Is Allen Iverson a top 5 SG of All-Time?
I have him in the top 5, but some people have him bottom of the top 10 and I've heard some people even put him out of the top 10(around 12-15).
Unless you disregard Gervin, Drexler and Dwade I don't think you can call him top 5 definitely top 10 though.
imo ai was robbed of few seasons,he should be still playing but he was always the black sheep of nba..He would probably scored over 30 k points if he played those seasons,so i think AI is top 3 SG all time
consider that Gervin retired at only 33, after playing all 82 games and averaging more than 16 a game. He could have easily played 3-4 more years at 10-16 pts per. He could have reached 30k as well (ABA-NBA total)
I could never really decide whether to classify him as a score-first PG, or an undersized SG. Regardless, he's one of the all-time greats. He's probably the toughest guy in NBA history (sorry, Kobe), had the talent to break MJ's ankles (even if it was at an all star game), and was arguably the best finisher at the rim of the last 20 years or so. He was also one of the most fun players to watch ever. First ballot HOF'er for sure
I never even thought this was a question. He's definitely behind MJ, Kobe, and Wade but that's it.
He's really only behind MJ and Kobe. Wade won all his rings with a couple top 5 players in history (shaq and Lebron), and doesn't have half the heart that Ai had.
Only behind MJ and Kobe.......why has everyone forgot about Jerry West?
I don't think so, everybody loves him, but he shot 42% on his career and his career ended with him putting up 14 ppg. There is NO way he could have hit 30,000 points...he had already fallen off quite a bit at age 34 due to the beating his small frame took and his alcoholism. Iverson, is an All-Time great, he was a great scorer, but extremely in-efficient and I'd put these guys ahead of him.
I'd probably put Iverson at 6 or 7 between he and D-Wade
Always respected your opinion, so.... Would you put Reggie ahead or behind AI? While AI was the prototype for the modern 'combo guard', Reggie was the consummate pure SG. Just curious...
I'd say behind, but still top 10. Reggie was a very very good NBA player, but was never as dominant as Iverson. Reggie was a great shooter, and was very crafty at drawing fouls on the perimeter, but he never averaged more than 4 rebounds or 4 assist during any of his 17 seasons and only topped 20 ppg 6 full seasons.
Iverson was not the shooter, nor nearly as efficient a scorer as Reggie, but he was a better more versitile scorer, not to mention he effected the game in the open court and setting up his teammates, things in which Miller never excelled.
I'd go....6. Iverson 7. Wade 8. Allen 9. Maravich 10. Miller
Even Lebron called iverson "pound for pound, the greatest player ever".
Don't think he's top 5 but top 10 easily
Iverson wasn't the perfect player (in an ideal world he'd only shoot the ball 18-20x per) or the perfect person (addiction and bad habits) but for some basketball heads not to recognize how hard it is to play in the NBA at 6 feet and 165lbs never mind scoring the way he did. Basketball is not kind to short people (relatively speaking). He'll always have respect
Im going to take back part of what I wrote. I usually have a rule that ranks players after 1980 because I wasn't around to see West.
Jordan Kobe Wade Iverson Drexler Gervin R.Miller R.Allen are on the short list add West who the numbers back up
too the people not mentioning west is wow
Wade is not better than AI
Ok let's get a couple things straight. The ONLY reason some of you are putting Clyde Drexler over AI is because of the LONE RING that he won in 95 with Hakeem due to the Absence of a certain someone. He was a great player but not as consistently as good as AI. Believe it or not he was a poor mans Dwade. Poor man's is actually kinda drastic more like a middle class man's Dwade....that's basically the kind of player he was but hate me if you want to, close to but not quite as good. Dwade used to straight up TEAR THE LEAGUE up, there used to be a REAL DEBATE as to who was better between him, LeBron and Melo about 6 years back how quickly we forget. I see people catching flack for saying Dwade is better than AI or that Dwade is number 3 on this list. When I first was reading I was thinking, no there's no way Dwade is the 3rd best SG in NBA history or is better than AI. But after doing a little research I came to a stunning observation that this is INDEED the case. Dwade was just as dominant as AI for as long a period of time he has had some VERY impressive season plus has a ring under his belt while being a NUMBER ONE option. Not to mention he is still playing at a high level and the ring count has continued and WILL CONTINUE to rise, albeit with the help of SOME GUY I can't quite remember his name, but he's pretty good. I know people tend to want to respect the LEGENDS and hold them on this untouchable pedistal....but if AI could get in a time machine and go back in time from 2001 to the 60s he'd run CIRCLES around everyone playing. The NBA was in its early stage as was the entire game of baskeball he would've done things with a basketball that people had NEVER SEEN BEFORE if he could go to back then, not to mention most of the players were less athletic **cough** white **cough**....than players today. Hate to bring race into it but it's a genetic evolutionary fact that african americans are naturally more athletic than their caucasian counterparts, due to the weaker of us getting killed off in slavery times but take race out of it. All athletes today regardless of race are more athletic than the ones of yester year due to advances in suplements, more knowledge of diets and muscle building regimens, the list goes and on. No one in the 60s would've known what to do with young AI playing with them. With George Gervin A.I. basically did everything he did and dominated at a high level for just a bit longer if i'm not mistaken I might be....they actually had kind of similar career but the Iceman was a SF in my eyes anyway. In conclusion I believe that A.I. is the 4th best SG of ALL TIME behind Dwade, Kobe, and His Airness in a 3, 2, 1 countdown fashion.
