This topic contains 21 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by dudo670 6 years, 10 months ago.
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- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 9:35am #66319
dudo670ParticipantI’m sure it’s been discussed on here, but if both were in the same draft class who would go 1? I think Fultz will be the better NBA player and if it were me I’d take him over Simmons no doubt. How good is Simmons really if you need to build a team to cover his weaknesses? Neither guy is a can’t miss prospect but Fultz has the potential to lead a franchise while I think Simmons is a Robin.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 9:45am #1097802
negguaryParticipantwhat are you basing this off of, Fultz’s ability to rebound, pass, defend? Don’t get me wrong I love futz’s game, and would love him for Philly, but what has he proven he can do better than Ben other than shooting and scoring, maybe scoring.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 2:52pm #1097928
dudo670ParticipantHe can’t shoot the ball and doesn’t have a position. it is so underrated how much of a weakness it is that Simmons doesn’t have a position. He’s not a point guard because he can’t shoot and can’t guard 1s and he’s not a power forward either because he’ll struggle to guard 4s. I made this thread because I think the Sixers are better off trying to swap him for Fultz but obviously it’s not happening.
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- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 11:45am #1097811
The GoatParticipantBen would go #1
0 - Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 11:49am #1097812
nill650ParticipantSimmons and Fultz are not on same talent level when you factor in Simmons point forward elite level capabilties,you might think he is on that level except fultz is a much better basketball player overall and Simmons now has injury history.
I would take Fultz before Simmons and with the injury history I would also now take Ball, Jackson,Smith or Fox before I took Simmons. That is how much better this draft is than last years and how much injury history plays a role in gm confidence. There isn’t a gm in the league that wouldn’t pick Giles for example knowing his elite raw talent in the top 5 if his medical results from the combine come back clean…but the odds of that are slim so noone ranks him above 10. So in the same way Simmons drops out of that spot until he proves himself worthy.
0- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 10:00pm #1097860
ChoppyParticipantIf Simmons has an injury history then so does Durant, as they both had the same injury. Would you pass on Durant because of his ‘injury history’? Besides, broken bones can be attributable to blind bad luck, not necessarily anything more sinister. Time will tell.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 5:41am #1097882
nill650ParticipantSo, thats the point. Look at Giles on most draft boards. he has fallen.
Not because of his lackluster play at Duke, because it was all based on Injury.
Would I pass on Durrant for Horford or Conley no, would I pass on him in this draft if he had the Jones fracture with Fultz and Ball on the board? Yes.
Granted The bone fracture same as Durants provided it heals correctly should not be an issue going forward so the injuries are different but Philly has been drafting and dealing with injury prone injury history prospects for a few years now who all are uber talented prospects coming in that were passed on by other orgs because of it. Noel,Embiid and now Simmons who went 1 because he wasn’t injured when he was picked, I guarantee INgram or Brown would have been a 76’er had Simmons been injured before the draft since past mistakes with Embiid who can’t stay on the floor despite his elite ability
My other point about Fultz is that his game is so complete he seems to be an underated overall #1 pick. & I would gamble he is the best guard in the nba in 5 years.
How Simmons compares is his ability to make others better,but beyond that his game is nowhere near as complete as Fultz, and if Simmons were in this years draft he woulkd have fallen behind a lot of these other prospects because of it.
Simmons will likely become an allstar reserve in Philly if the team makes the playoffs in the next 3 seasons & if Embiid keeps getting injured.
I think Fultz will be the rookie of the year hands down even in Boston with a loaded backcourt.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 7:39am #1097895
negguaryParticipantGiles deep slide is due to poor play at duke. In fact if he played well he would still have fallen being as though he was pegged the number 1 pick but had he still played well he would be anlotter lock, now he’s not even considered a first round lock
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- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 1:46pm #1097817
ChewyParticipantSimmons was rumored to still be growing. Injuries with professional athletes who are still growing are pretty common.
