Too many factors go into it. You don't often see a white RB or DB (on the pro level) and that doesn't come up nearly as often as this topic.
EDIT: Virtually everything m-dymes said is exactly on point.
Is a social construct. I know that they have tried to make it seem like their is a scientific fact that one race is better athletically than another, but I personally do not know the data behind it. I think race plays little to no part in this discussion, it should be about accomplishment and ability. Robert Griffin is a smart, talented and fast quarterback. Whether someone classifies that as being "a black quarterback", than that is their perogative. But, every race seems to play the bevy of positions in the NFL. Their may be some players more prevalent at certain positions, but you judge them on what they bring in terms of skill and athleticism. Judging (their is that word again) them by color, well, they are all individuals.
It is like someone saying that "All Euros suck at defense" or "He is to African to guard LeBron James". It is just using some characteristic of their background to group them together. In the end, these are all individual cases. I do not blame kanye for bringing this up, it gets talked about. I mean, their were even apparently people who brought up that their had never really been a good red headed QB when talking about Andy Dalton. But, in the end, this seems to be just as ridiculous. Being a great QB is about many things besides race, and I think those will factor into RGIII draft level more than his skin color. Right now, I think his being a top 5 pick seems to be almost entirely statistically based and not necessarily analyzing him as a player. Keep in mind that Cam Newton has 3 inches and 40 pounds on this guy, not to mention having lead his team to a National Championship. Vince Young did the same thing. I do not think they were drafted based on their skin color, but based on what they brought to the table. These attributes said, possible great QB. Vince Young looked like one early on, winning Offensive Rookie of the Year and leading his team to the play-offs in his second year. His mental attitude is something that happens to athletes of a bevy of skin colors.
The thing with Griffin is, I think he is really a smart kid. I would be surprised if he does not excel at the Wonderlic. Either way, I think he has a much better attitude than many have had. Plus, I know that QB's of any skin color have ran the bevy of marks on the Wonderlic. It seems to be a test that gives you incredibly little input as far as future NFL success, that is for sure:
Any test where Matt Leinart scores a 35 and Peyton Manning a 28, well, I do not know how much faith one can really have in its application to knowing football. Ultimately, I think that you draft a QB on his ability to help your team win football games and run their offense. If someone thinks Robert Griffin is a top 5 pick, they should choose him in the top 5. By the way, Rudeboy, think you are pretty off on the whole "they play black QB's and do not teach them tools for the NFL". Whatever system you are in, white or black, it will either be more college friendly or NFL friendly. You see just as many white system QB's as black system QB's, if you run a non-NFL type offense, it will be harder to pick it up. Many people thought Jeff Tedford (Cal's coach and former QB coach/Offensive Coordinator for Fresno St./Oregon) was cursed and only churned out system QB's. David Carr, Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller were all major disappointments. Aaron Rodgers slipped from possible top overall pick to 24th, and we see what happened there. It is based on the person, not their race.
I have little idea why their are more white quarterbacks than black quarterbacks, but it indeed could be due to economic disparity or due to many being put into skill positions rather than honing their skills. Who knows, but all you can really judge someone on is their ability to comprehend the position and perform at a NFL level. Griffin seems to be an elite college player, but I have little idea about how his system in college translates to the NFL. I also would say it completely depends on whether you think he is a "franchise" QB and what that means. His early success has been fantastic, but their are a number of QB's that tear up college football. Russell Wilson currently has a higher rating than RGIII. He might not be quite as fast (though I will believe RGIII has sub 4.4 speed when I see it at the combine) or have his size, but he is very talented as well. I guess the bottom line is, if Robert Griffin is not picked as highly as many feel he should be, I do not think color will have anything to do with it. I think that it will be due to other factors, because these teams want to win. Winning sells tickets, not the race of ones quarterback.
I cannot wait for Leroy to post on this topic!
Reminds me of the line form Different Strokes when Mr Drummond saw Arnold's black goldfish for the first time.
Mr Drummond - I've never seen a black goldfish before
Arnold - Don't worry, he's never seen a rich White guy before either!
I like RGIII more then Landry Jones at this point too. Still my third QB in the draft though.
Who do u have at #2?
Deja vu? Rush Limbaugh?
