Austin Rivers being over-hyped since "The Shot"
Rivers was suppose to kill right away in college just like everyone thought Barnes was going to do his freshman year. Yea he's playing great now but he hasn't all year due to his inconsistant play early on. Eveyone is saying he having a great year and is better than Barnes now and as a freshman, but his numbers are very similar to Barnes freshman year. Also everyone is going crazy about the shot he hit at Carolina dont get me wrong it was nice & very clutch and against their rival, But it was just one game Barnes hit the buzzer beater at FSU last year and so many more clutch shots and throught the year and he wasn't getting the praise Rivers has or the awards like 1st team all ACC when i think it should have went to Marshall or atleast Stoglin.
I can admit Duke has won more games than i thought they would have before the season. But dont act like it has been mainly because of Rivers. Opposing teams have handed Duke more than a fair share of games with their play at the end of games. Honestly they could have 6-9 more losses easily if things had not went in their favor in the final minutes. (UNC win, NSCT comeback, Belmont, Michagan State, Michigan,Virgina, Virgina Tech in OT, Kansas, GT ). But they did win them so you have to give them credit.
Getting back to Rivers he was very hyped coming out of high school just like Barnes. But it seems like he is getting a pass for not playing well early on and for being inconsistant for most of the year. Last year Barnes was getting killed by everyone for not playing well and living up to the hype. And even thou Austin was playing well of late, his second half of the season to this point is nothing compared to Barnes second half of his freshman year.
Im guessing what im saying is Barnes and Rivers kinda had the same freshman season. High expectations and not living up to them for half a year, then play well in the second half. But while Barnes was critized Rivers is being Praised for doing the same exact thing. And Rivers isnt facing the pressure of being the guy who was peg as preseason player of the year, 1st team all american, savior to a program that went to the NIT a year before like Barnes was. But he's getting credit like he was all because of one shot.
The difference between Barnes and Rivers is largely size. Rivers simply cannot afford to be "only" as good as Barnes was since Barnes has really good size for his position while Rivers is at best average in size and athletecism for his. With the tourney, memory of "the shot" will fade and scouts will need to see more from Austin.
I really can't fathom how Austin was a finalist for the Wooden award over Barnes, whenever I see them play I see one of them who is flashy, aggressive, and out of control, while the other consistently takes the right shots and plays within the offence.
Austin's style grabs your attention more, but Barnes is far and away the better player in my opinion. You have to remember Barnes has the ball in his hands a lot less, whilst Rivers sometimes plays a bit of the point. Rivers hasn't done anything like Barnes' 40pt game in his freshman season, and while he had one clutch shot, Barnes has had several, and most of them were better contested that Rivers'.
So in short, I agree that he's being overhyped, especially in terms of his performance relative to Barnes.
Rivers thinks hes a lot better than he is. I'm tired of flashy players like Rivers, Rubio and Griffin getting more attention than players like Barnes, Irving and Love.
I'm a huge Duke fan, and I think Barnes is by far the superior player, and will be the better pro.
He has a great feel for the game, as well as a great mid range game. In a lot of aspects he reminds me of a more athletic Luol Deng. I feel they both have a great knack for being in the right spot on the court, play good defense, are easily coachable, and really work through the flow of an offense. I think Barnes will thrive in the NBA.
but the question is will you take a luol deng with a top 3 pick? idk about ya'll but my top 3 picks are reserved for my franchise players. ofc nothing i can do if there are no more franchise players available though
You sound like a jealous ex girl friend that just found out I'm dating a hotter girl.
Barnes is a solid player and will be a solid NBA player, but Rivers has the "it" factor to take his game to another level. His full arsenal was shown in the Chapel Hill throughout the game, and capped it off when he hit the Dagger against Carolina.
Why wouldnt basketball fans and the media love it? Everyone loves a hero, a game changer, a leader.
Rivers has earned his hype with his game.
What do you mean he has the it factor? He can make clutch shots, so can Barnes. Rivers brings nothing to the table outside of scoring, and he is undersized. Barnes will undoubtedly be the better pro player. You're overrating Rivers immensely now.
