[WizardofOzParticipant]

I would post them, but they’re on DX.

Some pretty surprising results. Most surprising is Barnes haveing a 39.5 in. vert and Brad Beal having a 39 in. vert, even though I thought both were a little underrated athletically. I do remeber seeing Barnes getting up pretty high in the running vert. Also surprising seeing Marcus Denmon (primarily know for his shooting) having a 40 in. vert. Ann no, Andre Drummond does not have a 38 in. vert like he was telling everybody.

But shouldn’t use these as the primary basis for evaluating a prospects athleticism. You should still primarily use a prospect’s athleticism in-game. I always thought these vertical numbers were overrated. If a prospect doesn’t play that athletic in games, it means nothing,

[JoeWolf1]

 Thanks for the heads up

[JoeWolf1]

 Damn, Meyers Leonard at 19 reps at 185, I knew he bulked up, but that is a flat out strong dude.  His max is probably around 300.

[TyroberParticipant]

Jonathan Givony just tweeted that Harrison Barnes jumped 38inches flat footed. By fair best results this year and 4th best in their database. Kinda amazing his running is only 39.5 and 38 flatfooted. Perry Jones and Miles Plumlee really got up there too with both being able to reach over 12feet. Plumlee really seemed like a boarderline player, but the combine has really helped him. I can easily seem him being the defensive big coming off the bench.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Can’t find them anywhere right now other than his sight. Harrison Barnes looks golden after these, had better results than Kidd-Gilchrist. Very much agree though, these are not the end all be all. Mike is still going to slash to the basket more efficiently than Harrison. The "Max Vert" tends to be something very much overvalued. More often than not, you are not going to get to run to the basket with a full head of steam.

I know you tend to get digs on Drummond, Justise, but it looks like he is still pretty beastly. Sub 11 second agility puts him with the guards, dude is an athletic beast. Perry Jones obviously is as well, but give me Drummond’s 45 pounds over him and ability to clog the lane as opposed to Jones 1 more bench rep. Still, both of those guys look great after this.

Jared Sullinger is a quite evident loser. Slowest agility and 3/4 sprint, I believe. Yikes. I still think he is the best post player in the draft right now, but he really does have trouble moving laterally. By the way, still have little to no faith in Miles Plumlee. His jumping 40 plus does very little for me. Solomon Jones did near the same thing and has never really been a consistent rotation guy.

[WizardofOzParticipant]

"I know you tend to get digs on Drummond, Justise, but it looks like he is still pretty beastly. Sub 11 second agility puts him with the guards, dude is an athletic beast. Perry Jones obviously is as well, but give me Drummond’s 45 pounds over him and ability to clog the lane as opposed to Jones 1 more bench rep. Still, both of those guys look great after this."

Not disregarding his numbers at all. Just stating that 38" was an obvious exxageration.Just find it hard to believe that a guy his size at 18 y/o could jump that high. But no doubt his numbers were still beastly. He still had the 2nd highest max vertial reach @ 11’9", and I think max vert reach is more important than vertical alone.

[JoeWolf1]

 I don’t think anyone would have guess Harrison Barnes and Thomas Robinson would be #1 and #2 in the 3/4 court sprint….beating Marcus Teague

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 Festus Ezeli with a 34 in. no step vert.  Didn’t expect that.  Had the highest no step reach of anybody.

Also, Draymond Green posting the 3rd best land shuttle time was not expected.  Who knew he was that quick?

Quincy Acy posted the quickest lane agility time, with JaMychal Green and Miles Plumlee not far behind.

I am of the opinion that the athetic results don’t matter much.  It is good to see a player show up in shape, but other than that, I think they aren’t much of an indicator of future success.

[omphalosParticipant]

I hope all this talk about Barnes being an average athlete can finally stop, Bobcats have got to take a long look at Barnes with the 2nd overall after seeing these results. Are people ready to believe there is more to Barnes’ game than he showed in college yet?

[JoeWolf1]

 Drummond is only a freak from a size and length standpoint, athletically he’s almost identical to Jeremy Tyler.

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 Ok so what are all the guys who were saying that MKG was so much more athletic than Barnes going to argue now that has been proven to be incorrect too.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

I’m with B-Ball fan – it’s not just about athletecism, but about who plays athletically.  MKG might not have the vert Barnes does, but he plays in a manner that gets more out of what athletecism is there.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Sure, Harrison Barnes was a workout warrior, but Luke Babbitt, Wayne Ellington, Jodie Meeks, Jimmy Butler and Shelvin Mack also put up big time numbers in the combine as well, jumping throught the roof.  I think anyone who watched college basketball last year knows that MKG is much more athletic on the court, at least with how he plays.  Using the combine to evaluate athletic ability is foolish.  You need to look at the on court play of the players. 

