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Again Dwight Howard is vastly OVERATED

D Hamp
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Everyone, feel free to catch

Everyone, feel free to catch me on my new topic: Crowning the Denver Nuggets Champs!

D Hamp... The greatest basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

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Everyone, feel free to catch

Everyone, feel free to catch me on my next topic: Crowning the Denver Nuggets Champs.

D Hamp... The greatest basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

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This kid D Hamp is

This kid D Hamp is unfamiliar with the sport called basketball...

rtbt
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The argument for Dwight

ch15r36is:

Thanks for posting such a great example of logical thinking. At an extremely young age, Dwight Howard is clearly the first or second best center in the NBA . Many people think Yao is number one and I wouldn't argue against that.

I think we live in a time where people expect perfection, that's certainly true in America. Dwight Howard is an incredible talent, but he's far from perfect on the offensive end of the court. But who knows how good he will become 3-4 years from now.

As for the Celtics series, K. Perkins and G. Davis are playing like NFL Offensive Tackles. They're not playing defense against Howard, they're using NFL style blocking techniques to keep him away from the rim. Their blocking angles are so good, they would make any offensive tackle proud. However, this is basketball, not football, and the refs shouldn't allow that kind of mayhem all night long.

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i hate to agree with d hamp

i hate to agree with d hamp because i disagree with him most other times but he is mostly right. first you cant over rate his defense. nobody on the team guards anybody, so he helps his team and blocks shots. his rebounding you cant over rate either. but his offense is so limited he cant be a superstar player. i have said it a few times that howard is like a young alonzo mourning from the hornets. until he gets 25 14 and 3 blocks with half the turnovers he wont win a championship. i think he is capable though and he will always be one of my favorite players.

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and d howard is the second

and d howard is the second best center in the league behind yao but only because the center position i very weak right now. ex. i think sam dalembert was second behind howard in east all star voting.

ch15r36is
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Top 10 Career High PER's for C's - All Time

From basketball-reference.com

1. Wilt Chamberlain, 1963 - 31.84
2. David Robinson, 1994 - 30.66
3. Shaquille O'neal, 2000 - 30.65
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1972 - 29.94
5. George Mikan, 1954 - 28.54
6. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1993 - 27.31
7. Artis Gilmore, 1972 - 26.56
8. Patrick Ewing, 1990 - 25.77
9. Alonzo Mourning, 2000 - 25.75
10. Dwight Howard, 2009 - 25.38

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ch15r36is

i agree with you 100% here. "He is who we thought he was!" To call him overrated is completely stupid. We know he has no post moves. who didnt already know that? the guy makes a huge impact nonetheless. just his presence in the lane is a huge contribution that no stat can measure. should the coach instruct him to lay off the point guards and only go after the shots of big guys? perhaps, he doesnt block the shot of his man much because his man is scared to shoot. i've never seen so many big men throwing up floaters and finesse lay-ups and flip shots than when facing Howard. i've watched Dwight and Amare go head to head and i swear Amare was scared to go strong. personally i dont like Dwight Howard at all. but the guy can play and if you think he's " overrated" you might need to re-examine the term.

DHAMP...the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

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great post chr15, way to go

great post chr15, way to go strong. but someone will think of a way to argue.

michaelds911
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I love ch15 and his

I love ch15 and his efficiency stat, he thinks thats the stats to end all stats lol. And to answer your question about who I would trade "superman" for....

1) LeBron
2) D-wade
3) Kobe
4) Kevin Durant
5) Derrick Rose
6) Chris Paul
7) Deron Williams
8) Maybe Amar'e
9) Maybe Yao

And all of those guys that you have out of the playoffs are from the west except D-Wade. If Orlando was in the west, I don't see them beating anybody.

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I do not see Bill Russell in

I do not see Bill Russell in your top 10

ch15r36is
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PER

It is the stat to end all stats. I place slightly higher value on PER than the old "# of post move" stat.
They would have a parade for you in Utah or Oklahoma City and physically run you out of Orlando when you traded Dwight for Deron Williams or Kevin Durant.

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They probably would have a

They probably would have a parade because they OVERRATE him lol, and Orlando would be greatly happy because they see that he can't lead them to a ring. I actually don't care if he doesn't have any post moves, I care that he doesn't have any offensive weapons at all.

