A question I have is does anyone think athleticism is overrated? People seem to always link potential to athleticism. Well if the guy gets hurt and is never the same athlete again,does he lose his potential. I don't think that should be the case,but these big time scouts will say it is the case. Today on ESPN Jabari Parker put on a display of straight up solid game on a top 20 nationally ranked high school. He still is not 100% but posted up 28 points,scoring from everywhere on the floor.Obviously he is not the athlete Andrew Wiggins is or even the athlete Julius Randle is but does that mean his potential isn't just as high.The guys skill level is insane for a 17 year old.Step backs,pump fake one dribble pull ups,left hand scoops, passes to cutters.I mean what else would some one want. As a ball player RIGHT NOW when Jabari is fully healthy,he is better then Andrew Wiggins. We can all talk about Wiggins potential because of his bounce and speed.The fact is Parker is bigger and just as long according to measurements taken at Lebron Camp.So the only thing Wiggins has over Jabari is athleticism. I do feel people bank on athleticism a bit to much, it can be taken away at any moment (GOD FORBID). But skill is something you can keep. How important is athleticism to you guys?
Also I know if any of you guys were watching the findlay game vs Montverde then you seen another below average athlete in Nigel Williams Goss just dismantle Montverde.
It depends, personally I prefer the skilled average athlete player rather than the monster athlete with limited skill. When they get into their 30's athleticism goes away but the skills will still be there look at Paul Pierce. Just a heads up I'm not comparing Parker and Wiggins I would still take wiggins as he has athleticism and skills(not on Jabari's level though).
It helps no doubt. Imagine if a guy like David West or Tim Duncan had great athleticism they would be pretty hard to stop and they are very hard to stop now.
Do you think they would have developed that kind of skill set though if they were born with god given athleticism?
They're average athleticism made them the players they are and guys like Steve Nash and Tim Duncan are better off because of it.
Teams draft guys who are great athletes in the hope that their skill grows overtime to complement it. But I do feel its overrated, because though it makes for exciting basketball, it doesn't get you very far without the basic fundamentals and advanced skill.
i am sure we have all played against a guy who does all these pregame antics by jumping and touching the rim and throwing down a bunch of dunks but when the game starts he has horrible coordination and bad touch around the rim...and you say to yourself wow what garbarge.
The answer is yes!!! Overrated. But probably just slightly... To be athletic is a great gift and an advantage you can use by all means... but without skills, an athlete can't just make it on that attribute alone. LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, etc... they have both the skills to go along with being great athletes. But skills are definitely more important. Because for every great player that's athletic, there is also that John Stockton or Larry Bird or Andre Miller out there. If DeAndre Jordan had the skills of Olajuwon, he could be the top player in the league today... but it's obviously not the case...
As for the Wiggins/Parker debate, the skills really aren't that far off. They both find ways to dominate and win. Parker's skills may be a little more advanced at this point, but Wiggins is no slouch in that department. While I agree, Wiggins has the slight edge (yeah not that far off either because of Parker's strength) of being faster, and jumping higher...
At this stage in both Wiggins and Parker's basketball days, you have to give the edge to Wiggins. Maybe potential should not always be linked to being athletic, but at their current stage right now, seems like both have a drive to want to get better. But you can't teach athletic talent. Skills and will ultimately make the true player inside...
I hate when people say Wiggins is all athleticism. Over the past two years he has raised his skill level to a very high level. The advantage Parker has in skill (outside of their passing difference), isn't as great as Wiggins advantage in athleticism. So I completely disagree that Parker is a better player now then Wiggins, and I think the distance between them will only continue to grow as time goes on.
There's alot of guys around the world who are just as athletic as a young micheal jordan and young vince carter. But are very average basketball players. Athleticism should always be no more than a small compliment to your basketball skills. Because 95% of your success playing basketball will be determined by your overall skill level and overall understanding of how to play the game of basketball. Larry Bird is a great example of how you can be a great basketball player while still being a average athlete. And the truth is that the most important type of athleticism that you should have in basketball is:
1. The ability to utilize proper footwork ( for jumping, running, cutting, landing, and stopping )
2. The ability to develop and utilize skilled movement, balance, and bodycontrol
3. The ability to develop and utilize enhanced aerobic and anaerobic conditioning levels
Without the development of these athletic qualities, you won't be able to physically compete at a high level when playing basketball. And for all of you young developing basketball players. You can easily improve your jumping vertical by 3 to 5 inches by simply working on improving your jumping mechanics/skilled movement. Then once you add strenght training and plyometric conditiong to your improved jumping mechanic. Than you can add an extra 8 to 10 inches to your vertical. It's really that simple
