Asik Possible Trade
I saw this trade idea on another site and I thought it was very interesting and could be a good trade for both teams.
Omer Asik has demanded a trade in Houston and is clearly unhappy there. Houston wants to keep him, he will certainly help them when it comes to matching up with the big teams in the west. A deal worth doing, IMO is trading
C Omer Asik and PF/C Donatas Motiejunas to the Atlanta Hawks
for PF Paul Millsap. Houston gives up someone they wanted badly, but gets a much better player and a much better fit in return. Millsap is a great rebounder and an inside/outside forward who wont clog up the paint and driving lanes.
The reason the Hawks would do this is because this gives them a young true Center and 7 footer in Asik and allows their franchise player, Al Horford to to play the position he wants to play and is more effective at. I think it gives them the front line they need to move forward with their young talent at the guard positions.
Is it possible? What do you guys think?
The Hawks will not do this deal. Disagree with me if you want, but the Hawks wants two bigs with an inside-outside game. It's not the prototypical front line they have, but its effective, especially in the eastern conference. I was hoping that we will tank this year, but I see that we have the right to swap picks with the Nets this year. Therefore I get to root for us to win, make playoffs and be attractive to FAs, and to wish the worst for the Nets.
Asik is in a difficult situation. There are not any contending teams that need him to be their starting 5. If he needs to start, he'll go to a bottom feeder. I think he'll fit nicely in Portland, but I doubt Houston trades him to another Western conference team and make them stronger.
I think Im off topic and all over the place with this response, Im tired...........
It wouldn't be possible until December 16th because Atlanta cannot trade Milsap within the first 3 months of his contract. Financially it would work and it makes some sense from a basketball standpoint considering Houston needs a PF to play alongside Dwight and it seems like Atlanta has been looking for a true center to play next to Horford forever now.
I think Milsap is clearly the better player of the two and considering it is known that Houston almost has to deal Asik I don't think they could pull off an offer this beneficial. Milsap is going to give you 15 and 8 at PF and while Asik is a valuable defender and rebounder he brings very little to the table offensively.
The bottom line is Houston overpaid Asik from the get go and now that they have Howard to start it makes no sense to pay a guy 9 million to play 12 minutes a game as a backup center. You would think that only playoff caliber teams who need help inside would be willing to make a deal for Asik. The problem with that is the price tag being about double what it should be. There aren't many big money expiring contracts out there this year with players who will be trade bait (for example Shawn Marion with 1 year left at 9 million.) You look at somebody like OKC who could use some interior help for sure but they already have Kendrick Perkins due 9 million this year and next...and there is no way Houston would want to trade straight up for him.
I just don't see a big market for Asik right now. He has proven he is a valuable player with his defense and rebounding but when comparing him to the top playoff contenders centers he just doesn't stack up. Many of the teams that could use him don't have any pieces to get him. Teams like the TWolves could use some depth in the frontcourt but they just gave Pekovic 60 million for 5 years...would you want to add another 16 million dollar committment to the center position? The same goes for the Clippers who are so desperate for frontcourt help they are about to bring in Lamar Odom...the difference is you can pay Odom the league minimum and instead of adding 18 million to the 20 million you already owe DeAndre Jordan for the next two years you take the cheaper player even know he is a bigger risk.
It is hard to trade overpaid centers because there are already so many of them in the league now. Bogut is making 14 million, Bynum is making 12 million, Biedrins is making 9 million, and even the Miami Heat are paying Mark Blount 8 million dollars this year and he hasn't played since 2009. It would be a lot easier for teams if they had the low paid young guys like Steven Adams starting at center and then bring in the high priced trade piece to start for them while they develop. The problem is there are way too many Kendrick Perkins's already starting and that screws up those potential deals.
I agree. I dont think Asik was overpaid in the beginning, but because they now have Dwight Howard as their starting C, it makes Asik's value decrease for them and also makes him overpaid. I've tried hard to think of teams that'll take Asik and the Hawks are the only team that's not terrible that makes even a little sense. As you said, most playoff contenders already have solid Centers which make them unlikely to bring in an overpaid Center like Asik to be the back-up.
