What are the Bulls gonna do now with Rose out for the year. Their core is ageing very fast. Deng is an OLD 29 and his contract expires this year, while Boozer is not a very solid player at this stage. Should they blow it up and try to add some younger pieces to help in the future. A deal with the Twolves does mae some sense. A derrick williams Alexsey Shved and a first for Deng makes some sense to me. it gives the bulls some solid players and a pick and pop with Rose and Williams in the future pretty nice. Then in the offseason they could Amnesty Boozer and have some cap space to make a play in free agency. Im not sure if thats quite enough for Deng but if they arent going to resign him it makes sense to get some value for him.
But the bulls front office face a big decision is it time to rebuild and try to make a team not so dependent on Rose. Right now the four players for sure in the bulls future to me are Rose, Butler, Mirotic, and Noah. Other than them I think they should be looking to make some deals.
They have to make a move, or moves. They are $8M over the cap and the prospect of keeping Deng at a discount is not likely. Zach Lowe over at Grantland suggested moving Deng and Taj Gibson. I agree.
They have to make some moves while the guys still have value...At this point, the Bulls can't move Carlos Boozer's contract but they can move Gibson and Deng and get something in exchange
This team is in a rough spot right now, and they'd be lucky to recover to their previous form where we thought they were the only challenge to the Heat... But what about a trade like this:
Goran Dragic (via Suns)
Luol Deng (via Bulls)
Taj Gibson (via Bulls)
Future draft picks from the Bulls to even it out
I know its not the best idea, but it's a trade that works, unloads cap space, and gives the Wolves a piece to be more competitive now while giving up pieces already on the trade block (but losing Barea isn't ideal for them). What do you guys think, would it be worth it for the teams involved?
Nikola Mirotic is going to replace Boozer. Mirotic is going to be a star. The Bulls have really no shot to win a title at all without a healthy Rose so it really depends on his health. They will be a solid team without Rose but will do nothing in the playoffs.
They really have to trade Deng considering the chances he comes back are very slim. The issue isn't that he is on the last year of his contract making 15 million as much as it will be the market for him. You would imagine only playoff contenders would deal for him on a half year rental basis. The only teams I could see with an interest in getting him would be the Clippers, Dallas, New Orleans or Minnesota. Of those teams I would say only Minnesota and New Orleans have the realistic pieces to get him. New Orleans would probably have to give up Eric Gordon though so I don't think that would happen.
If Rose and Gordon played together that could be the most fragile backcourt of all time.
Short term, they are going to have to go gunner hunting at a bad time. Rodrigue Beaubois is probably the most attractive option, but he is coming off wrist surgery. Leandro Barbosa has an NBA out clause, and even last year when given minutes and the ball could be functional in that role. Whether or not they decide to deal Deng or someone else, they need a level of functionality for the time being that simply isn't there without anyone who can take the ball and create a shot for himself when needed. Mike James might have a few games in him though at his age I don't think he is an every night option, but Marques Teague is fast but not a lot else which is highly problematic.
Longer term, breaking apart the team is tough. It is easy to say that they should break it all down, but reality has to come into play. If the desire is to break it up, they need to come up with a plan to fix it. They aren't going to commit to being bad in 2014-15, 2015-16, or 2016-17 (the life of Derrick Rose's contract). They have too committed to think they can throw away competitive years. Dealing Deng or allowing him to leave via free agency is only a good decision if they can make themselves better for those three years. Similarly, it only will make sense for them to amnesty Boozer (and remember that someone who have to sell Jerry Reinsdorf on paying Boozer to go play for San Antonio or Golden State) if they can avoid taking a step back. The reason that is important is because taking those two off the payroll doesn't give Chicago a ton of cap space. They will still have around $48 million on the books if you include Mirotic's cap hold. It isn't star money. Plus, Nikola Mirotic might not want to leave a Euro power to join a rebuilding team. He is not going to come over cheaply (rookie scale), and the adjustment period for accomplished players coming over from Europe can be daunting (see Teletovic, Datome, Shved, Antic, Calathes, Freeland, Claver, etc. It took Pekovic and Rubio time and Ilyasova had to go back to Europe and then come back before turning into the player he is today/was last year).
