Aldridge should be in the MVP Discussion
34 points and 7 rebounds tonight with 12 of those points coming in the 4th quarter when they were trailing against the Hornets. I'm not saying he should win it but he should at least be mention. If Blake Griffin keeps getting his name mention I don't see why Aldridge can't. After tonights win the Blazers are in 5th place in the western conference standings. The team currently has the longest winning streak in the league heading to the all star break with 6. But no he probably won't get mention because it would look weird to have a MVP candidate thats not an all star.
MVP discussion? Maybe in the top 10 balloting.
MVP no. An All NBA team maybe.
It's ridiculous that he's not an All-Star over Love or one of the other PFs this season.
this is why you dont do drugs folks
winning the mvp no way but i can understand why ud think he deserves a mention hes keeping the blazers in the playoffs this year despite all the injuries they have suffered
Heres that discussion "Aldridge?" "nah" if thats what you mean then yes he should. But he seriously is one of the top big men in the league right now and getting better everyday.
My point is if Blake Griffin gets his name mention why shouldn't LMA?
Have you seen LAC's record? Griffin isn't in the MVP discussion... Maybe the MVP of being the most exciting lol.
And no... I understand he got snubbed and has been playing very well, but it's too soon to say Aldridge should be in the MVP discussion. Let's see what he does after the All-Star break. I do think he'll have a second half of the season like Amare Stoudemire had last year though.
I know Griffin isn't in the discussion but I've seen threads about Griffin being MVP? and ESPN and other medias writing articles about him being a MVP candidate.
I think he should have been an All-Star, and maybe even is in All-NBA talks, but he is not an MVP candidate. He is Portland's MVP, but he is not the league MVP by any stretch of the imagination. If he had played the entire season like he has played these last few month's, it is possible, but Portland is truly not a bad team. LaMarcus has been a major catalyst in the Blazers holding onto play-off contention, but he has not done it alone and I do not think he has cemented his status as a top 5 player at his position, which I think should be mandatory in MVP discussion. Also, people who put Blake Griffin in the MVP discussion right now are kidding themselves. He has had a fantastic rookie season, putting up incredible numbers and it looks like he could be on his way to having a wonderful career. At the same time, the Clippers are still not a great team and I do not think they scare anybody. Wes Unseld and Wilt Chamberlain both played on good teams and put up incredible numbers when they won the MVP, Blake is missing the first part. If Blake were in the discussion, than LaMarcus has every right to be, but people putting Blake in the discussion are I believe kidding themselves.
The MVP to me is boiling down into a race with LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade and Dwight Howard, with Kevin Durant possibly getting consideration as well. Amare Stoudemire is out to me, because people are realizing that his impact has made the Knicks a fairly mediocre team from a bad one, and that is just not a big deal. I never felt like Amare was a truly deserving candidate, though he was in the discussion early on when the Knicks were appearing to be a top half Eastern Conference team. My vote right now, and I probably do not see it changing unless something drastic happens, is for LeBron James. As much as it is hard to say he is a better player than Kobe Bryant, to me he has had the best season of any player in the league. Yes, he plays with two great players (one spectacular, one great), but their record is still amongst the best in the league, I do not know why he has to be held to the standard where if his team wins fewer than 70 games that he is somehow a failure. Bottom line is, he is the most dominant player in the NBA in so many facets of the game right now. I think he has taken a step to separate himself from the rest of the league, and as highly as I think of Dwyane Wade, LeBron is the Heat's best player. I do not know why people seem to think that just because a player surpasses some pre-season expectations or does surprisingly well that makes him better than a player who is clearly on a different level. I think Derrick Rose is tremendous, the Bulls have done extremely well with some significant set backs from injury, but is he a better player than LeBron James? If he and LeBron switched places, would the Bulls be worse off and the Heat better off? If anything, I think people should be glad LeBron decided to pass on going to Chicago, as they were a flat out deeper team than the Heat, even with Wade and Bosh in the equation for the Heat. Derrick Rose is having a great season, but is it really enough to give him the MVP over LeBron James? Someone please tell me how that makes sense. So, my basic point is, LaMarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin are having great seasons, but they are not in the equation for MVP.
