[db123Participant]

 I think you guys are really underrating Wiggins. He will be a better player than Rudy Gay. For a player that’s offensively challenged as you say or with limited offensive ability he sure does know how to score. He had 41 points against West Virginia and 30 against Oklahoma state in back to back games. If he can score like this with having a limited offensive game then think about what he can do when he actually starts improving his offense. Not even putting out the fact that he averaged 17 a game. I think Cleveland should draft him number 1. 

[BallinmvpParticipant]

 I don’t think anyone is selling A. Wiggins short, I just think that embiid should be the #1 pick. I’m a huge wiggins fan too. Wiggins will be a solid player in the league.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

 I don’t think anyone is selling A. Wiggins short, I just think that embiid should be the #1 pick. I’m a huge wiggins fan too. Wiggins will be a solid player in the league.

[NickWayne87Participant]

 I think you’re underrating Rudy Gay who was also in contention for the number 1 pick of his draft though he didn’t ultimately go that high http://www.espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_id3005/rudy-gay

 

that looks like a career Andrew COULD have based on what we saw of him in college…..far short of the player he was hyped to be out of high school though….

 

 

 

[NickWayne87Participant]

 I think you’re underrating Rudy Gay who was also in contention for the number 1 pick of his draft though he didn’t ultimately go that high http://www.espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_id3005/rudy-gay

 

that looks like a career Andrew COULD have based on what we saw of him in college…..far short of the player he was hyped to be out of high school though….

 

 

 

[PhogifyParticipant]

How Rudy Gay was projected out of high school doesn’t matter, we’re talking about the comparison to Rudy Gay now, not what Rudy Gay was hyped up to be as a collegiate athlete.

[PhogifyParticipant]

How Rudy Gay was projected out of high school doesn’t matter, we’re talking about the comparison to Rudy Gay now, not what Rudy Gay was hyped up to be as a collegiate athlete.

[tuck243Participant]

 If we’re projecting him to Rudy now then you are basically saying he’s a mid range jump shooter…  Who does nothing for your team but score his own buckets…  Doesn’t play defense either…   I think when we compare players (at least me) we compare them at earlier stages of their NBA careers…  Also, give a slight projection on what they will end up as…  To compare today’s Jabari to today’s Melo is totally inaccurate…  Or an Embiid on May 26, 2014 to a primed Dream is dumb…  

[tuck243Participant]

 If we’re projecting him to Rudy now then you are basically saying he’s a mid range jump shooter…  Who does nothing for your team but score his own buckets…  Doesn’t play defense either…   I think when we compare players (at least me) we compare them at earlier stages of their NBA careers…  Also, give a slight projection on what they will end up as…  To compare today’s Jabari to today’s Melo is totally inaccurate…  Or an Embiid on May 26, 2014 to a primed Dream is dumb…  

[PhogifyParticipant]

 Nah, we are definitely making the comparison of what Wiggins will become, and I guess some people think he will become a Rudy Gay type of player. Personally, I think that comp is off as well, but what would be the point of comparing guys to their early careers rather than their prime?

[PhogifyParticipant]

 Nah, we are definitely making the comparison of what Wiggins will become, and I guess some people think he will become a Rudy Gay type of player. Personally, I think that comp is off as well, but what would be the point of comparing guys to their early careers rather than their prime?

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 It is impossible to underrate Rudy Gay.  He isn’t a good enough player to be "under rated" if you will.  In that sense he is properly rated, a selfish long range 2 point jump shooter who doesn’t bring much else to a team.  Teams get better when he leaves them.  

[PhogifyParticipant]

 I wonder when Kings fans will finally realize this.

[PhogifyParticipant]

 I wonder when Kings fans will finally realize this.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 It is impossible to underrate Rudy Gay.  He isn’t a good enough player to be "under rated" if you will.  In that sense he is properly rated, a selfish long range 2 point jump shooter who doesn’t bring much else to a team.  Teams get better when he leaves them.  