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michaelds911

your list is crazy. outside of Lebron, will any of those guys realistically lead a team to a ring in the future? Amare? i like him much more than Howard, but Dwight is clearly better. that makes me think you lack objectivity in this case. i honestly like every guy on your list more than Howard, but to trade him for anyone on that list besides Lebron would be stupid at this point. no NBA GM would make those trades.

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Amare is terrified of Howard

Amare doesn't play a lick of D and he IS scared of Howard... Go watch the All-Star game again... Not to mention the real game in season... The funny thing is I thought I was the only one who noticed this... But I guess everyone but D Hamp watch basketball...

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D Hamp

I hope you're watching the game now, because Dwight Howard is basically sticking it to your whole "he's overrated" thing. Defense wins championships, and he is the epitamy of defense. He's the player you can build a team around.

He does need to work on freethrows though.

D Hamp... the most intelligent basketball thinker in the world...Next to Mike Dunleavy anyway.

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ch15 said who would you

ch15 said who would you trade Dwight Howard for and I answered honestly, and they may or may not get a ring but they will certainly get closer than Howard ever will. He is struggling against KENDRICK PERKINS and BIG BABY DAVIS. And I don't care if Amar'e "struggled" when he played him in the regular season. He gets the job done in the playoffs. Do you think Dwight could have dominated Timmy D like Amar'e did, and if i'm not mistaken that was only his 5th year. So I really don't want to hear that "he is only 24" excuse anymore. He might as well become a defensive player who needs another star to get him over the hump, because he is never going to do it being the main man.

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As much as you don't know

As much as you don't know about basketball D HAMP, I agree with you 100% on this one

D Hamp......The guy who doesn't have any basketball knowledge other than Dwight Howard being overrated

billyk
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Dwight Howard: 21ppg 14reb.

Dwight Howard: 21ppg 14reb. 3blks 57% fg percentage... How many centers in the league in the last 10 years produced that kind of stat line in a season except for Shaq, if he keeps this up he will be an overrated hall of famer.....

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The center...

The center is gone, we can collectively name two who are worth anything. Dwight is a guy who dominates due to no one else to play him. He's a freak, I'll give him that, but thats where it stops. No offensive moves what so ever!

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I don't care about the

I don't care about the regular season billy. It's about what you do in the postseason, and he just doesn't get the job done because teams don't let him get those okie doke dunks and alley-oops and put-backs.

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Some things that should

Some things that should mentioned about Dwights rebounding. this is his dominant stat and is the reason why he gets dpoy and all-nba. there are seveal reasons why this stat is inflated. dwight plays with 4 guards so he will get alot more rebounds. its easy to see how this inflates his stats, and by simple logic it must happen. As a team the magic finished in 8th place in rebouding difference, good but not great. Shouldn't the greatest rebounder in the league make his team dominate rebounding? you can blame these team rebounding differences on the team, but usually the best rebounder in the leagues team will also be a tremondous rebounding team. (ewing, wallace, olujuwon, and all dominate Cs had teams that dominated the boards.) the team argument holds somewhat, but it atleast points that a little bit to dwights overrated rebounding. take tonight for example where dwight had 22 boards. yet his team lost rebounding by a pretty big -6 margin.

there are no stats that measure post D accurately, blocks are worthless and this is one of dwights highest (especially because dwight always slaps the ball out of bounds, but regardless blocks mean nothing), but by watching the game howard certaintly doesn't dominate the game on D. he often seems to be ben out of position and people still score in the post on gim. he is good but it wasnt like watching a duncan or kg or wallace. it was like they were scoring on D

he is good. athletic as hell. i think people dont understand what overatted means. it doesn't mean you aren't good it means people think you are better than you are. is howard really a top 5 player, all-nba voted. i cant see how.

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Thank you zruc for joining

Thank you zruc for joining the club lol.

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michaelds911

you dont think Dwight Howard could dominate in the playoffs with Steve Nash as his point guard in that fast break offense being the fastest big man in the league? i dont know if you noticed michaelds911, but Rafer Alston is no Steve Nash. now you fellas are trying to explain away his rebounds and his blocks? zruc is trying his hardest to find flaws. he's obviously biased. Dwight Howard changes more shots than Duncan, KG, or Wallace ever have. opponents are scared against him. he might not be as good on the ball, but does he really need to be given the quality of NBA bigs nowadays? its more important for him to be altering the shots of the leagues top scorers. the coaches, writers and players in the NBA dont consider him overrated. So why should we? everyone knows what he is. a great rebounder, shot blocker, and athlete who has no post moves and sucks at the free throw line.