Being a Cavs fan I porpose the the
Rocket give: Asik
recieve: Anthony Bennett and Tyler Zeller
Cavs get: Asik
give: Bennett and Zeller
Its not the greatest or sexiest proposal but it does serve both teams. Cleveland can play Thompson and Varejao at the 4 and Bynum and Asik at center. Instant upgrade and starter quality for 48 minutes in the front court. Earl Clark can play the 4 as a stretch when that skill is needed. Trade machine says this doesn't effect the Cavs win total which is total bullsh!t. They are a better team now and will be next year with him under contract. He is insurance for Bynum also. Asik at center puts this team as a playoff team.
The Rockets will have to pay Parsons eventually and having control of Bennett whose stock is as low as it will ever get for 4 to 7 years is a cap friendly move. Tyler Zeller is a running second or third big who would give them another 7 footer. His mid range game is developing and what damage could he do in 10 to 16 minutes a game. He is on a great rookie deal for less than 2 million (per, 17th pick) the next 3 seasons counting this one.
If Bennett's skill set is fully developed, he would be the perfect offensive combo with Howard. A catch and shoot 4 with bounce and underrated handle. He can rebound for his positition and Moray saw value in Robison and Bennett's skill set is a better fit for the NBA than Robinson. This deal doesn't hurt Houston in the short term, but it doesn't make them better I admit. I would also want one of Cleveland's assets like a future Miami pick also.
For the record I am a Bennett fan and I am in no way giving up on him. He has a lot of work to do and with D.Mo, Terrance Jones and Bennett they have roster flexibilty to move one or two of these guys in the future.
This move also gives the Cavs roster flexibility in the summer. If they cut Bynum in the summer his twelve million comes off and they would have enough money available for a max player.
I disagree that Asik is overpaid. It's debatable. But I think people need to recognize that it's hard to find centers who can handle significant minutes.
What other centers in the league provide more offense than Asik while possesing his level of defense, IQ and rebounding??
Howard, Duncan (minutes are an issue), Chandler, Hibbert, Noah (minutes again), Bogut (can he stay healthy), Vucevic (defense isn't on Asik's level), Gasol, Koufos (meh).
Not that many. And it's not like Asik is a complete ghost on offense. He scored 10 points last year on efficient numbers.
Personally if I was building a team, I would prefer to get my offense from my other positions so my center can focus on the other aspects of the game. Centers need to be able to play defense, rebound and set picks. While scoring from the 5 is useful, there have been plenty of championship teams that got single digit scoring from the middle.
Tim Duncan played more minutes per game last season than Asik. Noah played a league leading for centers 36.8 minutes per game last season so I have no idea what you are talking about when you say (minutes).
Asik isn't a bad player he averaged 10 PPG 12 RPG and 1 BPG but those aren't exactly standout numbers for a center. His PER among centers last season was under 15.00 and had him ranked 31st out of all centers. Scoring 10 points per game in 30 minutes a game isn't good offense. The majority of his points came on putbacks, dunks and free throws...he has virtually no low post game or mid range shot. Larry Sanders scored at the same right as Asik did last year and he blocked over 1.6 more shots per game.
Of every single NBA player to get 30 minutes a game last season only two scored fewer points per game than Asik. They were Gerald Wallce and John Salmons. Only Tayshaun Prince, Alonzo Gee and Tyson Chandler averaged less than 11 PPG in 30+ minutes a night.
There is no doubt that Asik is one of the 10 best rebounders in the NBA. Reggie Evans is as well and really the only thing that seperates these two guys is that one is 7 foot and the other is 6-8. Here are a list of Centers I would prefer over Asik.
Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, Duncan, Gasol, Cousins, Pekovic, Vucevic, Horford, Noah, Chandler, Sanders, Hibbert, Drummond, Jordan, Hawes, Varejao, Jefferson, McGee, Bogut, and Kanter.
That is 20 guys right there in what is clearly one of the least deep positions in the NBA anymore. Teams are going smaller and smaller and being versatile on defense and being able to defend the pick and roll is becoming more important than being low post defender who gobbles up boards. Rebounding will always be important and that is why Asik will play in this league for a long time...but their aren't a ton of low post scorers to defend anymore. Look at OKC they got Perkins and paid him all that money to be a low post defenisve stopper but now he is all but useless for the Thunder.
The guy is overpaid in my mind but so are a lot of the centers in the league. Centers are somewhat of a dying breed but that doesn't mean they should be overvalued. Of the teams that won titles with single digit scoring from the center position are we counting Miami? They started Bosh at center most of the playoffs. Bosh is a PF so we could count those Heat title teams to be fair I guess even though they have two of the 5 best wings in the NBA. However before that Dallas had Chandler who averaged double figures. The Lakers had Bynum in double digits for their 2 titles. The Boston Celtics team with Perkins in the middle in 2008 had no low post scoring presence but they also had 3 or 4 hall of famers surrounding him.