Edit: I don’t mean this as a knock on Barnes; I just don’t think that what he did in college is now irrelevant cause he ran fast one day.  Judge players for what they did on the court. 

[lalailaParticipant]

my take:

Barnes absolutelly dominated like this year’s James Harden and even more, a ALL-TIME great standing vertical is not alone, his quickness and speed test are one of the best and much better than MKG or Quincy too. amazing!

no surprises this year are loaded at athletic bigs and even T-Rob has than typical for athletic bigs 35+inch(even this one isn’t impressive this year) vertical and runs floor fastest out of pfs his agility looks so bag with just under 12sec that surprised me, Perry and Moutrie won that athletic bigs battle with crazy 38.5 and 37.5 vertical while both good enough around 11.3 agility..man Jones can get his head at the level of almost 3inches higher than the rim!!

i have heard Drummond had 36vert in adidas nations so this showed dissapointed a little but 33.5 for a 280pounder is still freakish and his BELOW 11sec agility is just amazing (i mean better than all pfs better than Rivers Lillarc ect.)

 

Beal helped him self alot 39vert is great for guard with size, and his is surprisingly both faster and quicker than all of his opponents in Lamb Rivers Ross

Quincy Miller isn’t fast but 36vert should help him alot knowing he is 6’10..

 

[WizardofOzParticipant]

I’m surprised MKG’s results weren’t better. He’s super fast in a dead sprint, but worse lane agility than Kyle O’Quinn. Can’t believe he only benched 6 reps.

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Tony Wroten 185 0 times? I thought he was strong?

Tyshawn Taylor 185 once?

Harrison Barnes had some great numbers, but it doesn’t translate to real game situations, he just doesn’t have that explosive burst.

Darius Johnson Odom may be undersized be he is an ATHLETE! 41.5 Running vert, 17 reps(185) 6’7.5 Wingpsan(Only 6’1) 3.2 Sprint, 10.7 Agility.

As I said all along Marquis Teague stock will be rising, quickest guard there 10.6 Agility, fastest guard there 3.1 3/4 court sprint, highest jumping guard there 40.5. He killed it far as PG’s go.

[Jean_31Participant]

Maybe Joe Wolf but Tyler is a beast physically

[Jean_31Participant]

Fast and Furious there is a big difference in strenght versus a senior and a freshman… Wrotten is goiing to get a lot of strenght in the next few year

[lalailaParticipant]

James Harden also looked like an average athlete in college but he improved his game he is more agressive getting to the basket(what actually Barnes has to improve also) and now no one ever would say he is not athletic, IF Barnes can improve that way in a few years we might be looking at some highlight reel moments..

if you research youtube videos a little on him you actually can see how easily he dunks in catch and dunk situations and looks like he just doesn’t use his 100%

[UNCbasketballbumParticipant]

Austin Rivers had a better vert that I thought he would.  I didn’t see much vertical explosion during his one year at Duke.

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Yea I agree, but uh Wroten weighs 205, you are supposed to at least be able to lift your own body weight, he couldn’t even lift 185 ONCE, that’s a problem, he needs to hit the weight room, regardless of  his age.

[JoeWolf1]

 @I’m sorry, a guy with a 33” vertical leap and someone who can bench press as much as Steph Curry is not a beast.  185 for 10 reps at 268 lbs is not even your own body weight, the same thing people were hammering Tony Wroten for.

Tyler had a pretty good rookie year towards the end of the season, but no one was calling him the most athletic player in the draft before the combine.

He has great size and that is more important when playing basketball than how much you bench, but when you’ve been hearing "Drummond probably has a 38.5” vert and can bench 20 reps, it’s kind of hard not roll your eyes when all the hype about his strength and vertical leap was incorrect."

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Yea some people’s body types are different, Barnes may not be able to put on weight and still be able to move how he wants.

I remember reading a few months back Jeff Teague got up to 190 during the lockout, but cut back to 180 because he said he didn’t feel comfortable at that weight.

