Andre Igoudala has got to go
great 3rd option... Decent 2nd, and horrible 1st....I have been a Sixers fan my entire life.. I have endured the bad seasons with Dana Barros, Spoon, Sharone Wright, Etc.(other than the erving era, barkley era, and AI (1) era its been a rough go... this BS has to stop... Iggy would be great on a GREAT TEAM.... IE: a tm like the lakers, spurs, blazers, im sure you see my point.. Dude should not be touching the ball with the game on the line EVER... He can be a facilitator and a great defender, but other than grabbing boards, passing, and defending he should solely be a guy who takes the ball to the hole..
Lets put Evan Turner in and see what he can do on 30-35 minutes a night.. Lets give Lou Will significant minutes.. Should speights stay or should he go. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN ANYTHING, so lets see who on this roster is worth a damn....
imo here is who i would start
PG - Jrue / Lou will (splitting minutes / Lou can see time at the 2 as well while covering 1's, while jrue covers the 2's)
SG - ET - yes hes not a great shooter, but is Iggy even a decent shooter?
SF - Thad / Nocioni (i like both of these guys)
PF - Brand (playing much better this yr)
C - CLUELESS... Hawes sucks, Battie is old, I guess throw Speights in there and wish for the best. He cant defend but he can score when given minutes...
Ride or die with this lineup, and make adjustments accordingly. Trades will come by the deadline, but lets see what we need and who is worth keeping. This iggy experiment should be null n void by now.
Again this seems like an iggy rant, but i do think hes a baller.. Just needs a change of scenery, which would not only be best for him, but also best in the respective that Philly can invest in their future now.. Why not? Are they playing for a title? HELL NO, lets get it done, Thorn / stefanski / Collins..
Don't understand what the team was even thinking. I though Cousins was the more logical pick for them. Turner is young so I can't judge him this early, but not very impressed considering his hype. Iggy has never been a good 1st option, and won't be so they wasted years playing him that way as well. Not sold on Holiday being the answer yet either. He has potential,but does not seem to have leadership qualities, or a consistent enough J. He is young, and just does not bring it everynight.
Iguodala isn't really appreciated in Philadelphia because he tries to be a #1 option but he's not. If you put Iguodala with a superstar like Carmelo,Rose,Dirk or someone like that he'd excel and you'd see his true value. He really does need to go cause he'd do so well somewhere else.
it is also hindering the development of other players.. If we were winning I wouldnt be complaining.. Thad should play the 3 / even ET at the 3 in spots....
one pickup i have fallen in love with is Nocioni... Blue collar cat, straight philly style..
last night our best lineup was lou will, jrue holiday, ET, Thad, Brand... I know you can not survive with a 6'8" center and a 6'8" tweener sf / pf playing the 4, but this lineup showed the most chemistry.. "changes in store i hope"
Iguodala does need to be moved, but let's slow down a little. He's playing in a new system and still healing from a wrist injury he suffered during the Worlds.
He'd be better as a second or third option, but he has led the 76ers to the playoffs as their first option. And why would you post he shouldn't "EVER" have the ball in his hands when the game is on the line? You act like he's never made plays or came up big in that situation.
As I posted above... Iguodala does need to be moved, but stop overreacting just because the 76ers lost last night.
LMFAO... overreacting cause philly lost last night? 27-55 last yr my friend, lol this is more than just last night... and your a fool if you think he led them to the playoffs... That was Andre Miller.. get your facts right, and know ur Philly knowledge before u claim someone is overreacting..
iggy has about 2-3 memorable plays at end of gms.. Most notable was his lucky 3 ball (considering he cant shoot) over kobe bryant to beat the lakers...
it wasnt over kobe, and yes it was lucky.
true true... i stand corrected.. perez it was Trevor Ariza right? i think its been 2 yrs so im not 100 % positive... I do remember it was at the top of the key though..
yeah, ariza had his hands down like he was gonna play the drive with about 2 seconds left, smh.
