[ilmagoParticipant]

So Nash is going to LA after all. As a Raptors fan, who is supporting the team since those old times when Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter were in Canada, can I say I am F***ING fed up with Brian Colangelo and his complete lack of knowledge of what managing an NBA roster means. Let me go back in the years:

a) As soon as he became GM for the Raptors he traded away Villanueva, because he hinderedthe development of Chris Bosh, too bad he drafted Andrea Bargnani with the first pick a month later;

b) The O’Neal trade. We gave up $ 15 M in expiring deals PLUS Hibbert. Do I have to mention that he is an All-Star now and we suck?

c) Hedo Turkoglu. 5 years, $ 53 M. Seriously.

d) The Gerald Wallace – TJ Ford trade. We were offered this trade and he turned it down, because of the length of the contracts! 4 years later Wallace signed a big deal, TJ Ford retired. (Couldn’t find a better link, we are talking about 2008..) http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=819175

e) The Matt Barnes deal. He agreed with Matt Barnes then realized we didn’t have any cap room to do that. Seriously, it happened.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5393637

f) Chris Bosh leaving for the Heat. In case you forgot, he failed to trade him or do anything. We got a first round pick that was used to acquire James Johnson.

g) BC refused Beasley in the Heat trade (2 years $ 11 M), to sign Amir Johnson a week later ( 5 years, $ 35M). If you are willing to take on a risk on an athletic guy who has yet to prove how much is worth, I say, get the cheapest deal and save cap room. NOPE! I am not saying that Beasley would have been a great acquisition. I am just making a case for the opportunity turned down. And Amir’s contract is absolutely untradeable now.

h) He signed Kleiza to another untradeable deal and now he barely plays.

i) Substituted coach of the Year Sam Mitchell (who was 8-9 when he got fired) with Jay Triano (finished the season 33-49) and sticked with the latter way too long. Triano’s defense was absolutely the worst ever seen.

j) Went all in to sign Steve Nash. He even signed Landry Fields to a terrible contract, just to take the Knicks out of competition, BUT Steve Nash is a Laker now…. We have 4 SGs (Demar DeRozan, Terrence Ross, Gary Forbes, Landry fields) all on long term deals though. Not sure if there’s any need to have a 5th maybe.

This was a (too) long post, just to say, he doomed the franchise for the past 6 years. I seriously would rather see Kahn managing the Raptrors. KAHN!!!!!!! It’s about time Brian Colangelo gets fired. Amen.

[Tight ButtholeParticipant]

This was actually really insightful. I know most fans of their teams can pick apart bad moves made by management, which is usually in hindsight. But a lot of those moves, or lack thereof, are pretty bad. I knew fans of Toronto have been crying for Colangelo to get axed, but I never understood why. This pretty much clears that up. I feel your pain and I dont see the reason in keeping him around with that organization any longer.

[NYK2010Participant]

Bosh and Bargnani together never worked you can’t have 2 guys who play similar positions and both like to take perimeter shots.  Should’ve traded one for sure for a legit Center that would’ve made more sense. 

The Jermaine O’Neal trade was awful blowing so much cap room and Hibbert yikes that one stings.

Hedo Turkoglu the main problem I have with that is 5 years at most he should’ve gotten a 3 yrs contract with a team option for a 4th year.  It was obvious he was never going to live up to that big contract.

 The Wallace for Ford trade probably is the worst I never liked Ford’s game.  Meanwhile Wallace an athletic forward who played solid defense and could score too.

Matt Barnes deal that wasn’t a big loss he’s just a bench player really

Not trading Chris Bosh was stupid he could’ve gotten a yong player back from a team who traded for him as a rental even.  

Refusing Beasley for Amir Johnson I guess he didn’t want to deal with the headache that is Michael Beasley.  Amir Johnson is a decent player but doesn’t have the talent that Beasley does and obviously the diff. in contracts doesn’t help Colangelo’s choice.

Kleiza is a decent 6th man but I mean how many bigs that shoot jump shots do you need it doesn’t make sense.

I don’t like how they passed on Andre Drummond in the draft to take Terrence Ross.  I’m all for taking a sure thing over a big man but this isn’t one of those cases.  Going after Nash made no sense where are the scorers on the team besides Bargnani you don’t bring in a 38 year old PG when you have a bunch of young unproven players.  They don’t have a legit Center and Amir, Bargnani, Davis are not Centers really.  You won’t win in this league w/out a Center unless you have elite wing players who play defense and score which they obviously don’t.

