This topic contains 16 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar ghettosermon 13 years ago.

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  • #27197
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    jjonz
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    I have heard 3 MVP chants from opposing teams in ATL. This is a transplant City, where most people migrate from different cities to come live here. But still the fan base is terrible, who are the owners(The Spirit Group, is this a Church Affiliation). How do you rebuild around Horford? Smoov is there biggest trade option what can they get for him? IMO i think a One Tank job should be considered, providing they can find someone crazy enough to take on the worst contract in the history of the NBA (5yrs & 20mill per for a 30yr old ball-dominant SG)

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  • #512741
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    Malik-Universal
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    atlanta has good starters

    there bench is weak beside crawford

    they need to find a legit center… horford isnt really a center… that would move j smoove to the 3 causing match up problems for the defense

    and jeff teague needs to develop tho he had a really good game against the bulls yesterday

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  • #512744
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    nappy headed whitey

    I went to a Hawks vs Rockets game in 2009 when Yao was actually healthy and playing great. T-Mac was not playing, that was dissapointing but oh well. It was a great game, the atmosphere was bumpin’, there were FINE a$$ honeys everywhere, and I had great seats (13 rows back, $200 tickets me and my dad got for 50 each, gotta love scalpers). The game came down to the last possesion and Bibby hit a three to win it and the crowd went NUTS. Even I stood up and cheered even though I could care less about either team. It’s sad to see how that crowd has turned into a away teams homecourt basically but like you said, people move to Atlanta from everywhere. You also make great points. Horford is an All-Star type player but Joe, J-Smooth and Crawford dominate the ball and Al could easily be a 20/10 guy everynight (15/9 right now). Their current roster will never get past the second round and they could use a shakeup. Their best assests are J Smooth and Jeff Teague IMO, gotta keep Jeff though. I think there could be a really nice market for Josh. I could see Detroit, Memphis, Minnesota and other bottom dwellers looking at him. And man, how big of a crutch is Joe now? Unreal. Knicks lucked out not signing him. He played great when I saw him live, controlled his team, was the playmaker but he seems to have fallen off. He’s always been laid back but do you think he might be like "i got my money, I’m good"? Hinrich trade was a great move, even though giving up Crawford was probably not an easy decision. So the GM has shown he can make good moves, let’s see if he can work something out in the future

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  • #512751
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    jjonz
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    When the playoffs come will they be able to amp-up their already nonexistent crowd & lackluster players. I think they will shake up the team in the Summer.

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  • #512760
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    sammybuckeye13
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    If they want to win now, trade Smoove, Teague and first for Steve Nash and Channing Frye.

    Nash/JohnsonWilliams/Frye/Horford with Crawford and Hinrich of the bench.

     

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  • #512764
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    Ghost01
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    When you pay 120 million dollars to a boarderline All star, you arent going to be a serious contender for years to come…

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  • #512768
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    romeeezybaby
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    Pretty bad decision by management to sign him to $120 million contract. Then again, they should’ve had Deron Williams or Cp3 at PG with this group. I’m just saying…

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  • #512808
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    sheltwon3
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    I think moving Josh Smith for a big man makes a ton of sense.  Williams is a better 3 point shooter and seems at home at the 3.

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  • #512820
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    ghettosermon
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    As an avid Hawks fan there are so many troubling problems. I’d probably list he problems as such:

    1. Joe Johnson is just a "good" player but is a financial handicap: As a Hawks fan I appreciate what Joe Johnson has done for the organization. And he has been a deserving all star for the most part, but to get the kind of contract he got is downwright ludicrous. He can be a great #2 but he isn’t ever going to lead a team to a championship. His shooting has progressively gotten worst as his career has gone on to the point that he is no longer a shooter, he is just a scorer who needs to be ball dominant. His contract has made it so that even retaining our own players has become a problem. Unfortunately no one will take on Joe’s contract any time soon so for the time being he’s stuck as an overpaid "good" player.

    2. Marvin Williams is down right attrocious: I considered putting this as the #1 problem for the Hawks but because of the financial impact of Johnson’s contract I had to list him #1. At least Joe plays somewhat well with regularity, Marvin Williams however should not be a starter. How he managed to squeeze 40 mil from the Hawks pockets are beyond me. He’s fat, lazy, doesn’t move his feet on defense, and has horrible body language. His only strong trait is his mid range shooting but even that comes and goes. He’s basically useless on the court 75% of the time. He has no right starting on this team, however the options are fairly limited. At this point however I’d probably even want Damien Wilkins starting over him.