I love both Tim Duncan and Blake Griffin and have never been the biggest Aldridge fan before this season, but I will say there is no way either of them should be on the All-Star team over Aldridge. He really deserved it.
IF you look at the entire season as a whole, Griffin has been better than Aldridge.
People like to give Aldridge all of Portland's credit, but the Blazers are a good team. McMillian's teams defend and they lower the amount of possesions... They'll always have a chance to win playing that way, especially at home. Then you have to give credit to Miller, Matthews, Batum, Camby (he hasn't missed THAT much time to ignore his impact), etc.
Derrick Rose will be the MVP.
LeBron has been great, but Wade has been equally as great in my opinion. Wade had a rough start, but you have to attribute that to missing the pre-season, etc. I think they'll take votes away from one another.
We know it dude. You hate him. Yes, Derrick has been fantastic, but you can not say that LeBron James has not been better than Dwyane Wade. Dwyane Wade has the occasional fantastic game (like against your Pacers), and he is much better than anyone Derrick Rose plays with, but do you honestly think Derrick Rose is better than LeBron James? You may say he is more valuable to his team (though I would disagree with that, as LeBron James is a better player), but for every less than stellar game LeBron has, he has so many incredible ones where he is unstoppable. I love Dwyane Wade, he is an incredible player, but he is not as good as LeBron James. He may be faster and drive harder, but LeBron is bigger, stronger and has much better court vision. Their is a reason LeBron averages more assists and has the ball in his hands more, because that works. Dwyane Wade honestly over dribbles and does the same things that drive you crazy about LeBron. But, this whole Heisman trophy theory of one taking votes away from another is bogus, and is not based on anything besides pure dislike of LeBron. As much as people hate "The Decision" and think of LeBron as a follower, he is the best player on the Heat and is having the best season of any player in the NBA. If the Bulls somehow surpass the Heat, than by all means Derrick Rose should have a legit shot at the MVP. But, why not give it to the best player? I guess you are predicting what might happen, but you truly do hate LeBron James man, lol. Just saying, I know that feeling when you do not want a player to get something or dislike him (though I do not harbor these feelings towards LeBron in particular), but Rose winning MVP over LeBron if they maintain their current seasons would be wrong in my opinion. If you vote for Wade over LeBron, than I really do not know what team you have been watching anonymous MVP voter.
I think that LMA should have made the AS game but I don't see him being an MVP contender although Coach MacMillan could be a coach of the year contender given the results he has got wth a crippled roster.
The MVP ballot comes down very much to the names mentioned above in my opinion as well.
Whether or not Rose is a better basketball player than LeBron is irrellivant. IF being the MVP meant being the best player in the league, then Kobe would have more than one MVP award. IF that was the case, Karl Malone wouldn't have won it over Jordan. Nash wouldn't have won it over Kobe and neither would Dirk. The MVP award doesn't necesarily mean you have to be the best player in the NBA. You know better than that.
Me saying Rose is the MVP has nothing to do with my dislike for LeBron. The Bulls haven't had their full team together. Their two guard position is weak. Deng is having a good season, but still isn't all that great at creating his own offense. Noah and Boozer have been in and out of the lineup. The one constant has been Rose. He's taken his game to another level this season and has his team competing for the top spot in the East. And he doesn't have a teammate anywhere close to the caliber of Wade. And Bosh is better than Boozer as well.
IF you take LeBron off of the Heat, they're still a playoff team... Probably even getting homecourt advantage a round or two. You take Rose off of the Bulls, and do they even get into the playoffs?
I don't see how Rose can't win it right now. Hasn't Noah missed like 30 games and Boozer 20? The Bulls are 2.5 games of the Celtics and Heat with 2 of their 3 best players missing nearly 50 combined games? I'm pretty sure Keith Bogans isn't the reason for it, I doubt it's Deng or Korver. Rose has absolutely carried these guys and they could possibly win the top seed in the east.
