Aran Smith thinks Shane Larkin and Kelly Olynyk are better prospects than Shabazz Muhammad?
Are you kidding me? What is this guy smoking? Something wrong is going on here. Is somebody paying you to alter this mock?
Also, why in the world would Cleveland take Ben McLemore? First of all, Dion Waiters is much better. Ben McLemore is fine but he's an undersized shooting guard and unlike Waiters, he has absolutely zero point guard skills so the only position he'll ever play in the NBA is the 2.
I remember last year how everyone was saying we should've taken Thomas Robinson and traded Tristan Thompson, trying to make the pick look bad. Now, Robinson is looking like a bust and might be on his third team at the start of next season. I predict the same thing will happen to McLemore. He doesn't look all that good.
Calm down buddy. This is no longer a list of the top prospects in order, but now how the Draft is being rumored to play out. Muhammad is falling based on rumors, as well as Lakin rising. The only team I've heard high on Muhammad has been Boston, and I've heard Utah may be willing to take Larkin with their 1st pick. And just wait..... next week it'll be even different!
"but now how the Draft is being rumored to play out". What rumors?
Shabazz is underrated in this yers's mock ! S.Larkin is good but will struggle against NBA guards bodies ! McLemore is a top 5° pick, but not first IMO... even Olynyk < Shabazz , but he's a different kind/role player and probably he'll needs time like Bigs come from Ncaa...
Oh god you're going to get negged to hell for that second paragraph. I mean if you think McClemore is undersized what does that make waiters?
Waiters is a COMBO GUARD. He can play both guard positions. McLemore is just a shooting guard. I think I wrote it clear in that paragraph.
Is a hell of an athlete, is a true PG, and, while short, has an amazing vertical. Shabazz is a tweener, he's clearly undersized for the SF spot, and slow for the SG spot. I could see Shabazz falling past Larkin in this draft.
Shane Larkin tests out well as an athlete, actually he tests out as one of the most elite athletes ever at the combine. But he does not use this athleticism during in game situations. I think he will be solid and do like Utah taking him but lets not let the combine hype consume us because if you wanna go by the numbers he's a better athlete than Russel Westbrook. (Which is completely untrue)
Theres no way Muhammeds gonna be THAT bad.
There is one in every draft. They PLUMMET. He'll go well below his value...outside the lottery I'd be willing to bet. Possibly even mid 20's. It's not about how bad he will be, it's how he's perceived by the league on THAT night. Watch and see.
To be clear, my prediction is that he, Larkin, and Olynyk all fall between 15-20.
No one said anything about Shabazz being better or worse than Larkin, Olynyk
Shabazz is falling on mock drafts because of the red flags surrounding him and his family
And since when is 6'5" undersized for an ATHLETIC shooting gaurd?
I agree that Shabazz is way underrated right now, and will still probably go in the lottery IMO.there is no way a 40"+ vertical makes a 5'10" guy a lottery pick.
It isn't the 44 inch vert that makes him a lottery pick....it is the fact that he is the 2nd best PG in the draft that will make him a lotto selection...especially considering Utah needs a PG badly and doesn't want to add MCW because they already can't make an outside shot. Testing out that well athletically certainly didn't hurt his cause but I think the only thing it does is make a team feel better about his chances to hold his own defensively.
I think Shabazz can be a good player in the league but his best role will most likely be as a 6th man where he can play his assertive style at will without taking the ball out of your best players hands. If he can except coming off the bench and prove he is a good teammate and hard worker he could be a top 10 player from this draft easily. I just am not convinced he will have an easy time doing those things when he has been the man for as long as he has played basketball.
For those reasons I would say Larkin is a better prospect. Shane grew up with an MLB All-Star dad but he wasn't "the man" his whole life. I didn't even know who he was until this year when he led Miami to the ACC title. He has improved a lot over the 2 years he was at Miami and nearly doubled his production from his frosh season playing just 10 more minutes a game. Larkin is a great athlete but more importantly he seems to be a great leader as well which isn't something anybody is saying about Shabazz.
I would take Shabazz over Olynyk because I am not convinced that Olynyk will be as effective in the NBA with his lack of athleticism. He has a good jumpshot for a big guy but I think he will have a lot of trouble scoring inside against stronger defenders.
Larkin is definitely not the 2nd best PG in this draft. MCW will be gone by the time Utah is on the clock anyways.
1. Trey Burke
2. Dennis Schroeder
4. Shane Larkin
5. Myck Kabongo
All will be first round selections, I didn't list McCollum or Wolters as I feel they are more combo guards than PG. Larkin may be rate higher by Utah for the reason you stated tho, they have no outside shooting and Larkin has that gene to take and make that big shot.
Larkin rates higher than MCW for me for the reasons I stated. He is obviously a much better shooter than MCW and comes into the league with NBA range already. He is also quicker off the dribble and more experienced running the pick and roll. He is also just as good as a finisher as MCW inside despite being 6 inches shorter. Larkin appears to be a much better leader at this point as well and also knows what it means to be a professional athlete growing up with Barry Larkin as his dad.
The only things that makes MCW the pick over Larkin is his size and he is a better pure passer (also more turnover prone). I think in 3 years you will see the people who have Larkin ranked ahead of MCW weren't as crazy as you thought.
As for Schroeder I haven't seen enough of him to pretend I know what I am talking about. I watch college basketball and the NBA not the German league. I know some people may have watched his highlights and a couple games of his but most people are just recycling other peoples information and not bringing their own fresh take on him...so I will pass.
Shabazz is currently a small forward, who says he can play shooting gaurd but his athleticism AND game AND stats say otherwise.