I don't need to have a ton of 76ers knowledge to know that Iguodala was the leading scorer both seasons they went to the playoffs. Miller was probably the most important player on that team, but he wasn't the first option.
And what about the game winning shot Iguodala made vs Orlando during game one of the 2009 *playoffs*? The Magic were up 18-20 points in the 4th quarter and Iguodala led that comeback and hit the game winner.
Last year was a bad year. A new coach (third coach in two seasons), who was terrible... He went away from the team's strengths. Injuries and young guys. And the loss of Miller hurt.
Be patient and let Collins put his print on this team. This is still a fairly young team with a weak front court. They'll win more than 27 games this season.
i do love Collins indianabasketball.. ill give philly this, they are playing hard.... Problem being is they seem to show up most offensively when they have nothing to lose playing from behind in the 4th quarter.. Turnovers are killing us as well.. I have faith in doug Collins though, so optimism remains..
Be patient. It's only been a week lol.
Collins is adjusting to his team. The team is adjusting to him. Young point guard. Weak frontcourt. Iguodala is playing with a wrist injury.
I doubt they'll make the playoffs, but this will be an improved team.
Guys he needs to be moved plain and simple and hes going to be moved, watch the games... Evan Turner was on the floor in crunch time at SG and Iggy wasnt, Iggy had 1 foul and was healthy..He also played in OT but I think Turner wouldve given them a better chance at winning. Iggy had a couple seconds to get of a shot and really struggled missing a horrible attempt.
Iggy isnt a 1st option by any means, he is a complimentary guy who does many things well...but NOT scoring. I think he would thrive in Atlanta next to JJ and Horford.
Spieghts and Iggy
Smith and (Jordan) Crawford
I would do that trade in a heartbeat, I'd even through in a draft pick to get it done now.
here is Philly's best lineup:
If you've watched the Sixers you'd know that Marreese Speights is not starter material, he's been garbage all year, plays no defense, doesn't pass, and he is a mental head case. Brand at C and Young at PF is their best lineup.
No use ignoring the e-mails and the comments and the discussion stemming from last night's loss to the Washington Wizards. The main topic coming out of the overtime loss was the play of Andre Iguodala, his future with this team, whether there should be a future with this team, whether it's time to trade him (or past time to trade him), whether the team plays better without him, whether it's time to play Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young, etc.
Thought we'd at least gather some statistics, make some observations, and just open up the forum. Through four games this season, Iguodala is averaging 15.3 points, 6.8 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 3.5 turnovers in 38.3 minutes a game. Iguodala is shooting 44.4 percent from the field, 36.4 percent from three (4 for 11 from three), and 52.9 percent from the line (9 for 17 from the line). Let's look specifically at last night's game: Iguodala played 38 minutes, 18 seconds and finished with 12 points, 9 assists, 4 turnovers, 3 rebounds.
Now, we know the +/- statistic is not entirely indicative of impact on the floor, there are certainly other factors that alter a player's score, but it's at least a rough estimate of how things went while a player was in the game. On Tuesday night, of the team's starters, Iguodala (-6) was the only player with a negative +/-, with Elton Brand (+11) having the best on the team. But the interesting thing is that the players that many people are arguing should be on the floormore (Lou Williams, Evan Turner, Marreese Speights, to name a few) had bad +/- scores as well. Turner (-15) was the worst. Williams (-9) scored at will in the fourth quarter, but put the Wizards back in the game in the first half by shooting 0 for 7 and allowing John Wall to get going. Speights (-6) scored 6 points in about 17 minutes of action.
So those are the numbers. Objectively, Iguodala's numbers are not bad; he nearly posted a double-double and was a part of the starting unit that jumped out to a 20-6 lead. The issue -- and it's a big one -- is the play in the fourth quarter and overtime. Iguodala did not play down the stretch of regulation. He came out of the game with 10:19 left in the fourth quarter, his team trailing 77-68, and checked back in with 17.3 seconds left, his team ahead 102-99, as the Sixers attempted to preserve their lead and grab their first victory if the season. Until the final defensive play, Iguodala was basically a non-factor (excluding the "near turnover" when he tried to inbound it quickly with about 10 seconds left, but the ball stayed with the Sixers). The final play, with 3.1 seconds left, is tough to diagnose. If you watch the replay, there's really no excessive error made by Iguodala, but you can make a case that these things seem to always happen to him, so it becomes a case more than anything of just frustration by repetition. For more in-depth analysis on that play, you can read last night's post: 3.1 seconds.