Pretty much seconding everything that Indiana has just said^
Its clear LeBron is the MVP not Rose. LeBron is the best player in the NBA this year. You want scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, he does it all
It was literally just said that MVP is not just about being the best player. Most VALUABLE player is NOT the same thing as being the best. Besides we know you aren't big on Rose.
I think he's the ost Valuable as well. Noah is a good rebounder and all but he's not such a huge missing piece. Boozer only missed 20 games and Deng is a Allstar caliber player this year. If we going Valueable then Aldrige is more Valuable then any of those guys because the Blazers would not be a playoff team without him. they would be straight Lotto. Has nothing to do with being big on Rose. Unlike most people on here i can be critical of players im fans of( ive shown this plenty of times but most of ya'll get all butt hurt when someone is critical of a player or team you like) Hell Chris Paul is more valuable then either of them because the Hornets would be lost without him. And Dwill isn't playing out of his mind but without him Utah isn't a playoff team as well. You take the star off of most of these teams and they aren't that good. Don't forget this is a opinion thing not fact and my opinion is he isn't the MVP. People always liek to down play how good Deng has been this year, actually its just the fans because the coach's, players on other teams and his own teammates give him more credit then the fans do
Deng has not been all that great this year. Can you explain how LeBron is more valuable to Rose? I mean both teams have nearly the same record but Boozer and Noah have missed near 50 games. Wade and Bosh have missed quite a bit less.
It just boils down to how you define "valuable." In a sense, Rose is doing what Lebron was doing for the past 2 years, in that he is leading an average supporting cast to one of the best records in the league.
The question is: "Weather Lebron got the MVPs because of the circumstances I just described, or because he was the best player in the league."
I tend to think that Lebron earned the award because he was the league's best player, (although I know many would argue for Kobe) if that's the case than he absolutely deserves it again this year. However, if it is because he led a mediocre cast to contention, than I suppose Rose deserves it.
The Bulls are not the Cavs by a long shot. Boozer and Deng are wayyyyyyy better than Jamison and Mo. Come on now
How has deng not been all that great????? Coach's and players have said he will make one of the all defensive teams!!! 18ppg 6 reb and you say he's not doing all that great....lol...thats a joke right? is it because he's not scoring or passing as well as Rose?..He's playing much better defense then Rose is. Rose is clearly the ;eader of the team but you're crazy to think if Deng hasn't had a impact on the teams success this year. What proof is there that Deng hasn't been all that great this year because i see plenty of proof saying he has. His coach, his teammates, players on other teams, coach's on other teams all say he's been playing very well and teams make defensive schemes to defend him
I never mentioned his defense. I'm sure he's done very well on that end. If you watch the Bulls you know his offense is not all star caliber at all though. Ask anyone who watches the Bulls, he feeds off Rose almost entirely.
Where does Deng rank as a third option anyway. I ment to look that up. Third option being offense and defense ( Boozer and Rose are clearly the first two options on offense and Deng is there top defender till Noah comes back)
hmmm actually i watched and then looked it up on the Synergy sports. Deng doesn't rely on Rose to get his points actualy so that observation is wrong
As a third option? Off the top of my head Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic?, Spurs, Hawks?, Mavs are better. I would think Warriors and Jazz have to be close.
"hmmm actually i watched and then looked it up on the Synergy sports. Deng doesn't rely on Rose to get his points actualy so that observation is wrong"
I'd love to see the link to this.