I disagree, people lightened up on Barnes especially since he went for 40+ in conference play his freshman year. He was dogged on quite a bit after a slow start, but by the time the 2011 draft rolled around he was considered a top 5 pick. If you think Barnes was really hated on past Jan or Feb of last year, you're just mistaken.
Barnes is very close to being a great player, he needs to improve at his ability to creat offense for himself, doesnt have much besides a few dribbles pull up game.
Rivers has nothing to offer but great scoring, hes average or mediocre at everything else at this point in his career.
They both could improve a whole lot but i think Rivers at worst is Instant Offense like O.J. Mayo and Barnes is team oriented, at worst he is Luol Deng which is a safe bet
Who thought Rivers was going to kill right away in college? He was the third ranked player coming in. He has exceeded preseason expectations from almost all Duke fans (except for Johnny Chill lol). He was NOT as hyped as Harrison Barnes coming in and came in to Duke with A LOT of flaws that everyone knew about. Many thought he wouldn't even be the best player on Duke (including me) and certainly wouldn't lead them in scoring. He's actually shooting better percentages than a freshman 6'8 Barnes in this year.
Again I think Barnes will be a GREAT player in the NBA. He just has this smoothness to his game that I just love watching. But Rivers carried Duke through the last stretch of games to the record they had.
I'm not sold on how Rivers will do in the NBA. He's short for his position, has no mid-range game, still needs to get better at defense, is skinny as hell, and isn't very athletic. That's why I'm baffled that he moved back into the top 7 of the 2012 draft this year.
HE'S NOT READY. If he leaves this year, it'd be a big mistake.
Luol Deng is one of the best defenders in the NBA and is on a top 5 team that probably has the best defense in the league. He's not a liability on offense either as he's the second scoring option behind Rose. If Harrison Barnes ends up being anything like Luol Deng, I would pick him top 3. I imagine Barnes will have a very consistent career like Deng is having, he might have one or two seasons where he'll average around 20ppg, but no more then than I think.
How was Rivers not hyped coming out of highschool he was the top overall prospect until Davis blew up and Drummond enrolled. Barnes was more hyped i can agree, but dont act like Rivers came in a nobody .He was suppose to be a big time scorer right out the gate. And Johhny Chill your right about his full arsenal being on display at Carolina but were was it before that. Offensevily he more skilled than Barnes and who thought he wasnt going to be the best player on Duke?
Yea people started giving Barnes his respect but its not near to what Rivers is getting. Barnes had to earn that throught the whole year including both tournaments. One shot and Rivers is suddenly the man.
Rubio is so hyped up on this board it's hilarious. He's a 35% shooter....Oh, but he can make fancy passes and dribbles good! If you're an NBA point guard, you should be able to dribble and pass very well.
Time for some responses:
Define "Over-hyped"...I don't see him in the lottery of many mock drafts (unlike Barnes a year ago), I don't see him getting called POY or anything. He's the best player on a top 6 team. He deserves some credit. And yes, he hit the biggest shot of the college regular season. Thats somewhat relavent.
That's easy. Harrison Barnes is the 4th best player in UNC's starting 5. Rivers is Duke's best player. And both teams virtually have the same record. Tyler Zeller is going to be the ACC POY and Kendall Marshall is more important than Barnes (Just wait for some &$#%#&@! lottery PG like Jarrett Jack or Jerryd Bayless trying to feed Barnes next year, then you'll respect him a little more).
Shekiru hits this on the head. He's virtually Luol Deng. I see no differences in their games, besides the fact Deng is an elite defensive player.
Befor you say "theirs no doubt Barnes will be a better pro", consider this. Barnes brings nothing to the table except scoring either. And Rivers has the off the dribble one-on-one game that is used by all NBA teams. Barnes is a spot up shooter that won't beat NBA small forwards of fthe dribble. He is a better shooter than Rivers, but not as substantially as Rivers ability to blow by a defender in comparison to Barnes.