Iguodala's overtime minutes are a little more suspect. He played all 5:00, finished 1 for 3 from the field, 1 for 2 from the line, wih 3 points and 1 steal. Nothing terribly disturbing about those numbers except for two reoccuring problems: the missed free throw and the missed shot at the end. In an overtime where the Wizards finished 6 for 6 from the line and the Sixers were 1 for 2, that missed free throw was obviously the difference. We've also seen Iguodala miss a lot of crucial free throws in the last year. During the 2008-09 season, Iguodala was actually quite effective in end-of-game situations, even nailing a jumper at the buzzer to give the Sixers a one-game lead over the Orlando Magic in that playoff series. But last year was a slew of missed jumpers and 1 for 2 performances at the free throw line. Because that's fresh on everyone's mind, last night's overtime becomes increasingly frustrating. A missed free throw and then, at the end of regulation, a very difficult missed jump shot.
Anyone who watched that overtime knows that Iguodala was not the option on that final play. The ball was in Lou's hands, he drove to the middle and decided against going up (afterwards Doug Collins said he assumed Lou saw a shot blocker coming over and didn't think he had a chance), kicking out to Iguodala, who was not really in a great position to make a play. At that point, you have to ask yourself whether fault lies entirely on Iguodala's shoulders: He tried to make something out of nothing, yes, but he also settled for a jumper rather than penetrating and getting to the rim. And it seems like this last point is what really frustrates Sixers' fans, because they've seen too much of the arching, low-percentage jumper at the end of games.
All of this brings us to the conclusion: What's the solution to this problem? Nothing simple, that's for sure. It sounds as if many people want to trade Iguodala to increase minutes for Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner. The idea behind this thinking is clear: "We know what we have in Iguodala, his contract is hefty, and we don't feel it's worth the price," PLUS, "We don't really know what we have in Turner and Young, their contracts are entry-level, and we need to decide what those players are worth as we move forward in building a winner." Another line of thinking is that Iguodala unfairly bears the burden for this team. He's often given the ball with only a few seconds left on the shot clock, forced to take a difficult shot, and that includes end-of-game situations. He has no post presence allowing him to penetrate to the basket, so the first step for the Sixers should be to acquire a dependable, scoring center, which could highlight Iguodala's game (and the game's of all the remaining players).
The question: Should the Sixers trade away a known quantity (Iguodala) for an unknown?
The Sixers need to evaluate their entire roster and see what trades/moves can be made. Yes, that includes Iguodala. But it's not limited to him, either, because this combination of players is not a winning combination.
"Iguodala's overtime minutes are a little more suspect. He played all 5:00, finished 1 for 3 from the field, 1 for 2 from the line, wih 3 points and 1 steal. Nothing terribly disturbing about those numbers except for two reoccuring problems: the missed free throw and the missed shot at the end. In an overtime where the Wizards finished 6 for 6 from the line and the Sixers were 1 for 2, that missed free throw was obviously the difference. We've also seen Iguodala miss a lot of crucial free throws in the last year. During the 2008-09 season, Iguodala was actually quite effective in end-of-game situations, even nailing a jumper at the buzzer to give the Sixers a one-game lead over the Orlando Magic in that playoff series. But last year was a slew of missed jumpers and 1 for 2 performances at the free throw line. Because that's fresh on everyone's mind, last night's overtime becomes increasingly frustrating. A missed free throw and then, at the end of regulation, a very difficult missed jump shot."
Trade him, you wont win with him there. Whether he likes it or not he is the guy in that enviroment, the players believe he is the guy, and he doesnt fit into that mould. Trade him.