DHAMP...the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

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I don't think you noticed

I don't think you noticed this...Amar'e was beating Timmy straight up 1 on 1, man to man. That has nothing to do with Steve Nash and fast breaks. I just find it kind of disturbing that a guy who has been in the league for 5 years has yet to have anything to show for on offense. And I am not taking anything away from him on defense, I think he is superb. I just twitch when people say he is top 5 talent in the NBA, because he is clearly not, and that is why he is overrated in my opinion.

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Amare has to get the ball to

Amare has to get the ball to beat anyone 1 on 1. Nash always gets the ball to guys in a position to succeed. Unless Amare was bringing the ball up the court Nash has a lot to do with it. Dwight averages 20 something. That's something. Does he have to get it with fade aways and Dream shakes to impress you? How is he not a top 5 talent? He's as gifted an athete as the NBA has. What is your definition of talent? Having a jumper and some spin moves?

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michaelds911

i mean, i love Amare, but a hard core NBA fan like yourself surely realizes that D'Antoni's offense tends to make guys look a little better than they really are. Case in point David Lee. Imagine what Dwight could do in D'Antoni's offense with Nash getting him the ball...

DHAMP...the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

michaelds911
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Their were countless time

Their were countless time where he got the ball on the elbow and just went to work. I really don't care about athleticism, because I never seen athleticism win a championship. And if KG was playing he would probably be averaging 12 pts and 10 boards. That 20/20 junk just wouldn't be happening. Hell, if he was playing against Bynum he wouldn't be putting up those numbers. Anytime he plays against anybody decent in the paint, he gets outplayed. And that is not the mark of a top 5 player.

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His offense does make people

His offense does make people look better but Amar'e would put up those numbers with any coach or PG because he is not dependent upon them.

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michaelds911

not sure what you mean by athleticism doesnt win championships? the way i see it, athleticism wins every championship in every major sport. i'm not gonna bother looking it up, but i doubt you're right about him being consistently outplayed. i guess i'll have to take your word on that one. that said, Perkins is very good defensivey. and you'r crazy if you think Amare would put up those same numbers without Nash. pick and roll all day with the NBA's best passer and you'd put up numbers too.

DHAMP....the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

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Dwight Howard in the

Dwight Howard in the postseason: 20ppg 16rebs and 2.5blks 54% fg percentage..... I think Howard is similar to Moses Malone the only problem with Howard is that he doesnt always play hard. Howard is what he is a defensive anchor and dominant rebounder. Orlando was one of the better defensive teams because of the shotblocking and intimidation of Howard. They have some terrible defenders (Hedo, Lewis, Reddick, Alston) and Howard is always cleaning up for them...

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why is it biased to try to

why is it biased to try to point out the flaws in a players game. I just pointed out that his rebound numbers are inflated, which is difficult to argue with. Concerning post defense, as I said earlier, it is too difficult to analyze. i think Duncan, kg, and wallace, are better positioned and think they alter shots more than howard. (in their primes of course) you basically said the opposite. neither of us have any real hard evidence as there are no stats.

Dwight scored 23 points and everyone acts like that really something spectacular. Lebron does that in a quarter. his team badly loses the rebounding differential yet dwight dominated the glass

for the record id rather have dwight than amare. but neither of them are top 5 guys. if ur looking to win 4 games to continue your season, i just cant imagine myself choosing dwight over 5 other guys. the guy can never score 30. An offensive explosion for him is 23 points.

and please don't point to these playoffs as the success of the magic. The struggled against philly team that cant shoot and really just isnt that good. there in a battle with a team who doesnt have their best player, whos tired, and old. i think this team would be beat by teams like dallas utah and even phoenix

michaelds911
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I'm talking athleticism by

I'm talking athleticism by itself. You have to have skills to be a true top player, and he just doesn't have many. There's a reason why he never gets the ball in close games, it's not a coincidence. He just doesn't get the job done, point blank. And I honestly don't think it's going to get any better, he has been playing 5 years with PATRICK EWING aiding him plus he has "amazing" ATHLETICISM, and the only thing he is doing is the same stuff he was doing 3-4 years ago is kind of sad. I really really like him, but please don't mention him in the top 5.