Tezo my friend, I honestly think LeBron being a better player has complete relevance. I know the history of the MVP very well, as I know most basketball award history, but I find that the MVP has been given to the wrong people far too often. In my opinion, all of the things you used as claims to support why Rose might indeed win it (the Kobe, Malone, Nash part, not the other parts), are the things that drive me crazy about the Maurice Podoloff Trophy. What is wrong with giving the award to the best player in the game? Is it an award for which player carries the worst team? For who overcomes the most injuries to do better than pundits or fans thought they should or would do? It has become that, which I think is wrong. I think circumstance is one thing I would more than most things try to keep out of this award. I have made a post about players that I feel should win the MVP before, and I feel that in the past while, the voters have definitely gotten it wrong more than a few times. Of course Kobe should have more than one MVP! In my mind, Karl Malone, as fantastic and great a player as he was, should not have won the MVP either time he did (Sorry Mailman, but it is true). Shaq and Kobe having one MVP just prove that this award's standards need to be set slightly differently. Steve Nash won his second MVP based on a very significant player being hurt and his team only winning 7-8 less games than the year before. They finished 3rd in the conference, but due to a ridiculous rule that was immediately changed the year proceeding, they were the 2nd seed in the Western Play-offs. Kobe, who was playing on a team worse than sin, averaged 35.4 ppg and lead that team to the play-offs. He came in 4th in voting! So, just because Nash did win it, does that make it right? Something to think about it at least.
With all of this being said, I very much understand the case for Derrick Rose and am not against his MVP contention. I was in the "I think Derrick Rose will be the best PG in the league in 2 years" group, and he is certainly having the best season of any PG out there. The injuries to the Bulls would seemingly have been crushing, but he has kept them at a very high pace, had some huge games (42 last night against San Antonio, which was ridiculous) and he pretty much defines franchise player. Still, I do not agree with you that if Rose were not on the Bulls that they would not be a play-off team. Carlos Boozer is a great player, and he may not be Chris Bosh, but their is a pretty fine line there. Yes, Carlos was hurt, and Noah, so maybe they would have been in a lot of trouble if Derrick were not there, but most teams seem to be that way when they have a franchise guy. Also, were the Bulls not supposed to step up this year? I guess the injuries meant that they should have been lesser. The crazy thing though with the Bulls, is that their defense and rebounding are amongst the best in the league, and are clear reasons that they have had their success. Now, as great as Derrick is, is he a catalyst in this? I find that while he has a lot of potential on defense, he still seems to be a matador at points, saw Tony Parker drive around him quite a bit with Rose putting up little resistance (guess Tony Parker does that to people though). But, you have to wonder, are the Bulls really as bad as people are making them out to be? They need Derrick's scoring and offense, which makes him their MVP bar none, but they have some great role guys and defenders. Tom Thibodeau has done a great job, and for all the issues with their SG position, they have some great shooters and defenders on the wing. Really their is nothing wrong with Ronnie Brewer, and having Kyle Korver as a shooter, that was a huge get. Luol Deng is truly underrated by many and he may not be great, but he is a really good player. Plus, Taj Gibson started for them last year and has ridiculous length, and Thomas/Asik are grinders. The Bulls have a good supporting cast people, not amazing, but they are good.
LeBron has Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. Yes, that is truly what limits his value as a player, playing with a perennial All-Star and the premier slasher in the league. All of that aside, the reason the Heat worry me and make most people (I think you included) incredibly happy are that they are an incredibly poor team. They have two other players who you might be alright with starting on your team, Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller. Udonis was playing well, though kind of throwing Bosh off of his game, yet nonetheless, they did not truly hit rhythym until their undoubted 6th man went down. Miller was just coming into his own (maybe has played about 5-6 good games this year, was worked into the rotation at a snails pace) and he just got a major set back. Now, look at the rest of the Heat's roster. It is so sketchy. What I have very much realized watching and studying basketball is that even though great players can get you really far, in the end you need a lot of help from your team. LeBron gets a lot of help from Wade, a little less from Bosh and at the end of the day he is the leader of a team I predict will finish with the best record in the Eastern Conference. Not only that, but while his averages have gone down slightly, he is to me the catalyst for everything the Heat do. He may not be the best shooter or the purest scorer, but he is bar none the most difficult player to defend in the league. His versatility as a basketball player is unmatched, no one is even close. Plus, he plays at an exceptional level on both sides of the court, defends about every position and I think he is unquestionably the team leader.