I bet Minnesota would have jumped all ove ran Igoudala for Jefferson trade during the offseason, they had their chance, that would have been a great contrbution adding low post scoring. DeMarcus Cousins would be another guy who could have fit this team amazingly, especially with his killer instinct and determination with the ball at clutch moments.
Dana Barros, never got enough love!
barros had that 50 + gm i do remember.. He was a stud on an inferior tm....
ohcanada - Several trade scenarios I would welcome at this point, including expiring contracts... Although gettting something in return imminently wouldnt be so bad either.
Would Dallas be interested in Iggy for Caron Butler, Ajinca/Mahimi and a pick perhaps? Or even NOH with Peja's expiring deal, pick and a young piece for Iggy and a makeweight. NOH get Iggy and can shift Ariza to SG this gives CP another complimentary running mate, Philly get all the cap relief that Peja's contract brings and go totally long term rebuilding mode.
I'm hopeful Philly trades him to a contender. I want to see him get put in a situation were the team is actually good and he can play his natural role as a 2nd or 3rd option.
I have been meaning to make a post like this for over a week after the first 2 games. I figured I would wait and see if he gets better. But last night I had it. Iggy needs to go.
Iggy barely even played in the 4th quarter when we came back and took the lead and only got in long enough for them to tie the game. Coincidence? No Iggy succcs. Thad Young is shooting 65% this year from the field and needs to get the ball more. Lou Williams is averaging 20 points a game and needs the ball more. And everything Iggy is doing for our team Turner can do anyway with the potential to be better at it.
One trade scenario that I have been dying for them to do is Iggy for Chris Kamen. Eric Gordon, Iggy, and Blake Griffin provide a super fast, and strong athletic 3some that would provide plenty of entertainment. And Jordan looks like he's ready to start out there and compliments Griffin better then Kamen.
No why would we trade Iggy for Caron Butler that makes zero sense we want to trade him to clear up room at our wing positions not add another overpaid wing player.
Id like to see him succeed too.. I agree with you. who do u see as best fit? as a contender with a need for a player of his skill set?
I disagree about Iggy late. People forget: He was a #1 on a 45 win team who also played Orlando tough in 09.
However, I do agree he needs to go. I would love him for my Knicks but if not, I think the best fit for him would be like Dallas. I think he's a solid #2 type but should thrive as a #3.
45 win team? LOL...... philly hasnt been a 45 win tm since the iverson days my man.... Another statetician gone wrong..
41-41... or 40-42 the two playoff yrs.... they havent been over .500 in a minute.
My bad. I knew they won 40. I overshot it. My bad.
Still, I feel Iggy is a good player and he not a bad play for a whole bunch of teams in the L.
But, be careful what you wish for: You lose Iggy and don't get back a solid piece, you won't win 30 games.
Theres a few teams that could use Iggy's services and have enough talent to trade for him without losing much, the Bulls, Thunder, Magic, Warriors, Bucks, Suns, and Clippers. Denver could also trade for Iggy without involving Melo.
After watching the first 4 games with Iggy we arent going to win 30 games with him.
Iggy virtually has no impact on whether we win or lose its really quite incredible.
And Dre Miller was the reason them teams were good, take Miller off them teams and the Sixers are choosing between Oden and Durant.
So Andre Iguadala is the reason the team sucks?
Not those young players all Sixers fans like but are not producing?
No Andre Iguadola isn't the main reason we suck, but when we do good he's not the reason for that either.
So the point is we need to get rid of this enigmatic basketball indifference who virtually has no impact on the outcome of games unless its somebody hitting the tying shot in your face or you missing the last shot.
Everything he does for the team Turner can already do. We just don't need him or his unwillingness to drive.
Thad and Turner need to play starter minutes since they are our future.
are you from philly... philly suburbs, or south jersey... assuming one of the 3 if you are a sixers fan.. Just curious. Life long sixers , phillies, eagles fan here...
also based on tms u mentioned. Bulls, Thunder, Magic, Warriors, Bucks, Suns, and Clippers. Denver
chicago, bucks, and denver - what would interest u?? Bucks are stacked at SF, chicago has deng / brewer, and denver im not sure what you would want from them..
however the thunder - definitely have pieces i like.. harden, ibaka, sefolosha
suns - jrich, R lopez, not sure what else id consider.
clippers - id love EG, but something tells me we dont have a chance to get him.