You HAVE to take Simmons first. If a GM took anyone else from this draft or last draft they deserve to be fired before training camp ends. People talk about how the most irreplacable piece of GS is Draymon’s versatility. That’s what allows them to run the system they run. Simmons is taller, better ball handler and better passer. He can score, but actually LIKES passing which makes him a hard man to double. I just don’t understand how anyone can justify not taking him first.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 6:33am #1097888
nill650Participantno you would get fired if you took injury history propects after having injury history prospects that can’t stay on the court. Boston might take Simmons (a point forward) this year if he was injured coming into the draft because he would be a great fit on a team whos only allstar is a pg , yeah right…and the soap smells like ass. maybe if he was used as a sell for Ainge to get his trade deals done. Fultz can play the 2 guard and the 1 guard efficiently so he is a better fit. Simmons this year might get drafted 2nd to the Lakers if he were not injured over Ball, but thats not likely since they are both elite passers but only on eof them can shoot, Ball gets the nod. Simmons might go 3rd to Philly since they pick injury prone injury history players to prolong their patented "process" and because at that point in the draft it’s worth the gamble, but to another team at 3 , Jackson,Fox,Smith etc all still are right there with Simmons.
You are placing a lot of value on Simmons imo when he has done nothing to indicate he has a complete game . size and passing ability are a rarity, but it doesn’t guarantee the player will become a better longterm asset than one who already has that complete game but doesn’t have the same physical attributes. Skill trumps upside , when the upside is a long ways from being reached.
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- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 2:16pm #1097819
HitsterParticipantIf Simmons was in this year’s draft hypothetically, Danny Ainge would snap him up in an instant and Boston would slot him in at SF or PF, no thoughts of trading the pick.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 5:09pm #1097846
mowestenParticipantThe difference is real simple: Simmons could improve his shooting, scoring and motor which to date are his biggest weaknesses. Not trying to say he’s LeBron James, but at the same stage they had similar holes in their games. If Simmons works hard on his weaknesses he could be an MVP level player. In my opinion he simply has a much higher upside.
Fultz isn’t ever going to be 6’10 or the rebounder and game changing passer Simmons is, but Simmons could become a very good and efficient scorer.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 6:35am #1097889
nill650ParticipantFultz is already as good of a passr and floor general as Simmons ever was.
Yeah he isn’t as tall, niether is westbrook,Harden,Curry etc…Fultz is the same level of skill as these players going forward.
To assume Simmons will become anything close to the King is a pipe dream.
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- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 6:05pm #1097848
Celtics3178Participantcomparing the players is kind of hard to do. Fultz and Simmons are two totally different players. That’s like comparing john wall and the Greek Freak. Both have the chance to be all stars. It would totally depend on need. Given it’s a guard league I’d prob take Fultz if I had to choose between the two. The Simmons Lebron Comparisons is a joke. Simmons is a baller but come on he hasn’t played one season and didn’t even get his team to the NCAA tourney. Same can be said about Fultz. But no one is comparing Fultz to Lebron. The freakish thing about Fultz is his wing span I believe 6’9.
0- Posted on: Fri, 05/19/2017 - 10:07pm #1097861
ChoppyParticipantNo-one is really comparing Simmons to LeBron. LeBron compares to no-one. He’s a freak. They use, I guess you’d call it a play style comparison, in that Simmons is a do-it-all type player with similar weaknesses to James at the same stage of their careers (shooting). Now if Simmons is playing PG, your point about picking Fultz in a guards league is moot, because they’d be playing the same position.
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- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 2:08am #1097872
jjj10manParticipantFirst of all, why are you all downvoting his comment so much. Come back to this thread in a few years I better see Simmons is clearly a better NBA player since you all are so sure he’s better than Fultz and downvoted him to -10.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 6:49am #1097893
The Scare Crow RisesParticipantPeople need to remember that Simmons is one of a Handful of Tier 1 Prospects
There’s been him, Embiid, Anthony Davis and possibly John Wall, Kyrie/Wiggins/KAT are all Tier 2 Prospects and look at their production
Fultz is at best a Tier 2 Prospect and a closer look would likely reveal he’s a Tier 3 Prospect in a Weak Draft Class…
Lonzo Ball for all his faults is actually a better long term prospect and I’d even throw Jackson and Tatum in that mix too..Hell Fox and Smith Jr could flat out over perform and make the team picking Fultz look foolish in retrospect
How quick people forget that Simmons is a 6’10 and counting freak athlete with elite size and Ball skills, only missing an outside shot which is the easiest thing to develop
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 7:53am #1097896
nill650Participantyou have to take off those rose colored glasses I guess to see the truth.
