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And this is why Colangelo should be FIRED!

HotSnot
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And this is why Colangelo should be FIRED!

The Oklahoma City Thunder spoke to the Toronto Raptors about a trade centered on James Harden for Jonas Valanciunas.

The Raptors 'quickly rebuffed' the interest from Sam Presti in the trade.

The Thunder eventually traded Harden to the Rockets while also acquiring the Raptors' lottery guaranteed pick.

Valanciunas averaged 8.9 points and 6.0 rebounds in 23.9 minutes per game during his rookie season.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227280/Raptors-Quickly-Rebuffed-Val...

Everyone blasted the Rockets for building a team 6 or 7 deep at the PF position. This is important to note because its the same linear thinking that had the Raptors pass on taking Andre Drummond in the draft. Instead of looking for players to fill out your roster with the best talent available to you, the Raps under Colangleo's tutelage have always looked at filling holes. This is why seemingly every draft Toronto ends up with mediocre results and have not been to the playoffs in quite a few seasons now.

In the 2011 draft the Raps needed a center and Valanciunas fell into their laps at #5. A happy coincidence that the best player on the board also filled a positional need. Rarely has this been the case in Raptors draft history. If he had gone to the Cav's at 4, I can only wonder who the Raps would have taken at that spot instead?

In the 2012 draft with Valanciunas set to come over for his rookie season the Raps drafted Ross (who should develop into a "nice" player)... filling a positional need instead of taking the best player on the board which just so happened to be another center in Drummond. At this point you almost start to think that 7 foot centers with huge potential grow on tree's. They don't..as the last 10 years of Raps basketball will tell you.

This brings us to the start of this past season when Harden was on the market and Presti was working the phones. Harden is the player every team dreams of at the SG position and he can close games for you. Colangelo doesn't feel comfortable trading his prized center after looking for a capable one for so long (sorry Jermaine O'Neal). This means Colangelo passed on an Allstar shooting guard so he could keep a youthful center. Colangleo also passed on another center with just as much potential...if not more in Drummond, so he could draft Ross and fill a need that Harden was going to fill at an all star level.

Now the Raps have Valanciunas and Ross instead of Harden and Drummond.

Next up for the Raps was finding that closer they so desperately needed. The biggest trade of the season ended up being the Raps absorbing Rudy Gays ridiculous contract to fill their alpha dog roll and close games.... a trade they could have likely pulled off with Harden and Drummond on the roster anyways. The Raps could have also chose to pass on the opportunity to pay Gay more money then they would be paying Harden for much improved efficiency.

In any event the Raps could have had a core of Gay, Harden and Drummond... or atleast Harden and Drummond. Two AAA players any team would be extremely pleased to have.

At the moment the Raps have none... and they signed DeRozan to 10 mil a season, another black mark on the talent judging abilities of this sad franchise.

Whats worse is these decisions as they presented themselves were all staring Colangelo straight in the face. They were very obvious to virtually everyone but Colangelo. Its almost like he tries to be too clever and ends up talking himself out of the easy decisions.

If we continue to go back farther under Colangelos management, its more of the same.

Lets stop the insanity and FIRE Colangelo. If the Raps make the playoffs next year it will be inspite of Colangelo, not because of him.


Tdot Prophet
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I remember back in 04 we

I remember back in 03 we couldve had KG for the number 4 pick, antonio davis, Mo Pete

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i rather take the Tony parker

i rather take the Tony parker trade over Hardens especially since our Point guards sucked

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You cannot dwell on the past,

You cannot dwell on the past, the Raptors got a somewhat bright future. Especially with all your perimeter/ wing players. Rudy Gay and Demar Derozan seem to mimic Vince and T-Mac in terms of athleticism and fast break points. As for Valanciunas he has shown signs of being a solid center. Then you have guys like Ross and Anderson coming off the bench so a lot of more athletes and scoring right there. As for Colangelo, I am not sure if he is the coach of the future but he is a very good defensive coach and with another full training camp and the chance for the team to develop more chemistry he will be able to implement his system a lot easier next year, so he deserves at least another year but the Raptors have to make the playoffs next year. Also your team is not the only team that messed up on Harden, do not forget that OKC offered Harden for Beal, the Wizards refused and can you imagine Harden and Wall as a back court, SMH! OKC will also regret trading Harden in general, I am hoping Harden goes off on his former team, and exploding with highlights and maybe even winning a game or 2.

HotSnot
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Not sure who gave you +1 but

Not sure who gave you +1 but Colangelo is the GM (and has been for 7 years) not the coach. I'm not gonna neg you but just saying...

doubledribbler
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Harden

Just curious, but why do people like the idea of Harden and Wall together? Both guys need the ball to be at their best, especially since Wall cannot shoot. I don't think those two guys fit well enough and then Beal is super cheap, which I would believe OKC not only liked his ability to come in and play right away, but they got rid of Harden to save money.