[jwall1Participant]

 Wiggins got 80% of his points on free throws (way too many fouls called) and easy layups/dunks in transition. He will not be able to do this in the NBA which is why he needs to refine his offensive skills. I think the Rudy Gay comparison with a higher ceiling is a pretty accurated comparison. If Embiid has a clean bill of health, Cleveland would be idiotic to take Wiggins over him. 

[jwall1Participant]

 Wiggins got 80% of his points on free throws (way too many fouls called) and easy layups/dunks in transition. He will not be able to do this in the NBA which is why he needs to refine his offensive skills. I think the Rudy Gay comparison with a higher ceiling is a pretty accurated comparison. If Embiid has a clean bill of health, Cleveland would be idiotic to take Wiggins over him. 

[HaleParticipant]

80% of his points on free throws and easy layups/dunks in transition? Such an incredibly uninformed statement.

[HaleParticipant]

80% of his points on free throws and easy layups/dunks in transition? Such an incredibly uninformed statement.

[JoeWolf1]

While I understand your point, you’re greatly exaggerating. Wiggins hit 43 three pointers, which is good for 129 points and 21% of his total output. He also did a great deal of slashing and got a lot of points off put backs due to his super quick 2nd jumps.

29% of his points were made off free throws. KU was not a transition based, fast paced team. Wiggins’ points, primarily came in the half court. I much more realistic % for FT and fast break points, would be about 45%. He also only took 6.5 FT’s per game, that’s hardly the Jordan treatment, and inaccurate to blame on bad calls.

[JoeWolf1]

While I understand your point, you’re greatly exaggerating. Wiggins hit 43 three pointers, which is good for 129 points and 21% of his total output. He also did a great deal of slashing and got a lot of points off put backs due to his super quick 2nd jumps.

29% of his points were made off free throws. KU was not a transition based, fast paced team. Wiggins’ points, primarily came in the half court. I much more realistic % for FT and fast break points, would be about 45%. He also only took 6.5 FT’s per game, that’s hardly the Jordan treatment, and inaccurate to blame on bad calls.

[NickWayne87Participant]

 here it is http://www.espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay……..as i said that looks like a career andrew could have….look at Gay in college http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCso8qP_Mm4

it’s not an insult….its just short of what you may want for him based on what his hype train led you to believe

 

 

[NickWayne87Participant]

 here it is http://www.espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay……..as i said that looks like a career andrew could have….look at Gay in college http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCso8qP_Mm4

it’s not an insult….its just short of what you may want for him based on what his hype train led you to believe

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

 They couldn’t shoot…  Wiggins and Embiid were unable to show us their games on a constant basis…  Embiid progressed over the year, but even when he did play a decent amount of minutes it was a small sample size because of that zone…   I would be careful to say Wiggins is "hype"….  

[tuck243Participant]

 They couldn’t shoot…  Wiggins and Embiid were unable to show us their games on a constant basis…  Embiid progressed over the year, but even when he did play a decent amount of minutes it was a small sample size because of that zone…   I would be careful to say Wiggins is "hype"….  

[tbest23Participant]

 I think once he becomes more consistent on his shot selection he’ll be a beast on offense. The thing I notice about Wiggins is his defense is very good. His lateral quickness, his length and overall athleticism is very good on the defensive end. Most really good players in the league are known for what they do on offense. KD, Melo, Curry, Griffin, etc. are really great on one end, the other not so much. Wiggins has a chance to be very special. Embiid seems to have great potential on both ends as well. Parker reallllly needs to work on his defense. A lot of good players in the draft. Hopefully the Bulls don’t screw up with their 2 first rounders. 

[tbest23Participant]

 I think once he becomes more consistent on his shot selection he’ll be a beast on offense. The thing I notice about Wiggins is his defense is very good. His lateral quickness, his length and overall athleticism is very good on the defensive end. Most really good players in the league are known for what they do on offense. KD, Melo, Curry, Griffin, etc. are really great on one end, the other not so much. Wiggins has a chance to be very special. Embiid seems to have great potential on both ends as well. Parker reallllly needs to work on his defense. A lot of good players in the draft. Hopefully the Bulls don’t screw up with their 2 first rounders. 