From what I saw
Jrue Holiday is not ready yet.
Evan Turner looks good but he looks alike Iggy from 2nd season from what I saw. Needs to develop those skills that makes him into a " star"
Spieghts is a offensive big, terrible defensive big
Lou Williams is a combo guard who should be off the bench.
Also, your not getting a legit young big for Iggy. So Robin Lopez is a no. I think Philly could get cap space and a solid big but not a great big.
Yes 19134 is actually my zip code you can google to have a picture of what part of Philly I am from....The Sixers are still my favorite act in town despite every other team competing for a championship. And Vick is about to get his Iverson on in an Eagles uniform which will be fun to watch.
And its funny you mentioned all those other names cuz I was a huge Dana Barros fan and still remember him getting ripped off in the 3 point shootout. And who was the other 3 point shooter we have, Trevor Ruffin? Dude use to hit shots from one step past half court.
Thunder I really would like to get Jeff Green from them or Ibaka packaged with some contracts.
The Clippers is my favorite trade I really wanna see this get done. Iggy for Kamen. Hell throw in Hawes. Iggy and Hawes for Kamen. Easy enough. And it helps both franchises. It also alleviates some of the pain of us passing on Favors and Cousins. FYI Favors is averaging a double double off the bench so he is what we thought he could be.
The Suns exactly J RIch and his expiring contract and Lopez. J Rich is underrated and could put up 20 a game for us. Lopez can be like a spanish Dalembert for us.
Denver I would take something like JR. Smith and Nene.
And the Bulls I would trade Iggy straight up for Deng. I heard the Bulls were interested in Iggy. Either way Deng would be a better fit even tho he is redundant with Young, Deng is atleast a good outside shooter.
Holiday is the last person I am worried about he will be fine. Collins is being a little demanding of him right now. Lou Williams can average 20 points in this league. The more I see him play the more I am convinced he should be our go to scorer.
Thad Young is playing out of his mind but only getting like 23 minutes a night.....Why? Young is shooting 65% and averaging 11 points. Speights can really score but he will never know how to play defense so we can move him now too.
ok no doubt... all my family is from northeast... red lion rd and formerly academy road.. i grew up outside atlantic city... curiousity struck me, dont run into many philly fans on here.
i like your denver scenario + JR smith is from Lakewood, NJ (about an hr from philly) maybe a scenery closer to home would suit him.
cave man would be great too...
If we could get Budinger and Patterson in a package to the Rockets for Iguodala that would be great, those 2 pieces would fit very well with the Sixers and fill needs.
I don't see the Thad Young thing either. He's a nice 6th man but I don't see the whole "He should be a starter because he's a stud" talk. I mean, he could be like Detlef Schrempf who put up like great numbers at a 6th man. He was a solid rebounder and scorer who always does well against 2nd stringers.
Why would the Clippers give up Kaman? He's a top 7 Center in the NBA.
I wanted JR Smith in that draft after watching him play in the McDonalds All American. He was so athletic, got into passing lanes, and had a deadly outside shot. I really thought it was a toss up between him and Josh Smith in that draft.
I was almost certain we were going to get JR tho even with Iggy on the board. Coming out of college I honestly didn't think Iggy we ever be that good. He has been better then I thought tho.
thad is averaging 11 ppg in 23 minutes like dude said.. iggy is averaging 15 in numerous minutes.. so im not sure why u would question guys wanting thad to get the nod to see what hes made of... i like thad, i dont know if hes a starting 3 or not, but i know he can score so lets give him a go..
Because I seen a THOUSAND times of a player who scores in low PT and when givin a bigger workload, cannot produce the way he did coming off the bench.
As a Sixer fan, you can disagree but I feel Thad is a fantastic 6th man. Not a starter.
you may be right, but were not winning.. Id give it a test..