Where the knee injuries really come into play is that the Bulls could live with Noah and Taj playing together because Rose was able to take on 1 on 2 and 1 on 3s against everyone but Miami. Realistically, it is difficult to believe he will be able to be that player again. A clogged middle is now a luxury the Bulls cannot live with, and they still have the problem of not having a big man who can hang star numbers on the Heat when they go small. If they can make a move to address those problems, then certainly dealing Deng, Taj, and/or Noah should be considered. Dealing Luol Deng for another expiring contract and picking up a pick in the #20-#30 range does not help them. Dealing him for second chance prospects is far too risky. If that is the best they can do, they would probably be better served waiting until next summer and working a sign-and-trade. Trading Taj would be complicated because this is the first year of his new deal, which means the cap regulations of moving him work against the Bulls. I would not be opposed to dealing him, but it will be difficult to find a talent and money balance that the team would find acceptable.
in another post, i wrote the bulls should give noah and deng or gibson and there first round pick to get jabari parker.
s there future would look like
(? some second round center)
I think the bulls best option for an immediate reload would be to try to package deng and gibson somehow to get melo and try to convince him to stay after he opts out of the contract. Him and Drose could be a great pick n roll combo although they would be worse defensively with both deng and gibson out of the squad. Just a thought. I'm sure dolan isnt too excited to deal his best player but if the season goes into the gutter he might be willing to give in by the trade deadline if the bulls make the deal sweet enough. This may give em a burst this season as well. I know melo says he wants to stay in NY but chicago could really be his only shot at a title next year. The deal would prolly make the knicks better too overall... who thinks this is a terrible idea?
Luol Deng is in the final year of his deal. A team is not going to deal for him unless a) the new team agrees to an extension with him (under the table and Deng is going to want to be paid like a multiple time All-Star) b) a contending team thinks they are a wing away from a title and is willing to sell out some youth or future assets to go for it (who is in that boat?). The Knicks aren't going anywhere of significance as they are currently constructed nor in the future if Melo leaves.
The reality is more challenging than the narrative. If the Bulls wanted to make Noah available, even with his bad feet and limited offensive skills, I am confident there would be teams willing to deal. The problem then becomes that trading partners aren't dealing young big men, especially the skilled ones. I can't go back in time and make Nikola Vucevic available again nor can I get Marc Gasol to drop into the second round. In as much as everyone wants to heap praise on the 2014 draft class, nobody should hold the belief that the center crop is anywhere near ready for minutes on an NBA team that wants to contend. They can certainly get assets for Noah, but then how many will they need to expend to fill the hole in the middle? Let's say they get cap room, they make an offer for Greg Monroe, the Pistons will match it. They make an offer to Pau Gasol, he takes it back to the Lakers and they are going to up it. You can draft Joel Embiid or WCS, and still not know by the time they are up for an extension whether they be players of importance on a winner (see DeAndre, JaVale, Sanders, Favors, etc). I'm all for looking towards the future to address the long-term holes on the team, but only if they make the team better for the three years after this one.
The night he got hurt I feared the worst but told Bulls fans not worry because the future could still be bright for several reasons- 1. Boozer will most likely be gone after this year (amnesty), 2. Mirotic should replace him, (been rumored for years that this is the year for both of those things to happen). 3 Charlotte isn't that bad, (no reason they can't make the playoffs in a terrible East). Best scenario for Bulls would be for having Charlotte in the 11th spot, but I think they will make the playoffs. They could miss the playoffs but I think there is a greater possibility of the Cats doing better than the other teams in the East and getting in. 4. Bulls have looked pretty bad this year. Even though they will still win a fair amount of games without Rose, they will not be one of the top teams anymore. As a Bulls fan I am rooting for every loss. The only thing that matters to me now is improving our draft pick in an epic draft. Even if it is 15 and 24, I'll take it.
