[JunkYardDogParticipant]

 I’m so surprised there is still so much hype around bigs, I mean really big centers from 7.1 to 7.5.

I still see some topics about sim and tanveer bhullar or european young freaks who are supposed to be the answer for so much teams….

After yaos’ retirement and finally a "bittersweet carreer"… after all the health issues about gigantism… I think it should be clear for all the GMs don’t bet on "7.1and+" players there are not the answer. Draft or trade for solid-proven centers (even if they are only 6.9 6.10 6.11) who can bring something on the table : boards, BS, defense, 3 pt range…

[MagikKnickParticipant]

 Anytime their is a 7-footer, thats not tripping over his feet, people immediatly fall in love. 

But I agree with you, the 6’9 Center that has post moves, is more intruiging to me that the 7’2 Center thats a stiff.

[MagikKnickParticipant]

 Anytime their is a 7-footer, thats not tripping over his feet, people immediatly fall in love. 

But I agree with you, the 6’9 Center that has post moves, is more intruiging to me that the 7’2 Center thats a stiff.

[river09Participant]

yes, i agree with you here… 7 footers are overvalued somewhat.. a 6’9” 6’10” 6’11” center who is an intimidating shot blocker, solid rebounder and who is very active should be much more valued… 7 ft "perimeter skilled" centers i am somewhat annoyed with… i think it’s the skills and tenacity to do the dirty work that are most important…

[river09Participant]

yes, i agree with you here… 7 footers are overvalued somewhat.. a 6’9” 6’10” 6’11” center who is an intimidating shot blocker, solid rebounder and who is very active should be much more valued… 7 ft "perimeter skilled" centers i am somewhat annoyed with… i think it’s the skills and tenacity to do the dirty work that are most important…

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

 actually anytime you find a "7.1and+" center you can be pretty sure you’ll have health issue with that man…

how you can think building a legacy, or even a contender, with a man who just can not be on the court for at least 70 games and 35 min/game.

who are the legitimate giants who dominated the game for the last 2 decades…? mutombo shaq as exeptions (not as the same level)…. divac zo hakeem and even duncan / robinson or ewing were 7 footer or less… muresan yao sabonis were giants but with health issues due to their heigh…

With that in mind (and assuming you’re a GM not blind nor dumb)… HOW CAN YOU DRAFT THABEET before rubio harden evans… ??? 

at best you can draft a roy hibbert between the end of the lottery and the end of the first round… but you have to be sure of his health and of his past (I mean being a big man out of georgetown in a group of solid teammates isn’t nothing). 

 

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

 actually anytime you find a "7.1and+" center you can be pretty sure you’ll have health issue with that man…

how you can think building a legacy, or even a contender, with a man who just can not be on the court for at least 70 games and 35 min/game.

who are the legitimate giants who dominated the game for the last 2 decades…? mutombo shaq as exeptions (not as the same level)…. divac zo hakeem and even duncan / robinson or ewing were 7 footer or less… muresan yao sabonis were giants but with health issues due to their heigh…

With that in mind (and assuming you’re a GM not blind nor dumb)… HOW CAN YOU DRAFT THABEET before rubio harden evans… ??? 

at best you can draft a roy hibbert between the end of the lottery and the end of the first round… but you have to be sure of his health and of his past (I mean being a big man out of georgetown in a group of solid teammates isn’t nothing). 

 

[flybobbyflyParticipant]

 Big Z, Rik Smits, Ostertag, Mark Eaton, Bogut.

I totally understand how teams end up drafting guys like oden and thabeet too high. Guys with that size and athleticism have way more potential to dominate games consistently then guys like evans, rubio, and harden. You have to draft big men and hope that one eventually pans out for a few years. 6’5" guys who can put the ball in the whole are a dime a dozen in the league. Guys who are 7ft+ who are getting ten rebounds and changing opponents shot consistently arent easy to come by and are extremely valuable.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… so draft and let play (devellop) blue collar and hard workers such as ben wallace or okafor or joey dorsey at the end of the lottery or the first round  even if they are undersized… and don’t waste a top 10 pick on an unproven freak or a physically fragile player. Use that pick on another more gifted, solid, proven player even if YOU CAN’T TEACH SIZE.

All the players you name were solid but not dominant.

