I don't get why Brandon Jennings is getting such a bad wrap. I get that he is an inefficient scorer and has been labeled a head case who doesn't like to pass. But he did get the Bucks to the Playoffs when Kyrie Iriving or Jrue Holiday couldn't get their. Outside of Ellis, Jennings had no one that could consistently score the ball. I get why he shot so much. I don't think he is a selfish player. Does anyone remember him in the McDonald's all American game? He was an assist machine. The announcers were talking about him breaking the assist record.
Lol did deandre Jordan and Kyrie Irving kill knights career in Detroit hahah I'm thinking so.
B Jennings gonna be good in Detroit. They're gonna be prolly the number 6 or 7 seed
You said it. He gets a bad rap because he's an inefficient chucker. Always has been. That is his game. On top of that, he can't finish, is a poor defender and he's an average to below average playmaker. So basically he's a liability on both ends of the floor.
Were you the one who cited his"attempt" to break the assist record at the AA game before? That was a completely meaningless "feat". He tried to get the record to get the record. Turning down wide open layups to try to get an assist. Dominating the ball so he could be the one who made the pass that led to a shot. Feigning disappointment if one of his teammates didn't convert an assist opp. If there such thing as selfish passing, that was it. Didn't make him a good or willing passer. He was a massive chucker in HS who broke all kinds of scoring records for a storied prep school at Oak Hill. His terrible shot selection and chucking tendencies started there.
That Milwaukee team had less scoring options than Detroit does now, but he has shown a lot of selfish tendencies, poor decision making on the court, and a poor attitude off the court... that could just be because he was stuck on a losing team, or it could be just an immature thing... no one really knows... He's still a much better PG than Brandon Knight and the pistons got him at the right price.. they should be better next year.
Well, at least the Pistons have got a scorer or an inefficient chucker who'll frustrate the hell outta you. They didn't give up a great deal, the jury is still out on Knight as a point guard but worth taking. It looks like the Bucks aren't finished with their business, I can't imagine they'd leave the roster as is.
U would argue that Brandon Knight's ceiling is not much higher than Jennings' and that Brandon's is up in the realm of a prime Steph Marbury (maybe not a great thing). And they gave up two other possible rotation guys for a 2nd tier type PG with first tier potential. And the contract is sooo minimal. Look at what Dallas gave JOSE f***ing CALDERON!!!! Too much hating going on right now.
I think this is the season we're going to find out exactly how good a passer he can actually be. You have to remember, he's always been the #1 option offensively when he was on the Bucks. If he didn't take those shots, odds are they were going to be worse shots taken by a worse offensive player.
This season is his chance to show that he can run a team. Smith and Monroe can score the ball and I'm sure Drummond will be able to run the pick-and-roll effectively. It's going to be interesting to see what approach he takes now that he has offensive tools all round him. Will he keep taking bad shots or is he going to be a more pass oriented point guard? If he chooses the latter, the Pistons will have a lot of success. If he continues his shooting ways, the Pistons are in for a long 3 years.
All in all, the next two seasons will definitely define Brandon Jennings.
For everyone who says he's inefficient, a chucker, low IQ, selfish, etc. How do you explain the fact that in comparison with other top PG's in his conference- he lead his team to the playoffs which irving, holiday, or john wall couldn't do with arguably the same or better talent and finished like 2 or 3 games behind the celtics who had garnett, pierce, and jeff green supporting rondo? He's a winner in my book. period. and that goes for his whole career in milwaukee. people have a distorted view of his game ONLY because of low fg%. he had to carry the scoring load in mil. i see pure pg tendencies ready to come out this season in det especially with the post presence to open driving lanes (ilyasova loved the perimiter and sanders can't score on the block) and distribute the scoring burden
Led what? His rookie season Bogut and their defense led them to the playoffs. That year they were 2nd in the entire league in defensive rating and Bogut had a career yr, staking his claim as the 2nd best C in the league before that disgusting, career changing injury right before the playoffs. They were elite defensively. It certainly wasn't Jennings with his 37% from the floor, barely there OWS, 14 PER and porous individual defense that was carrying the Bucks to relative success.
And his past yr, all you have to do is look at his +/-. Among all the regular rotation players on his team, he had THE worst +/- and simple rating. They were so much better with him off the floor. So again, he didn't lead sht.
keep in mind that Jennings played a whole lot more games then Wall & Irving.
Jennings started 80 games last year, while Wall started 42 and Irving only started 59.