Now Eric Bledsoe on the other hand….sheesh!lol

[Allen_Iverson_3Participant]

Not sure whether you saw that, but John Henson doesn’t seem as athletic as he’s described. Also I believe Will Barton hurt his stock as he, as expected, failed at the bench press repetitions and he was one of the slowest  at running!! It will be really really tough for him to get a guaranteed contract.

[WizardofOzParticipant]

"Not sure whether you saw that, but John Henson doesn’t seem as athletic as he’s described."

He had an ankle injury. That might have skewed his results.

[kobyzParticipant]

I always thought that no step vert is much more important than max vert to evaluate a player athletically!

[WizardofOzParticipant]

"I always thought that no step vert is much more important than max vert to evaluate a player athletically!"

For big men it is, because most bigs are around the basket and don’t need a running start. But for guards, running vert is more important IMO because most guards start out on the perimeter and use a running start when they’re around the rim.

[JustaFanParticipant]

All of these numbers look good on paper to fans an GM’s alike apparently, I know it always catches my attention. I like reading about and even watch the combine and enjoyed it, thats why I hate to admit the combine is an over the top beauty contest. I think helps the little guys who hasn’t had as much exposure to a certain extent but outside of guys actual height in shoes alot of the other stuff seems kind of pointless to me. It all looks and sounds good to hear someone has a 10sec agility drill, 40 inch vert, 15 reps at 185 but if you can’t get on the floor and help a team win however it is you been doing in college what does it mean at the end of the day?

[chocboywndrParticipant]

Barnes gained weight last year thinking he need to bulk up, he has admitted that was a mistake as it killed his explosiveness. He is now back down to a more natural weight and the results are clear. MKG was helped greatly as a defender due to the fact that he had AD and TJ playing behind him. Teams rarely tried to drive the lane and even if they did didn’t go all the way to basket becuase of inside strength. MKG is a good player but I have been saying for months he is not nearly good enough skill wise or athletically to be a number 2 pick. If Iggy went 9 and I think Iggy was a better player coming out of college. Why would I pick MKG number 2? Let the negs fly if you want but MKG is not as good an athlete as either Iggy and Gerald Wallace were at his age.

[Allen_Iverson_3Participant]

Thanks for the info 😉

[WizardofOzParticipant]

Judging from the combine, the most athletic players are Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Thomas Robinson, and PJ3.

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I am sorry to say, think you put way too much stock into the bench. You really think Meyers Leonard is pushing around Andre Drummond on the court? I think these combines are a rough estimate of how athletic these players are. Using that rough estimate, Drummond is a freak. He is an absolute monster who ran the lane agility test in under 11 seconds, which is guard fast.

Have whatever reservations you may about Drummond and use his 10 reps to say he is not an absolute monster, but the fact is he certainly fits the bill of being one. I mean, I could say that Meyers Leonard is as strong as Dominique Jones. The fact is, he did an impressive job benching, but he is not the athlete that Andre Drummond is and I don’t see him pushing Drummond around. Kevin Jones benched 185 17 times and Drummond more than held his own against him. Bernard James only managed 6, but I would feel more confident with him as a post defender as opposed to numerous players who managed more reps. It is hard to draw consistent data from the bench as for player expectations.

[phila9012Participant]

 it is really deep, from picks 5 to 35, but the top is not the best. If you could trade back if you have a pick between 2 and 5 you should. I think that there are a lot of guys in this draft that can and will help teams, but other than davis and even he isnt a sure thing to be a perrenial all star there arent the great prospects

[MalcolmxParticipant]

 Kendall Marshall with a 37 inch vert and 3.23 sprint???????????????/

[JoeWolf1]

 It’s more that I’ve been hearing that Drummond has a 38” vert and could rep 185 for a set of 20 all season long, and when in reality, he’s merely good for a big man.  Call it a quincey syndrome for when he hated it when people called Derrick Favors a freak athlete, but I just don’t see Drummond that way.

People weren’t calling Jeremy Tyler or Enes Kanter "freaks or beasts" last year, and they are very similar from a purely athletic standpoint to Andre Drummond who is a "freak, a beast" a "monster"…in size yes, which is more important, but he’s not a freak athlete.

Like I said, his size is way more important when looking at him as a ball player than his bench, but the "biggest, strongest, fastest, most athletic guy in the draft" is merely the biggest with top end speed.  His combine won’t effect his draft stock at all, but seriously, he’s not a freak athlete.

He has great size and great mobility…he’ll still get taken top 5.