Voters may not like LeBron James, but if he and Rose maintain their seasons, I think LeBron will get robbed of the MVP. Derrick may be more humble and unassuming, two qualities that are respectable, plus he is incredibly hungry and a proven winner. Still, whatever people think about LeBron's attitude or how he has handled himself, he is the better player. He is having the better season in my opinion as well. He plays with two All-Stars, but when Noah comes back, Rose will have a much better all-around team. Plus, while the Heat have SG and PF covered, their PG and C positions are much shakier than the Bulls at SG, I am sure the Heat would love a player of Ronnie Brewer's caliber at either the PG or C position. So, from 1-3, the Heat do crush the Bulls, but from 4-12, not even close, whether Noah or Boozer are injured or not. Still, I do not why LeBron should be punished for playing with Wade and Bosh, we know how great a player he is without them, and I think he has just improved on that. Say what you will about LeBron's attitude or clutch performance, but the guy works incredibly hard and seems to get better every year. If the Bulls come back with Noah, cop the top seed in the East and D-Rose keeps up the good work, than Rose should take the trophy. But, my guess is that the Heat take top record in the East, Rose and the Bulls finish behind the Celts and maybe even the Magic. It will be very interesting to see how both do in the second half of the year, and Rose has exceeded expectations in the first for sure. Nonetheless, LeBron James reaching expectations is still good enough for me to say he should win the MVP.
IF the MVP award was determined the way you wanted it to be, it'd be a boring and plain award.
You don't have to be the best player in the league to be it's most valuable player for a season. Circumstance should be considered, as well as those other things.
We can argue about how you *think* the MVP award should be determined in another thread... However, based on how it's actually been determined in the past, I really do think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the first half of the season.
Going to have to back IndianaBasketball here, unless Wade takes a significant step back, or Lebron does even better than he was last year I can't see why he'd be worthy of MVP over Rose, who as has been stated, means more to his team than any other player on a contender in the League in terms of getting Ws.
"hmmm actually i watched and then looked it up on the Synergy sports. Deng doesn't rely on Rose to get his points actualy so that observation is wrong"
vs SA- 6 FGS, 5 off assists (6-12 shooting)
vs Cha- 10 FGs, 7 off assists (10-19)
vs NO- 5 FGs, 3 off assists (5-10)
vs Utah- 4 FGs, 1 off assist (4-12)
vs Por- 7 FGs, 2 off assists, 2 off offensive rebounds (7-15)
vs GS- 7 FGS, 6 off assists, 1 off offensive rebound (7-15)
vs LAC- 9 FGS, 6 off assists, 1 off offensive rebound (9-17)
vs IND- 6 FGS, 4 off assists, 1 off offensive rebound (6-13)
vs ORL- 9 FGS, 7 off assists (9-16)
vs MIL- 3 FGS, 1 off assists, 1 off offensive rebound (3-8)
Deng relies on his teammates to get him his baskets. He cuts off the ball well, he is good in a catch-and-shoot, and he is a decent offensive rebounder. He isn't by any means a prototypical small forward who can get his shot whenever he wants.
I agree Derrick Rose is the mvp right now, but usually the award goes to the best player on one of the best teams. Going by that criteria Lebron is the better player and on the better team thus far its a close race
PPG RPG APG FG% 3FG% PER
LeBron James 2010-11 26.1 7.4 7.3 .485 .345 26.5
Derrick Rose 2010-11 24.9 4.4 8.2 .45 .355 23.3
The big difference to me is that LeBron has a teammate that's arguably a top five MVP candidate in his own right.
Rose doesn't have that. Of course the Bulls are getting contributions from other players, but the Bulls literally have no other player who can create their own offense or for others off of the dribble. That's 100% of Rose's responsibility similar to how it was LeBron's in Cleveland.