If Wall would have started 80 games last year, I can almost guarantee that the Wizards would have had a better record then the Bucks
Do you really see Brandon Jennings being a starting PG on a true contender and championship caliber team? Does you really think his play type is winning basketball or highlight/hero ball.
And please don't put Kyrie Irving and Jrue Holiday's names in the same sentence as Brandon Jennings. Kyrie is already leaps and bounds a better player than the inefficient, poor decision making Jennings. Holiday is also a much better player, and plays defense, which is good. Fact that the Bucks made the playoffs says little about Jennings abilities and value. That was a veteran team compared to two younger squads.
So excited to see Holiday and Davis together!
Would hate my life if I were a Philly fan. Dumping Holiday. and that contract, for an often-injuried big man. MCW did impress me in SL but drastically needs to improve his shooting.
you're right kyrie is clearly better than jennings but it can't be overlooked that he didn't produce as many wins. I actually think jennings is better than holiday though- we'll see how they both do in a new systems and with better supporting casts. BUT how does the fact that the bucks made the playoffs say nothing about jennings' ability and value? they made the playoffs with and without ellis since jennings has been there after being aweful until they drafted BJ
Brandon Jennings doesn't make his team or team mates better!!! His skills are great for NBA live 2013, but not to win really basketball games. Sure he will score 27 pts, 7 assists, 2 steals but then his team loses by 15 pts. I don't hate Jennings, but I wouldn't want him on my team.
Bucks in 08-09 were 34-48 no playoffs... Bucks 09-10 were 46-36 and made the playoffs. Thats brandon jennings' rookie year. he makes his team a whole lot better
Or the difference could've been a prime Bogut playing 69 games in 09-10 and leading them to one of the best defenses in the league vs playing 36 games the yr prior, on a team that was otherwise carried by Richard Jefferson.
So when the bucks traded bogut and still made the playoffs again without the 2nd best defense in the league who was responsible this time? another myriad of factors besides brandon jennings again right? he was the leader of that team since he was drafted. and BJ won more games than john wall all 3 years he's been in the league not just last year when he was hurt... I don't understand why everyone is so eager to criticize him nobody thinks his low efficiency is AT LEAST partially a product of a scott skiles system??
This past year? Jennings was at best the 3rd best player on last year's team; maybe even 4th best.
It sure wasn't Jennings who led them to a sub .500 record, making the playoffs by default this past year. Like I said, the Bucks were much better with Jennings off the floor this past yr. Go look here at the bottom of the page.
The Bucks were 12 points better per 100 possessions with Jennings off the floor. 12 points per 100 possessions is a HUGE number.
Monta Ellis was the bigger difference maker and if there was a poll among Bucks' fans involving which 1 of the 2 they'd rather have back, I guarantee the overwhelming winner would've been Monta who was: the much better defender, playmaker for his position, better at collapsing the defense, finishing at the rim and was actually more effective running the point. (Monta 21.1 PER at the point vs BJ 16 PER at the point)
If anything, Jennings held them back from being better.
jennings has produced more wins than john wall since wall got drafted and more wins than jrue holiday since he got drafted.
Doesn't matter. Bad players don't lead their team to sht. The Bucks won those amount of games, but it wasn't Jennings' play that was the impetus behind the majority of those wins. All Jennings has over Kyrie is playoff experience, not the ability to lead his team to the playoffs. Jennings was just more fortunate to play on more veteran teams, while Kyrie...and Wall his first couple of yrs, were on some of the youngest, most inexperienced teams in the league.
That argument is pretty weak dude.
How good is Jennings...well check this out...how did well did Jennings play last week in Vegas when the upcoming ballers played for Team USA???
Again, his game is perfect for NBA LIVE 2013!!! The Bucks made the playoffs cuz after the 3rd seed in the East...it's all weak! And if he's that good, why did the Bucks trade him??? Curry and Lawson are good and they didn't get traded?
@machu46 not even close he has been the face of the franchise since the day he was drafted... I watch every bucks game on leauge pass there's a reason for that. and @OaktownWarriors the system is built to support curry and lawson on their teams nobody can say the bucks system was built to support jennings. thats why he and his team both needed to go a new direction this year
I watch every Bucks game on League Pass as well, and I don't understand how you can watch every game from this past season and say that Jennings played better than Sanders, Ilyasova, and Monta Ellis. I wasn't against bringing Jennings back, but I'm realistic and understand that he was not the best player on our team, and he was nowhere near worthy of $10+ million like he wanted.
The Nugs weren't built around Lawson and he's still better.