[NJHooper95Participant]

Dont know how many of you guys work out, but as an avid workout warrior, I know that there is a huge different between having core strength, natural size and strength and weight training strength. If you dont do weight training often, then it doesnt matter how big you are, you wont be able to do alot of reps. Neverthless if you try and grab or wrestle that same guy, you will find out just how strong he is. Damian Lillard did more reps than Drummond, So you guys think that Lillard is stronger than Drummond, that he is strong enough to keep Drummond out the paint, or that he is strong to where  Drummond cannot body slam him?. Lets be real, apparently Drummond is not a weight-lifter, but know that there are different types of types and bench pressing is nothing more consistency, the more you do it, the stronger you will be.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I saw you said you did not like Drummond as a top 5 pick. Where would you rank him? Do you think that Meyers Leonard is a better prospect? By the way, Derrick Favors was and is a freak athlete for his size. So is Drummond. These combine numbers do very little to discourage this from being the case.

I feel Drummond is only scratching the surface of what he can bring to the table. He could be a terror defending the pick and roll, think he will pay dividends there right away. Think he will be a MUCH better rebounder than Leonard and is going to end up being better at the grind work. Both he and Favors are raw, they will need some time, but I see Favors becoming a fringe All-Star. Drummond is in the same camp, and that tends to be worth a top 5 pick. The mental is always a worry, but you have to project how these guys develop, and I think his prototype is stronger than Leonard’s.

[Wahoo757Participant]

You do realize that it’s harder to bench press when you have longer arms right? So benching 185 10 times witha freakish 7-6 wingspan is pretty impressive.

[HaleParticipant]

Barnes and Marshall had some fantastic combine numbers. And Jordan Taylor was the quickest? What?

[kaanyrvhokParticipant]

at the combine. Instead it was Marshall.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I remember people saying Harden was unathletic and Roy was unathletic and being shocked at their combine numbers.  When they went to the NBA they both were athletic.  Barnes lost some weight and it appears to have helped him.  Also his game just makes people think he is unathletic.  He is mainly a jump shooter so a slasher would look more athletic than he is

[kobyzParticipant]

"For big men it is, because most bigs are around the basket and don’t need a running start. But for guards, running vert is more important IMO because most guards start out on the perimeter and use a running start when they’re around the rim."

for every position i think, i mean no step vert is a better indication of how much athletic is a player on a basketball court, even for guards, cause running vert in majority is of use for finish opencourt and breakaway playes and for that you can succeed with even not the best vertical, but no step vert can tell us more, like how much effective a player could release his jump shot over defenders, how good and qulaty the looks he gets after he create off the dribble and much more thing in the stable game which is a bigger part of the game.

[kaanyrvhokParticipant]

Barton better bank on the fact that rebounds translate better than sprints and cone drills. Its crazy how bad his numbers were. Im 36, overweight and I can run a 3.5 off the couch with a beer in my hand.

[HaleParticipant]

Seeing that makes me curious as to what I can run now. 

[JoeWolf1]

 @Mikeyv,  

I think Drummond is in the 6-10 range, to be honest.  What he brings to the table size wise and from a mobility standpoint is very unique, but he is so raw and I’m really unsure what kind of player he thinks he is going to be.  We’ve seen another extremely long, mobile, player with great potential but questionable views on where he fits as an NBA player scratch heads for the past 5 years.  That’s JaVale McGee, I had my reservations about Drummond all along, but always knew he could be a very big post intimadator and rebounder if he put his mind to it, so it was really a turn off when he compared himself to Kevin Durant.  

His physical charateristics are hard to overlook, but I’d still take Davis, MKG, Beal, Robinson and Barnes ahead of him in that order.  He’s more of an enigma now that he was before the combine, everyone knew he was big, I think some thought he was more athletic and after a disappointing season he compares himself to a small forward with a dead eye from 3 point range?  Comon’ Andre, if he does work on his jumper, I see a player who faces up and doesn’t use his athletic ability.  You saw glimses of that this season as he was shooting his ugly two handed fade away over 6’9” 230 lb college centers.  

I still feel he is the best center prospect in the draft, I still take him over Meyers Leonard, from a draft standpoint because Leonard didn’t play with much fire either last season.  He (Leonard) will be a more well rounded NBA player, but Drummond has the ability to be a great shot blocker and lane presence.

For my criticism on Drummond, I will and have always said standing reach and max reach are the most important numbers for big men, and Drummond did excellent there.  He’s an intriguing guy, but something about him just doesn’t add up.