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"Trade centered on James

"Trade centered on James Harden for Jonas Valanciunas" does NOT mean James Harden straight-up for Valanciunas. We don't have any idea what the other variables of the deal were. The same goes for all these supposed Harden trades that GMS were "foolish" for declining. Presti could have been asking for 3 first round picks for all we know.

HotSnot
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Thats a possibility, but the

Thats a possibility, but the artical states Harden for Jonas as the main pieces. I'd like to think the NBA reporter might mention something as signifigant as three 1st's. One first seems about right.

You bring up a fair point though. For salary cap reasons, Calderon would have likely needed to be included. This would have removed the Rudy Gay trade later in the season since memphis was looking for cap relief and to get out from under his crippling contract. I'd take Harden over Rudy Gay all day though. Its not even close. When you get a chance at a player of Hardens pedigree AND at the price that was being asked, you jump at it.

Even with OKC getting Lamb, Tor's 1st and Martin,... Harden was far and away the best player in that trade and will continue to be for many more seasons by quite a large margin. Houston obviously won that trade. It would have been nice if Toronto was a winner for once.

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Valanciunas is going to be

Valanciunas is going to be good im assuming they wanted derozan and valanciunas but either way not angry they didnt make the trade valanciunas has a motor i think he might be the only raptor that has that

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Not the only Raptor

Have you ever seen Amir Johnson play? He probably has one of the best motors in the NBA and he has been the Raptors MVP this season. Amir is the heart and soul of the Raptors and has the best motor on the team with JV probably second.

Ny2daDeathOFme
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Rudy Gay Vs ????

Can y'all guess these stats

Rudy Gay avg 18.2 ppg 6.1rpg 2.8apg 1.7 spg and 0.7 bpg in 34 MPG this year

???? Avg 18.1 ppg 5.3 rpg 2.7 apg 1.3 spg and 0.3 bpg in 33 MPG this year

Can y'all guess who's stats are 2nd

& just so I'm on topic, I totally agree. Colangelo is living off his past because the more recent colangelo is one of the worst gm's in the league. He's right up there with David khan

J_01
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Earl?

Earl "J.R" Smith!!!

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yup

I was hoping for more answers but yes lol

Who y'all think or should I say who would y'all prefer gay or j.r smith? They basically put up the same stats this year

Da1pot
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Also, Colangelo knew that

Also, Colangelo knew that Harden had signability issues as well. He would not sign anywhere for less than the maximum basically and who is to say he would have wanted to play in Toronto anyways? The main reason Colangelo didn't pull the trigger on the trade is because he likely figured that Harden was not interested in signing a long-term deal to remain in Toronto. The Raptors would essentially have ended up renting Harden for just a season IMO. You have to consider all of these other things when trading for a star player. For example, The 76ers may end up getting nothing in return if Andrew Bynum walks during free agency.

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Bryan Colangelo

Am I the only one who supports BC? Yes, he has made mistakes but I feel recently he has made great strides to make the Raptors' competitive. I find it funny that people are saying the Raptors' should have drafted Drummond, WHEN before the draft a lot of people on this site were complaining about this motor HOW HE HAD high bust potential, how Drummond should have stayed an extra year in college to refine his game, Drummond was going to be the biggest slip because a lot of teams did question his work ethic and his motor (which is being disproved) but not only BC thought of this, but other GMs as well. So I think it's unfair to Colangelo.

I think with a full training camp Rudy Gay and DD will improve. Ross' game will improve as well and I think it's unfair with his sporadic playing time isn't helping his growth. I say give him two years to finish what he started. I think the Raptors' future is bright, but we will see how that turns out.

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Disagree IMO

Yes Gay is a solid player but his contract hurts the raptors opportunity for growth.
BC has taken the raptors nowhere a lot of signings with Hedo trading for Marion and JO All supposed to propel them into a highly competitive team
IMO Bryan is just trying to save his butt
Raptors need a real rebuild and stop floating in the middle which gets you nowhere

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@torontoraptors10 I had

@torontoraptors10

I had Drummond to Toronto in my mock...

I'm tired of hearing about DeRozan and his potential. He MAY end up being a bit better then he is now but he all signs point to him being virtually the same player he is today in 5 years from now. I remember many posters talking about how great DeRozan was playing earlier on this season when I was ripping Colangelo for the 44 mil extension. Turns out, by seasons end DeRozan's stats look very similar to the last 2 years. He has below average efficiency and 3 point shooting...average defense and above average transition. Hardly a 10 mil a year player. JR Smith who was mentioned earlier in this thread, is much easier for me to stomach at 10 mil per then DeMar is. I like DeRozan the person. He seems like a good dude. He's just not worth his contract and never will be.

When we look at Colangelo he has now signed Klieza, Fields, DeRozan, Gay and ...Bargnani as overpaid players on Toronto's roster. 4 of those 5 are the result of Colangelo bidding against No One for these players services and then there's taking on Gay's deal eating up the rest of the Raps cap space.