1. Andrew Luck
2. Matt Barkley-hasn't improved as much as I thought he would, but still just has that 'it' factor.
3. Robert Griffin III
4. Landry Jones-really has not impressed me this year.
5. Ryan Tannehill
Yeah, I am not sure where I rate him (by the way, topic was written before I saw you put up your list, which I think is solid and pretty much agree with). Honestly, though, his race plays no regard in where I would rate him. If you group black QB's together, than why not group all positions into racial categories? It just does not make very much sense to do, as every individual is different. Robert Griffin III is his own person, and I have no idea why JaMarcus Russell would play a part in whether you draft him or not. They play different games and are different sizes, so why does them having the same skin color matter?
Well, I have to say, I do not at all mind being called a prima donna for this one, but this topic was poorly worded, poorly researched and most of all, poorly thought out. Referring to Rudeboy and M-DYMES as being g-ay certainly does nothing to help them see where you are coming from. You may be a smart guy, but you certainly did not show it in this topic. By the way, completely judging what you have written and I am not behind closed doors, that is for sure.
I do not care if you get banned or whatever, but I want to say that you should have done much more research and it was ridiculous to post this on the main board. From everything you have been writing on here lately, you seem very angry and confused. Read what Rudeboy said to you about your friend, because it is true. You should probably get help, and I really hope that if you are truly interested in this topic, than you research it and go into it rather than laughing off people like M-DYMES possible reasons. You may think I am a "hater", but I honestly have always wanted to give helpful suggestions to someone. Everyone has their ways of letting off steam, I guess writing on here is one of mine. Have to say though, I do not think I am close to as abrasive and judgemental, not to mention condescending, as you have been over the last few months of posting on this message board.
I'll add my two cents.
Growing up, I never wanted to play QB really. Neither did any of my friends. It was due to the fact that all of the players we related to played other positions. I always wanted to be Marshall, Deion, Barry and Emitt lol. I never wanted to be Jim Harbaugh, Troy Aikman or Steve Young.
Maybe that's one of the reasons we don't see too many black quarterbacks... Most black kids' favorite black players play other positions.
The person M-DYMES was refering to that one user was told that he couldn't attend college because of his race was Me not him.
He wasn't making that up I got rejected from a community college because I was born in Italy and they didn't want to count me as a resident even though I am completely legal, since then I've been accepted after I emailed the president and complained to him about it being racist and how i got accepted at other colleges. just want to put that on record so it doesn't look like M-DYMES is making stuff up
The first time I ever liked a black quarterback was when Randall Cunningham played and was throwing to Moss and Carter.
Before that, it was always either running back, wide receiver or defensive back for me because these were the positions of my favorite players.
And even during the times I did play QB, I only wanted to play it because I'd have control of the ball and be able to run it every time if I wanted lol.
Completely agree with mikeyvthedon.
You do not sound educated, or well versed in any sort of factual evidence. Please do some research of the hypothesis you would like figured out; that way when you approach the topic it can be dissected and analyzed. You just continually spout racial & ignorant comments, which in turn do not make you "educated."
Also, please grab a dictionary or spell check software. It's 'who' not 'hoo.'
quit the board homie...wow...i stopped after the first sentence
IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE NO BASKETBALL!!!!
HURRY UP COLLEGE BASKETBALL!!!
NBA AS WELL!!!!
I always knew Kanye was one of the most ignorant posters on this site, this whole thread only confirms my thoughts about this guy....
I voted you for worst noob on this website and I did it for a reason. I'm sorry, but you need to do more research on your point (your point is totally bogus btw). Maybe I can help you with your argument skills because I feel when you get trapped in a corner by TOL-23 and M-Dymes you start insulting them. That, number one, shows you're insecure about your argument and you subconciously admit that you're wrong, but you're in the denial (that's the first step).
You try to act all big and tough behind a computer screen, and you start hurling insults? If you want to get your point across you need to say it in a specific manner and with FACTS backing it up. If you don't have facts, people are going to attack you and you're going to feel like an idiot.
And oh yeah, the homosexual jokes on m-dymes isn't funny either. What's calling him gay going to prove? You know innocent teens committ suicide because they're bullied by that? Grow some balls buddy and stand up like a man.