From 1999-2007 there were 9 NBA titles won. 8 of them were won by Shaq or Duncan. The only title that wasn't was the Pistons who were one of the best defensive teams of all time. There have been plenty of championship teams that got single digit scoring from the middle but most of them had LeBron or Michael Jordan on their team. The other teams that didn't had a mix of incredible defense and veterans who shared the ball on offense being the Pistons and Celtics this decade.
Now if you go back before that outside of Jordan winning titles I think every team had a center in double digits. Hakeem won two titles while Jordan was out of the league. The Bad Boy pistons won 2 in a row with defense but still had Lambeer giving them 12 a night in the post. Before that in the 80's the Lakers and Celtics won 8 of 9 with Kareem and Parish in the middle respctively. The only other team to win during that span was the Sixers with Moses Malone averaging 25 and 15 that season. Before that I can go on and on with the Sonics with Sikma, The Bullets with Elvin Hayes, Blazers with Walton, Celtics with Cowens, Knicks with Willis Reed, and clearly the early 70's and 60's were dominated by Russell and Wilt.
So you are right saying there have been plenty of teams with single digit scoring centers. From 1960 to 1990 there was only one and that was the 1975 Warriors with Rick Barry scoring 30 a night. 5 of 6 bulls teams with MJ didn't have a double digit scoring center, one Warriors team in the 70's and 2 Miami Heat teams with LeBron and Wade and one Pistons team and Celtics team that were great defesively. That is 10 out of the last 54 championship teams which is 18.5 percent. If you take out the 5 MJ teams it is down to 10 percent. So you can win without a scoring threat at center but it is clrealy a lot easier when you have one.
Damn that was fun to read. Let me first clarify what I meant about 'minutes' for Duncan and Noah.... It's speculation. I expect Duncan to play less than 28 minutes a game for this year. The Bulls need Noah to play big minutes, but injuries seem to follow Noah when he plays his maniac-style ball in an unchecked manner. Meanwhile Asik played all 82 last year. But again, speculation.
You made compelling points. But I still think you're underrating Asik's impact. His PER will always suck- because he never touches the ball. His contribution is hard to quantify- especially his last year with Houston, since he was the only one playing defense out there. He had little help defense, and was often forced to cover up his guards mistakes wayy too much.
But even though he played on a team that didn't care about defense, his opponents played worse when he was on the court. Teams shot .17% better and had a +5.8 Offensive Rating when Asik sat. On Chicago, the impact was even more noticable in the advanced stats. 2011-2012, opposing shot .49% better and had a +.7.7 Offensice Rating when Asik sat.
Asik is not a crazy athlete- but he's a smart defender who plays hard and has legitimate size. This may not be a sexy package, but that's worth $8.3 million. Especially on a short term contract.
Now, when you say you'd take Hawes over Asik. I don't know what to say about that. Hawes is a liabiltity and can't be justified as a starter for a quality team. Obviously, players such as Lopez are superior talents compared to Asik. But I would argue that crafting a contender with Lopez in the middle is more difficult to pull off than having Asik as your center. Lopez struggles defensively, gets pushed around and has rebounding woes. His offensive ability is incredible, but it comes at $6 million more than Asik's price.
I can see how you would prefer Asik in the middle over Hawes and Lopez because they do have the reputation of being soft. However I guarentee the Rockets would trade Asik for Hawes in a second right now...mostly because Hawes could actually play next to Howard. Hawes has shot 20-43 from 3 and 50% from the field this season while averaging 15 points, 10 boards and nearly 2 blocks per game. I am a Sixers fan and I can say he finally figured it out this year now that the team really needs him and it is his contract year. These numbers are even from before his 28 point outburst tonight.
Asik wasn't grossly overpaid just slightly last year when he was a starter and defensive anchor but now that Dwight Howard is in town he is making way too much money for the value he presents to the Rockets. Maybe he can earn his money somewhere but it won't be in Houston.
People constantly seem to be thinking that Asik should get traded for a PF like Millsap or Ryan Anderson to play next to Dwight but if Terrence Jones continues to emerge as a strong starter that shouldn't matter much anymore. They should be able to trade him for any position of decent value, ideally a better defender(s) since they really seem to lack that in the games I've seen so far this year.