Okafor noah horford were undersized but proven, physicaly solid and from winning efficient university. Using a top 10 pick on them makes sense.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… so draft and let play (devellop) blue collar and hard workers such as ben wallace or okafor or joey dorsey at the end of the lottery or the first round  even if they are undersized… and don’t waste a top 10 pick on an unproven freak or a physically fragile player. Use that pick on another more gifted, solid, proven player even if YOU CAN’T TEACH SIZE.

All the players you name were solid but not dominant.

Okafor noah horford were undersized but proven, physicaly solid and from winning efficient university. Using a top 10 pick on them makes sense.

[flybobbyflyParticipant]

 Big Z, Rik Smits, Ostertag, Mark Eaton, Bogut.

I totally understand how teams end up drafting guys like oden and thabeet too high. Guys with that size and athleticism have way more potential to dominate games consistently then guys like evans, rubio, and harden. You have to draft big men and hope that one eventually pans out for a few years. 6’5" guys who can put the ball in the whole are a dime a dozen in the league. Guys who are 7ft+ who are getting ten rebounds and changing opponents shot consistently arent easy to come by and are extremely valuable.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Did you seriously just say Joey Dorsey lmao. That 6’9 defensive blue collar big named Joel really worked out for the champs this year.  Oh wait, it was the 7’1 center that was the big difference maker in the finas. That’s your reason for drafting guys like Oden and Thabeet over guards. It’s the old b-ball rue. Never go talented big over talented guard, nor potential big vs. potential guard because the moment you do pass, it may very well bight you in the ass. Scorer’s are a dime a dozen and in every draft. Big’s who can move and potentially become difference makers, do not.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Did you seriously just say Joey Dorsey lmao. That 6’9 defensive blue collar big named Joel really worked out for the champs this year.  Oh wait, it was the 7’1 center that was the big difference maker in the finas. That’s your reason for drafting guys like Oden and Thabeet over guards. It’s the old b-ball rue. Never go talented big over talented guard, nor potential big vs. potential guard because the moment you do pass, it may very well bight you in the ass. Scorer’s are a dime a dozen and in every draft. Big’s who can move and potentially become difference makers, do not.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Having a big presence inside can change a lot of teams image. Tyson Chandler and Dirk Nowitzki weren’t 6’9 to 6’11. Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum weren’t either. How many great centers are there in the NBA? Not many. Tell me all of these 6’9 to 6’11 guys with solid low post games that block shots? I guess it is easy to give props to players that do not exist.

The fact is, size tends to matter. Dominant big men can change teams completely. Yes, their are players who are better than some of the best big men, but there is a reason that people want to play with a Center like Dwight Howard. There is a reason Greg Oden was considered a no brainer at the time of the draft in 2007. A couple healthy years with a big, agile and strong Center could mean the difference between a ring and a "nice season". Name me these teams who won rings without size, defense and rebounding? 

I do not know anyone calling Tanveer Bhullar or Sim Bhullar "saviors". But, players with that size will always be intriguing. Shaquille O’Neal was a player you could build championships around. Dwight Howard is a Center that given the right supporting cast, could win championships. However, ONE championship has been won with a 6’9 Center. It was Detroit, and they had a near 7 footer at 4, and a huge supporting cast, not to mention Mehmet Okur and Elden Campbell as back-ups. 

So, I do not know all of these people who thought Hasheem Thabeet was a great pick, but it certainly goes on a case by case basis. Taller players do tend to get hurt, but they also tend to be part of championship teams. No, the team with the tallest players does not always win, but if you have a combination of size, strength, athleticism and agility, it certainly helps your odds of winning. Miami started a 6’9 shot blocking Center, how did that turn out? You do not have to draft tall players high, and they may not be franchise players, but they can certainly be worth a gamble. Hasheem Thabeet didn’t work out, but Marc Gasol did. 6’9 to 6’11 Centers work, but you better have  a lot of talent around them, and more than likely have some size at some of the other positions.

 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Having a big presence inside can change a lot of teams image. Tyson Chandler and Dirk Nowitzki weren’t 6’9 to 6’11. Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum weren’t either. How many great centers are there in the NBA? Not many. Tell me all of these 6’9 to 6’11 guys with solid low post games that block shots? I guess it is easy to give props to players that do not exist.

The fact is, size tends to matter. Dominant big men can change teams completely. Yes, their are players who are better than some of the best big men, but there is a reason that people want to play with a Center like Dwight Howard. There is a reason Greg Oden was considered a no brainer at the time of the draft in 2007. A couple healthy years with a big, agile and strong Center could mean the difference between a ring and a "nice season". Name me these teams who won rings without size, defense and rebounding? 