I think the top 3 are pretty set
mj, kobe and west. After that, I would put Drexler 4th. BUt Iverson and wade are both right there as well. I honestly never studied up on George gervin all that much. I knew he scored a lot, but unlke lots of players I haven't seen, I never went back and watched footage or read his career stats and how he helped teams wins so its really hard for me gauge him.
AI never won a title and perhaps his ego forced him out of the NBA sooner than should have been. But the guy still has a regular season record of 26.7ppg which is in the top 6 ever. So I'd say he qualifies to be in the top 5 SG's of all time although I still think of him as more a PG and Jerry West is listed as playing PG for some of his career.
Unsurprisingly my number 1 and 2 are MJ and Kobe, then I'd go Jerry West with AI at 4 just ahead of George Gervin.
AI would have perhaps benefited if he could have got onto one of the stacked rosters that were put together when he had just left the NBA. If he could have got a starters role and swallowed his ego he could have played another few years and maybe had a shot at the title. When all these stars were getting together and rosters were being filled out, I cannot recall one current star suggesting AI as a veteran presence to play alongside them. This perhaps says a lot about the baggage AI carried with him.
But for a guy who was only 6ft 165lbs he was pound for pound one of the greatest scorers ever. The physical knocks he must have taken down the years going inside against guys 100lbs bigger or more on occasion must have been huge. Lets consider that Shaq listed at a conservative 325lbs was likely over double AI's weight and a foot taller before you consider him as the most dominant scoring big of his era and that shows something of the magnitude of AI's NBA career.
Yep, I agree with those that have MJ, Kobe, West 1-3.
Drexler played in Jordan's shadow but the truth is unlike the other 3 he really had no weaknesses. He had very good size, great athleticism and quickness, was relatively durable; He could shoot, attack the basket, pass, rebound, defend and carry a team as a leader.
Iverson was a dynamo and in addition to being a scoring machine, he could pass and he was a tenacious ball-hawk. Career numbers of 26.7 PPG, 6.2 APG and 2.2 SPG and 41.1 MPG (perhaps his most impressive stat of all for an undersized player in the modern era) are eye popping. 11 All-Star games and an MVP seal it for me. He was never a champion but he brought the 76ers play to near that height.
Wade is an amazing player as well, a scorer, distributer and aggressive defender who has taken a back seat to a superior player and now has 3 titles and counting to his name. While it is true that Lebron has enabled him to win the last two, it's also true that his career stats would be even more impressive if he was still the franchise in Miami. We can't knock him for having more talent around him unless we also knock the others for putting up big numbers only as the first option of their teams.
I don't think I could put Gervin at #4, yes he was a phenomenal scorer (and a far more efficient one than AI) but he didn't do much else. He was a poor defender, mediocre passer and was never a winner (forget about championships he never even got to the finals despite playing part of his prime in the late 70s the most open era for titles ever).
4. Clyde Drexler
5. Allen Iverson
6. Dwyane Wade
7. George Gervin
Please explain to me how Clyde Drexler or ringless short career George Gervin are better than DWade? I'm listening.