torontoraptors dropping some knowledge
Racism and making fun of homosexuals just really bothers me. Everyone on this planet are equal and we're all in this together. We don't have anyone but ourselves and society teaches us to hate each other because we're different whether it be the colour of our skin or our sexual orientation. What's the big deal about being gay? One of my favourite actors Zachary Quinto (he played Sylar in Heroes, one of my favourite villains, and he played Spock in Star Trek) recently came out about his sexual orientation (I don't think that should even be news) but this is what he said:
"when i found out that jamey rodemeyer killed himself - i felt deeply troubled. but when i found out that jamey rodemeyer had made an it gets better video only months before taking his own life - i felt indescribable despair. i also made an it gets better video last year - in the wake of the senseless and tragic gay teen suicides that were sweeping the nation at the time. but in light of jamey's death - it became clear to me in an instant that living a gay life without publicly acknowledging it - is simply not enough to make any significant contribution to the immense work that lies ahead on the road to complete equality. our society needs to recognize the unstoppable momentum toward unequivocal civil equality for every gay lesbian bisexual and transgendered citizen of this country. gay kids need to stop killing themselves because they are made to feel worthless by cruel and relentless bullying. parents need to teach their children principles of respect and acceptance. we are witnessing an enormous shift of collective consciousness throughout the world. we are at the precipice of great transformation within our culture and government. i believe in the power of intention to change the landscape of our society - and it is my intention to live an authentic life of compassion and integrity and action. jamey rodemeyer's life changed mine. and while his death only makes me wish that i had done this sooner - i am eternally grateful to him for being the catalyst for change within me. now i can only hope to serve as the same catalyst for even one other person in this world. that - i believe - is all that we can ask of ourselves and of each other."
I know it's long but it's a good read and here we have kanyedabest thinking he's tough sh*t making fun of other people, here are some of his quotes:
"u wanna check my points list? ive had about + 3 for everything ive said, nice try tho..... and bet ur ass im sticking to my guns and saying ur black because if ur not u may be THE dumbest person to post on here, ur tht liberal who goes out and makes excuses for everyone, ppl like u r the reason ur country is going to be pre dominantly hispanic in 25 years, good luck with tht buddy, liberals like u r ruining the states allowing illegal immigration and giving 2nd chances to rapests and murders, good luck u liberal cu-nt"
First Kanye (no wonder you like Kanye...)
Spelling errors and TRYING to cuss M-Dymes, there is your weakness! This allows people to attack and criticize you. Come on man, don't be a statistic be the change in the world!
"and also m-dymes honestly man, u have ur views and i have mine, but dont hate just becuz im young and educated and can argue with someone like u, hoo is used to pushing ppl around in arguments.... i started this post wanting to know y there isnt many elite black qbs and u kept pushing and pushing it to another level by calling me a racist and so forth, so call me childish but ur the one hoo kept pushing the boundaries,
kanyedabest is out like m-dymes is out the closet
pce for the day"
More spelling errors, and I will stress this again, if you can't spell properly then people are going think you're an idiot. And calling him gay? Yeah not funny. If you really want to be taken seriously on this website, don't act like a fool. I encourage you to participate in your education and make yourself a better person.
Again, I apologize on behalf of all Canadians on this website. Kanye is no reflecting of us ; )
People like Kanye need to change, too much hate in the world and thats got to go! And it'll only go if we make the change within to stop all this bullsh*t (racism and hatred against homosexuals/lesbians/transgendered/bisexuals) just because they're different doesn't mean they're less of a human being!!!!!!!
haha can I just say how funny this post is? Like obvious and blatant racism aside, this was hilarious.
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I'm not racist because my best friend is black... I remember when that excuse was good enough... Oh wait...
In my honest opinion, race has a lot to do with professional sports, not because of the color of your skin but the attributes you are given through natural selection. "Survival of the fittest." Complaining about there not being enough black quarterbacks in the league is dumb. Its their fault they couldn't make it in the league because they didn't put in the time or the work, like stated before, they relied heavily on their God-given athletic abilities. You could make the case in another way. Why don't we see many "elite" white receivers or cornerbacks in the league huh? Are they too "smart" to play the position. Sorry but your arguments are PURE bullsh't. I respect that you have your own opinion and you're entitled to it but seriously dude... Making those kinds of jabs at other people because their own opinion differs from yours is incredibly childish. Oh, and so is refusing to believe someone is white just because they call you out on your own racist beliefs..? Come on man, grow up a little bit.
hahaha don't mind that middle stuff.. lol
I come home, get my Blues Clues pudding and Apple juice, turn on the TV to Seamame Street, and I see that this? After I saw 70 posts, I was hoping no one would get offended............boy was I wrong.
Kanye, I think there is a completly logical reason to why there aren't many african american QBs. It's not because they are not capable, but rathr the stereotypes society puts on them. Every draft, there are at least 4-5 black QBs who get taken..........but get converted to a different position. I think it is because we see their skin color, and think of them as athletes, rather than QBs, and this is unfortunate.
I hope as time progresses, we treat black QBs the same way as we do any other race, which is to let them try and develop as QB, instead of changing their position.