You totally leave out that a lot of how they win games is on defense and on the glass, and Rose plays a very little part in that. LeBron has such a complete game, just because he plays with another player who has an amazing and complete game that is a reason to say Rose is more deserving of the MVP? Who says the MVP vote has to be exciting? That sounds exactly like a reason to just not vote for the best player out there, or to choose someone with a better story rather than someone who is a better player. The MVP to me is much more pointless if voted on for shock value and story rather than on actual ability. In no way do I think Rose is not a deserving candidate, he is, but LeBron is the NBA MVP. That is the award. Not the "lifting up a team of no names" award. Which is kind of what it is becoming. It would have been boring see Michael Jordan win 6 MVP's in a row, like he deserved to do, but in the end, does it not just kind of seem stupid that Michael only has 5? Charles Barkley and Karl Malone know Michael Jordan was better than they were and had a better season. But, to be fair, let's give it to them anyway.
It is harsh, but I would love to see the MVP be more about basketball and less about story and politics. Derrick Rose is deserving, much more deserving than some who have won the MVP in the past while (looking at you Steve Nash 2006 and Dirk Nowitzki 2007), but LeBron James is flat out better. Even you think it is ridiculous that Kobe has won one MVP? What is better, saying, well, Kobe won one MVP, but that is just how it goes, or taking a stand to change an award that may be ridiculous. I know that LeBron James will more than likely lose this award, and if he won some people will complain that he plays with Dwyane Wade so on and so forth. But, how is Derrick Rose more deserving than him? When LeBron was doing what you are claiming Rose is doing, with players worse than those around Rose, his team won 66 and 61 games the past two MVP's, I mean years. Yes, Derrick is awesome, I am cool with you saying he is MVP even, but I just wish people would maybe look at things differently when it comes to voting for this award. I think the whole Dwyane Wade thing hurting LeBron's MVP chances is completely absurd. LeBron is a more complete basketball player, putting up numbers incredibly similar, and better in nearly every category and he is an All-Defensive first team player. Rose still has things he definitely needs to work on when it comes to that end of the floor. Rose is my runner-up right now, but I think LeBron James has been the best player in the first half of the season bar none. He has had serious value to his team, despite the fact everyone hates the team he chose and the way he went about things.
Well, I can't expect anything less from you considering LeBron James is your favorite player.
Aldridge has about a 0.0000001% at the MVP this year. It's clearly either Lebron or Rose.
That is a low blow though. This has nothing to do with favoritism and everything to do with what is right. Though, I guess you have the right since I said you hated LeBron, even though you clearly do. But, other than totally discrediting my argument which I believe is completely valid, wait, I have nothing else to say to that. Guess we'll agree to disagree, but I think you kind of took the weak way out here man. I asked legitimate questions and raised legitimate points, and I am sure you even agree with at least some of what I was saying (about past MVP's). Derrick Rose is also one of my favorite players, and when I see something I try to leave favoritism out of it.
This is one of the problems I have with you as a poster... You seem to have trouble accepting logic other than that of your own.
This is no different than our arguments regarding who was the better shooting guard/player between Eric Gordon and OJ Mayo, and which one of them should make Team USA. You thought your logic was correct then too, but was it? Gordon showed that your logic was wrong over the summer and he's shown it this season too. Gordon is having a career season, while Mayo has been demoted to the bench. It's also no different than your thought that Blake Griffin should play center when it's clear he lacks the height/length defensively to play that spot consistently. You had a hard time accepting that your logic wasn't right in that situation too.
And then you sound very hypocritical. You accused me of only picking Rose due to my hatred for LeBron, (whom I don't hate at all) but then turned around and had a problem with me accusing you of only picking LeBron because he's your favorite player (which I did just to show you how it felt... you didn't like it, huh?). Do you see the problem there?