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Funny

You guys are funny. These are some of the worst arguments I have ever heard.

The case has been made over and over again. Either the stats and everyone else in the world is wrong or some guy named michaelds911 is wrong.

"dwight plays with 4 guards so he will get alot more rebounds"
"Shouldn't the greatest rebounder in the league make his team dominate rebounding?"
How would he dominate rebounding while playing with 4 guards...should he be able to make his teammates better rebounders?
He's a top-5 NBA talent and will probably be for the next 10 years. Get used to it...it will make things easier on you.

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Last night's game was PROOF

Anyone who watched game 6 last night in Orlando had all of the proof they needed. I said this earlier, every coach in the league, bar none, would take Dwight Howard as their center. Oooooooops, maybe Houston would have to think twice about that, but every other team would kill to have Dwight Howard.

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They would kill to have them

They would kill to have them as their center, I would kill to have him as my center, but they and I would definitely think twice or three times before making him the focal point of their team. And none of those were my arguments ch15. Everything I said sounded pretty logical to me. You didn't say anything special, but throw your "PER" stat out there lol. PER doesn't take into the fact that he crumbles during crunch time, when his team needs him the most.

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michaelds911

PER takes into account how he performs over the entire course of an entire season (including "crunch time" and all other times.) This statistic bears out that he is extremely valuable for an entire 82-game season, and he has been just as valuable over during this year's playoffs. Being voted first-team All-NBA, and top-5 in MVP voting 2 years in a row would also seem to me to indicate his value as a top-5 NBA player.
No one in the world that knows anything about how the NBA works would think more than once about making a guy like Dwight Howard the focal point of their franchise. You have to give him special attention on both ends of the floor the entire time he is on the floor, with or without the ball in his hands. You can't tell me that he "crumbles during crunch time." That is nothing more than a unfounded opinion that means absolutely nothing. His team won 59 games this year, and he has dropped a double-double in every single game of a series against the defending champs.

"Everything I said sounded pretty logical to me." That doesn't mean it is logical, my friend.
You just continue to destroy any semblance of credibility you ever had. Trade him for CP, D-Will or Kevin Durant and your team would be sitting at home right now.
If you don't like him, that's fine, let it be, but quit bringing these weak nonsensical arguments.

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chris you needs to take

chris you needs to take these stats together, not separately, those two things show dwight stats are inflated. you have two things to explain the rebounding differential. if you blame his teammates for the average rebounding differential, like what you said, then dwight gets more rebound since none of than can rebound. or you simply blame dwight, and then it is obvious. not to say he isn't a great rebounder. i would call him a top 5 rebounder without a doubt. i would also say his rebounding number is more inflated than any other player in the league (who beneifts more from a team with 4 guards)

and i don't know why you keep saying because dwight's got alot of awards hes really good. this is just what were arguing against. if the magic played the nuggets or lakers theyd be home also so you can't say thats why D12 is better than cp3.

i think dwight is a top 5 player for a season. hes durable, his D is consistent, and teams are playing a little more lax, and allow dwight to get his 20. but in a race up to 4 games i'd much rather have a bunch of others guys who can score in close games and take over offensively.

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no one seems to care that

no one seems to care that the Magic are missing their all-star point guard. are you so sure Orlando would be struggling at all with Jameer Nelson on the court? Are you sure Denver would beat Orlando with a healthy Nelson? Would Howard's offensive numbers not be better. and the inflated rebounding numbers argument is just unfair. there are way too many factors for you to say that. especially to say that they are more inflated than any player in the league unless you have watched every team in the league rebound. some teams send more guys to the glass because they must. others get out on the break because they have a dominant rebounder. there's just a lot to consider.

DHAMP...the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

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How does PER rate 4th

How does PER rate 4th quarter play, is there some 4th quarter sub-category that i'm not seeing. And if you were the coach, would you feel confident throwing Dwight the ball down low in close games? If it wasn't for Turkoglu hitting big shots, Dwight would be sitting right there with D-Will and CP3 who play in a much tougher conference. And of course he is going to be 1st team ALL-NBA, he and Yao are the only centers worth anything, but Yao has been hurt the past two seasons.