Oh yeah, and OB isn't the only position where African Americans are not populated, I don't think i've ever seen a black kicker or punter. Not saying there is a reason or anything, just saying.
can be a pain in the A$$
lets just remember that famous dude that said all men are created equal, and call it good.
You guys should try saying something other then "BLACKS" and "WHITES". Thats really annoying...
So am I too black to play QB?
^No, absolutely not... but you very well might be too African to guard Lebron James.
Nothing good was going to come out of this topic. There was no way
The amount of ignorance throughout this post is insane, some guys made really good pointsl, but are just uneducated in regards to race. Race is a social construct, but because we acknowledge it and make it real, it does exist and will cause ppl of different races to have different attributes and traits. As far as racial inequality there isn't as much in sports, but throughout the U.S it still exists and is rampant. The only thing I get mad about is when people say if we don't discuss race then everything will be okay, just realize when you're saying that ppl mad the same comments during Jim Crow and the entire Civil Rights Movement
As far as why there are few black quarterbacks. In the past coaches tended to keep black players at skill positions believing they did not have the mental makeup to play the position. Even with quarterbacks like Warren Moon, they were still denied the oppurtunity to play the position and usually forced to a skill position. This led to a cycle of black football players not believing they'd really get the chance to play QB so they stick to the other positions on the field. Very recently things have improved the main problem is coaching. In highschool and college athletic QB's (for the sake of discussion we'll assume most are black) can use there natural athleticism to excel at the position. The problem with that is the coaches take "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude which does not allow the QB to develop their skills as passers. Basically once they reach the NFL they learn all these new concepts and mechanics that their previous coaches failed to instill which leads to many of them not succeeding.
It has nothing to do with someone being darker or black not having the ability to play QB. If anyone followed Cam Newton closely in college they would realize he had a competent offensive coordinator who worked week in and week out to develop him as a passer. Cam improved each week and all the work is starting to show in the NFL simply because he had a coach that not only took advantage of his athleticism, but worked with him as a passer.
I could give examples for Michael Vick, Josh Freeman, Vince Young, Donovan Mcnabb and even Tyrod Taylor for their successes and failures, but this has been long winded so if you want explanations just ask.
WOW that took a lot to process.
I think TorontoRaptors had a lot of good points here and i was trying to see where kanye was going with this but he lost me when he started attacking others because he knew he was just trying to pick a fight with someone.
Kanye to answer some of your questions- I don't think '' being black'' has anything to do with how teams look at him but rather the type of player he is. He is the type of qb who will run the ball maybe 8-12 times a game. Well I think there is a trend forming(has been forming) in that GM's and teams want guys who aren't vulnerable to getting injured constantly. Take for example Vick, he runs the ball fairly frequenlty and it seems that by the end of every game he's sitting on the sideline injured when his team needs him. Now my personal belief why there aren't more black qb's or elite black qb's is that most (Danard Robinson,Brad Smith,Cam Newton,countless others) are able to run the ball and do so frequenlty which gets them more likely to be injured.
There aren't many black qb's who don't leave the pocket like a Manning or a Brady which is why they're more susceptible to being injured and why gm's are valuing guys who stay in the pocket more.
I certainly don't think race has anything to do with it just by the mere fact that the american sports industry is full of black athletes like Kanye explained, but i can only hope i'm right on this one.
My view on rasicm- Its not going anywhere and just letting people know that discrimmination is not only black vs. white, there are 100's of nationalities worldwide that can't seem to get along.
Its because white people are smarter than black people, but oh my best friend is black.
The reason Black QBs are not historically successful in the NFL because for a long time they weren't given the opportunity to play QB in the NFL because of racism.
Warren Moon one of the greatest QBs on all time was not selected in the NFL draft after a successful college career because he refused to change positions. He had to spend 6 seasons in CFL where he dominated to get noticed by the NFL that he was an superior QB talent. Once in the NFL Wareen Moon went on to have a Hall of Fame career despite racist institutional barriers set up by the NFL.
Another example is Charlie Ward. After winning the Heisman Trophy, yes thats right the Heisman, Ward opted to play basketball because of the NFL scouts thought he didnt have what it takes to be a QB in the NFL mainly because of the color of his skin.
Additionally, if Tim Tebow was black he would not be in the NFL as a QB, he would definitely be a tight end. Prime example that white QBs are judged differently from there black counterparts.
