-MAC is a top 5 player and you have your reasons. most people think he is top 5 and they have their reasons as well. agree to disagree...

Stanford hoops
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also by his logic we would

also by his logic we would have to include garnett in the overrated disscussion before he got good players around him...this is also like saying players arent that great because they didnt win a title...the fact is that mcgrady stepped up during the playoffs( like u said stats dont lie) and his teammates did not..ive looked over the series and the other teams players stepped up against houston but houston players didnt step up..go check it out..facts are facts

QHaynes123
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agree to disagree

Ok : Ill say my statement and you tell me what part you dont like

T-mac is a great talent

But when you say he's a top 5 overall player...i feel as if your overrated him due to his lack of success

I dont wanna kill T-mac but i feel if your being called a top 5 player- you should be able to put a team on your back and lead them to a series win.

I know its a Team game but T-mac has great stats and he tries his hardest but to me...i cannot call you a top 5 overall player because you offensively great. I dont think he is a top5 overall talent

I personally think its tougher for a big man to lead a team without a decent guard so no...KG is not overrated.

ok...tell me where you disagree...lets have a cool conversation about this?

QHaynes123
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and

another thing....i dont like when players have stretches of good season...if t-mac retired tonight....what is his legacy?

Stanford hoops
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if you dont have a

if you dont have a supportsing cast its very very hard to lead the team out of the first round...as you saw with d wade its damn near impossible...if wade never would have had shaq and never got out the first round i would still say he is a top 5 talent and he easily could have not gotten out of the first round if it wasnt for shaq and the other players he had around him mcgrady right now is not a top 5 talent but at that time he was..you can only do so much as a player if you dont have any help..esspecially if youre playing against a team that has a very good player and talent around them that steps up...youre success int he nba as a team depends on what youre teammates do if youre teammates dont step up then youre team goes no where..by youre logic granger wouldnt have made the all star team becasue he couldnt lead his TEAM to the playoffs and if you cant lead youre TEAM to the playoffs then you cant be one of the top 25 players in the nba

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grant hill

if Grant Hill had never had the foot and ankle problems we would not be having this conversation.

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