I don't understand the negs on this. Shabazz is a 6'5" small forward. The guy averaged less than 1 assist per game in college. He plays almost no defense. His ability to shoot the NBA 3 is even mildly suspect. He's slow for a SG at the NBA level.
What you have is a guy who is certainly undersized for the SF spot. Nowhere near enough of a playmaker for a guard, although he can create shots for himself. He'd be an atrocious SG unless he miraculously develops both on-ball defense and the ability to pass the ball. Otherwise, he's a very one dimensional player and certainly not worth a top 10 pick.
Furthermore, he's got a very fresh dose of public stigmata about him that says he's a cancer to have on the team. Whether he deserves this or not is irrelevant. It WILL crush his draft stock. NBA GM's care more about job security than making a risky move on a guy. Many will pass on Shabazz. The mock draft board here already has him at #17. I like that spot, as Atlanta has 2 picks there and can afford to gamble with one of them. Unless they end up trading a pick, I would expect they make the move for him.
If they pass on him, he could easily fall all the way to #25 and the Clippers...who would almost have to draft the hometown kid.
Remember Paul Pierce was taken number ten in his draft, maybe if Shabazz falls to the mid teen it will make him hungrier and realize he has to work on both technical aspect (handle, right hand) but above all on his mental (toughness, will to defend, team spirit), it's not where you're drafted that matters but where u're at after your rookie contract
Shabazz was one mocked no1, and now 17? This is a joke, but still, the mock draft is based on predictions about team needs and potential risks. Shabazz could very well end up being the better player from this year's draft though, if he works hard and dedictes himself to the game.
He was mocked #8 a week ago and two days later he was #19. 'Nuff said.
Aran's current Mock Draft is trying to predict where players are going to be picked. He of course has his own feelings on the matter, as I am sure all of us do as well. However, his Big Board is a ranking of where he actually ranks the prospects. He has Shabazz Muhammad ranked 12 as of his current update, with Olynyk at 13 and Larkin at 22. Thus meaning, he does not necessarily view either as better prospects than Shabazz.
Of course, every team has their own Big Board and feelings on prospects. These are according to need, the teams' system and on their analytics of how this prospect will fit in. Aran, through his years of work on this site and his going to many events heavily attended by NBA scouts, has contacts that have information that he tends to use on his Mock Drafts. This is of course subject to change, as things happen and opinions, intel can change.
I agree that Shabazz is (highly) underrated as the 17th pick and that I find him to be a better prospect than Olynyk or Larkin. The fact is, they both play different positions and all it takes is for one team to feel they are better fits at this current juncture. However, I think that getting upset about a Mock Draft and using it as a gauge for where one actually sees a prospect is faulty when their is a Big Board with evidence to the contrary. Just because many people feel Shabazz should not slip to 17 does not mean that it is not a possible scenario. Plus, a lot can happen in 18 days.
Shabazz being a better pro prospect than Olynyk. Larkin I'm on the fence about, he (like Shabazz) will have to learn to be a NBA level defender in order to have a significant career.
Where I indicate a player will fall is more a reflection of the nature of NBA GM's than it is of the player's value. Otherwise, I'd have Dennis Schroeder in the top 5, Jeff Withey in the first round, Ricky Ledo in the first round, Rudy Gobert in the 2nd round, Lucas Nogueira in the early 2nd round, Kenny Kadji in the first round, Archie Goodwin (a player I'd consider an equal value to Shabazz, with a very similar game, with almost identical flaws) in the mid to late 1st round, and Nate Wolters, who some are finally listening to me about, as a 1st rounder. Shabazz I'd have somewhere around #12. Again, this is if I were placing value on players. This is not how I see them being drafted...this is my big board if I were a GM.
shabazz is falling this much is supposed character issues. the thing about him being a year older and this illusion that he is a bad teammate( which the media over played) are the main reasons why. shabazz showed better lateral agility at the combine than ben mclemore, and has been working since on making that and his ball handling even better. he came into ucla with so much hype that people are down on him because he did not score 25ppg like Durant did at texas. and yes he is a much better prospect than shane larkin or Kelly olynyk.
It isn't only character issues that have him dropping. If he had a great all around game and still had these character questions his stock wouldn't be falling this much. It is because he is a guy who can only help you when his shot is falling and appeared to be interested in his own accomplishments over the team. It is the combination of those two things that has people scared to draft him.
I'm a fan and am pulling for him, but even when defending some of the criticisms of bazz I have long since backed off trying to predict where he will go or how he will do. There are some very real concerns in terms of being able to create quality shots by getting separation. He settles for tough one handed runners and push shots in the lane. NBA caliber defenders with better length and strength then the guys he saw in college will make it very hard for him to shoot and his mentality is that of a bulldog who won't quit so he could become a black hole trying to force his shot when it's not there. That is a legitimate concern. On the flip side, he has such a nice compact shot with soft touch that looks the same no matterhow well he is defended that I could see him carving out a lot of nice mid range shots and scoring points. Some of his scoring abilities don't really translate to drills with cones where you take 2-3 hard dribbles and pulll up. His skills are showcased in a true live game environment. Even the 6-18 performance he had in the NCAA tournament loss to Minnesota, he found a way to get up good looks and just missed makeable shots. And there is some quality to having a guy who has the mind set I'm gonna get mine regardless.
I kind of rambled there, but I'll finish by saying I think we can all agree that regardless of whether we believe in his abilities or not, it will be very interesting to see how he does, more so then most prospects in recent years. Bazz is a polarizing figure.