My Past Vertical jump training rountine
1. Improve Jumping mechanics, technique, and skilled movement: added 3 to 4 inches to my vertical
2. Utilize jumping strength training routine: added 3 to 4 inches to my vertical
3. Utilize a good/safe plyometic conditioning routine: added 3 to 4 inches to my vertical.
Key factor to remember:
Strength + Skilled Movement + Enhanced Speed Development through plyometric conditioning = Maximum Power
It's really that simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But remember athleticism should only be a small compliment to your basketball skills
95% basketball skills + 5% athleticism = a really good basketball player
Larry Bird wasn't Jordan in terms of athleticism, but he wasn't the tortoise that people make him out to be. However, I would agree that his athleticism obviously wasn't what made him so good. His shot is deservedly what most people remember, but his court vision was excellent. I've heard that his peripheral vision is unreal, like he can see out of the corner of his eye things that I'd have to completely turn around for.
Lets ask J.P. Tokoto would he rather have skills or insane hops
I cant wait to see these guys in college. Next year is about to be amazing. Jabari, Wiggins, Randle, Harrison brothers, Kasy Hill and Chris Walker, James Young,etc plus all the returning guys wow i cant wait.
Athleticism also comes with some setbacks as well. A lot of athletic guys are out of control. Even the ones who get it late. Like Westbrook for example.We have all heard about Westbrook not having bounce until he was 17 years old,and now look he relies a lot on his speed and bounce. That makes up for a large chunk of his game.Take that away and would he be a star? Skills are something that just don't go away as easily as athleticism does. Also I do agree that Wiggins is getting better at his skill level but I don't think he has caught Jabari Parker yet. The boy is 6'9 in shoes and hit multiple contested fadeaway jumpers today.two times he had two defenders on him.
I've been meaning to bring this up and since this thread is about athleticism I might as well...
One argument I've always hated was when people say that the highly skilled players from back in the day would dominate today's NBA because they would have the same access to modern strength and conditioning because today's players lack the fundamentals.
People actually use this as a legitimate argument as to why Player A is better than Player B. The hole in this argument is that you can't just transport this old time player into the modern era and get all the positives that comes with it without also getting the negatives.
If you transport a player from the past to today than you also have to understand that they would grow up in today's basketball culture. And all those attributes that they developed in their era they would've probably not developed them and would be plagued with the same problems that many of our youth have which is the lack of fundamentals.
That's why I hate comparing players from different eras because there are so many small things in each era that shaped those players into what they were.
I feel like some players get by so long because they are gifted athletically they never really develop other skills. Let's just use Griffin for example you take away his athletic gifts today and a lot of what he does is gone. All his easy transition buckets are gone, his ability to blow by guys and dunk is gone, his rebounding may take a dip. He's a good passer at 3-4 apg on his career but a lot of what he does based on his world class athleticism. You could say the same thing about a guy like John Wall as well. Take away the athleticism and all of his upside that made up for his lack of other skills get diminished.
Athleticism is not overrated because two player with the same skills and different athleticism, the better athlete wins, and skills are developable. Pretty much ask Jordan, Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Rose, etc... Its not necessary to be a world class athlete, but it helps exponentially.
Plus we're talking about professional athletes, players who are conditioned to run and jump for 40+ minutes, and if we're talking about players like Larry Bird, who are 6'9 and can average 10 rebounds a game for their career can't be unathletic. His hand eye coordination, body control, anticipation, all at his height are probably in the .01% of the population, so athleticism isn't all explosion in sprinting and jumping. Functional athleticism can mean different things to different people, depending on what they augment. Like how Shaq's size made him unstopable. Or Sabonis' fluidity, despite his slow footedness.
I would argue athleticism became overrated around the same time drafting high school players and one-and-dones became the norm. A bunch of athletic players with under developed game and/or work ethic. (i.e. the 2010 NBA Draft minus a few guys)
Problem is :
athleticism can be difficult (sometimes impossible) to add for different reasons (shoulders, legs, natural gifts...) whereas skills can always been taught.