I do not know anyone calling Tanveer Bhullar or Sim Bhullar "saviors". But, players with that size will always be intriguing. Shaquille O’Neal was a player you could build championships around. Dwight Howard is a Center that given the right supporting cast, could win championships. However, ONE championship has been won with a 6’9 Center. It was Detroit, and they had a near 7 footer at 4, and a huge supporting cast, not to mention Mehmet Okur and Elden Campbell as back-ups. 

So, I do not know all of these people who thought Hasheem Thabeet was a great pick, but it certainly goes on a case by case basis. Taller players do tend to get hurt, but they also tend to be part of championship teams. No, the team with the tallest players does not always win, but if you have a combination of size, strength, athleticism and agility, it certainly helps your odds of winning. Miami started a 6’9 shot blocking Center, how did that turn out? You do not have to draft tall players high, and they may not be franchise players, but they can certainly be worth a gamble. Hasheem Thabeet didn’t work out, but Marc Gasol did. 6’9 to 6’11 Centers work, but you better have  a lot of talent around them, and more than likely have some size at some of the other positions.

 

 

[iguapops420Participant]

 The was an article on Realgm yesterday saying GM’s seeing the Bhullar brothers as the link between India and the NBA but they definitely aren’t the kinds of guys that will have lottery picks wasted on them. Fact of the matter is, bigs win games while guards dictate it.

[iguapops420Participant]

 The was an article on Realgm yesterday saying GM’s seeing the Bhullar brothers as the link between India and the NBA but they definitely aren’t the kinds of guys that will have lottery picks wasted on them. Fact of the matter is, bigs win games while guards dictate it.

[thparadoxParticipant]

 

"bigs win games while guards dictate it." –> what does that mean?

Size has to be considered in any prospect evaluation.

Big men tend to be a bigger risk/reward play. When they work out, you get a Marc Gasol, a Bynum, Chandler, Gortat, Nene, etc.

It’s extremely hard to win without a dominant big playing interior defense and getting rebounds.

Of course there are a TON of stiffs who get drafted. Thabeet was just a horrible pick. Can’t say I would have taken him in the top 10.

 

 

[thparadoxParticipant]

 

"bigs win games while guards dictate it." –> what does that mean?

Size has to be considered in any prospect evaluation.

Big men tend to be a bigger risk/reward play. When they work out, you get a Marc Gasol, a Bynum, Chandler, Gortat, Nene, etc.

It’s extremely hard to win without a dominant big playing interior defense and getting rebounds.

Of course there are a TON of stiffs who get drafted. Thabeet was just a horrible pick. Can’t say I would have taken him in the top 10.

 

 

[GrovesinternationalParticipant]

at 7’4 i start getting worried about ‘yao-like’ health problems, but the fact is shaq, dirk, pau, marc, andrew bogut, tyson chandler, andris biedrins are all around 7’0", 7’1" and all are (have been in the case of andris) some of the best players on their teams because they have size and skills. you can teach skills, you can’t teach size, so if you get a 7 footer out of college who has the size, mobility to develop those in demand skills then he will be taken earlier just because their is fewer of them and they offer such an advantage. yes its arguable that they shouldn’t be as desired but supply and demand is the key with fewer ‘good’ centres these days and as long as the hoop is 10ft above the floor and the smaller players have to put the ball in there too, the demand for big guys will have them drafted earlier than their skills will indicate they should be drafted

[GrovesinternationalParticipant]

at 7’4 i start getting worried about ‘yao-like’ health problems, but the fact is shaq, dirk, pau, marc, andrew bogut, tyson chandler, andris biedrins are all around 7’0", 7’1" and all are (have been in the case of andris) some of the best players on their teams because they have size and skills. you can teach skills, you can’t teach size, so if you get a 7 footer out of college who has the size, mobility to develop those in demand skills then he will be taken earlier just because their is fewer of them and they offer such an advantage. yes its arguable that they shouldn’t be as desired but supply and demand is the key with fewer ‘good’ centres these days and as long as the hoop is 10ft above the floor and the smaller players have to put the ball in there too, the demand for big guys will have them drafted earlier than their skills will indicate they should be drafted