In order for black QBs to succeed, they have to be given a chance at a young age. Many black children opt not to play QB because they know they have a much better chance of making the NFL at another position due to the racist sterotypes of Black QBs. And the black athletes that do opt to play the position usually are superior athletes and do very well despite being taught the proper techniques due to there on the field success.
I think Cam Newton is going to change the stereotype and open the door for more black QBs. Once owners starting seeing how successful he is, they will have a higher respect for black QBs.
Any rebuttals that say Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Kordell Stewart, Randall Cunningham were judeged fairly is out of there mind.
"Another example is Charlie Ward. After winning the Heisman Trophy, yes thats right the Heisman, Ward opted to play basketball because of the NFL scouts thought he didnt have what it takes to be a QB in the NFL mainly because of the color of his skin."
I'm sorry but this simply is not true. The Heisman trophy doesn't indicate success at the pro level whatsoever. Ward was undersized, and lacked the body to hold up in the NFL (190 lb QB). The reason he didn't play in the NFL was because he wasn't a 1st round pick, and no team would spend a first round pick on someone who might just bolt for the NBA at anytime.
Honestly, I realize that my skin color is not "white" and that no one is truly the shade of "black". Still, what should we use besides this to distinguish, honestly? Caucasian and not Caucasian? African American, when someone may indeed not be born in Africa or from America? I know, it is annoying when people try to distinguish racial epithets, but I for one think their are way worse ways of saying "white" or "black". I have yet to be told a better word to say other than "human being" or "person", but when discussing the social construct of race, what words should we use to distinguish that which is being distinguished? If you could enlighten me on less annoying words to use, would be appreciated, but I have not really found any and, as crazy as it sounds, these are probably the two least annoying words to use when discussing something like this (unless you can come up with a better alternative).
Not OhCanada anymore:
Though I will say, if you are grouping QB's into two different races, that is pretty annoying. Every QB has a different skill set and level of ability. That Charlie Ward thing written in the post above though, seems flat out untrue. He did indeed win the Heisman trophy, but he also played 4 years of college basketball as well. He was undecided about which sport to go pro in, and he said that he would not consider going to the NFL unless he was a first round pick. As teams did not want to gamble on an undersized QB who might not even play for them, they passed on Ward. I think his being 6'2 and 190 pounds and possibly wanting to play pro basketball played much more of a role than his race. It was even said that an inquiry was made by the Kansas City Chiefs during his rookie season in the NBA to back-up Joe Montana, but Ward turned them down. Needless to say, I do not think he was discriminated against because of his race, he just wanted to play basketball it appears.
I see little reason why skin color should matter when it comes to choosing someone to play a position, but I think IndianaBasketball is probably correct in that many young players saw other athletes of the same skin color playing positions other than quarterback. It is difficult to explain why there are not more black QB's as compared to the breakdown of other positions, though I think intelligence has nothing to do with it. If teams do judge Robert Griffin based on what other QB's of his same skin tone have done, I believe that is really sad. The bottom line is always that if someone can play well enough to lead you to wins, they should play. I agree that many black QB's have definitely not been given a fair shake, and I sincerely hope this is not due to race, but it could very well be. Still, when a QB starts losing, or not playing well, they get put under a spotlight. More and more often, this seems to be happening regardless of skin color.
Cannot really explain what happened with Donovan McNabb in Washington, even in Philly. The guy was a productive force for years and completely outplayed every QB in his draft. What I will say is, that he was scrutinized by a number of people for issues besides race (the whole TO issue comes to mind). I believe that he was incredibly well thought of by his peers, but he just never seemed to be able to win the big game. He is not the first QB who has had that happen, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Tony Romo (who has never even come close) and others definitely come to mind. Whether he is fairly judged by the media, well, probably not. But the media does not mean he was not given a fair shake on the football field. Seeing that he was a starter and winner through most of his career, it seems like he at the very least was given an opportunity.
Randall Cunningham again may have been unfairly picked apart by the media, but he was replaced by another black QB when he finally decided to leave the Eagles organization (Rodney Peete). He had a tremendous 1998 season in Minnesota, but was benched in 1999 after throwing 9 picks through 6 games. To say he was given a fair chance may not be telling the whole story, but he definitely had chances. Kordell Stewart seemed to be wildly inaccurate and turnover prone, which I believe was the reason he was probably never given much slack as a QB. Vince Young is the one guy I sort of agree with being scrutinized unfairly. That being said, his attitude and mental outlook on things seem to be a major issue. He seems to be able to win games, and he definitely has some incredible tools as a player, but it seems like his problems are not due to race.