THAT is THEORY. But most of time young promising prospects rely too much on athleticism and forget to learn skills. At the end this is a basketball game not track and field... so yes athleticism is overrated and all the stromile swift, tyrus thomas can thank stupid GM for drafting "athletes only" and not enough linking this to "mental skills".
most things in sports can be taught. you can be taught a jumper, to shoot free throws, or to play defense. you can't teach a 40 inch vertical. sure, you can teach work ethic, but give that same work ethic to the dude with the 40 inch vertical and you've still got just as wide of a gap as you did before.
athleticism just raises the ceiling for a player, but it doesn't raise the floor.
I think so, many teams roll the dice on guys who barely know how to shoot a jumper, but have a 40'' vert. Some pan out, some don't but I do think a lot of guys who have 30'' verts but can really ball get thrown by the wayside until they prove themselves on teams n which they were picked in the 20's or in the 2nd round.
Since the whole 2013 All-Star team hasn't been announced, lets look at the 2012 team. These are the best players in the league and lets see how they stack up, from an athletic standpoint. For the old guys I gave them the benefit and judged them in their primes.
Elite: (8) Lebron James, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Dwight Howard, Andre Igoudala, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook, Kobe Bryant
Very Good to Above Average: (10) Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Chris Bosh, Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Lamarcus Aldridge, Tony Parker
Average or Less: (7) Roy Hibbert, Paul Pierce, Kevin Love, Dirk, Steve Nash, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bynum
It's not like everyone is an elite athlete, certainly having those kind of gifts help you, and they are well represented, but so are guys who would be considered average or less than average.
Athleticism is NOT overrated. (Better to have it than not.) Many PLAYERS however are overrated due to their athleticism. I have been guilty of doing this on many occasions.
NO WAY! To me athleticism is very important thing..
i mean if you say that guys with great potential and athleticism fail but skilled prospects become steals you can say the same in vice versa, there are many examples too..
like people thought drafting Favors #3 was too high but now i really like him more looking forward than "safe pick" Turner..
people questioned Westbrook at #4 but now he is clearly top2 from that deep draft, Amare went only 9th as a raw player..
and hey even this year, Drummond at #9..
I wouldn't say it's overrated, most of the top players at their position today are Super athletes, I think it's more so what you do with it. Can you go from being a freak athlete to being an all-around beast like Lebron.
Can you go from dominating with athleticism and skill to losing the athleticism and still dominating like Kobe.
If I had two 18 year old players and one was a freak athlete and the other was an ultra skilled player to pick from in a draft, i'd go with the freak 9/10....Why? Because you can teach skill, you cant teach athleticism, with enough hard work I could get him to handle the ball better, shoot better, get his footwork better, etc.
I can't just throw a 40 inch vertical on a guy, I cant just give a guy John Wall's Speed, yes you can improve your athleticism but only to a certain extent, you can improve your skill and take it as high as you want it to with enough hardwork.
Athleticism in todays sport is everything, I read things where guys will make 10 three's in a row in a game and NBA scouts think nothing of it, but a guy could chase a dude down block his shot, run the floor and dunk the ball all in the same play and be an NBA prospect lol Athleticism runs the sports world.
but in the argument of wiggins and parker i think its very overrated jabari before injury was no slouch in the athletic dept sure he was not in wiggins class but skill wise wiggins isnt in his class i think once jabari gets back to 100% and starts really working on his body he will be the better pro prospect, wiggins isnt at all lacking in skill but there are things jabari does on the court offensively that it will take wiggins a few seasons to develop if he ever develops it, jabaris foot work, post moves, middle game outside game passing ability, even watching him play yest at like 75% against a good oakhill team he just made it look easy scoring the ball inside and out, he doesn't have to have elite athleticism, just good enough athleticism because his skill and iq like a carmelo anthony will allow him to be elite on the next level
I just look at it both ways.
Guys with athleticism sometimes don't pan out
Guys with elite skills sometimes don't pan out
Gerald Green was supposed to be the next T-Mac.....he's just now finding his nice in the NBA, Elite athlete.
JJ Reddick was supposed to set the NBA on fire...........didn't happen, he's turned himself into a good role player. Elite Shooter
I just think it all depends on your prefrence, but in todays age Athleticism will get picked before skill 9/10
Rondo is an Elite athlete all the way, he's 6-0 with Shaq size hands, a 7-0 wingspan, speed,quicks and can jump(has dunked on Chris Bosh, Dwight(twice) and Jason Maxiell) the only thing not elite on Rondo is his body frame and even then he's put on 20 pounds since being in the League(186 pounds) and isn't nowhere near as skinny as he used to be.