You are crazy thinking Thad is not a starter. And Thad has already proven he can produce is given the minutes. He averaged 15 points his second year in the league and has gotten way better since then. His body has matured, he has added muscle weight, and he has added range to his shooting.
There is no reason to believe that Thad Young is not the starting forward of the future. He plays great defense, and is an opportunistic scorer who can also score in iso situations. He will outquick bigger opponents, and he will outmuscle smaller opponents. There aren't too many forwards in the league as quick and as strong as he is with his combination of leaping ability and body control, and he is only 22, Thad's time to shine is now.
How am I crazy? There are tons of examples in the past of players producing off the bench (better then Thad) and once giving the starting role, didn't play as well.
I say why take away a given? If you know Thad is a 15-6-3 guy off the bench, why even touch that? Just let him be. If you wanna give him more PT? Cool but not a starting role. I wouldn't do it.
Yeah this is true but it usually involves older players who were never blue chip prospects, and or lottery picks below the age of 23.
Thad Young is not a candidate for somebody you want to develop into a bench guy.
That would be like the Bulls never starting Deng saying he is just a bench player.
Don't you think if a bench guy is only 22 and averaging 15 n 5 with all the physical tools in the world, wouldn't you maybe like maybe wanna give him a chance at starting?
i would make a deal to get Iggy out of town but only for a Center with some worth...If he was a Defender in the paint and high volume rebounder great...We do need to see what Turner and Thad can offer in the Starting line up...I'm also In the belief that Lou Williams has to go too...He's a high volume shooter and that's getting in the way of Holiday and Turner...Iggy is an All World Talent...He needs a star and low post presence to really be seen as a great player...
Holiday is a good scorer but he's always looking over his shoulder,Lou is being showcased a lot and taking away Minutes from Jrue...Turner can stand to be moved into the Starting line-up...I have no problems with Iggy on my team...Brand has been playing good and he's looking like his old self...
Hawes has been the let down in the starting lineup...He really needs to start hitting the glass and busting ass...Speights was great in SL and PS and now they havent palyed him...He's one of my favorite young guys and should be played more like Utah used Millsap...Lou Williams has been playin well for a 6'2 ball hog...he's always taking hard shots and gets too nuch time IMO...they have to be trying to get his value up...Nocioni has been the hard nosed guy we love in Philly...He's a safe fall back Forward if we Trade Iggy or Thad...
As a Die Hard Philly Fan we need to have the worst possible year record wise while still playing hard and developing our young talent...We Need a Top 3 Pick in 2011...And we Need To look at Perry Jones and Jared Sulliger...Also Fab Melo a little lower in the lottery would be Nice too...Maybe Lou Will can net us another mid lottery steal like Thad,Holiday and Speights...Kapono has no business in starting Lineup...he's an expiring contract and should be treated as such...
Perry Jones in 2011...
Philly fans overrate Thaddeus Young soooooo much, it's actually funny. I remember themicrowave saying Thaddeus Young would be better than Iguodala by last year. And so many people agreed, just because he averaged 14 ppg in his 2nd year. If anybody watches and understands basketball, they could see that he wasn't going to get better than that.
Thaddeus Young is a player that should be coming off the bench for any NBA team. He's a matchup ploy. A combo forward. And to make it worse, he's a very mediocre rebounder, and he's not a very good defender against SF's or PF's. He's versatile enough to switch on picks, but he's not a strong defender at all. I would make him like my 7th or 8th man off the bench if my team is actually good.
If Philly trades Iguodala, they will be continue to be among the worst teams in the NBA. Alot of people are overrating the young talent they have and unfairly blaiming Iguodala. He's the best player on the team and the leader, but he can only do so much.
Microwave...when Thad wins a Gold Medal with team USA he can start over Iggy. Iggy does so many things Young can never do its unbelievable. I cant even believe you would think of stating him over Andre. Igoudala is not a first option, you guys need to understand anytime you make a 3rd option your 1st option you are going to fail.