Bottom line is, I see Monta Ellis in Rivers and Luol Deng in Barnes. Which isn't shocking, since I'm not sure who you would rather have out of those two. Rivers will probably put up the better stats and have huge games, but if he is the star his team will probably be in the lottery a lot (I'd love to see him play for his dad, and w/ Rondo though). Barnes won't be anything special if he's the alpha dog, but I could see him contributing to a contender.
Rivers showed flashes of what he could be early on. He had more 20-point games early on in the season than Barnes. He averaged more points while he "struggled" and shot a higher percentage. Rivers shot 43.6% from the field and dropped 14 PPG while he "struggled", Barnes shot only 36% and averaged 11 PPG. There's a huge difference there.
Not to mention the fact that UNC went 14-5 while Barnes struggled and Duke went 15-2 while always having a high rank.
*Austin Rivers: I used games from the start of the season to January 15th. The last time he scored single-digits (4 points)
*Harrison Barnes: I used the games from the start of season to January 26th. Prior to his 25+ point games.
"Befor you say "theirs no doubt Barnes will be a better pro", consider this. Barnes brings nothing to the table except scoring either. And Rivers has the off the dribble one-on-one game that is used by all NBA teams. Barnes is a spot up shooter that won't beat NBA small forwards of fthe dribble. He is a better shooter than Rivers, but not as substantially as Rivers ability to blow by a defender in comparison to Barnes."
Barnes isn't undersized for his position and he plays within his limits. He's way more patient then Rivers. Rivers might have good handles, but he's not very athletic so that doesn't really help him. He gets by his guy with a great first step, then gets caught because he's slow. He'll have to adjust as well because he is never going to be a 1st option in the NBA. Also Barnes game isn't dependent around blowing people off the dribble. He usually only takes one or two and pulls up, or he will go and post his guy up.
Barnes is way more patient then Rivers. This worries me. I could see him disappearing for stretches (Like he does in college). Rivers doesnt get caught as often as you made it seem. And Barnes isn't dependent on his first move, your'e right. He's dependent on other people setting him up. He doesn't create his own shot. Which equals role player at next level.
Luol Deng does the same thing though. Not as much this year but the past two years his offense was very dependent on Rose. Let's just assume that Barnes goes somewhere between 3-8 in the draft. That means his PG's could be Jarrett Jack, Deron Williams (if he resigns), Brandon Knight, Tyreke Evans?, Jose Calderon and Kyrie Irving. I don't think any of those situations outside of the Kings (or Nets minus D-Will) would hurt him that bad.
Rivers does get caught though, and that's in the ACC not in the NBA. His ballhandling abilities are almost canceled out by his athleticism. Then you still have to worry about what position he is going to play. He definitely isn't a PG, but can he be successful as an off guard? He's a bit short, not strong and not a great athlete or defender.
I'm just trying to say you see an undersized scorer in every draft. How much better is Rivers then Nolan Smith was? Rivers is a better shooter, a hair taller and much younger, but at least Smith showed some PG ability and was a pesky defender. You don't see someone with Barnes offensive polish with his size and patience in every draft. Will he be a superstar? I really doubt it, but his floor is quite high and he'll likely be a high level scorer and player throughout his career. He has only been a wing for like 3 years too. If he improves his handle he could be special. Rivers has a lot more red flags to me.
You are really underrating Rivers as an athlete. I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's slow. He is very quick aside from having a first quick step. He's not much of a vertical athlete, but he has dunked on some people in the past. He has absolutely no trouble creating his own shot in the NCAA, and I think that that's a skill that will translate to the NBA as well. I don't know where you're seeing him blow by his man and then get caught at the rim. He isn't a Westbrook, Rose type leaper, but he's certainly fine in that aspect.
I said his 1st step is great, but after that he isn't that quick. I'm sure they don't show "Austin Rivers gets caught" highlights on youtube but he isn't going be someone who lives at the rim in the NBA. Austin Rivers is an average athlete outside of his 1st step. It's difficult to play in the NBA when you don't have that or size going for you.