For the Bulls future, and after the news to day that Rose will miss the season, I still have the same thought process and only care about the draft now, but I wan't to take it a step further and trade whoever. Time to give up on this core and stop thinking that a Rose, espcially the Rose after these 2 injuries, can lead this group to a championship. This will probably not happen with the mentality of the front office and coaching staff. However, I think it is your only option. This team will not win. Period. It will be tough to trade Deng and Noah for their value, get younger, and match salaries, but it must be done, even if you don't get real value in return. I went through rosters and tried to find some trades and it is tough to find a trade that works for both teams.
Here are some ideas though:
Portland: Noah for Lopez and Leonard. or Taj Gibson for Robinson and Leonard.
Bulls move salary for youth/picks to make deal happen.
Lakers: Some type of deal involving Noah and/or Deng for Gasol/player/and picks.
I think both Portland and Lakers have already traded their 2014 first rounders but include future picks or whatever.
I couldn't really find any trades that really work. I tried to create something with OKC with perkins and Noah/Deng, Taj going to the Clippers to back up and deffensively support Blake and Jordan, Memphis and Deng, Houston and Deng or Taj, Minny giving Love- but that is just a dream, Toronto and Deng, ATL and Deng, and nothing worked. OKC wouldn't want to part with Adams would they? Ha. Oh, and Kirk for anyone.
Good luck to Gar/Pax. Going to be tough.
In the end all that matters is improving that draft pick. 11 and 15 could be the difference between Wayne Selden and Doug McDermott. Dougie Buckets could very well have a better NBA career than Selden but I am just saying. A few picks matters. 18 and 25 could be the difference bewteen Montrzel Harris and another big. Trade the core that isn't going to win. Start Marques Teague, give him the Thib's treatment and play him 42 minutes a game. Improve that draft pick.
I follow BTPH's point about not wanting the team to be awful in Rose's prime, but I think a few things need to be said here.
What matters is winning a championship. The team blew that chance by being cheap and not paying the luxury tax. Had they had a bench of Nate Robinson, Taj Gibson, and Omer Asik, they would have had a chance this year to win a title with Rose.
That team we watched for 11 games, no matter how rusty Rose was, was not a championship team. Their bench is awful, and they don't have a 2nd guy who can make a play.
There is a good chance the Bulls are going to let Deng go elsewhere at the end of the season, and amnesty Boozer. So why let the two of them play for your team this year and ruin its chances at bottoming out? Winning 39-43 games is absolutely pointless right now. These aren't players that are even in your future.
Also, looking at Taj Gibson and his contract, that is probably an asset you should consider trading too. He is overpaid, and again, if we are talking long term, you have Mirotic in the wings.
The best plan for the Bulls to me is doing everything in your power to be BAD this year. Not trading one guy, not getting slighly worse, getting BAD. I am fine with moving Deng, Boozer, and Gibson. Butler is hurt now, keep in him out as long as possible. If (or, realistically, when) Noah gets some kind of injury, just shut him down. Hinrich always gets hurt too.
If you are suddenly playing the likes of Dunleavy, Muhammad, Teague, and Snell major minutes, you could pretty quickly get terrible. They are lucky this happened early enough in the season that they can still be an awful team this year.
This is a lottery you want a ticket for. Looking at the Eastern conference, there is a good shot Charlotte will finish 11th or higher, and you very well may get there pick this year. And as the previous poster mentioned, maybe you get a late pick back for Deng in some kind of deal.
Now, you have one of the 5-6 worst records in the league, plus a pick in the 11-15 range, plus a pick in the 20-30 range in the best draft in years.
You have a ton of cap space, and still some appeal to play with Rose. This may be a pipedream, but the Knicks are doing little to comfort Melo's future, maybe a move to play with another "star" is what he would want. Combine Rose with a top pick from this draft, you have a pretty entice blueprint.