    3. Zero depth on the team: The depth on this team is horrible. Obviously Jamal Crawford is a top 6th man, but he plays so much he’s practically a starter. The bench is so thin especially in the front line or more alarming the wing position. Marvin Williams has literally no quality backup. Damien Wilkins has flashes but lets be honest he shouldn’t be one of your top bench men. The front court has no sort of diversity in depth. Yeah the Hawks have some big unskilled bodies, but they are all the same. From Zaza to Jason Collins all of our bigs provide the same thing. We still don’t have a backup PG as well. Jeff Teague is a pure scoring guard. He can’t and will never run a team full time. I’d even go as far as to say that Jordan Crawford has displayed more point guard skills than Teague in his time with the Wizards.

    4. Al Horford and Josh Smith play the same position: It is somewhat similar to the position the T’wolves were in, in which their two best players(Love and Al Jefferson) played the same position. There are several possible solutions, none of which are easy. First off people seem to think that Al Horford is the far more valuble player, but I’d tend to disagree. Yes Horford is the allstar player, but Josh Smith is more important to the success of the team. Any time Smoove is out the Hawks perform poorly. Horford is high motor and consistent but Josh Smith sparks this team. When he plays well the Hawks as a whole play well, when he’s struggling the whole team struggles. The same can’t be said for Joe Johnson or Horford. Their play does not always dictate the overall performance like Smith does. Josh Smith’s shot blocking is the difference maker, and the fact that he’s by far the best passer on the team. As long as Smith isn’t taking too many outside jumpers he really is the best player on the Hawks. As for a solution of course you could always trade Josh for a true 5 and slide Horford to the 4 where he fits naturally. Would I do that though, heck no! There is a complete lack of great centers in the NBA. I can’t see the Hawks getting an elite center for Josh so there is no point in trading your best asset just for the sake of fit. They are actually alright with Horford at the 5 against teams like Miami and the Knicks, they run into trouble against Orlando. The easier solution would be to find a top backup who can play the 5 when the Hawks have to match up as such. Overall however in today’s NBA having a true 5 isn’t a necessity against over 50% of the teams. They really should have made a run for Gortat’s services.

    5. Ownership is a mess and rarely make smart decisions: The Hawks ownership situation is an absolute mess which is why there is never any correlation between moves made. It’s almost as if every move made is a seperate entity with no regard for any sort of bigger picture. The Kirk Hinrich trade is a perfect example. Is Kirk Hinrich an improvement over Mike Bibby, sure he is defensively, but is he also worth giving up 2 first rounders essentially with the 2011 pick as well as Jordan Crawford, heck no. Watching Jordan Crawford score at a high rate with the Wizards is incredibly dissapointing knowing that he will be on his rookie scale contract for several more years, and could have been a low cost replacement for Jamal Crawford instead of again having to overpay a guy to stay.

    As long as Joe Johnson’s contract is a financial burder on this team, we will forever be locked into that 4-7 range without much upside for a title. Very similar to when the Wizards had the big 3 locked down long term with Jamison, Arenas, and Butler. They would always make the playoffs, but would never be serious playoff contenders. The only trade chip is Josh Smith but I wouldn’t trade him unless you get an absolutely unique talent.

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  • #512821
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    ghettosermon
    Participant

    Also Sheltwon I have to make a slight correction. It’s a popular misconception but Marvin Williams is not a better 3 point shooter than Josh Smith. Marvin Williams is a 30% 3 point shooter on 97 attempts. Josh Smith is a 33% 3 point shooter from a considerable more amount of 3 attempts (144 to be exact). Those numbers are pretty clear. Smith shoots more three’s and makes at a higher percentage. The fact is that Marvin Williams is a lazy bum who is useless as I said above 75% of the time. He’s living completely off of past hype. How he managed to steal 40 million from the Hawks after his rookie contract expired shocks me. If it weren’t for him going #2 overall, and all of the high school and college past hype, he would have been a goner a long time ago. He simply is not an NBA starter but the Hawks are trapped because no one will touch his contract. It’s sad to think but Damien Wilkins and Mo Evans when he was still a Hawk brought more consitently than Marvin rarely ever does.