Edit: Maybe it's just me, but I really see nothing special about Austin Rivers. He seems like a perfect candidate to be 6th man to me.
But I don't just watch highlights. I'm a Duke fan and so I watch nearly every game he plays. His quickness is supberb all around, I don't see how you can argue that.
And I don't think he'll be a superstar in the league, as many people have said, I see more of a Monta Ellis or Jamaal Crawford type player. But I do think he'll be able to continue to create his own shot and get to the rim consistently in the NBA and he is an excellent shooter.
Barnes on the other hand, I don't see as being a first option type piece either. He's an ok athlete, but he has no handles and can't really create for himself. I see him being a complementary third or fourth peice on a contending team, but I don't see how that makes him a much better player than Rivers.
In this video his 1 on 1 skills scream NBA allstar. Also, to the people saying he isn't athletic, maybe you want to take that back. Remember, NBA defense isn't nearly as good as college, because they don't work as hard on that end of the court. This is what he will look like in the NBA in my opinion. There won't be people camped in the paint waiting for him. This video and watching every Duke game this year has me convinced he will be a star.
Stuart Hall High School
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@estabansf Dude that's a pro am highlight video...everyone dominates in the Pro Am. Defense is considered a felony in those type of games...
@akhan That video was for the poeple saying he wasn't athletic. Plus, if you watch that video, they are actually playing some NBA teams version of defense. The defense in the NBA is horrific this year and has been getting worse the last couple of years.
Go Barnes! Go Rivers! Who cares?
"But I don't just watch highlights. I'm a Duke fan and so I watch nearly every game he plays. His quickness is supberb all around, I don't see how you can argue that."
I didn't say you only watched highlights. I doesn't care how many games you watched. That doesn't make automatically make you right. It might even mean you're biased. Superb? That would mean he'd be in the upper tier in the NBA in terms of quickness. I really don't see that. Maybe you're comparing him to ACC players, but the ACC isn't the NBA.
"And I don't think he'll be a superstar in the league, as many people have said, I see more of a Monta Ellis or Jamaal Crawford type player. But I do think he'll be able to continue to create his own shot and get to the rim consistently in the NBA and he is an excellent shooter."
Jamal Crawford is a 6th man, like I said Rivers will be (although Crawford could start for a lot of teams). Monta Ellis is a star guard. So in the literal sense (which may not be what you're going for, this is an assumption), you're saying that Rivers will be a 1st or 2nd option because that's what Crawford and Ellis are. I don't believe he's that good. He won't be a star and I'll bet anyone on this site on that.
"Barnes on the other hand, I don't see as being a first option type piece either. He's an ok athlete, but he has no handles and can't really create for himself. I see him being a complementary third or fourth peice on a contending team, but I don't see how that makes him a much better player than Rivers."
Barnes will probably be a 3rd option, or maybe if he improves his handle a 2nd option ala Deng. You're missing the point though, he doesn't need to create for himself because that's not his game. He posts up and he takes one to two dribbles and hits the pull up. If he wants to become elite then yeah he needs to add that dimension to his game, but I don't think either will be close to elite so oh well. Even so, he's not even 20 yet and only a few months older then Rivers, ballhandling is something that can be learned. How can you not see he's much better then Rivers? He had the better season, he just didn't get most of the credit because he has excellent teammates to share the spotlight. Hell 4 of the 5 All ACC team members should've been from UNC. As prospects, Rivers is a late lottery pick at best, Barnes is almost a Top 5 lock.
ESPN: Harrison Barnes #4, Austin Rivers #21 (not a mock, but there actual player rankings)
DX: Harrison Barnes #6, Austin Rivers #16
nbadraft.net: Harrison Barnes #3, Austin Rivers #7
The next three links I clicked on: Harrison Barnes #2, Austin Rivers #10. Barnes #5, Rivers #17. Barnes #2, Rivers #21.
