The black quarterback... Touchy subject?
Andre Woodson always comes to mind and its a very sad story... The guy was 6'4 230, a "pocket" QB in every sense of the word, big arm and accurate... The guy holds the record for the most completions without an interception... Passed for 40 Touchdowns his Senior year (Barely missed the record by one TD) (Can someone name the talent around him or coaching staff responsible for that? NO... It was all him)... You know where he got drafted? The 6th round... Someone like that if White would have been the talk of the draft and went Top 5 at least... Compared to him, the 2 dudes from Flordia State and Washington got nothing on him... Its more about opportunity... The only black QB's that make it in the 1st round are overacheivers... Vince Young and Cam Newton...
I thought Andre Woodson was going to end up one of the better QBs from that draft class. He needs an opportunity IMO. He played fairly well in his preseason chances if I am not mistaken.
I don't know exactly why he fell. He was supposed to go 1st round almost the whole season then his stock just plummeted. I know his release was pretty poor and was a bit old. But teams knew that going into the season.
release is ridiculous and Jay Cutler's is long... I just don't get it... I just don't...
release is ridiculous and Jay Cutler's is long... I just don't get it... I just don't...
His name is Rich Brooks, guy sort of has a field named after him that University of Oregon Ducks play on (was a pretty highly regarded coach). Also, upon closer review, he did have Bills receiver Steve Johnson as his prime target (60/1041/13) and Colts TE Jacob Tamme (56/619/6). But, anyway, I do remember Andre Woodson having a pretty monstrous senior year. I am really surprised he was only a 6th round pick by the Giants, because I remember him getting hype as a possible Heisman contender and first round pick. What seemed to have happened is, his release was REALLY slow.
Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler may have had slightly slow releases, but they were also more accurate than Woodson. Rivers was a 72% passer his senior season and Cutler seemed to be a player from another bottom feeder SEC school who was seen as having big time potential. Hard to say if Woodson were given a chance he would be on either of their levels, but I truly do not think race is the reason for his lack of a chance.
I saw that Woodson (who was 24 at the time) had a pretty awful Senior Bowl, with people saying his arm did not look strong, his release was even slower than they had thought and he seemed to lack confidence. Here was the three day breakdown:
Monday (1/21/08): Woodson looked out of sorts early, struggling with the timing of his different receivers. It looked like he was pressing for about the first 45 minutes before things began to click. He connected on a deep ball to Texas WR Limas Sweed during one-on-one drills and drilled a strike to LSU WR Early Doucet on an intermediate crossing route -- both of which showed his excellent arm strength and timing as a pocket passer. Going forward, Woodson should build on the strong finish to Monday's practice. On a side note, the hitch in Woodson's delivery is somewhat subtle but it is easy to see his delivery is the slowest of the three South quarterbacks (Colt Brennan and Erik Ainge). Scouts will dissect his delivery all week long. While it's certainly a negative, Woodson's outstanding arm strength more often than not makes up for the slower-than-ideal delivery.
Tuesday (1/22/08): For the majority of practice today it looked as though there was something wrong with Woodson. Whether his arm was bothering him (more likely) or the 49ers' coaching staff was tinkering with his mechanics (less likely), Woodson rarely put a lot of RPMs on the football and was extremely slow and deliberate with his throwing motion. While Woodson does have a long release with a hitch, which is very concerning, it was exaggerated today for whatever reason. He was also slow with his pass drop and setup. With the speed in the NFL and the defensive backs' ability to break on and attack the ball, Woodson needs to get this fixed or he risks getting a lot of his out routes taken back the other way for defensive scores.
Wednesday (1/23/08): For the second straight day there appeared to be something wrong with Woodson's arm. He continued to use an even longer and more lethargic release than usual. He isn't putting nearly the zip on his throws as he normally does, which is why we suspect his arm is tired. Woodson was also off the mark on different occasions today, leaving some balls behind the mark when throwing air-routes with receivers and during the one-on-one period. One can't help but blame the arm problem Woodson appears to be having. After having issues getting things up to par so far Woodson will need to fix his problem and finish strong to prevent his draft status from falling.