[festar35Participant]

The guy he resembles is Paul George, the difference will be who can be the more consistent offensive option.

To me PG is a capable 20-23ppg guy, but I feel that Wiggins can be better than that. It only depends who attacks the hoop more.

[festar35Participant]

The guy he resembles is Paul George, the difference will be who can be the more consistent offensive option.

To me PG is a capable 20-23ppg guy, but I feel that Wiggins can be better than that. It only depends who attacks the hoop more.

[Pro-21Participant]

I was amazed by how un-guard like he seemed this year. He has an incredible first step, length and vertical leap, but his fluidity and ability to create his own shot seemed non-existent. In his high school tape he seemed like a 6’8" Dwade. At Kansas, he looked far, far less adept in shot creating than Jabari Parker. Then you look at his lack of touch around the rim. For all of his run/jump athleticism, he looked very stiff too me when slashing. Very straight-lined. He is nothing like Kobe Bryant, Dwade, Kyrie Irving or even Dion Waiters when it comes to penetrating. Wiggins is at least as quick as all of them, but their handle enables them to slither into the paint and explode to the rim the way Adrian Peterson does out of the back court. They can toss up shots at ridiculous angles and get them to fall. Reverse Layups, body contorting shots, twisting drives, etc. I just didn’t see any hint of that at Kansas. I understand that they faced a lot of zone and didn’t really have knock down shooters, I feel that if he had the abilities he would have shown them at some point. I saw the quickness, but not the fluidity of a shooting guard, and maybe average fluidity for a small forward.

He did put up an impressive statline though. That gives me hope, but still, there are many question marks around Wiggins game.

[Pro-21Participant]

I was amazed by how un-guard like he seemed this year. He has an incredible first step, length and vertical leap, but his fluidity and ability to create his own shot seemed non-existent. In his high school tape he seemed like a 6’8" Dwade. At Kansas, he looked far, far less adept in shot creating than Jabari Parker. Then you look at his lack of touch around the rim. For all of his run/jump athleticism, he looked very stiff too me when slashing. Very straight-lined. He is nothing like Kobe Bryant, Dwade, Kyrie Irving or even Dion Waiters when it comes to penetrating. Wiggins is at least as quick as all of them, but their handle enables them to slither into the paint and explode to the rim the way Adrian Peterson does out of the back court. They can toss up shots at ridiculous angles and get them to fall. Reverse Layups, body contorting shots, twisting drives, etc. I just didn’t see any hint of that at Kansas. I understand that they faced a lot of zone and didn’t really have knock down shooters, I feel that if he had the abilities he would have shown them at some point. I saw the quickness, but not the fluidity of a shooting guard, and maybe average fluidity for a small forward.

He did put up an impressive statline though. That gives me hope, but still, there are many question marks around Wiggins game.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 Im tired of hearing about his 41 vs WVU.  I watched every game WVU played last year.  Do you know who was guarding Wiggins that whole game?  Eron Harris, a 6’2 SG that was a great spot up shooter and was the higest scoring SG in the Big 12.  He was anything but a defender.  He will never be in the NBA..  In that game, Wiggins got about 10 points out of the diamond press and if my memory is correct, he shot like 15 free throws.  Also, Perry Ellis stayed in foul trouble.  They needed someone to score and Wiggins was the guy that took extra shots..

I didnt see the OKS game but their go to defender was 6’3 Markel Brown.  A 6’8 guard should abuse a 6’3 guard..

[JoeWolf1]

You’re 100% right about the WVU game. He wreaked havoc in that press. It was still a jaw dropping performance by Wiggins, but he was everywhere. I came away more impressed by his defense and athletic ability being completely unleashed than the fact he dropped 41. How many guys shred press break by a team with an All Big 12 point guard so bad that it leads to 10 points? Impressive.