@zachb,

Not being able to bench your own body weight will never be impressive no matter how big you are.  I know that bench is not very important while playing an NBA game, but Hassan Whiteside, Eddy Curry, Sagana Diop, Brendan Haywood all managed to put up between 12-17 reps with longer wing spans.  He’s probably average for a guy with that kind of wingspan, not beastly.

[rtbtParticipant]

There was a very interesting article which came out several months after the NBA combine scores were released. I’m guessing the article was published approximately 2 or 3 years ago . They ranked the top ten athletes based upon their scores in all of the various categories. We’re talking about verticals, wing span, agility, etc.

Guess what? I don’t remember the exact percentage, but only 4 or 5 of the guys on the top ten list made it to an NBA roster. And some of the guys who were drafted very high and doing exceedingly well weren’t on that list.

The conclusion is fairly obvious. Measurements are very interesting, they help foster fascinating online discussions about future potential, but the real question is whether you can or cannot play basketball at a high level.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Marquis Teague 40 inch vert what a surprise…It appears that the guards just aren’t athletic this year with this crop.

[uknationParticipant]

These numbers mean absolutely next to nothing, GMs can talk all they want about how they value these things but as past drafts have shown they will still draft you because of what they saw you do on the court as well as potential. Not being able to bench or jumping high in the test doesn’t mean much either if you don’t use it in games. Durant couldn’t bench once, O.J Mayo had a 40 plus vert but you would never know it by watching him play. These are good to debate about though

[jaysmith1987Participant]

Kendall marshall has to be a big winner at the combine. For a guy people called unathletic he did really well at running a fast paced offense. Also i saw at the end of the year he started scoring at will. He showed he has athleticism and after that perfirmance he should be the the first pg off the board. I see him as a better shooting rubio.
Another winner harrison barnes ive been saying for months uncs system hindered him they called for him to be a strict jump shooter and it destroyed his chances of going number 1.
Last but not least Perry jones is the real deap athletically and given the right coach who can think outside the box and let him play Sf and right system this guy can make anyone selecting outside of the top five look like a draft genious. If im toronto or milwakee Perry Jones is my starting sf next year. Throw him to the fire and let him play.

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 The numbers can def lie but it also gives a glimpse into a guy potential that you may have thought wasn’t their. Some guys are such good jump shooters like Ross and Barnes that they can rely on it too much making them sometimes look less athletic than they are. With these numbers a good coach can challange a player with drive to reach his max potential. It still falls to the player to get there but you now know there upper limit of physcial capability. 

Kendall M agility is scary low.He is lumped in numbers wise with the centers, how do you draft a guy in the lottery who can’t at all keep up with the players that he will have to guard.

I was also shocked by MKG’s agility, he must be like the Hulk and defend better in the moment when challanged. If the numbers really mean something him being able to guard 1-4 just took a big hit.

Wroten may not be able to shoot but he def looks like a guy who will be able to guard 1 through 3. If he can try to copy Rondo he could be great pick later in first round, his interviews are gonna make a huge impact on whether he goes in early or late 20’s.

[JoeJoParticipant]

 I’m not sure I buy Barnes’ vertical numbers.  First of all, his standing reach is way too short for a guy of his dimensions.  He has the standing reach of a guy with hardly any wingspan at all or many inches shorter.  Take Kyle Singler: he measured 1/2 inch taller in socks, 1/2 inch shorter in wingspan yet his standing reach is a good 4.5 inches longer than Barnes.  Richard Jefferson’s standing reach is short relative to his proportions, 6.725  height/7 wingspan yet his standing reach was still 8’7.  I don’t buy that Barnes’ reach is so short.

Adding an 1.5 or more to his standing reach cuts his standing vertical and running vertical from a very impressive 38 to the low/mid 30 range.  It’d be more plausible all things considered.

 

 

[chocboywndrParticipant]

The thing with Barnes numbers are he dominated across the board whether you want to believe his vertical numbers or not. If he good numbers in just the vertical I would be more skeptical but he is high in evey catergory overall even agility. If you just look at SF he is prob 1-2 in every catergory . There had been rumors of 40 inch vertical for sometime its even in this espn sports science clip. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7309828http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7309828

[JoeWolf1]

I watched Barnes jump and believe the numbers

This is what I wrote the Friday after watching it live

“Harrison Barnes was really close to hitting the 12′ mark on the max vert. Maybe 11’7” or 11’8”

http://nbadraft.net/forum/official-combine-thread?page=1

His official number was 11’9”. I saw it, it was impressive.

[Author]

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