Also, when looking further, scouts also felt that while Woodson had a solid 63% completion for his career, he at times could still be wildly inaccurate. When they broke him down on film, they felt that his accuracy might have been bloated by his making bad decisions, such as passing before the marker on 3rd downs. He also had many passes that were overthrown by a great deal, or even worse, underthrown and short. They were also worried that he held the ball for far to long and he was sacked a huge amount of times. Every year he played at Kentucky, he recorded major negative rushing yards, which is odd for a QB who actually was a pretty decent athlete.
I do not think I am an expert at breaking down QB's, and I do not know if Andre Woodson received a fair shot. But, he could not beat out two former picks with the Giants (Eli Manning and David Carr), did not stick around the Redskins for very long and was even cut by the UFL Hartford Colonials. I know he was close with someone on the Colonials staff, but they apparently decided to keep Josh McCown and Ryan Perrilloux (who is black) instead of Woodson.
With all of this being said, I am guessing that Woodson had some issues that kept him from being considered a high level NFL QB. I do not know what they were, but I will say, if he was on the level of a Rivers or Cutler, both of whom have made Pro Bowls at QB, than I have a feeling the guy would have been a high level pick and still in the NFL.
Tom Brady did not have Woodson's stats, but he went to a major college football program and had a pretty nice senior season. He capped it off with a huge 369 yard and 4 TD game against Alabama in the Orange Bowl. Still, he was not considered much of a NFL prospect for a variety of reasons, and he went in the 6th round. He did get the chance to play, whereas Andre Woodson may have not, but I also believe that his being cut from Hartford has to send some sign that he may not have been NFL material.
Wasn't a big time prospect at the time... And him missing his targets and over throwing them is Bologna... He set the NCAA record for the most completions without an interception I find that very hard to believe he wasn't accurate enough... Especially in the best conference in the NCAA... Secondly, watching almost every game his Senior year I thought he was incredible the stats and tape showed... NOW, whatever happened between his bowl game and the draft I don't know... But it's still a head scratcher that he went 6th round... Maybe I'm tripping...
Woodson is currently 27 years old and serves as a student coach at Kentucky. He had a really strong arm, and was an absolute beast at Kentucky. Unfortunatly, it doesn't seem like he'll get another chance in the NFL, but you bring up a really good point. I know Tebow is a great playmaker, but how is he rated as a better pro prospect than Woodson? I know mobility at the QB position is key, but in the long run, a huge part of a player's success in the pros is passing, and even though it may seem like Tebow is playing well for now, I think his lack of accuracy will catch up with him, which is why I would rather have pure passers like Woodson on my team.
The only QBs I can think of that made a living off their feet are Vick and Randall Cunningham, and Tebow isn't near the level of speed, agility, or elusiveness that the other two are on, and the interesting part is that both Cunningham and Vick become exceptional passers later in thier career.
it looks like someone has been hanging around don imus a lil to much
the next u know hes gnna say he wouldnt invest a black ball player as his franchise player
my 2 cents
first off its silly kanyedabeast to say "dont bring raceism into this" when this thread had nowhere to go but racial talk. You cant say "i wouldn never draft a black qb to run my franchise" and then say leave racism at the door.
secondly, to answer the question, i think a very big part of it is that blacks tend to be better athletes and dominate the more athletic positions. So when they are progressing as talents at a young age, the more atheltic players are geared towards those positions by coaches as well as themselves. That dillutes a lot of black atheltes away from the qb position right there.
Also, it seems some people on here are suggesting black qb's are not given a fair shot becasue they are black. I disagree. NFL teams want to win. If you are an elite qb, you will get drafted high and you will be given a chance to play. Nobody is benching/cutting guys who are better players and sacrificing success becasue of race. Reality is, as kanyedabeast pointed out in this thread, there just have not been many really great black qb's. As a raider fan myself, i dont care what color jamarcus russel was, he sucked. But i dont think he was held back because of his skin color.
For years McNabb played in Pro Bowls and had the Eagles among the league's best teams..But nobody mentioned him in the same sentence as Peyton,Brady...Then again Big Ben has won 2 Super Bowls and nobody puts him in those guys class....lol
People overvalue super bowls for QB's far too much.
And Big Ben really doesn't have the stats. I look at stats much more than winning. And besides, Ben's two super bowls came against NFC West teams, so whats that say. (Although my beloved Cardinals were great that one magical year)
Well, in my opinion, Stats(also known as performance) shapes your legacy for the most part, championships just elevate it. So instead of being in the Barkley-Ewing catagory, Dirk is now inching closer to the Garnett-Malone catagory.