Brook Lopez withdraws from USA National Team
Yeah..its funny ..i really dont know whut they're looking for when they are selecting players..Brook is a top 5 center in the Nba..but McGee out played him in Vegas.But he got cut..And Brook remained even though he played poorly in camp...Brook did play well in the split squad game....
because that was a open gym scrimmage. thats what athletes excell it. no mcgee shouldnt have made it over him. once the real games start there wont be alot of fast breaks and there will be alot of zone. lopez games is wayyyyy more better for fiba ball then mcgees. the onyl people who took alot of stok int he scrimmage is some of the fans. the players and coachs said it was just open gym for the fans amusement thats why you didnt see any zone even though thats all they are gonna face during the worlds
How so? He doesn't block shots or score/move without the ball better than McGee. Lopez isn't that good a fit in FIBA ball actually. At least not like McGee and Chandler. He's better than both in the NBA, but in FIBA he doesn't move without the ball or provide the type of athleticism to be as effective as the guys like Chandler and McGee who can score without plays being run for them much, if at all.
because hesa big body and skilled. skills is a much better fit in fiba then being athletic. how you figure he doesnt score better then mcgee?. overseas has always been wayyy more about skills then being a athlete. especially when dealing with big men.
any euro will tell you if you cant play in the half court and dont have post moves as a big man then you wont be very effective. mcgees game is built for fast breaks and running. fiba basketball is about half court and set plays so how do you figure mcgees game is better for fiba? plus the fact that hes very foul prone and goes of his fit on just about evert pump fake which euro guys are great at.
another reason big athletic men struggle in fiba/overseas is because they are so used to just out jumping that they dont box out. euro bigs box out just about every single time. mcgee isnt a scorer anyway though so he wont be any option what so ever on offense but it is a good pick up for help side shot blocking. obvious coach k knew this as well hence why mcgee was cut in the first place
He's more skilled, but he isn't better at scoring off the ball than McGee is. Lopez to me isn't a better fit than Chandler or McGee, because Lopez would need actual post feeds and plays run for him to score, and he was outplayed in the practice sessions and in the scrimmage head-to-head against McGee and Chandler. McGee can score from offensive rebounds better than Lopez, and he's just as good a finisher in the pick and roll. I think McGee can function as a zone-buster too, his mid-range game is decent. Add in the fact that McGee is a better shot-blocker and I think he's an overall better fit. Lopez has a better back to basket game offensively, but his post defense and rebounding are only mediocre. Especially in comparison to Chandler and McGee.
The only reason Coach K picked Lopez over McGee was because he was a better compliment to Chandler (McGee and Chandler play the same way), I doubt it was because he outplayed him because in every practice or scrimmage that was on TV Lopez looked like the 3rd best C out there.
no it was because lopez skill set fits better for fiba as well as probably getting out played in practice. thats pretty much what happens if you are out played in practice'
what proof is there that mcgee is better at just about anything other then being more athletic then lopez? did i miss the past 3 nba seasons or something becaus eif im not mistaken mcgee is average
McGee is better scoring off of offensive rebounds. There is no real statistical proof (if that's what you're looking for) other than what everyone saw in the practice and scrimmage and from comparison watching them play, but I think McGee is a bigger factor on the offensive glass and scoring without the ball than Lopez is. But hey, this doesn't matter now. I think McGee will prove to be a good fit for the team, Lopez isn't that good a fit in FIBA than McGee IMO. There's no point in arguing this further LOL, since it's hypothetical.
in international games you need a good balance of great shooters and dominate post players to dump the ball inside to..in 2004 they had good post players like amare & duncan..but no outside shooters..teams played zone on them..thats why they lost..brook would've been a good fit..but he would've had problems guarding big men that hang out on the perimeter that loves shooting outside..i'm glad the team has guys like durant & rudy gay who have great length.and can block shots...
from watching him play i dont see it?..you cant really be serious by saying going from the scrimmage?..for one its open gym. two lopez played like 10 min because of recovery from mono. have you ever had mono?...i havnt but i had a teammate who did and comiong back from that is no joke. on top of all that you just discount both of there careers and go by a scrimmage?..i mean really?
hell we should say sebastian telfair is a better passer then rose since he out passed him and played him last year at hoops the gym in there pick up game
its not even close to compare lopez and mcgee in scoring or rebounding because they arent comparable. mcgee just isnt that good at either at this point. congeko said as much in not so many words after they cut him when he was saying how he's just a babe as far as his game but has a bright future
youre absolutly right @rudeboy..you dont win if you dont have any type of post presence on offens which team usa will be lacking now. you cant dump the ball into chandler or mcgee and thats something they are gonna need because of the zones and half court game teams will be making them play. i hope we still win but our chances just got lower
@stanford hoops
I'm going by the practice and the scrimmage. Those 2 things and looking at what both comparatively bring to the table.