Maybe I am just being naiive in hoping that racial discrimination is not at the root of QB's being judged. I could see how someone could think it would be. The thing is, I believe that we should not judge a QB or player by skin color as much as ability to excel. I know that I wanted the Vikings, my favorite team, to acquire Donovan McNabb, I was even hoping for Vince Young. The reason? I thought they were two QB's who gave the Vikings a chance at winning (little did I know, the lack of offensive line, receivers and defense would have to be involved as well). To me, if you draft a QB, skin color should not matter. The person and his ability at the position matters. My ultimate hope would be that this would not even be a question. The question would be, "If you had a top 5 pick, would you draft Robert Griffin?" This would not be a question based on his race, but only on his abilities as a player at the QB position. Than, you could ask the same question about everyone in this draft besides Andrew Luck, because to me it would be an absolute toss up if I wanted to risk a high pick on a QB, not a QB of a certain skin color.
He is right about the black qb being a touchy subject...In the past the qb was said to be the smartest playeron the team...A leader, almost like a coach on the field..In the 40's,50's,60, and 70's, blacks were thought to be inferior to whites..Whites who were in positions of power would fear losing their jobs if they gave blacks a position of authority...And playing a black man at qb during those times was a no-no at alot of universities...
Its a known fact that Former Alabama coach the late Bear Bryant said that The climate in Alabama wasnt ready for a black qb...Fear of public backlash was the reason why Bryant didnt sign Holloway a multi sports star that went to a catholic school...
Bear Bryant didnt start a black qb until Walter Lewis came along in 1980....
This is like going back in a time warp. The whole "black quarterback" debate is something from like 30 years ago. Racist people said back then that blacks lacked the "intangibles" to be a top QB. Warren Moon basically ended this debate in the 80's. There have been tons of good to great black QBs since then. And yes Vick is elite. Yes, there are lots of white QBs in the league. That is because there are about 7 white guys in this country for every black guy and every single one of those white guys wants to play QB. Sometimes people say that blacks are more athletic. I couldn't tell you if that is true in general but I will give you that blacks have better footspeed. You can debate whether this is cultural or genetic, but you can't help notice a difference at least between American Whites and American Blacks (the difference seems to not be as great in other countries.) But footspeed is just one part of atheticism. QB in the NFL is one of those sports positions where while footspeed is nice, it isn't necessary. The result is the overwhelmingly larger pool of white folk in this country and the very high interest level of white folks to play football and in particular QB (though to be fair, pretty much everyone wants to play QB) result in large numbers of good white QBs.
I bring up the white folk interest in the sport because if you look at the background of a lot of white QBs they had a strong basketball background and they chose football to play QB. I think there are a good number of 6' 4" strong armed black folks out there that make the choice of focusing on basketball either because they just like it better or because their school or community has much better basketball opportunities. I grew up playing basketball in part because I never went to a school that had a football program. But I've played QB in plenty of touch football games and I'm pretty good at it because I've got an accurate arm. White kids growing up in the suburbs or rural areas all go to schools with football programs. Also that is the most prestigious program. So if you can make that team, you do it. And if you can be QB, you do it.
Couldn't this posting be about types of qbs instead of race? It could've discussed the classic dropback-pocket passer or maybe the mobile qb quarterback or mabe even the running qb. It could've been stated that perhaps many teams prefer the dropback pocket passer because they take fewer hits because their o-linemen know where the qb is going to be and they aren't taken hits down attempting to run. It could've stated that running qbs are fun to watch because of added excitement. It didn't need to go where this posting went... straight to the garbage.
In youth football the kid that is quarterback is almost always the coaches kid. Right, wrong or otherwise I'm sure stats would prove me correct. The "typical" youth coach enjoys coaching but it is equally important for them to give their child every opportunity to be the quartback. Obviously their are always going to be exceptions but it's been my experience that is how kids become qbs.
It absolutely should. Look at guys like Eric Crouch and Matt Jones. Really successful, incredibly athletic, but were not considered NFL level QB's and were wanted at other positions. Tim Tebow, if he does not do well at QB, almost certainly will be considered moving positions as well. The thing is, a guy like Eric Crouch, who won the Heisman trophy (unjustly, if you ask me, which nobody does) through a lot of turnovers as a QB in college. His size and arm strength were in question.
Sometimes, guys are good enough football players that you just want the ball in their hands. Happens all of the time in HS where a person will play QB without any exceptional ability at the position to take to the NCAA level. Even happens in college, I see that absolutely in a player like Denard Robinson. To me, Robinson is just flat out not a great QB. He is an amazing athlete, who could play another position, but at the NFL level, he is not a quarterback. But, the thing is, at least he has that ability. Let's face it, a lot of NCAA QB's are not NFL material, and they cannot play another position.