Jennings isn't good enough to be built around. He's just a below average starting PG (I could make the case that he's not even starter worthy) who's more flash than substance and isn't an asset on either end of the floor.
@Siggy wins>stats. his efficiency has declined every year because of a growing discord in a mis-matched system. If they were actually a better team without him they wouldn't play him 35 and 33 minutes all 82 games period. if ellis was a better pg they would play ellis at pg. so he plays 35 of every 48 minutes in every game of the season and has the ball the entire time he's in but isn't responsible for the production? it must be the veterans playing 9-16 min that save them from all the damage he does on both sides of the floor while he's in right?
Good play leads to better stats. Better stats leads to more wins. Jennings isn't even an average player by any metric. How can a below average player LEAD his team to anything? Teams win games in spite of below average players, which Jennings is.
My guess is that if they had better options and they weren't committed to developing Jennings, they would've played someone else. It's not like he was statistically helping his team play better. In terms of intangibles he wasn't much help either as a poor decision maker with bad shot selection and no leadership skills on either end of the floor.
@Siggy A george karl offense doesnt benefit lawson? are you serious?
Open court play does help Lawson but that team is not built around Lawson. Heck, their best offensive unit this past yr was when they relieved some of Ty's ball-handling duties and played him WITH Andre Miller.
I like this move for the Pistons. It gives them someone who can shoot the ball outside of the rookie KCP. I think Jennings will flourish in Detroit and become more of a playmaker now that he has a lot of scoring weapons.
@Siggy if you google milwaukee bucks right now brandon jennings is the 1st and most common player to come up. He was their franchise player and clearly the leader of the team. He LEAD them to 2 playoff appearances, the best record in a decade for the team, and again more wins overall than rival pg's in his conference john wall and jrue holiday
That is a function of popularity, not how good a player is. So the F what?
And no he wasn't the leader of the team. He didn't lead them to anything. Bogut and their defense lead them to the playoffs his rookie season. If anybody led them to playoffs this yr it was Monta or Sanders. Leading a team to 6 games below .500 and backing into the playoffs isn't much an accomplishment at all.
And to expound on stats in regards to Jennings, I'm not just listing raw boxscore stats, I'm talking about stats that measure impact. Jennings could've put up an even worse boxscore line, but if the net result was a positive impact on the team that would've helped your case more. He had a bad line AND he had a negative impact on the team, the worst on the Bucks this past yr. Forget about the pts, asts, stls FG%...his net result was a huge negative. And I'm suppose to believe that a net negative player led his team? Please.
@Siggy and for the lawson case i meant built to support, not built "around" as in they are the focal point, but the system advances their style of play the bucks system hindered bj's style compared to guys like lawson and curry
They put the ball in Jennings hands from day one (undeservedly IMO). They gave him the freedom to take his horrible shots and dribble the air out of the ball. They gave him the green light and a long leash, playing him 35+ minutes a game through his mistakes. Skiles' teams have always been very pick n roll heavy, keeping the ball in the guards' hands. He got his developmental minutes for 4 yrs, where's the progress? 5 yrs as a pro, where's the progress?
If he's not good then he's not good. Why make more concessions for a player who's not even good?
@Siggy he was as much a leader of that team as chris paul of the clippers, or holiday of the sixers, or deron williams of the nets. He is the PG, primary ball handler, and the best player so he is absolutely the leader. if it was all bogut and ellis the whole time why didn't the bucks keep either of them? and why did brandon jennings play the most if he had the worst effieciency? according to that they could've played anyone else at PG but for some wild reason they chose him every time for 35 of min...come on man I don't care about efficiency ratings or stats or +/- according to that vince carter is better than steph curry and kyle korver is better than kyrie irving. those stats mean nothing they are a product of the system
-No he's not as much of a leader as any of those guys. Being a leader requires leadership qualities of which Brandon does not have.
-He was not the best player either.
-Bogut was damaged goods after his freak injury. Ellis was a UFA. He turned down their extension offer and decided to leave. The Bucks didn't have a choice.
-Jennings played the most because they were committed to developing him as a key part of their team going forward. They were invested in him as he was supposed to be their PG of the future. That obviously didn't work out for the team.
-If you don't care about efficiency or plus minus then you don't care about how much of a positive/negative impact a player has on his team or how good he really is.
-If you don't care about efficiency then you're admitting that you're not interested in players who play good basketball. Efficiency is what separates the good scorer from the average, the great from the good and average from the bad. Anybody can chuck up shots at a bad rate if they're given the green light to do so. The best players are able to maximize their possessions.