Nobody will confuse Sebastian Telfair with Derrick Rose either. Not exactly certain why that was brought up.
I'm not discounting anyone's career really,. I've said already Lopez was a better NBA player. But FIBA isn't the NBA. I personally feel that McGee was a better fit from the start. Tyson Chandler is an average NBA player at best, but he's the best fit out of the other 2 guys. That goes to show you right there that this is a different ball game.
Lopez is a better pure post scorer than McGee, but I never disputed that. I think McGee is more effective without the ball and is a better and more versatile defender (post, perimeter, pick and roll).
@ llperez
Brook Lopez isn't a physical presence on both ends though. He's an offensive player. He's really not a good defensive player. McGee and Chandler are both better on that end
JaVale McGee isn't a better player than Brook Lopez in any system or style of play. He isn't.
The WCs outlook isn't very good. It is going to be on Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose to play out of their minds for them to get the gold. I'm not crazy about the Tyson Chandler and Kevin Love combo at the center spot.
thats the thing though..in fiba you need to be more skilled and being a athletic big man isnt as much of a pluse as it is in the nba. a player who isnt very skilled on offense and relies on there athletic ability isnt as vaulble as a big man who has post moves and can score int he half court. mcgee is less of a factor in fiba setting then he would be in the nba.
Again pick and roll isnt a factor when a team isnt gonna play you in a man to man. mcgee isnt even a very good defender. hes athletic but its not hard for a skilled big man to score on him. hes actually below average on defense because hes foul prone( average to belwo average defensive basketball IQ)
I agree to be honest he still will probably get cut
i forgot about kevin love. his game is built for fiba basketball, strong big who can pass,rebound, and shoot. his outlet passing will be a bigger key then people think because those can start a fast break
i think the mcgee hype is slowly getting out of countrol becaus eof what he did in summer leauge which he should do being a 2 year nba vet as well as athletic. maybe 2 percent of the big men out there are even gonna be average rotational players in the nba
Honestly Lopez is not even that good. His numbers are inflated offensively because he "carried" the Nets offense. Eduardo Najara can average 13-14 ppg on one of the worst teams in the history of the NBA as the main focus of the offense. He wasn;t efficient and shot under 50% (awful for a center). He averages under 9 rebounds per 36 minutes which is also awful for a center. He is unathletic, slow and honestly gets frustrated too quickly and seems like a crybaby. He is a top 10 center in the NBA, but very overrated. I think a healthy robin puts up similar numbers as the a 12 win franchise center (less pts, more rebounds and blocks)
was not aware defense was gonna be played. But as mediocre as love is on defense, his hustle on the boards and ability to knock down 3's is very valuable. He is a smart defender and usually gets to the right spot, just doesnt have the athleiticsm to make plays. But fiba relies less on athleticism and he isnt gonna face anything more athletic then he already faces on a daily basis in the nba.
List of NBA centers to average 5 made FTs per game:
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
He gets to the line and makes them.
Top offensive rebounding centers
Brendan Haywood 3.6
Ben Wallace 3.6
Dwight Howard 3.5
Joakim Noah 3.4
Marcus Camby 3.4
Brook Lopez 3.3
He was also top ten in blocked shots, and shot 49.9 percent from the floor. How awful it is that a center shoots so poorly from the floor. He was only better than Al Jefferson, Chris Kaman, Roy Hibbert, Marreese Speights, Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Brad Miller, and Zydrunas Ilguaskas. He was also all of one percentage point worse than JaVale McGee and Joakim Noah, despite the fact that neither of those two ever drew a double team.
Offensive rebounds increase on a poor shooting team wit no PF, which is exactly what the Nets were. To say he's a top 5 offensive rebounder is very skewed because only David Lee played more minutes per game than him at the Center position the past season. He is actually 27th in grabbing the available rebounds by percentage among qualified centers.
Under 50 percent shooting for a center is very poor.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/sort/tr...
for non insiders Brooks true shooting percentage (his free throw shooting helps that out A LOT) is 22nd out of the 50 qualified Centers.
Noah is an awful shooter, shooting is not his strong suit, he gets all the hype for hustle, defense and rebounds so comparing his shooting to Noah's (who is still better!!!) is silly.