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Yall are underrating size …. Just look at the best players we know that have ever played the game and the average height at that position

MJ is 6’6 and the average height for a shooting guard is 6’5 yeah its only inch but that could help alot

Wilt Chamberlain 7’1 and the average height for a C is 6’10 

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7’1 and once again the average height of a Cis 6’10

Magic Johson I dont even need to say anything about is height

Shaq 7’1 

Bill Russel is the first guy on this list that is below average height at 6’9 but back in his day you could say he wsa above the average height

Larry Bird was 6’9 at sf the average height for sf is 6’7

Oscar Robertson was 6’5 and 2 inches taller then the average height for a pg

Lebron is 6’8 and taller then the average sf by a inch

Kobe is 6’6 and taller then the average height by only an inch also

[rileymcshea3Participant]

 Yall are underrating size …. Just look at the best players we know that have ever played the game and the average height at that position

MJ is 6’6 and the average height for a shooting guard is 6’5 yeah its only inch but that could help alot

Wilt Chamberlain 7’1 and the average height for a C is 6’10 

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7’1 and once again the average height of a Cis 6’10

Magic Johson I dont even need to say anything about is height

Shaq 7’1 

Bill Russel is the first guy on this list that is below average height at 6’9 but back in his day you could say he wsa above the average height

Larry Bird was 6’9 at sf the average height for sf is 6’7

Oscar Robertson was 6’5 and 2 inches taller then the average height for a pg

Lebron is 6’8 and taller then the average sf by a inch

Kobe is 6’6 and taller then the average height by only an inch also

[BigDParticipant]

While there is always exceptions to the rule, the undersized players are the ones who work harder, Ben Wallace for example.

[BigDParticipant]

While there is always exceptions to the rule, the undersized players are the ones who work harder, Ben Wallace for example.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

When a kid thats 6’8 or taller is in high school..Not only is the coach of his school asking him to tryout for the team..There will be teachers,counselors,principals and even cooks telling him he should be playing basketball..And if he doesnt know how to play..The coach will be willing to work with him, and he automatically has a spot waiting for him,just becuz he’s taller than all the other kids…He’ll be given better chance to make the team over average sized kids that are more skilled..

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

When a kid thats 6’8 or taller is in high school..Not only is the coach of his school asking him to tryout for the team..There will be teachers,counselors,principals and even cooks telling him he should be playing basketball..And if he doesnt know how to play..The coach will be willing to work with him, and he automatically has a spot waiting for him,just becuz he’s taller than all the other kids…He’ll be given better chance to make the team over average sized kids that are more skilled..

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

People are always saying certain players are undersized ..Wade had a very good jr. year and had a great run during the 2003 NCAA Tournament including getting a triple double in the Final 4..If a 6’6 guy had done all that scouts would automatically put him among the top 5 draftees.But they expected Wade to go in the 8 to 13 range..Just becuz he was undersized…

Teams are always looking for that 7 Footer becuz they can make the game easier for their teammates than some of the great perimeter players….Durant was the 1st freshman in years to win college player of the year..But 25 out of the 30 Teams wanted Greg Oden if they had gotten that 1st pick….And even though Durant has become a all nba preformer,if Oden came back and averaged 16 points,14 rebounds,3 blocks shots and shot over 50%..He’ll affect the game more than Durant will, if he scored 30 points a night….

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

People are always saying certain players are undersized ..Wade had a very good jr. year and had a great run during the 2003 NCAA Tournament including getting a triple double in the Final 4..If a 6’6 guy had done all that scouts would automatically put him among the top 5 draftees.But they expected Wade to go in the 8 to 13 range..Just becuz he was undersized…

Teams are always looking for that 7 Footer becuz they can make the game easier for their teammates than some of the great perimeter players….Durant was the 1st freshman in years to win college player of the year..But 25 out of the 30 Teams wanted Greg Oden if they had gotten that 1st pick….And even though Durant has become a all nba preformer,if Oden came back and averaged 16 points,14 rebounds,3 blocks shots and shot over 50%..He’ll affect the game more than Durant will, if he scored 30 points a night….

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

30 out of 30 teams wanted Oden as the first pick at the time. I have heard little else saying otherwise, and I am sure maybe 4 or 5 years later, a team a year has been dropped. Maybe in 30 years, people will be saying "Why would any team have taken Oden"? Well, the reason was that Greg Oden had a rare combination of size and athleticism. He unfortunately has been riddled with injuries, but before than, all we knew was that he had broken his wrist, which is usualy not something you worry about. It was not until after he was drafted that he had microfracture surgery and people started saying "Oh, I knew it all along, why do centers always get drafted over better players?"