You would think that if Rivers was Crawford/Ellis and if Barnes was an average athlete who will be a 4th option that the roles would be reversed don't you? You know who some 4th options in the NBA are? Just going off the guys from some top teams: Rip Hamilton, Mario Chalmers, JJ Redick, Serge Ibaka, Richard Jefferson, and Mike Conley. Barnes will only be as good as those guys as a Top 6 pick? Wouldn't you think that they would at least be close in mocks if Rivers is as good as Barnes? Only one mock has him lower then 10 and that's the worst one (sorry Aran, your mock is garbage), and Barnes is never higher then 6th. Could every scout be wrong? Absolutely. But after seeing them both play with my own eyes numerous times, I really doubt it.
I have no more time to defend Barnes over Rivers as a player or prospect because it's obvious, at least to me. Barnes is the better player, and ask any scout, or Head Coach in the Nation and they would agree with me. Don't get me started on the analysts who felt compelled to give one Duke player unwarrented 1st team votes because of his name and school, or whoever the jokes are who vote for the Wooden award. Notice how each of the Top 9 teams in the Nation (and 10 of Top 11) have one guy on the Wooden list. It's just the best player on the best teams and then a few players who have truly stood out. In what world is Kris Joseph deserving of that list? You really think that Joseph or Rivers have been two of the best fifteen players in the nation over Barnes? That's good for a laugh. There is a reason Barnes is near the top of every mock draft and why Rivers isn't. The GM who takes Rivers over Barnes is the GM who probably won't have that job for long.
"@akhan That video was for the poeple saying he wasn't athletic. Plus, if you watch that video, they are actually playing some NBA teams version of defense. The defense in the NBA is horrific this year and has been getting worse the last couple of years."
If you really think he did anything that most wings and guards taller then 6' can't do I don't know what to say. I see some of those things in my D2 school gym every week. Would I love that athleticism? Yes! But I'm not going to be going against NBA defenders either.
I have absolutely no idea how you can argue NBA defenses are getting worse with more and more teams employing Thibs principles.
Oh, so since Barnes is projected to go higher, thats relavent?
If Austin comes out this year it will just be so he isn't exposed as a limited player. Right now he projects at being a nice scoring punch off the bench. Now he is still young and he will definitely get stronger and at 6 4" I don't see him as undersized for the 2 guard position. I also expect he will play at 220 by the time he reaches his mid-20s. He can put on lots of good muscle in the next few years.
The problem is all you get is scoring from him and that scoring isn't that great. The kid is shooting 65% from the free throw line! What is up with that? A shooting guard who needs to make his money with his jumper can't be a 65% free throw shooter. That is screams problem to me.
I think he stays in for another year or two and gets better in college. I'm rooting for him and I have faith. But no, right now you aren't seeing an NBA player out on the court. You are just seeing potential.
Nothing wrong with that. But the hype on Rivers is about right. Considering:
Rivers was unanimously voted ACC freshman of the year.
Rivers was voted 1st team All ACC
Rivers is 1 of 3 freshman on the finalist for the Wooden Award.
If he was over hype, then the people who over see these awards would not given Rivers these honors.
Rivers obviously has played up to his abilities.
@y2g, apply your own logic to yourself, you are not the only one in possesion of the truth. And your argument about "barnes being projected higher than rivers = Better player/prospect" is just ridiculous. Is Wes Johnson a better player than Paul George? There you have your answer.
Rivers will be a better pro than Barnes, his game screams nba while barnes game screams bust.
People on here jump on the bandwagon way too early. Even before playing a single college game there were many threads saying Barnes will be a 1 and done. A future NBA All - Star. Same with Rivers....
I am waiting for all the Shabazz Muhammed hype to start on here........
Well, I think Shabazz is almost what would happen if you meshed Rivers and Barnes and added athleticism. He has a good motor and is a freak athlete. He is clutch like Rivers and his jumper has the potential to be very good, though it is streaky right now. He is amazing as a driver, and is more effective than Rivers off the drive. He also shoots well from the line. He has a decent post game, like Barnes, and I see him being a lot better than both of these 2. Defensively he seems to have a lot more upside as well.
So anyone still want to argue Rivers vs. Barnes and act like it was ever close?