IF you want to argue about how you think the MVP award should be determined, then create a thread about it. However, I'm going by how it's been determined in the past. Rose would be a worthy MVP and I stated perfectly legit reasons why I thought he was the first half MVP. I'm not the only person who watches the NBA who has Rose down as the MVP. Are all of them insane too?
aldridge is playin beast bball
if the blazers can maintain this kind of heat
aldridge can easily be in the topic of mvp discussions
look at the injuries the blazers have had
then look how he has carried this team without roy
i would never have expected this from him
i dont think aldridge will win at all
but i think he can be in the discussion
He's not quite on MVP level. And also, anyone saying Griffin is on MVP level has completely lost it, no offense. We'll see if the Blazers can keep up their hot streak after the break, and with Roy coming back.
You are not insane, but I just wish you would have said this rather than just saying, "Well, he is your favorite player, no wonder". I like you as a poster Indiana, and I do not think you give me credit for sometimes, I don't know, admitting to my mistakes. I feel I am one of the few posters who actually will say "I am wrong" when he is wrong. I do go by my own logic quite a bit, and if I believe something I will try to back it up and give evidence as to why I believe in it. I am sorry I caused you distress at my initials thoughts on Mayo versus Gordon, but I will say it again, "I WAS WRONG". Lol, I was man, I am cool with it, a real man can admit his mistakes and does not fall into stubborn foolish pride, and I may struggle with it like anyone, but I tend to give you a lot of props for it.
When I said you hated LeBron, which I than backed up with my reasons for LeBron's case as being the MVP, you said this, "Me saying Rose is the MVP has nothing to do with my dislike for LeBron." I completely accepted that, but it to me states you dislike LeBron greatly, which you seem to show consistently. It did not say, "I really do not hate LeBron". I am cool with that, but I did not use that as the only reason to debate Rose's MVP candidacy. If you would have said, "Well, he is your favorite player, and I feel you are missing.....", than that is cool, but just saying that is clearly not what I did to you. I guess I used your apparent hatred of LeBron as a larger hatred by many others, and for that I apologize.
Now, I do not say that everyone is crazy for voting for Derrick Rose. I know he is a very popular candidate and I think I give him a lot of props. No team depends on an offensive option to win games more than the Bulls do on Derrick Rose. But, his overall game is still not up to that of LeBron James, who I feel is displaying his ability that will make him the hands down best player in the league. As Charles Barkley said last night when someone said they felt Kevin Durant would be the best player in the league next year, "Someone will have to shoot LeBron James". Agree with that 100%. I will start a thread about the way MVP is voted for and we can debate this, but when I make predictions I usually do not pardon what I find to be possibly flawed lines in the system. With Blake Griffin being a Center, I was wrong there as well. See, I admit these things.
Honestly, you claiming that I had any hypocrisy in this whole deal I feel is pure miscomprehension of what I wrote and posted. I guess my posts are too long for people to read the entire content, and that is my bad. But, my main reason for debating you on this was not saying that you hated LeBron James so you were voting for Derrick Rose, and I should not have titled it as such. I guess I was trying to bring your attention to the issue and maybe open your mind as to why LeBron James should be a legitimate candidate. One thing I do find very wrong is taking away LeBron's legitimacy because he plays with Dwyane Wade. The thing I think is ridiculous is eliminating LeBron due to him having another fantastic player, when I feel he is clearly deserving and displays qualities that should have him at the top of the discussion. If people give Wade first place votes over LeBron, it will indeed puzzle me, though maybe you meant they would take votes from him just for playing with Wade, which I again feel would be wrong. But, one thing you will notice is that my posts are long because I try to go into great detail into why I feel a certain way, one sentence posts are not my style and I feel discredit a persons opinions and work they may have put into a debate. I have respect for you and your opinions, do not expect the same but I appreciate that you came back and wrote your last post.
I don't like LeBron James. I can't stand him. But that doesn't mean I won't give him his due. I don't like Paul Pierce either, but I give him his due. I don't like quite a few players, but I still give them their due.
I actually posted in another thread about a couple of weeks ago that I thought LeBron *WOULD* be the MVP. I've since gone back to Rose. I've gone back and forth. Both players are worthy. There's honestly no hands down/run away favorite to win the award in my opinion.