The guys that tend to move from NCAA QB to NFL RB/WR or other skill positions, usually seem to do pretty well. Guys like Antwaan Randle El and Ronald Curry were both small for the position. As explosive as Antwaan was in college, he only completed 51.1% of his passes his senior year (49.8% for his career). I think that often, they move to a position that they can excel and have the longest career. As exciting as Denard Robinson is, that position seems to be something other than quarterback. However, Robert Griffin seems to have displayed an ability to play the QB position at a high level, and I believe that he should and will got a shot at being someones QB. It is not about skin color, it is about skill set and ability. Jake Locker ran a faster 40 time than Cam Newton, but was seen as wildly inaccurate. So, Newton went 1st in the draft and Locker went 8th. There is always more to it, but I think that each QB has a lot more to be classified by besides their skin color.
The reason I say this it shows how racial bias is still alive in sports... How "THEY" want you to believe something and you do... Which he did...
First lets admit the obvious, you have A LOT of black QB's that rely too much on their talent than actually hard work... JaMarcus Russell? Or they become lazy Donovan McNabb? (Him not working on his body in the offseason shows, look how fat he's been the last 5 years).
BUTTTTTTT with all that said, there are Black QB's that are never given the chance to succeed. Look how a white QB has on average 4-5 years to show what he can do... No matter how much ish people talk about them, the TEAM will stand behind them. Romo, Cutler, Palmer, Shaub, Alex Smith, Kyle Boller.... The list goes on... A black QB? They throw them in there for a game and say "Let's see what he can do!" There is no room for failure... T. Jackson and Jason Campbell are prime examples of this... No team has ever backed them and said they are our QB of the future... It's ALWAYS lets see how this goes with them... If a team do back them, watch how the commentators rip their stats apart... Vick and Vince Young are prime examples of this... Especially Young now... Vince is a winner, it might be ugly but the guy wins whoever say different is an idiot... What Jeff Fisher did to Vince Young was ridiculous especially for a coach who haven't been anywhere in years (and shoud have BEEN fired). He didn't beleive in him, he publically humiliated him every chance he got, and he didn't like the guy... Basically what I'm saying here is there is a shorter leash for the black QB... 1-2 years maybe 3 if he's a high pick... White? They roll that train till the wheels fall off...
I will never forget when Shaun King said, "I took my team to the NFC Championship game, then to the wild card game the next year, and a year after that I didn't have a job". He was a 3rd year QB at the time and he was benched!!! You look at his numbers and his success and you start to scratch your head as to WHY was he benched? With those numbers, youth, and ability to win games why wasn't he given more oppourtunities? No one beleived in him, what he could do, or even believed what he did...
They say ish like well Vince Young and Cam is in shotgun majority of the time its no way they can play QB in the league... Watch the Top 5 QB's in this league today MAJORITY of their snaps comes from shotgun... Tom Brady has the most easiest job in the NFL... It's the system more than him... Matt Cassell? Plus look how long he has to sit back there... I'm talking 5-7 seconds sometimes... Just count it this Sunday, he has the most time out of ANY QB in the league... You get in there on him (it never fails) he doesn't produce... But you will never hear ANYONE say that... BIAS... If you think I'm just hating watch this Sunday- watch the line, watch the time he has, watch the little dump passes... Watch the system and then watch him... I bet you will see what I'm talking about...
I like what someone else said before this, that the NCAA teams will put a guy in just becasue he can make a play. Maybe they're not the best player for that position, but its like in basketball. You wanna give the guy who can make the plays happen the ball. Its that easy. Colleges have a limited window for players, four, maybe five years if you get redshirted. They're not going to worry about developing you into a star player that has all the techniques mastered and can make every play great. They want to win now because their job depends on it. So they will put in the guy that can lead their team to a win each week. Winning doesn't translate that well to the NFL, I think we can agree on that. Cam Newton won in college but where does his current NFL team stand?
The point is, in the NCAA they worry less about developing their guys into NFL caliber. To them, more wins equals more money to the coaches and school so they don't care how they get those wins, they just want to get them. And sadly that leaves a bunch of great college athletes left jobless in the NFL because they never learned the proper techniques and were never coached on how to be a good duel threat. They just kinda told those athletic guys to just win by any means necessary.