Simmons is LaMar Odom without a jumper not Lebron James without a jumper.
Fultz is by far a tier 1 prospect , and if he is not in your book, then Simmons is a tier 2 in your book using the same standard.
Simmons freakish athletic ability, and court vision are his greatest attributes,however he does not have prototypical sp/pf length as his wingspan is only 2" longer than his head height and his standing reach is only 9′.
Fultz is also an freakishly gifted athlete with elite court vision and shooting ability at 6’3" he has a +6" ws at 6’10 and a 8’5" standing reach. He is the prototypical allstar pg with the length and speed to defend both guard spots at a hgh level and play both guard spots at a high level.
so if both are point guards in this league since simmons can’t play anywhere else due to his lack of any outside shooting ability and his pedestrian length and the waste of his court vision playing at the 4, and with Fultz having only 2" less ws than Simmons but an elite jumper with the athleticism to play above the rim in space , how do you see Simmons as the better prospect? because he is tall for a point guard? I don’t think his ballhandling is nearly good enough to compete at a high level as an nba point guard, his ballhandling is stellar for a pf but thats compared to the avg nba pf.
Time is the only thing that can render your arguments worthy of consideration, as Fultz’ game is far superior in every sense of the word.
Hell even Ball’s game is better despite the hitch in his shot…since he at least has one.
Simmons shot 3 3 pointers in college…3. That is a long term project as a shot maker. So he is relegated to being a playmaker or attacking the rim. Things that could make him a great player in this league, but to suggest that makes him better than Fultz who does the same thing and finishes better add the elite shooting , making him not only a playmaker but shot maker, doubles his value over Simmons from day one.
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 8:17am #1097900
The Scare Crow RisesParticipantEmbiid, Davis, Simmons and John Wall are the latest Tier 1 Prospects I can mention off the top of my head, I’m sure Durant and Lebron would’ve been Tier 1 as well…
Despitewhat you think will translate about Fultz’ game the fact remains the same scouting collective views Fultz as a Tier 2 at Best prospect, much like Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Dame Lillard and a few others that were great prospects but had something holding them back from being seen as truly Elite…
Fultz is one of my favorite prospects and I’d have loved to add him to my 76ers roster, but the truth is if he was drafted he’d be the 4th best player on our roster behind Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons and Dario Saric, I’m not even 100 percent sure he’s the best G in the class because any one of the following PG’S taken could out shine him very early on and with a little work guys like Fox could dominate Fultz in their potential head to head meetings…
Again these are not just my opinions, several scouts and GM’S would agree that Ben Simmons is a once in a generation prospecy, you can bring up Lavar Odom all you want, Odom wasn’t near the level Bem is as a prospect, he was a very skilled 6’10 F that could at times bring the ball up and make the right pass, Simmons is arguably the best Passer in the last 20 years to have come into the league, and he showed off that potential with HS kids and the Bums at LSU
0- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 8:55am #1097908
nill650ParticipantEven the Philly websites agree with me:
https://thesixersense.com/2017/05/13/philadelphia-76ers-2017-nba-draft-top-prospect-tiers/
in 5 years then we will know for sure, until then it’s all talk until Simmons backs it up
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- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 7:58am #1097898
markfitz14ParticipantThis being a 3pt shoting leauge would mean if a 3pt shot was easy to develop there would be tons of players who developed great 3pt shoting ability.
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- Posted on: Sat, 05/20/2017 - 9:31am #1097911
EspressoParticipantArguing whether or not you would draft Markelle or Ben is subjective.
One thing that should be objective is that Markelle is a tier 1 prospect.
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