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  • #512830
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    apb540
    Participant

    Maybe move J-Smith to the Clippers in some kind of a deal for Jordan or Kaman? 

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  • #512833
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    Next year Atlanta will have a core of players that looks like this under contract.Im gonna put them in the positions they should be in.

    PG-Krik Hinrich, Jeff Teague
    SG-Joe Johnson
    SF-Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
    PF-Al Horford
    C-Zaza Pachulia

    There will be many changes in Atlanta as far as role players go, and I wouldnt rule out trades including those seven players. Atlanta still has tremendous potential, but they need to make their move this offseason. If they are not in the market for a true C, whether it be Dalembert, Gasol, Nene, Jordan, they need to get another big capable of playing the position. The Clippers maybe interested in a Sign and Trade for Jordan if they cannot come to contract agreements, with them recieving Marvin Williams. I feel like Marvin would be a great compliment to Blake Griffin, and Eric Gordon and would flourish in LA.

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  • #512834
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    Apb you stole my idea, but Josh Smith is way too much for either player especially with Jordan possibly asking for too much anyways. Jordan isnt that good, and Kaman is injury prone. I thin Williams is worth it.

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  • #512835
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    ghettosermon
    Participant

    ^^ The clips have a ton of financial flexibility, I don’t see why they’d waste an additional 3 years/22 mil after this season on Marvin Williams. He’s not an above average starter and they just drafted Aminu in the lottery with hopes of him developing into that role. 3 years/22 mil, you could get a heck of a lot better player than Marvin Williams. In fact I’d rather pay that kind of money to even Deandre Jordan as big men are a premium in this league. Marvin Williams isn’t much different than the guys the clips already have like Gomes and Craig Smith.

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  • #512845
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    Good point ghettosermonm, at the same time thou I dontn see the reasoning behind keeping Kaman. He doesnt quite fit in with that teams athletisism and seems out of place. Maybe its time for him to go and Atlanta can make a package involving Williams. Contract for contract type thing. Like I said I think Wlliams would be alot better in LA.

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  • #512870
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    Hitster
    Participant

    There was talk about perhaps Cleveland looking at Marvin Williams a while back so could maybe a deal be built around say Hinrich, Baron Davis, Jamieson and Varejao etc. Atlanta could possibly send shorter contracts or ones paid over a greater time span but for a similar amount to Cleveland.

    With Cleveland perhaps looking to draft Kyrie Irving moving Baron Davis may be a sound move and maybe Williams would give them SF depth and also allow them to draft a younger big to partner Hickson if Varejao was moved.

    I kind of like Varejao for Williams as it gives Cleveland a good salary saving and Atlanta get an extra big to play alongside Horford. Cleveland are after draft picks so Atlanta could send them a future first rounder or maybe swap their first rounder for a Cleveland 2nd rounder one year. This gives Chris Grant at Cleveland another first rounder to play with and Atlanta get a Cleveland 2nd rounder which could be in 31 to 40 range so they can get someone decent there.

    I agree that Joe Johnson’s salary was high although he is a 5 time consectutive All Star, it was a big deal taking a player right into his mid 30’s. $16 million for a 29 year old Johnson now is reasonable but nearly $25 million for Joe Johnson pushing 35 in 2015/16 does not look good to me. I think that Atlanta were scared of losing Joe maybe to the Knicks given the D’Antoni link and just offered him too much!

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  • #512877
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    ghettosermon
    Participant

    I’ll be entirely honest, I do appreciate how much Joe has done for the franchise helping bring us back to relevancy, but I was kind of rooting for him to sign elsewhere this summer and that was even before I knew he would get max money. He’s a great player but he’s not a franchise player. IMO max contracts should be reserved for franchise players. I don’t think it’s reasonable for him to be paid twice as much as Smith and Horford when he isn’t that much durastically better than them. Not to mention he’s a lot older than them. It’s not really his play I’m frustrated with although he has had a bit of a down year, it’s his total lack of leadership. I understand he is low key and likes to lead by example but when you are making the most money in the NBA you had better be more hands on with your teammates. Joe just wants to blend in with everyone else. Unfortunately when you are making enough money to feed entire nations, you better step out of your comfort zone.

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