[LerinErinParticipant]

 They insisted Bragnani was fantastic and clearly  a fantastic pick. they insisted AB was a  great passer and  rebounder. A 7 footer with a career 4.9rpg and 1.3 apg. How cannas even footer who starts rebound that poorly?

 

Am probably gonna get all kind of negatives but to the Raptors went way overboard on international players. 

[Prince of BballParticipant]

I used to be BC biggest supporter but now I just don’t know anymore…He lost out on Nash and Lin and somewhere in spain Jose must be venting over sourgrapes…Man, if he continues to mess up like he has he will be working at a KFC by Sunday.

[d-ravParticipant]

For Raptors (and Brian Colangelo’s) sake, their incoming Center had better be "THE REAL DEAL".

[Toronto16Participant]

 Look on the bright side my fellow Raptor followers, this is the last season of Colangelo.  The tears are over!

[TyroberParticipant]

Definitely overpaid for Fields and then drafted Ross as well. Strange moves…..

[Brew Meister SmithParticipant]

Overpaid for Fields…yes – But it was a hardball gamble to screw with the Knicks – I love the Chutzpah!

We won’t know about Ross right away.  He really seems to fit with where the team is going.  Whether he was the best player available at 8 who knows.  Keep in mind TOs top three choices were already gone.  Any # 8 pick was a step down from # 7.

[Brew Meister SmithParticipant]

I think everyone should just calm down a little here.  In the end the Raptors still made the biggest offer to Nash.  He chose the Lakers to win now.  That was HIS choice.  The only other thing BC could have offered was a sign and trade deal to the suns to appease Nash’s loyalty to them.  A) He still may not have come to TO  B) Nash has a few seasons left and though I really wanted him in Toronto, he in not the savior of the universe.  Not worth trading away the future just to make the playoffs for a couple of seasons and not challenging for a championship.

I’ll probably get ripped by all the Colagelo haters out there but this was Nash wanting to go to L.A.  Has nothing to do with BC.  If anything, Nash’s strong relationship with Colangelo and Triano likely worked heavily in Toronto’s favor here. 

Get over it.

And who the hell thinks getting rid of Charlie V wasn’t awesome.  That guy is a lazy bastard and he stinks.

[ilmagoParticipant]

I am not saying getting Rid of Charlie V was a bad move, but being a coherent GM or person, means that once you understand you have a problem, which is in our case, having two young PFs to develop, you stick with the plan, you don’t get rid of the problem and suddendly find yourself in the same situation again, just worse this time.

And my point with Nash is not that he didn’t sign. We have a screwed up team full of long term bad contracts. I wish he showed us he had a plan for once and not just trying to put random pieces together hoping some white magic makes everything work out perfectly. It’s not like that.

I completely agree with you on not being worth trading all our future away for a playoff run, but seriously, that’s what he did!! Do you realize that in 2 seasons we will have approx $ 33 M committed to 4 players being: Bargnani, Amir Johnson, Kleiza, Landry Fields. In other words these four guys will make almost as much as Lebron and Wade earned this season. So, my opinion is Brian Colangelo already traded away the future of this franchise. 

I just hope he gets fired. That’s all

[Brew Meister SmithParticipant]

Draft year 2006 it was Bargnani / Aldridge / or Brandon Roy’s knees. And Bargnani is more versatile than Aldrige (not saying better).

I would not argue that those contracts are high, but they were signed in “yesterday’s” money, not under the new CBA. All teams have some of those contracts. Fields was overpaid as a pawn to land Nash. I can’t argue with that unless Nash was not worth it in the first place.

Every GM makes moves that don’t work – Danny Ainge? They still trust him in Boston.

How about Colangelo flipping the sink hole of Hedo’s contract into Leandro Barbosa? Masterfull.

Lots of people are going to disagree with me on Raptors management. There are a lot of teams with much much worse. I generally like where things are going. Bosh leaving was huge for Toronto, and is now allowing BC to organize a system not centered around 1 players ego.

I was as excited about Nash as anyone. But was it for sentimentality, or was it actually a good basketball move? It was definately against the grain of the new Raptors system.

[joecheck88Participant]

 Am I the only one that thinks Landry Fields is a 3. He played SG in NY because of Melo but he isn’t weak and is like 6’8" I think he can play the 3 with Derozan. 