Lopez grabs under 10 percent of available offensive rebounds, compared to 13% by Noah. Lopez grabs 17.5% of defensive rebounds, compared to 27.6% by Noah.
And Noah still shoots slightly better than him....
He better be in top 10 in blocks, how many 7 footers play almost 40 minutes a game???
Not saying he's awful, just very very very overrated.
hes a top 10 center, arguably top 5. He's still young, could have been a senior in collge last season. He has good hands and makes strong moves and can face up. Not the greatest lateral quickness which occasionally hurts him chasing down rebounds. But how many centers draw double teams? Also, his team sucked so bad last year he wasnt getting a lot of garbage buckets off his teammates drawing in defenders. He had to work for his points and simply kicking it out wasnt always an option or in the teams best interest hence the fg% not being great.
You can accuse me of being an Atlanta homer, but as much as I love Javale Mcgee and think he's in for a breakout season he hasn't proven anything in the NBA, and because of that I am baffled how he gets invited yet a guy like Josh Smith even with all the injuries and drop outs isn't invited despite playing well in the Team USA camp last summer. Javale has potential to be a good shot blocker and rebounder, Smith has already proven to be an elite shot blocker and pretty good rebounder. I mean Josh Smith is the youngest player ever to 500+1000 blocks. It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't want an elite shot blocker like Smith. He has the build to play Center in FIBA. He also at this point shows a lot more solid post game than Mcgee. Smith since giving up the 3 point shot improved his field goal percentage last year to over 50%. Smith averaged almost 16 ppg as only the 3rd and sometimes 4th offensive option. Also overlooked is his underrated passing ability, at the PF spot you can run things through him in the high post. He averaged 4.2 apg last year. That's extremely impressive for a guy who only gets touches in the paint, in comparison a ball dominant guard like OJ Mayo only averaged 3 apg. People still view Josh Smith as that wing who came out of high school but his body is completely changed. He's 6-9" 245, he's a legit PF now and IMO an elite world class athlete. I really wish they'd give him an invite. I'd also argue that Brendan Haywood might deserve a look because of his offensive rebounding and shot blocking, not to mention it would be beneficial for him and Chandler to work together. With all this said I do feel good for Mcgee if he makes the team, the experience will give him super confidence for the upcoming season. I just think that Team USA is not fully considering all their options. Paul Milsap and even Taj Gibson should have at least gotten consideration with their rebounding and post defense.
At what point did being on the floor become a flaw. You want to know why most centers don't play 36 minutes per game, because they can't. They have too many limitations. They foul people (Oden and Brockman), they can't guard anyone (Love), and they just aren't that good (Dalembert).
There is a world of difference in what a post scorer will shoot from the field and someone who lives off put backs. Lopez is one of the best post scorers in the league, and gets as much if not more attention when he has the ball in the post than other centers in the league. It also impact the possibility of him getting offensive rebounds, because he isn't off the ball as often as a guy like Noah making Lopez's number more impressive. It also is why the whole 50 percent argument blows. Post scoring centers take more difficult attempts than the scrappy unskilled centers, which is why their percentages are lower. He isn't Shaq or Howard where he simply abuses people physically. He has to beat them with skills, and because the Nets blow he often has to beat two or three guys. If you want to talk numbers, at least have the basic statistical understanding of not trying to normalize non-normal statistics.
loves defense would be alot better in fiba because he wont have to deal with the athletes that he does in the nba.
i agree@iggy loves game fits just about any system. even the suns because of his shooting and outlet passing,
also agree that josh smith should be there over mcgee but i think him not being there has to do with character issues and attitude
and argueing about brooks being overrated is pointless@bothteamsplay hard. we all know hes not overrated
heres a question though. if youre team is that bad and youre the main offensive weapon on youre team doesnt it stand to reason that you have to deal with better defense then a guy on a good team since they can double and triple team you without fear of youre teammates doing much?
I agree he is a solid center, but still say he is overrated.
I have watched plenty of Net games and the many blowout games they were a part of Lopez played till the last whistle. I cannot tell you how many times the guy padded his stats in the 4th quarter against bench players after being non existant the 3 quarters when the game mattered. Also check how he plays against any of the solid centers in the league. Anybody with similar size abuses him. Howard, Hibbert, Bogut all the other young 7 footers give this guy fits and lead shim to take ugly fade aways and up and under moves. With what Nets claim to be an All Star PG, he should not shoot so poorly he has PLENTY of dunks and put backs. The fact that he is 2 inches taller than the average Eastern conference center and can't "dominate" in the paint is actually pretty sad. His 13.5 rebound rate is 40TH for centers!!!!!! so to call him a solid rebound is truly truly an overstatement, he rebounds as well as David Anderson (the white guy who played for the Rockets).