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And I would like to know why

And I would like to know why you would take "Superman" over CP3 or D-Will?

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Just based on the following,

Just based on the following, I would say he is a top-5 player in the league right now.
- Stats
- Individual awards
- Team success
- Overall potential

That's my whole argument. If you're not buying it now...you probably never will. Next topic.

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- He does have good stats,

- He does have good stats, i'll give him that, but stats don't tell the whole story.

- He gets his individual awards by default, there is nobody else to give them to

-His team is only successful during the regular season

- I could care less about his potential because he has yet to tap into it, and I don't see him doing so anytime soon.

I love messing with you man, it's pretty fun...

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Get Dwight Howard out of

Get Dwight Howard out of here. He almost single-handedly lost the game for Orlando last night. He missed most of his shots in the clutch! Didn't he go 4-12 from the line, missing critical free throws. Key word FREE...... All the more reason to transform Howard into Emaka Okafor. HA HA HA. It reminds me of AK47 Kirelenko making the all star team a few years ago when Utah was decimated with injuries. He got accustomed to shooting the ball and he shouldn't have. Well, we have the same situation with Howard. Just play defense and dunk ally-opps, like Tyson Chandler, Stick to playing defense and allow the team to go find an offensive player. It's been five years and no moves. UM, OK. Time to find someone else who can make shots.

D Hamp... The greatest basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

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DHamp you are mentioning

DHamp you are mentioning Howard with Okafor, AK47, and Chandler I dont get it thats nonsense... D. Howard aka Mr Clean dunks (shoots a high percentage) and protects the rim, thats what he does and he does it very good... To people who wants Howard to develop post moves WHO CARES he gets the JOB DONE... Is it his fault that he plays with players who arent concern with rebounding, what should he do dont rebound the ball. Put Howard on any team that didnt make the playoffs and they are a playoff team he is a FRANCHISE player, how many FRANCHISE centers are running around. Its crazy how people are saying he doesnt do anything,Howard will put up 20+ and 10+ rebs. for the next decade and he will be a hall of fame player....

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Your poorly-worded,

Your poorly-worded, nonsensical, illogical arguments always entertain me as well, Mr. michaelds911. You too, D-Hamp!

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Franchise player? That's a

Franchise player? That's a joke. Seriously! Howard should stick to defense. Eventhough, I haven't observed him playing much defense. The fact that Orlando and Boston is going seven games is a joke. Get Howard out of here. He can't even get past Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis. Thank goodness Orlando doesn't have to play the Nuggets. Ha ha ha.

Howard is overated as I've said all along. And he plays defense? Where? I haven't seen it when it counts.

D Hamp... The greatest basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

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DHAMP

how can the entire basketball world; writers, players, fans, etc. think Dwight Howard is a great defensive player, yet you think he doesnt play defense at all? thats when you have to take a step back and say "maybe i'm wrong on this one". you're entitled to your opinion but when NBA experts think one thing and you think another, chances are you may be mistaken. anyway, in my opinion striking fear into every player that comes into the paint constitutes defense, just as much as sliding your feet and staying in front of your man. it's probably even more important since you're in many ways guarding all 5 guys. how is protecting the rim not defense? making the opposition throw up circus shots to avoid getting the shot blocked is defense as well. and Kendrick Perkins is the best post defender left in the playoffs so getting past him isnt exactly a cake walk. where is this knowledge that you speak of? the more you post, the less knowledgable you seem. and overrate has 2 r's. michaelds911, stop agreeing with this guy. even if you agree with him, dont admit it. he makes you look bad.

DHAMP...the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

michaelds911
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Im not agreeing with D Hamp

Im not agreeing with D Hamp totally. I never said his defense is overrated, he is probably one of the best defenders. I am simply stating that his overall game is overrated. Im just wondering how being a good defenive player makes you a top 5 player in the league. When you are top 5, you should have very few or no flaws at all in your game, and Dwight Howard has too many to be an elite player in my opinion.

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and I like how ch15 tries to

and I like how ch15 tries to insult people to try to make his points sound better. How is my statements poorly-worded and nonsensical? Everything I said was the truth. I didn't say anything outrageous did I?

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