I don't think kanyedabest is racist lol. I mean, his name is KANYEDABEST for goodness sakes lol.
I just think he could've gone about the post in a different way. Race is always a touchy subject and gets people heated, but it is a rellivant subject. He asked a legit question. Why aren't there more black men playing quarterback? I mean, I saw nothing wrong with asking it.
It'd be similar to asking why aren't there more white men playing running back or cornerback. OR to switch sports, why hasn't there been an American born white superstar since Bird?
like the kind of guy who can count how many times a black person has been inside his house. "Man, I'm not racist. I've had blkack friends over, like, 6 times!"
But, I understand why people would perceive him as being racist. His post was going fine, right up until here:
My good friend says he would never draft a black QB because (they're) boneheads at the position ( yes, that was a racist) but is he right in a sense?
True, it is not the worst thing one can say and does not make kanye himself racist. But, why would this need to be repeated to help make an argument? He is right that some black players have not played the position well and have had a hard time comprehending the NFL, but that happens with players of every skin color. Ryan Leaf, anybody? He goes on to say this to begin his last paragraph:
My best friend is black, so no im not racist, but I dont think I would invest in making a black QB my franchise player.
It is all well and good that your best friend is black, you may indeed not be racist. But, this statement just seems to be pretty offensive and should be judged on a case by case basis regardless of race. It was grouping a bunch of people together by skin color and using that as a negative portrayal of how they supposedly all act. That could be seen as racist, or at least fairly ignorant.
This is totally BOGUS! Me as a African American male I'm not trippin, because he is bringing up a topic that has been going on since before I was born, but it's how he went about saying things .....
"My best friend is black, so no im not racist, but i dont think I would invest in making a black QB my franchise player,"
So basically the consensus of "All" African American's is or should be that a guy like Peyton Hillis should never be a RB, because he is white?
I think NOT, Hillis is a very good PLAYER which he has proved. Talent is talent! If a guy can play he can play it should not matter about race at all. Hell, there are not many white athletes in the NFL who play in the secondary, but I sure did appreciate it when John Lynch played and what he brought to the game.
I don't care if a guy is purple if he can play I want him on my team if he is worth investing in.
theres plenty of white NFL players, offensive guards, offensive tackles, tight ends, quarterbacks, kickers, punters, long snappers, some linebackers and even receivers... dumb kid
My Best Friend is a black NFL Quarterback
The ink is black
The page is white
Together they learn to read and write
The child is black
The child is white
the whole world looks
upon the si-i-ight
The beautiful si-i-i-i-i-i-ight
Save the racist comments, play the race card another day cause it doesnt apply here.
Dude your Topic says Black Quarterback I think it does apply here... (I just read it again, apparently I didn't read the whole thing because when I got the end this time I was pissed). Vick was a damn Pro Bowl QB last year and honestly should have won MVP... What the Fawk isn't Elite about that??? Are you really that dumb to say that stupid a$$ ish??? The nerve of this guy... Name the Elite QB's right now... Right now... Fawk your profile pic is the example of the racial bias in the NFL... Cutler hasn't did a damn thing but poke his chest out n talk ish... He's been in the league for 6 years now and haven't produced... NOBODY is questioning his Elite status are they? Miss me with all that bull ish you talking... You lost all your posting priviliges... I'm red button you on every post I see of yours from now on... No need to read it because I know its some dumb ish... Fawk Yeezy anyway, "I aint watching the Throne I'm sabotaging it"....
First off, I read many of the post but not all of them. That being said, I think kanye was trying to make a valid point but it sounded very ignorant(or is ignorant). Pointless to bash him for it when i think he was trying to have an intelligent conversation.
To the point of the conversation, I think white qb's have been more successful for many reasons. Some of the reasons I have read are better oppritunities as kids(I can see that). More white players play qb than black(probably do to the athleticism advantage). Another reason I think is that black qbs are more athletic, therefore they may react differently than an unathletic qb. For example, an unatletic qb(usually white) drops into the pocket. His guys are covered and he throws it away or dumps it off. An athletic qb(usually black) drops back his first and second options are covered and he tries to make a play with his legs because he can. I think this abilty stunts a qbs growth some. Example Mike Vick. He has a cannon for an arm but in his early days he would trust his legs more than his arm. This I think makes him less of a pocket passer. I hope I am making sense. lol.
I think black qbs will progress steadily as time goes on because they are getting more oppritunities to play the position than they were. Kanye has a point that up to this point black qbs have been less successful(wins wise) than white qbs but i think that is coming to an end.