He didn’t just abuse small guards, though. He had success against Parker, 19 and 19 against Melvin Ejim, the OSU game he got covered by a lot of guys, Smart, Nash and Williams included. Just because his 41 came against a small team, you can’t assume it was 1 on 1 vs Brown or that he can only beat small guards.

[JoeWolf1]

You’re 100% right about the WVU game. He wreaked havoc in that press. It was still a jaw dropping performance by Wiggins, but he was everywhere. I came away more impressed by his defense and athletic ability being completely unleashed than the fact he dropped 41. How many guys shred press break by a team with an All Big 12 point guard so bad that it leads to 10 points? Impressive.

He didn’t just abuse small guards, though. He had success against Parker, 19 and 19 against Melvin Ejim, the OSU game he got covered by a lot of guys, Smart, Nash and Williams included. Just because his 41 came against a small team, you can’t assume it was 1 on 1 vs Brown or that he can only beat small guards.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 Im tired of hearing about his 41 vs WVU.  I watched every game WVU played last year.  Do you know who was guarding Wiggins that whole game?  Eron Harris, a 6’2 SG that was a great spot up shooter and was the higest scoring SG in the Big 12.  He was anything but a defender.  He will never be in the NBA..  In that game, Wiggins got about 10 points out of the diamond press and if my memory is correct, he shot like 15 free throws.  Also, Perry Ellis stayed in foul trouble.  They needed someone to score and Wiggins was the guy that took extra shots..

I didnt see the OKS game but their go to defender was 6’3 Markel Brown.  A 6’8 guard should abuse a 6’3 guard..

[HaleParticipant]

You sound awfully bitter about a game you won. He scored 41. If WVU is dumb enough to let a 6’2 guard cover a 6’8 wing then that is there fault. Also considering it was one of only two times all year a player scored over 30 against WVU, I’m going to say it was damn well deserved. 

[HaleParticipant]

You sound awfully bitter about a game you won. He scored 41. If WVU is dumb enough to let a 6’2 guard cover a 6’8 wing then that is there fault. Also considering it was one of only two times all year a player scored over 30 against WVU, I’m going to say it was damn well deserved. 

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

I’m not bitter. However, NBA teams dont press and he will never see a 6’2 defender in the NBA. It was very impressive. I just dont think it means anything. And like Joe said that game was more about him being athletic than him scoring. Its just that every time someone says Wiggins doesnt have a killer instinct, people point to this WVU game. Those people are usually box score readers instead of game watchers.

Fanboys will call me “bitter” or a hater but truth is, the WVU game was the exception. He does not have a killer instinct.

He is not Scottie Pippen. He is not Clyde Drexler. He is not Dominique Wilkins. He will be good, not great.

IMO, and call me a hater or whatever you want, he is Nichols Batum. Thats only if he buys into playing good defense every night. If he doesn’t, he is Gerald Green.

[HaleParticipant]

I won’t call you a hater. I’ll call you misinformed. He showed a killer instinct multiple times throughout the year with the best example being against Duke. So many people mistake his lack of emotion for a lack of effort/killer instinct and it’s sickening. T-Mac played the same way and he had a killer instinct. Wiggins is probably the most unfairly judged player I’ve seen since LeBron. It’s ridiculous the levels people go to just to try and discredit everything he does.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 I didnt watch every game he played.  However, i saw him a lot in HS because he was here in WV.  I know his HS coach personally and have had multiple convos with him about Wiggins.  I wont say exactly what i was told but Andrew was forced to score a lot of times.  He doesn’t do it naturally.  Maybe his year at Kansas changed that.

I am not trying to discredit Wiggins.  He is an amazing athlete but he is mostly potiental.  Its a dangerous word.  I see him more as a do it all glue man rather than a 25 points a night guy.  