- These +/- are not stats meant to compare players on different teams. They are meant to measure impact among players on the same team. And no they are not a product of the system. They are a direct product of how the player impacts his team. There's no way around that. I could talk about RAPM, (can be used to compare players from different teams) which is another advanced +/- stat, but judging by your arguments I'm guessing that'd be way over your head, but here, you understand rankings. Go ahead and find Jennings.
I'm done with this topic. This is like getting worked up over a freaking Tee Ball game.
@Siggy he was a top rookie of the year candidate and has been an all star candidate (and got snubbed BADLY) several times in his career but hes no good at all........... he's trash right? and a below average player overall who is the leader of playoff teams etc etc
What year was he snubbed badly from the All-Star team?
Yes, he is a below average basketball player and not a leader of playoff teams.
@Tongue-Out-Like-23 This year when he averaged virtually the same stats as holiday and had like an 8 game better record going into the all star break. then holiday got a spot. and at the time rondo also had a worse record and got the starting spot, then sat out, and instead of replacing his pg spot by the next best pg the league put in a center
Holiday was averaging 18 and 4 rpg and 8.9 apg (4th in the league) before the All-Star break and is a much better defender than Jennings, In no way in any world is it at all reasonable to say Jennings should've went over him. Jennings had a better record but he had more talent around him than Holiday.
@GottaBeTheShoes holiday had WAY better supporting talent... evan turner, thad young, nick young, j rich and dorrell wright vs ellis and sanders' defense. The best player on the best teams should be an allstar so jennings definitely should've went over him. they had equal stats and both were the best player on their teams but bj had a better record
" they had equal stats and both were the best player on their teams but bj had a better record"
They did not have equal stats. I just stated this.
Holiday had 19 PPG, 4 RPG, and 8.9 APG at 45.1% FG (I was wrong about his PPG previously, it was actually higher. Here's the link to prove it - http://web.archive.org/web/20130219100406/http://espn.go.com/nba/player/...)
Jennings had 18.5 PPG, 3.3 RPG, and 6.1 APG at 39.5% FG
Milwaukee's Record - 26 wins 25 losses
76ers Record - 22 wins 29 losses.
Only a 4 games difference, not the 8 game bullsht you spewed.
Holiday had a not-as-good year after the All-Star break but at the All-Star break, he was clearly an All-Star and looked far superior to Jennings.
As well Holiday's supporting cast was terrible.
You seriously were dumb enough to mention J Rich?
J Rich only played 33 games and was horrible in them, 40% FG and 10 points in 28 mins of play.
Nick Young only played 59 and young is a chucker that does nothing else.
While Jennings had..
Ellis, Sanders, and Redick. Redick played 78 games averaging 14 in 30 mins of play with 36% from deep.
Ellis averaged 19.2 and 6 playing all 82 games.
And we all know what Sanders did.
Jennings belongs to this kind of players who has enough flashes to show potential and live on that. He can create some stats (not vey good) and some highlighs but all in all he's just a "regular season" player who won't help you to win in the PO.
He has lots of holes in his game : bball overall IQ is weak, defense is poor (help D non existent), poor %, poor decision making. He has good handle and has not a bad vision but does he really want to share the ball and make the other player shine ? I highly doubt... His attitude has never been his best attribute.
One major question for a PG : does he make the other players around him better ? he has had some good (not great) complementary players around him (Bogut, Salmons during his best years, delfino, Ilyasova, reddick, redd, Ellis, sanders...)
If he can recapture the swagger that he brought to the team his rookie year, rather than playing like he's delusional, he can still be a good starter IMO. He seems to have lost what originally gave Bucks fans hope when he was a rookie.
I like brandon jennings and I think the pistons will make the playoffs if they cooperate with each other but come on, Jrue Holiday is literally better at every single thing than brandon jennings. He scores more and does it more efficiently, led the eastern conference in total assists, definetely better at defense, better rebounder. Last time i checked the sixers didnt have any enforcers let alone of a caliber of larry sanders and no one else could create a shot and make it except jrue on the sixers while bj had ellis and the sixers still only won only 4 less games! Jrue went to the playoffs just as many times as BJ except Jrue never got swept and Jrue has been to to the second round and was 1 win away from the ECF. On the sixers team that was 1 win away from the ECF in 11-12 Jrue was the leading scorer, assist man, and 3 point shooter so he was leading the team not someone else carrying him like bogut carrying jennings.