Then you add the potential of Mirotic, with Butler and Noah still there, and you have a younger team with a higher ceiling, and much less reliance on Rose to ever be as good as he used to be, because realistically that is in question right now.
And even if you whiff on Melo, you could still bring in some quality players who can positively impact your team.
Just my feeling on a path I'd love to see the team take.
Love that lineup of Teague, Snell, Dunleavy, Muhammad and whoever. Tankalicious.
This narrative about this being a "loaded draft" is starting to really bother me. Not all bums are going to go to heaven. It is a cheap story that sells hope and discounts the long line of awful drafting that take place in supposedly deep drafts and the years and years of teams remaining bad even when they hit on a pick in a bad draft. Yes, the Spurs did it perfectly with Tim Duncan. Yes, OKC has done wonderfully with Kevin Durant. How has Charlotte's rebuild gone? They aren't making the playoffs. They started 7-5 last year too. I can't remember who said it, but one color man said early in the season the bad teams don't know that they are bad yet and the good teams have to be prepared for that. Charlotte is still bad, and the season will show that much. I have liked a good number of the players Orlando has brought in, especially their skilled big men, but they are still bad and multiple years from being good. Minnesota is in year six post-Garnett. Sacramento is year seven or eight. Washington is in year seven. New Orleans hit the top pick in a supposedly deep draft and made themselves an expensive team by paying Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans, Ryan Anderson, and Jrue Holiday to play with him. They still stink, and are still multiple years away from being as good as they were when they started the rebuild. Prior to last season, Golden State made the playoffs once in eighteen years. I was often criticized for pointing out that Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap weren't hurting the Jazz by carrying their bad young perimeter players and developing young big men, but how can anyone get developed when they are this bad?
As far as these later picks are concerned, you have to convince that just because Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker are in a different echelon of prospects as Anthony Bennett and Victor Oladipo that these guys who returned to college like Rodney Hood, Mitch McGary, Montrezl Harrell, Sam Dekker, etc have gotten so much better this year. Nobody who returned was going to make that bad draft good. Marcus Smart is a different story, but a lot of guys who are regarded as being first round picks aren't changing the course of an NBA franchise. I do not see a center who deserves to be on an NBA court next year. The vast majority of the supposed one-and-done freshmen aren’t setting the college world on fire. Little acknowledged fact, the Kansas-Duke game was horribly played outside of Jabari Parker and this Kentucky team is not the 2012 one. I’m not watching a stagnant offense and poor team defense and thinking I’m breaking down a good NBA team to get my hands on them. Other than Julius Randle, who is a 6’8” power forward who will be going to a league where there are no shortage of guys bigger and stronger than him, none of them are playing up to their prep billing.
Let me make this clear, I am not opposed to dealing anyone if it means the Bulls will be better in 2015-17, but I see the reality of the situation. Taj is in the first year of his deal. It makes a trade difficult this year. Luol Deng is in the final year of his deal, and is only going to carry value to contenders which limits the possible returns. Push comes to shove, I would rather get NBA players in return than a 20-somthing pick. If the right offer comes, then do it. If not, they can still get a return next summer in a sign-and-trade should Deng leave. Dealing Joakim Noah would likely fetch a return from a playoff team, but I would feel much more comfortable going that route if I saw a ready-made center in this draft or skilled young centers who could be sent back in a deal. Dealing Noah, drafting a 7-foot long-shot with potential, and overpaying Marcin Gortat (or some other free agent center whose current team won't match or up any offer) is not getting the team any closer to a title. They don't have to become dumb simply because Derrick got hurt. They clearly have to make changes going forward, but dump everyone and worry about the reality of draft picks later is not a smart move. Memphis, with a lesser team than Chicago, saw Jerry West choose to get young that started with trading Shane Battier for Rudy Gay. The move was certainly a winner talent for talent, but the subsequent collapse of the team cost them Pau Gasol who was great then and great still. Boston broke apart its competitive team that made it as far as the ECF and surrounded Paul Pierce with a “younger team with a higher ceiling.” They went in the tank for the Oden-Durant super deep epic draft. If Danny Ainge didn’t change course and get lucky with Kevin McHale, they would have lost Paul Pierce. By the way, they didn’t collect busts: Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Kendrick Perkins, Ryan Gomes, Delonte West, and Leon Powe before his knees gave out. Even look back at the post-Jordan Bulls. You can look back at acquiring Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Jamal Crawford, and Brad Miller and argue they did about as good a job bringing in guys from those draft classes as anyone. They brought in three guys who made All-Star teams and another who won the sixth man of the year. They were the worst team in the NBA and going nowhere fast. I firmly believe the Bulls need to improve the skill level up front to get back to contender status and add another creator on the perimeter, but it can be done intelligently without risking contending over what is left of Derrick Rose’s contract.