I've given LeBron credit this season for trying to play in the post more (even though he still sucks there) and also improving his jumpshot. He's become better at catching and shooting the ball. He's making progress in playing off of the ball, but I still think he dribbles too much though and needs isolations/clearouts. I've given him credit for becoming better at the free-throw line during key moments of the game. I think the missed free-throw vs Boston was the first I've seen him miss this season in the clutch. When he closed out the Blazers earlier this year, I posted it was the best I'd seen in a LONG time.
So this idea you have that I hate LeBron so much that I'll ignore what he does is just false lol.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have my mine. That's the great thing about this site. IF everyone agreed, it wouldn't be fun.
"I don't like LeBron James. I can't stand him." - If you don't like Lebron, but can't stand him doesn't that mean you hate/strongly dislike him?
No... Saying you can't stand someone and dislike them doesn't mean you hate them. Hate is a strong word. I don't *hate* anybody.
I just don't like LeBron as a person though. I don't even like Kobe Bryant as a person. That doesn't mean I hate either one of them.
I like Lebron and D Rose....Lebron is better but D Rose is way more important to his team at this point in the season. Lebron has played WITH Bosh and Wade, and Rose has his team essencially in the same place WITHOUT Noah and Boozer.
But according to mikeyvthedon, your point (the same reason I think Rose is the MVP) is irrellivant.
Tezo, I guess the "hate" thing is a strong word. But I never said your point was irrelevant either man. You were the one that said that, if I recall "LeBron James being better than Derrick Rose is completely irrelevant". See man, what I wrote right before you was to maybe read into what I am saying, rather than just saying what I thought.
Here is my basic argument:
-I feel LeBron James is the better player of the two, and they are statistically incredibly similar, if LeBron slightly better. I also feel that LeBron is a much more complete basketball player and has played fantastic defense.
-Derrick Rose is absolutely fantastic and has been incredibly valuable to his team. He is my runner-up at this point and I do not find the fact that he plays with lesser players than Wade and Bosh irrelevant at all. What I do find, is that he is, even without having Boozer or Noah (at the same time, mind you, he has always had one or the other, though it definitely sucks that they have been hurt), on a pretty good team. You say his situation is similar to LeBron in Cleveland, which it was, though LeBron was playing with worse players, and he lead his team to back to back 60 win seasons. If Rose wins 60, he will definitely be tough to turn down as MVP. Big if though, as would be the Bulls finishing with a better record than the Heat, though I will not go off of that.
-The Bulls are a fantastic rebounding and defensive team, and I think Tom Thibodeau is seriously being slept on as far as Coach of the Year talks (or, the Kiss of Death award). These are both aspects which make teams difficult to beat, every champion relies heavily on these factors. Rose is not really a catalyst to either. He is incredibly valuable to his team on offense, but his team is winning on other factors as well.
-I did not mean to say that you were ignoring LeBron, I just wanted to state why I felt he was a very worthy candidate and maybe used what I described as your "hate on him" as a more universal symbol for things I hear from ESPN, members of this chat, other media/basketball sources etc. You seem to put biases aside and give people props, so I am sorry man.
-I am sorry for saying "hate" rather than "dislike", I did not realize you did not like the word in connection to another person and took it that strongly. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
I feel like this got way to emotionally driven, and I agree to disagree. Just wanted to clarify a few things, and I know you are never afraid to call me out on something, and you know I am always up for debate. Believe me, if you got any minuses or anything, they were not from me, and I even gave you some pluses. Regardless of that, I respect what you said, and I apologize if anything came off the wrong way. I handle things as straight up as possible, and I am passionate about my opinions, but I think I possibly crossed a line with you and I respect your opinion a great deal. You are a great poster and I appreciate what you write, whether I agree with it or not. I can admit I can be stubborn at times, but I try to back-up what I say, and that was all I was trying to do here.
How is LeBron MVP over Rose? Rose is winning but a significent margin at this point.