Greg Oden will never be as good of a player as Kevin Durant, but it is not as simple as one would think to determine. Durant had a HUGE freshman year, but Oden was also a major force and All-American/Big-10 POY. He was a defensive force, and while Kevin Durant averaged 11 boards per game in college, there was NO doubt in anyones mind who would be the bigger force on the boards in the NBA. Dwight Howard is the only big man who could probably even hope to contain Greg on the boards, and even so, Greg is bigger. His shot blocking instinct was unlike anyones I had seen.

Kevin Durant was a great player, but he was insanely skinny and seemed like someone you could push around. He is also incredibly skilled, very long and has a fantastic skill set. But, we did see that if you play him physically, he struggles. He has yet to use his length to become a shut down defender, and that has a lot to do with his lack strength. The guy is a fantastic player, and it was not as much of a question of size with him, but it was that for a league in an utter drought of dominant Centers, Greg was considered the much more rare prospect. He projected into being a complete game changer for a franchise with fantastic pieces in place, that has unfortunately been decimated by injuries.

Still, as far as Dwyane Wade was concerned, his height was seen as a liability, but his combination of length and speed, not to mention work ethic and skill set, soon put those worries to bed. But, how many Dwyane Wade’s are there? The reason taller people are encouraged to play basketball is because height tends to be a major advantage. The average NBA player is around 6’7, and that is pretty much the ideal height anyone you want in your front court. Their are exceptions to the rule, but they usually have some major advantage that has to do with either length, strength or athleticism. Still, Charles Barkley never lead a team to a championship. So, yes, you can find players "undersized" for their position who are better than players with "ideal size". But, as far as winning it all, I have found very few cases of their existence. I mean, these posts have pretty much been naming heights and giving very few actual examples to think that size does not matter.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

30 out of 30 teams wanted Oden as the first pick at the time. I have heard little else saying otherwise, and I am sure maybe 4 or 5 years later, a team a year has been dropped. Maybe in 30 years, people will be saying "Why would any team have taken Oden"? Well, the reason was that Greg Oden had a rare combination of size and athleticism. He unfortunately has been riddled with injuries, but before than, all we knew was that he had broken his wrist, which is usualy not something you worry about. It was not until after he was drafted that he had microfracture surgery and people started saying "Oh, I knew it all along, why do centers always get drafted over better players?"

Greg Oden will never be as good of a player as Kevin Durant, but it is not as simple as one would think to determine. Durant had a HUGE freshman year, but Oden was also a major force and All-American/Big-10 POY. He was a defensive force, and while Kevin Durant averaged 11 boards per game in college, there was NO doubt in anyones mind who would be the bigger force on the boards in the NBA. Dwight Howard is the only big man who could probably even hope to contain Greg on the boards, and even so, Greg is bigger. His shot blocking instinct was unlike anyones I had seen.

Kevin Durant was a great player, but he was insanely skinny and seemed like someone you could push around. He is also incredibly skilled, very long and has a fantastic skill set. But, we did see that if you play him physically, he struggles. He has yet to use his length to become a shut down defender, and that has a lot to do with his lack strength. The guy is a fantastic player, and it was not as much of a question of size with him, but it was that for a league in an utter drought of dominant Centers, Greg was considered the much more rare prospect. He projected into being a complete game changer for a franchise with fantastic pieces in place, that has unfortunately been decimated by injuries.

Still, as far as Dwyane Wade was concerned, his height was seen as a liability, but his combination of length and speed, not to mention work ethic and skill set, soon put those worries to bed. But, how many Dwyane Wade’s are there? The reason taller people are encouraged to play basketball is because height tends to be a major advantage. The average NBA player is around 6’7, and that is pretty much the ideal height anyone you want in your front court. Their are exceptions to the rule, but they usually have some major advantage that has to do with either length, strength or athleticism. Still, Charles Barkley never lead a team to a championship. So, yes, you can find players "undersized" for their position who are better than players with "ideal size". But, as far as winning it all, I have found very few cases of their existence. I mean, these posts have pretty much been naming heights and giving very few actual examples to think that size does not matter.

[Author]

Posts