It is a loaded draft though.
The narrative is correct. And I never said a thing about trading Noah and I don't think they should do so.
Their window has closed. And bringing the same team back next year minus Boozer isn't going to win them any titles from 2015-2017, that is certain.
They don't want to pay luxury tax, they have little to no flexibility with this roster.
You are also overrating a roster that hasn't done a damn thing without Derrick Rose. Beating that big pile of suck that is the Brooklyn Nets in 7 games isn't any accomplishment, especially when the two guys that bailed you out time and time again in that series aren't on the roster.
People don't realize that this Bulls team will not do as well as the team did last year. They have two assets I do like: Noah and Butler. But I don't see how trading the other guys is much of a long term subtraction. They need cap space and playing time space for Mirotic, they want cap for next summer to sign some new players (possibly non D League level bench players), and they could have a crack at a top 5 pick.
The lottery of this draft will probably dish out a lot of legitimate NBA players. I know the odds of them getting a top 3 pick is slim to none, but it is time to rebuild. And we have no idea how good some of those other players in this draft will be. We have seen Deng and Boozer. Yes they are established NBA players, but so what? The Brooklyn Nets have a bunch of established NBA players that doesn't mean a damn thing in this league.
You need STARS. You need CAP SPACE.
Deng for Willliams, Shved, Cunningham and a second round draft pick.
Chicago gets young players with potential and Minnesota bolsters their lineup. The wolves would have a top 15 player at every position.
2. New York
Boozer and Gibson for Stoudemire and Shumpert.
Chicago dumps contracts and getting Stoudemire will help their tanking as he won't play Kmuch. Also, if you let him rest and heel up, you could have a healthy Rose and Amare tandem. Getting a young defensive threat in Shumpert is also good for the Bulls. New York gets some big men who can actually play. Boozer can help with the scoring while Gibson adds energy and defense.
Deng and Gibson for Ariza, Vesely, Seraphin, Booker and Singleton.
Chicago gets some young guys with potential and every single one of these guys is expiring this year. The Wizards get a veteran presence at the three and provides stability while Porter learns the nba game. Gibson is an ideal third big who provides energy who can play with Nene or Gortat.
Or the Bulls could just make the playoffs and see what happens from there. Maybe they get hot again and win a round.
It usually takes a real long time to build up a playoff level. All you guys just want to chuck that team out the door so that maybe they get a top 10 draft pick who might pan out in three years. This is a totally stacked draft, but we don't even know for sure that any of the guys is a franchise player. Probably there are a few, but we need at least half of the college season to go by before we can be sure.
They have a solid team. They played well without Rose last season and they have other times he has been hurt. Jimmy Butler is a year better. No one on the team is truly old old. They need to basically replace Nate Robinson and Marco Bellini. That hardly seems insurmountable. How about a trade for Marshon Brooks? I'm sure he would be happy to take over shot creation duties. Finding a gunner 2G isn't that hard. The Nets can probably part with Jason Terry.