This topic contains 6 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar DolanCare 11 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #42766
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    NJHooper95
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    Amare Stoudamire recently said Jonathan Hargett is the best player he has played with on any level. For those of you that do not know, Hargett was a 5’11 nightmare. Great handles, strength, and a 44inch vertical leap. Yet, he was also a problem child, he attended West Virginia but did not last long.

    This guy could really hoop and no doubt would have been at the least a good starter in the league. This goes back to my earlier post about the best player you have seen. Witnessing the best has nothing to do with rings, its sheer talent, skill, and dominance. Amare has played with Marbury, Carmelo, Nash, Joe Johnson, Marion, and yet he said the best player he ever played with was a guy that never even made it to the league. Had to share this for two reasons:

    First, Jonathan Hargett was an exceptional guard, one of the most athletic players you will find regardless of position. Not just an athlete, the kid could score at will when his mind was focused. Too much talent, no discipline. He is now in prison

    Lastly, I had to share this because lately, alot people have come out and said Lebron is the best they ever seen and the first thing people say is he has to win more rings, NO NO NO. Thats not true.

    We know of Hook Mitchell, Earl Manigualt, Shea Cotton, Dajuan Wagner, Pee Kirkland, Herman Helicopter, and others, because of people testimonies about the best they ever seen. It has nothing to do with championships, its has to do with talent, skill, and dominance. So when people say Lebron is the best they have seen, that is not a ridiculous statement. Who else in the history of the game has that combination, of size, strength, speed, passing, skill and athleticism. Answer is probably no one.Is he as successful as players before him, NO, but being a great talent and being successful are two different things. SO Please stop confusing talent with success. So if you are in the barbershop one day 25 years from now and someone ask who is the best you have ever seen, Lebron would not be a bad answer.  I probably will still say Mike or even Kobe and it will pass time by as I get my haircut.

     

     

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  • #707584
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    Captain L
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    Going with your point that the best player may not have all the rings or championships,  I agree that LeBron is probably the best to ever play the game, I’m in my 60’s and I have never seen a player with LeBron’s overall athleticism and talent. Jordan was great and has the rings and scoring titles etc to prove it  but he’s not the overall athlete and player that LeBron is, the thing that makes Jordan great(besides his great athleticim and shills) is his drive to win and not except anything but winning.  LeBron is still young and he is learning and growing as a player and he still has many years to prove how good he can be and gain more championships, this coming yr will be interesting with OKC’s young team gaining more experience and maturity and the Lakers and their four stars possibly getting in LeBrons way of another championship, even with the Heat improving with Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis.  LeBron’s game is more like Magics but he is way more athletic, I love MJ’s game, his combination of skills, athleticism and winning drive are unmatched.  If we took championships as the barometer for greatness Bill Russell would be the best player ever but as great as Russell was he’s not in MJ’s league as far as skills and athleticism.  IMO LeBron is the best athlete with size, speed, strength and skills, he is the best I’ve seen, time will tell if he adds the championships.

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  • #707587
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    JoeWolf1

     I hear what you’re saying, but certain people don’t excell when presented with a higher level in competition.  The best players on my 8th grade team were not the best players when we were seniors and a couple didn’t even make varisty.  I know this guy was probably really good, but everyone in college was awesome in high school, everyone in the NBA was awesome in college.

    When Amare was that age, Hargett, was probably mind blowing, but if 28 or 29 year old Amare was on that same court now, would he think he was better than Lebron James?  I would say, No, but again, I don’t know Amare or Jonathan Hargett.

    The NBA is the highest level of play in the world, so why not use it as a measuring stick?  I agree, to an extent, Karl Malone, Ewing and others don’t have the same weight when analyzing careers, and as a result get underrated on All-Time lists.  That being said, isn’t the point of basketball winning?  It’s hard to argue against the guy who always wins, because despite skill, athletic ability etc, when your in the NBA your job is to win and dropping 30 a night like Jordan in the process of winning virtually every award and 6 out of 8 Championships in the 8 seasons he played in the 1990’s is tough to argue against when you’re supporting a guy who may have been as talented, but won less.  The point of an NBA basketball game is to decide a winner.

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    • #707591
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      NJHooper95
      Participant

      But im not talking about guys that didnt pan out. You are right as players get older sometimes they get surpassed by other guys. Yet, I am referring to guys that got lost in the shuffle, hurt, or didnt give a darn along the way. Hargett was an elite player and his talent was never a question. The NBA is the highest level, but what about guy like the GOAT who dominated NBA guys on a regular at the rucker, or guys like Jason Kidd and Gary Payton, said that they were not on Hook Mitchells level.

      I dont believe that all the best players are in the NBA. I am firm believer that there are many guys that are not in the NBA for whatever reason, that are better than many of the guys there. Lets take Gerald Green, he could have easily been a guy that we talked about that should have been in the league. He was almost finished before he started, but not because he couldnt play. So if Gerald Green was out of the league like he was prior to last season, you dont think that there is somebody in the league that he is better than?

      Lastly, you are correct. the point of  playingBasketball is winning, but you must have a TEAM to win, no matter how great the player is. Chris Bosh has a ring, but was he a better player in Miami than he was in Toronto or did he just have a better team?

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      • #707596
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        JoeWolf1

         Yeah, that is very true.  Especially in European pro leagues, that are better than current NBAer’s.  We’ve all played with guys who were amazing in pickup games, but I often question elite one on one player’s ability to thrive at a higher level of basketball.  Hell, Jeremey Lin, is another example.  If he wouldn’t have gotten picked up by the Knicks he’d be in Europe or Asia right now.

        Some guys excell without a coach, or a strategy, or passing to open teammates.  I’m sure some of the great playground legends could have been very good NBA players, but I don’t think there’s a Hook Mitchell in hiding every major city. 

        So, I agree with you, but I just maybe feel that the romantic idea of a local playground hero having the chops to make it in the NBA is probably maybe a couple cases in the entire country.

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        • #707598
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          NJHooper95
          Participant

          I dont think there are many cases of local playground heros that could have made it, but definitely a couple. Yet, I think the biggest compliment comes from your peers. When a guy like Carmelo, Kareem, Kidd, or Amare say you are as good or better than anyone they have played with or against, I think you have to take that into consideration. 

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  • #707615
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    DolanCare
    Participant

    Fitting into a team system is what excludes a lot of the talent out of the league. Steve Novak just got a sizeable contract this offseason just for his ability to knock down shots… an obvious but telling example of how team basketball can often leave great ballers out.

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