[Brew Meister SmithParticipant]

I think Fields is more of a 3 three than either Ross or Derozen. But keep in mind casey’s system see’s players as wings / scorers / shooters / slashers / stoppers etc. 2 or 3 is somewhat irrelevant here. As long as he can defend at the 3 possition he can play it. I actually think Fields will fit in really well with what Toronto is doing.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I kid I kid. Come on Toronto fans, if you want to dry your tears, you can look to Jonas Sabonis having only 7 fouls in 32 minutes in Olympic Qualifying games against power houses Venezuela and Nigeria and see brighter days ahead. Wait, no, that won’t do it. Ummm… Demar DeRozan’s improved shooti… no…  the steal that was drafting Solomon Alab… no… grabbing a physical marvel in Andre Drum…. tisk sorry… ooooohhhhhh this is a tough one…

It could be worse. BC could have committed to offer Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin a combined $55 million.

[er1csh3nParticipant]

 a) Villanueva was traded for TJ Ford, Bryan was rebuilding his roster, Charlie wasn’t even his pick and BC really liked(and EVERYONE ELSE) liked the idea of a Ford/Calderon PG Tandem, don’t forget that year we won the Atlantic Division and Bargnani was a 7 footer, BC probably thought he was a PF/C and he was barely taking away minutes from Bosh anyways. The decision was between Bargs or LA, and obviously BC did not like the latter, the 2006 draft was extremely weak, but picking Bargs was not a good or bad move.

b) Why wouldn’t he trade for O’Neal, Jermaine was ONE season removed from averaging 20/10/3/3 for TJ Ford who was expendable due to the excellent play of Calderon and FYI the Pacers wanted Hibbert, not us, for all we know we could have drafted someone else, most likely a scrub, to me a 20/10 bigman for TJ and a first rounder seemed like a steal.

c) Why did we sign Turk, he was the best FA at the time, we were competing, and this was Bosh’s final year, BC wanted to retain Bosh, so he reworked his roster, signed the best FA in that year and wanted to compete. Although it didn’t work out well, we traded Turk for an expiring Barbosa, maybe you should hate on the Suns on that part instead.

d) The posters even said Crash had concussion issues, if you didn’t know concussions are very serious, I wouldn’t want to trade for a guy who plays wrecklessly and gets injured all the time. Again at the time, The O’Neal deal was pretty hard not to like. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can say BC made all the stupid deals he did, but do you have proof you didn’t like any of them?

e) I don’t have a counter argument for this, I don’t even know why he tried to sign Barnes as we were in a rebuilding mode. +1 for you

f) No one knew that Chris Bosh was going to be a megadouche and pull a Lebron before Lebron even pulled the Decision, but we had no leverage, either way Chris Bosh made hints he was going to resign with us, but suddenly decides to sign with the Heat, he could have signed with the Heat as a FA but BC was able to pull a S&T which gave us back our pick(Valanciunas) and their own first rounder which turned into JJ.

g) The Beasley issue, I think was more likely because of Beasley’s attitude problem and marijuana incident. I don’t know why you would try to trade for someone who could be a cancer to the locker room, but again hindsight is 20/20 who would have thought Beasley wouldn’t turn into a mega pothead.

h) Kleiza was injured alot, but when he did play healthy, he had a pretty significant impact, look at what he’s doing in the Olympic qualifier right now.

i) Mitchell was going to get fired anyways, I read(forget source) that Mitchell was going to get fired earlier, but he won CotY and you usually don’t fire the CotY. The 8-9 record was probably an excuse to fire Mitchell, but if Mitchell was such a good coach, where the F is he now?

j) Derozan SG/SF, Ross SG/SF, Gary Forbes is a mega scrub who probably will rarely play and he’s on a minimum deal for 1.5 mil/3 years, Landry is a 6’7 SG/SF, all three can play SF and the minutes would spread out evenly, Landry is not overpaid, especially using analytics he is worth 4 wins a year, and one win=3 mil, so he is worth 12 mil a year, although this is not a very accurate measurement, signing Fields to an offer sheet had way more advantages to disadvantages.

k)its Bryan Colangelo

I admit BC has made bad moves, so has every other GM, firing BC will do absolutely nothing, we are two years into a true rebuild, it took the OKC four years to even make the playoffs and that is with getting lucky with KD(If Oden fell to them lol) and Westbrook(good find by Presti, but if Westbrook didn’t turn out it would have been mighty embarassing. So please before you make a thread about firing BC, make a thread to fire every other GM as well.

 

[draft2017Participant]

well he said that the raptors are going to be a competitive team and will be playoff contenders, i think if the raptors dont make the playoffs (which they wont) then he should get fired

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