With that said, the Raps are better then their record shows this season. They should be in the playoffs next year as 7th or 8th seed. My biggest issue is "thats it?" After 7 seasons and multiple rebuilds, is that where we were hoping to be since Colangelo took over? The Raps have some nice pieces but is this remotely close to a championship team? 2 years from now will things be any different?

Bascially, Colangelo's efforts as GM are unsatisfactory. He may be a great person and a hard worker but the results of his efforts are subpar. Colangelo is not a productive GM and he should not be rewarded with an extension for what he's accomplished during his tenure.

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you're not the only one bro.

you're not the only one bro. even though i question some of his moves i still like the guy.

a lot of his moves in the past as the raptors' gm made sense at the time but its his not fault they flopped.

-signed a 3pt champ, kapono who didn't shoot much 3s and insisted on driving
-hedo coming off a good seasons ('08 19/6/4 '09 16/5/5) to coming to the raps out of shape with no work ethic and finished his raptors tenture 11/4/4

moves i didn't like
-trading hibbert for oneal
-derozen's contract at the beginning of this season

anyways he tries moves, they don't work, he changes it. he's constantly trying to make something happen and from my point of view i like his effort.

yes the team has sucked for a long time but that's where i think BC's main downfall comes into play, his pride.

the only problem with trying to make the playoffs all the time when you're a crappy team is that you finish with a mediocre record. mediocre record = mediocre draft pick selection. mediocre draft picks generally lead to mediocre players and the cycle never ends.

imo as someone from toronto, i wouldn't have minded when we lost bosh if we tanked to grab a top 3 selection for '11 and '12 instead of false hope that the raps will make it into the playoffs (most likely reaching for the 8th spot) only to get sweeped in the first round

i do like that BC is getting out of his euro mode and filling the roster with "athletic" players aka black guys. but after everything i wrote.. as much as i didn't mind BC here in toronto

i wouldn't mind a new gm either lol

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Does BC deserve to get fired?

Does BC deserve to get fired? Yes.

Will BC get fired? No.

BC will be given a two year contract extension for the same reason he won't be fired. Over the next two years the Raptors have 64-Mil invested in Gay, Bargnani and Fields. To put that in perspective the Spurs (a perfect example of how NBA organizations should be managed) will pay 45-Mil for Duncan and Parker and likely another 20-Mil for Ginobli or a player of his talent over the same 2 years.

Therefore over the next two years the Raps will not be in any position to trade, or sign personnel also they have no draft pick this year and have set themselves up for another late lottery to 18th pick in 2014 which is expected to be one of the most talented drafts ever with two potential franchise players. They can only grow with the talent they have so to break up the core is to break up the roster they have built and start rebuilding.

Bringing in a new GM with no chips to improve the team would be setting up a GM for failure so not only would no good GM take the job but also the only thing that GM would be able to do is tear the team apart. They will hype Gay and Derozan on the wings, the growth of Val and Ross, and hope that a Lowry will come into the form they expected to make this a playoff team and try this out for those two years and then evaluate the team once again.

Lets not forget that this could actually end up being a consistent 5th to 6th place team in the East like the Hawks.

torontoraptors10
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@hotsnot

@hotsnot - there is no doubt that Drummond is going to be a really good players in the league, but I understood at the time in the draft when there were so many questions concerning his game, work ethic and characteristics. I'm just saying at that time there were so many concerns surrounding him. A lot of people have been saying that the Cavaliers should have drafted Drummond 4th overall, as opposed to Waiters. You really can't blame BC...

HotSnot don't you think that getting Rudy Gay is a good step for the future? We have a player who can close games, make big shots, something the Raptors are lacking and always lacked since 2006. Him and DD have been playing well lately.

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Colangelo

Hi there. From Montreal here and see a lot of Raptors games on the set. Colangelo is a sharp team builder(based on his job in Phoenix and Toronto), but I don't think Toronto is a great destination for free agents. Maybe the climate and the fact that basketball culture is still growing in Canada. Also, Bryan's not the most out of the box GM or the smartest defensive mind of alltime. The dude knows his hoops, though, as evidenced from his drafting of DeRozan, Ed Davis, Valanciunas, etc. Maybe I would've been sharper at scouting PF and taken Harkless over T.Ross, but the guy has a tough job that not a lot of people in the world has the heart or brains to do. Team building in pro sports is a patient and smart process. That said, sports is ultimately a results oriented industry, and Colangelo hasn't gotten it done. Chalk it up to another sharp dude that got swallowed up by the scene. My two cents. Take care. Thanks.
Mark

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@mark

Hey Mark,

I don't think Toronto is a destination problem... I think it's the owner's fault and our losing culture that doesn't make Toronto an appealing city to play in. Once we have winning culture and make noise in the playoffs, I think players would want to play here.

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