.504 5.3 rbs 2.6 assts 1.2 stls 1.0 blks 3.0 tos 25.1
.425 fg% 3.7 rbs 6.2 asst 2.2 stl .2 blks 3.6 tos 26.7 pts
please note efficiency, not highlight appeal
zero final appearance. 3to's ? does he handle the ball alot? but he has only 2.6 assists per game
If we are to talk to PG skills, that is another discussion. AI was at his best the prototypical modern combo guard, or what is now commonly known as a 'lead guard'. He was the primary ballhandler, but also the primary scoring option. As a SG, Gervin ahead of him... Lead guard, combo, PG... sure, AI.
i see.. he just turns the ball over alot
That is called 'moving the goal posts'. The question is about top SG. If we talk about PGs, yeah... Iverson turned it over, alot!. SGs? Ill give it to Gervin
You do realize these two players basically have the same career PER right???
AI was doubled teamed every night, pointing out his FG% to make argument to say he was inefficient is miss-leading.
whoa.. putting old school players would have been a good look. no disrespect, but really? i understand the thing about jerry west and what he contributed to the game. but personally i would still choose wade/iverson all day. let alone clyde or gervin. plus wade is still active so ++
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by " whoa, putting old school players would have been a good look... But really?", but you have to judge guys by what they did in there era. I mean I personally don't think anybody from the 60's or 70's would be able to stand out today besides some of the bigs like Kareem and wilt, but you can't dismiss what guys like west did for their time. West clearly had a greater impact and left a greater impact then wade or iverson.
i agree, that's why i would never argue much on people that will take west on the 3rd spot. but still ain't it easier to leave impact when no one else has done it before or be the first to do it? i assume you also think wade/iverson could have done the same or more. but then you can counter it by saying they benefited from the first ones who played. lol T_T
Only the bigs of the 60's and 70's would stand out in today's NBA? Have you forgotten the Big O. He might be the most complete player of all time (regardless of generation).
Then toss up for 4 & 5 between A.I Drexler and Iceman
I personally go
S/N: West was a SG
Then toss up for 4 & 5 between A.I Drexler and Iceman
I personally go
S/N: West was a PG
Overall statistically between Gervin and Iverson for their careers it's almost a wash the only thing that's clear is that Gervin was the better shooter. In my eyes they're kinda in the same boat it's Iverson taking that team of nobodys to finals and getting a game that makes me give him the nod. Now u didn't explain Drexler. Why didn't Drexler's 1 ring prompt me to put him over iverson? Because I feel there's a significant enough talent and statistical gap between them and their careers that getting a ring on the downside of your career with a hall of fame top 5 center of all time isn't enough for the 1 ring to make up the difference.
explained to me how Gervin and Drexler are above DWade on this list....I don't see it tell me how......make me a BELIEVER
I'm biased i guess being a sixers fan but I think iverson is the second best sg of all time. In the 2001 playoffs I don't think I ever seen someone dominate like he did. The only reason why we didn't win the ship was because of shaq. Kobe didn't really do anything. Think about this all the players you guys named all played with way better talent then iverson did. The best player he played with when he was with the sixers was Mckie.
Dikembe Mutumbo was the next best player. Best rebounder in the league that year, all star, 2nd all team nba, dominant shot blocker, Defensive Player Of the Year!!!
You're most definitely biased....but I can see where you're coming from.
D-Wade as he is still playing is perhaps hard to judge especially as he has played more a supporting role to LeBron on the last two titles but he was the dominant player on the 2006 Championship team and has a career average of 24.7ppg over 10 years so his greatness is not in question.
On my list he'd be about 6th or 7th but could move up if he plays a few more years and leaves behind a lasting legacy.
We're all aware of all of Allen Iverson's positives as a player (they're mentioned frequently), but I think a lot of people are ignoring his weaknesses. Let's be real... He was a ball hog. He was a "me first" player and never really understood team ball, which is the reason he couldn't adjust later in his career. As exciting/talented as he was, he had some of the worst shot selection I've ever seen. The teams that he played on had so many wasted/vanilla offensive possessions. He was also turnover prone.
Not only that, he was a weak defender. He could get into the passing lanes, but other than that... He was a weak link defensively. He was listed at 6' 0" 165. He was so small.
IF we're basing this off of talent, heart, being exciting to watch, etc, etc... Then Iverson being in the top five is a no brainer. However, if we're focusing on it from a pure basketball perspective, I think it's questionable he's top five.
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Clyde Drexler
6. Allen Iverson
7. George Gervin