The fact that he played more minutes is because the team sucked, he wouldn't play 37 minutes a game on most teams. If you don;t think his numbers go down and efficiency goes up on a better team I dont know what to tell you. You can't sit here and tell me he will be a 20 and 10 guy on a competitive playoff team, because he wont....
To say he didn't get putbacks and tip ins and garbage buckets is incorrect as well. The Nets shot a league worst 42.9% from the field (average about 46%), how can you say that the 7 footer and most nights by far the tallest player on the court not benefit with offensive rebounds and putbacks when his team shoots bricks?
"loves defense would be alot better in fiba because he wont have to deal with the athletes that he does in the nba."
Group play
Croatia- Tomic, Barac, Loncar, Radocevic, and Banic. NBA prospects or former NBA prospects.
Brazil- Splitter, Nene, Varejao. NBA frontcourt in skills, length, and athleticism.
Slovenia- Brezec, Slokar, Vidmar, Begic, and Zupan. NBA size.
Knockout round
France- Noah, Diaw, Mahinmi, Ajinca, Traore. NBA players.
Argentina- Oberto, Scola, Nocioni, and Gutierrez. Only Gutierrez isn't a long-time NBA guy.
Spain- Marc Gasol, Garbajosa, Claver, Aguilar, and Reyes. NBA guys or NBA picks.
Greece- Schortsanitis, Bouroussis, Printezis, Mavrokefaldis, and Fotsis. Possibly the best collection of big men not in the NBA.
Russia- Kaun, Khryapa, Mozgov, and Vorontsevich. Interesting team because it is basically CSKA Moscow and Mozgov. They are big, athletic, and obviously know how to play together.
Turkey- Asik, Erden, Turkoglu, and Ilyasova. NBA guys.
The only athletic players on those lists are Illyasova, Claver, and Diaw. Turkoglu is a 3 position guy with perimeter tools. And Kevin Durant would defend all of them if they were to play PF. Love can hold his own in spot time (which he'll be playing) against any of the other players, and if he can't Chandler or McGee can.
and how are you going to bring up that Lopez shoots as good as Noah, and when I use it against you have the nevve to tell me that I don't know how to look at NBA stats and that Noah and Brook should never be compared? Mad cuz im right??
and of course STANFORDhoops doesn't think he's overrated, it must be true then.
Post scorers like Jefferson, Lopez, Kaman, and Z. Randolph have a much greater degree of difficulty in their shot attempts than those who live off dump offs and put backs. All I'm pointing out is that he is not only at a perfectly acceptable rate for a post scorer, but also right there with the scrappers who do not bring the same abilities to the table as Lopez.
yeah those list of players arent elite. love shouldnt have a problem.
As far as having so many pg. pg is key in fiba basketbal..pg,bigs(not undersized) and shooters. you need different type of pg for the different looks that teams will give you. a defensive pg a shooting one and slahing one etc. the roster still isnt cut all the way down so one of the pg prob will be cut
i doubt mcgee makes it between chandler,odom,love,green
Jeff Green won't make the team. It'd be unbelievably crazily surprised if he does.
I see it as:
PG: Chauncey Billups, Derrick Rose, Rajon Rondo
SG: Andre Iguodala, Stephen Curry, Eric Gordon
SF: Kevin Durant, Rudy Gay
PF: Lamar Odom, Kevin Love
C: Tyson Chandler, Javale McGee
from what ive read green is a good bet to make the team., reason why is because his game fits fiba basketball just like odom. a tall player that can play the three or four and hit threes in a zone. coach k is said to be very high on him and i dont blame them. this is a reason odom is also vaulable
if you have a 6'9 guy who can play the four and the three and can spread a defense with his shooting is very very vaulable in erup basketball because they play alot of zones. this is why alot of players who are athletic and cant really shoot dont do so well over there.
if green couldnt shoot i think he would be cut but since he can and odom's shot isnt that great then he has a good chances of making the team. i still dont see them winning gold though and i hope im wrong but the worlds is where the other countries play there best. more so then the olympics. This is the other countries true olympics
ESPN.COM is reporting that New Jersey Nets center Brook Lopez has informed USA Basketball Officials that he feels he's not in good enuff condition to participate in Training Camp next week in New York ..Lopez played poorly in Las Vegas after battling with a recovering battle Mono ..Javale McGee 1 of 4 players that were cut last week will take his place.....