[HaleParticipant]

I see where you’re coming from but everyone said these same things about Demar Derozan. Passive, can’t shoot, can’t handle, scored of dunks, and is an athlete not a basketball player. Well now he’s an All Star who just averaged 23 ppg. Wiggins is not only far better than Derozan at the same stage, he’s a better shooter, athlete and defender than current Derozan. That bodes well for him. 

[HaleParticipant]

I see where you’re coming from but everyone said these same things about Demar Derozan. Passive, can’t shoot, can’t handle, scored of dunks, and is an athlete not a basketball player. Well now he’s an All Star who just averaged 23 ppg. Wiggins is not only far better than Derozan at the same stage, he’s a better shooter, athlete and defender than current Derozan. That bodes well for him. 

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

 I didnt watch every game he played.  However, i saw him a lot in HS because he was here in WV.  I know his HS coach personally and have had multiple convos with him about Wiggins.  I wont say exactly what i was told but Andrew was forced to score a lot of times.  He doesn’t do it naturally.  Maybe his year at Kansas changed that.

I am not trying to discredit Wiggins.  He is an amazing athlete but he is mostly potiental.  Its a dangerous word.  I see him more as a do it all glue man rather than a 25 points a night guy.  

[HaleParticipant]

I won’t call you a hater. I’ll call you misinformed. He showed a killer instinct multiple times throughout the year with the best example being against Duke. So many people mistake his lack of emotion for a lack of effort/killer instinct and it’s sickening. T-Mac played the same way and he had a killer instinct. Wiggins is probably the most unfairly judged player I’ve seen since LeBron. It’s ridiculous the levels people go to just to try and discredit everything he does.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

I’m not bitter. However, NBA teams dont press and he will never see a 6’2 defender in the NBA. It was very impressive. I just dont think it means anything. And like Joe said that game was more about him being athletic than him scoring. Its just that every time someone says Wiggins doesnt have a killer instinct, people point to this WVU game. Those people are usually box score readers instead of game watchers.

Fanboys will call me “bitter” or a hater but truth is, the WVU game was the exception. He does not have a killer instinct.

He is not Scottie Pippen. He is not Clyde Drexler. He is not Dominique Wilkins. He will be good, not great.

IMO, and call me a hater or whatever you want, he is Nichols Batum. Thats only if he buys into playing good defense every night. If he doesn’t, he is Gerald Green.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

Only time will tell, I honestly don’t see him dominating out the gate but a couple years and then we can see.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

Only time will tell, I honestly don’t see him dominating out the gate but a couple years and then we can see.

[deshawynkeys91Participant]

hale there is no way wiggins is a better shooter than derozan right now.  Derozan has one of the best mid range game in the league.  However if wiggins has the work ethic that derozan has that is going to be the greatest factor to weather he succeed or not.

[deshawynkeys91Participant]

hale there is no way wiggins is a better shooter than derozan right now.  Derozan has one of the best mid range game in the league.  However if wiggins has the work ethic that derozan has that is going to be the greatest factor to weather he succeed or not.

[HaleParticipant]

He’s not one of the best midrange shooters in the league. The league average on shots from 16-23 feet is 38.3%. Derozan shot 39.56%. He’s basically league average. Wiggins is absolutely a better shooter from beyond the arc and I’d be willing to bet next season he’ll be right around league average from midrange too. Maybe I shouldn’t have said Wiggins is a better overall shooter now but I’ll bet he catches up very quickly. He’s shown way more ability at the same stage.

 

 

 

 

 

[HaleParticipant]

He’s not one of the best midrange shooters in the league. The league average on shots from 16-23 feet is 38.3%. Derozan shot 39.56%. He’s basically league average. Wiggins is absolutely a better shooter from beyond the arc and I’d be willing to bet next season he’ll be right around league average from midrange too. Maybe I shouldn’t have said Wiggins is a better overall shooter now but I’ll bet he catches up very quickly. He’s shown way more ability at the same stage.

 

 

 

 

 

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